Hi.
Anyone can advise and recommend mircoless camera?
Microless Camera nice to use?
Any different Microless and DSLR?

Thanks.

did you meant to write MIRRORLESS instead of MICRO-LESS?

hahahaha

u meant mirrorless.

difference with DSLR? it's MIRRORLESS. that's why they're more compact, unlike DSLRs which has to be huge to have a mirror inside it (the 'R' in DSLR stands for reflex).

quality wise, both can give out very very good photos. no need to know the technical stuff too much...a good photographer with a cheap mirrorless camera can take much better photos compared to a bad photographer with the high end DSLR.

i'd recommend a mirrorless system for u. very convenient.

+++

I also recommend mirrorless. Quality wise just got a bit difference.

More so if you want the lite weight and be stealth.

I choose it because of weight and size limitation when I travel. If you wait a bit longer hopefully by end of this year, they are releasing a full sensor version so that will be the full head on challenge against DSLR top of range boys - which they are holding fort.

Of cos the big boys will always shunt you ... mine bigger and heavier so must APPEAR better and PRO .. like the old days when the use to joke over Olympus OM1. Until they start lugging them around for hours climbing up Mt Kinablau !!

Sony A99 is a mirrorless. It's definitely not compact.

Typically Mirrorless refers to any camera that does not have reflex mirrors.

Eh is it? I thought there's still a mirror inside? And the technology is called "semi translucent mirror", just that it doesn't have a normal optical viewfinder.

Well, I've always considered them as Mirrorless as the said mirror refers to that flapping thingamajig (reflex mirror) on DSLR.

Sure, those Sony ones are using semi-transparent fixed mirror but that's not the same as the reflex mirror.

One source that sees it the way I see is Mr Rockwell - http://www.kenrockwell.com/sony/a99.htm

Nevertheless the general public still view the DSLT as an SLR. And even other sites don't call them mirrorless. LOL.

hmm... but for most people, the mirrorless terms stand for those m4/3 or NEX kind of camera.

In my opinion, those DSLT still aren't mirrorless, but they are someway between mirrorless and DSLR, that's what makes them unique.

And as most mirrorless, the light just went through the lens hitting the sensor straightaway (not only when pressing the shutter) , when you detach the lens, the sensor is exposed. but the sony isn't the same.

yeah that's the common reference.

to what I remember, Mirrorless was introduced before SLT (can someone verify this?)

it was called mirrorless because it doesn't have a reflex mirror.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirrorless_in...ble-lens_camera



Well, no matter how Sony pushes the DSLT - people still see it as DSLR. haha.

well explained. I personally sell Sony camera. Its always been my pleasure to make DSLR fag butthurts when comparing mirroless and DSLR...

Wait you see Sony make a Full frame NEX.. all DSLR user will spend more on vaseline than their SLR lenses.

well... i don't deny that mirrorless offers great image quality in a small package, but there are still advantages of DSLR. Don't tell me you gonna shoot sports with a mirrorless

yeah those DSLTs kinda spoil the definition of the word mirrorless... so whats a good term to describe those m4/3 and NEX cameras? haha

n yeah ill keep on calling DSLTs as DSLRs instead of mirrorless, i dont care!

DSLT spoil everything la. haha. Look also like DSLR but say it's not, then have to spend time to explain the technology. hehe.

you never know where technology can take you to in future... we shall see then...

ok ok now back to the question

MIRRORLESS

which to recommend? depends on your budget and what you want to shoot.

the options are many.

is mirrorless nice to use? yes, they are nice to use.

Mirrorless is of course, different from DSLR yet all of them works to capture images.

I like mirrorless for two main reasons.

1. Very compact. ie I can stick my camera with a 55-210 lens into my trouser pocket quite easily.
2. The ease to adapt/use most manual lens out there and that include some very exotic lens from large format camera ( but it make the len/camera setup too huge to fit into my pocket!).

Xiaotim .. agree with your statement. yes i am a NEX user, I deliberately kept the brand out of discussion. Yes, there will be sour garpes screaming blood after that! and many will choose to live in denial even today over the APSC sensor issue instead of being objective. I guess that is why marketing people love these people - BRAND LOYALTY.

I did a quick survey on my uninformed camera friends over these issues and what all of them agree is, ah , will you trust a pro shooting your wedding photo with this dinky camera of yours? MUST be seen with the N or C camera with those BIG lens! then you look like a pro.. (i think some mainland chinese call it BIG GUN?) These are typical uninformed consumer. I sometimes wonder how these people will react if one were to use a digital medium format or Leica for their photo shoot?

Full frame sensors are overrated.

Many of them mind so set on Full Frame sensor, going anything like mirrorless using 43 or APS-C sensor to them is a big no no.

The mirrorless interchangeable-lens camera (MILC) is a class of digital system cameras. This type of cameras provide interchangeable lens mount. You can choose Sony Alpha NEX-6 or Canon EOS-M Mirrorless Digital Camera.

So much for mirrorless supporters bashing DSLR.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/08/27/so...a-for-400#press

Let's not forget that Olympus' OM-D also have an SLR feel to it.

What's with this hatred from mirrorless user towards DSLR anyway? No matter how, DSLR still reigns in many aspects.

The way an SLR is designed, it's really the best in overall ergonomics and stability, especially with the grip and their size and weight.

yeah, mirrorless just cant beat dslr in terms of button placement and controls. but that kind of size and weight is a pain when you wanna travel with it

ehh SLR also there are small ones. entry level ones are pretty light, the EOS 100D is even smaller.

I know the 100D is quite small, but most mirrorless are pocketable when paired with their pancakes.

My nex 3 with fd 1.4 ssc looks so retro n more pro than those modern dslr

Mirrorless with long lens or normal lens with converter is no longer pocketable.

a99 isn't a mirrorless, it has a translucent mirror which although reflects much lesser, but still works as a mirror for the AF mechanism to work.

Canon EOS M is quite a story. Introduced as canon's 1st mirrorless interchangeable lens. Priced higher than the DSLR CANON EOS 650D. With crappy AF and super high price it was bound to fail. And it did!

Now they updated its firmware and price. Its like EOS M just got introduced to the market again. No really. I got mine and it seems everyone had no idea this Canon model even existed until they saw me using it. I would have never gotten the EOS M until the the price got revised. EOS M is cheaper than the 100D and the older 600D.

Anyways there's also a rumor that canon are going to bring in new EF-M (Mirrorless) models and lenses. So Canon has not abandoned EF-M and even planned in continuing developing it. I suspect its true since I see EF-M has a new UWA lens with IS in shops already.

But I feel if Canon develops their next Speedlite 270EXii flash replacement to have AF assist beam and smaller. It can make the EOS M the leader in being mirrorless camera with a powerful effective flash. I could be wrong, but then I haven't seen a proper compact flash made for any mirrorless system. I mean its not like you want to put a flash twice the size of the camera on this kind of system right?

yes, I am aware of those and that the general population also think it's not a mirrorless.

you may refer to 1st page on the discussion on why I said it as such.

With NEX-7 coupling with LA-EA2 plus 300mm f2.8 G, the full time phrase detection surely makes it possible to shoot sport.

not true.. i can happily put my NEX5N + SEL55210 into my cycle touring trouncer pocket...

This post has been edited by ChinWY: Aug 31 2013, 01:09 PM

if that is the case, i might as well get a dslr

any suggestion on mirrorless system for budget within 1.5k - 2k?

Pick a brand/system. All seems to have their advantages and disadvantages.

Olympus E-Pm2 - Olympus has the fastest AF and produces awesome IQ. Probably a really good choice for travel and street photography. Althought it can take nice HD vid the downside is video functions and no 24p are lacking to do serious video. Biggest advantage is that it has one of the smallest mounts so it can with an adapter (it will be manual focus only) fit a huge range of lenses especially old legacy lenses or even cctv lenses.

Sony Nex N3 or F3 - Sony seems all well rounded. Always seen to produce great IQ. Very capable for both photos and video.

Canon EOS M - It takes great EOS quality photos. AF is a bit too slow for quick candid shots. Canon DSLR cameras are known for being great HDSLR video cameras and EOS M has little compromise in its Video capabilities.

The latest and other better offerings from mirrorless cameras are over 2K. Keep in mind that they are not cheaper than DSLRs.

Thanks for the info sir....
Gonna get da best body first...
As i thought of getting old fd lenses....
Since there's so many adapter being sold,
So i dont have to worry..
Da first things dat i need to do now,
Sourcing for da most best and affordable body first...

Opps!! Sorry!! I'm type wrong tim!! heheeh=) paiseh!!!

Mirrorless!!! Sony NEX 5T is it nice? Thanks!!!

"Nice" is very subjective

Some find it nice, some dont.

It has WiFi, NFC so that u can take selfie with 180deg tilt screen and post on social media using ur phone/tablet with NFC support

It has interchangable lenses from prime to zoom lenses and also adapters for A-mount lenses (maybe u dun even need to change lenses)

5T has LCD touch panel like smartphone screen to select functions.

Go try one. Then decide

Goldfries, mirrorless term has been a highlight debate for a long time. To put it simple, mirrorBOX will be used as a determinator. Without a mirrorbox is consider as mirrorless. With a mirrorbox is consider non-mirrorless.

But with that information, compact camera, mobile phone camera, etc lacks of mirror, are they mirrorless? Technically, YES, but modern marketing considered only 'interchangeable lens unit' are mirrorless camera.

Sony SLT is not mirrorless. There is a mirror that reflect information into AF sensor module. Hence it's not mirrorless what-so-ever another online reviewer Opinion is. That's just an Opinion, not a statement of it's or not a mirrorless. And yes, u can have your opinion even others sees otherwise.

Although both system (dslr/mirrorless) can produce almost same good IQ but its depend on the photographer also...which application of usage the want to apply...some people comfortable a lot of button camera but some prefer less button but customable...

For example nex 3 can shot better picture than other entry level dslr using kit lens even its just mirrorless...what is important the user how to use and play with it...

yeah

Just like buying an axe or a chainsaw

Some just need to chop a small tree but bought a chainsaw. Meanwhile, a skilled tree-cutter can chop down a tree using an axe faster than the novice who still struggle to start the chainsaw

And some gave up the chainsaw due to the weight & bulky size

Just an analogy

I own epl3 and bought it with 2 kit lens.. given me the choice again i'll get a cheaper body and first go for the pancake lens... it will be a damn good companion for travelling.. like what mentioned by the other forumers it's better to master the techniques and play with the function which epl3 has them already..

epl3 selling rm899 only get the Panasonic pancake lens in lazada.. selling for rm1.3k.. they will be a good combo.

yes sir..
still deciding on which models should i go through,
used the highend dslr rig before and gonna start back from scratch...
any other recommendation for those compact detachable lens camera?

hurmm if you use highend dslr before you should actually know the lens are the important factor of the camera.. at this moment still sticking to Olympus and Pana they both have more lenses lying around for you to choose.. and NEX and also NX are getting quite good amount of reviews as well I have not heard of any clear winner so far yet.

yeah,
knew about the lens factor there,
old fd lenses were great too...
i don't mind to manually focus the lens there but i would like your suggestion on which compact body were the reliable in terms of image quality as well as the video output..
yeah, that's the factors needed before im buying those compact cam sir...
help me to help you, haha... thank sir

if u plan to play with fd lens then i think better u go for nex because of the peaking mode features...easy for you to manually focus with...some more u also can play reverse lens as well for macro...
if the lens variant is an issue for nex, there has alpha nex adaptor so u can use all the A series lens...
but for my opinions the nex line up lens is enough alrady to play with if u on compact and casual segment...
if you have a budget then go for nex6...the result will satisfy u...or if you have lower budget then nex 5n is good enough already...

At this moment, most mirrorless camera are still in their infant stage. It is especially hard to decide what btand/model to choose.

nex-5T or olympus E-PL5?

I am happy with the x1.5 crop in the NEX. Also the flange to Sensor distance is fair game for a lot of good lens esp the Zeiss G mount.. (of which all of them are classics at half the price of the M mount version) the 4/3 , x 2 crop is a bit too much if you want to use those legacy lens.. getting good wide lens will be very expensive too. but if your choice of lens is on the longer side, you are on the winning side.. That will also apply for Macro as it will give you a bit more subject to lens distance.

what about samsung nx300?

sorry ... I do not have that camera to make any statement.. also not a product I am looking at. I am happy with the 18 mm flange distance where I can adapt most rangefinder (and also very expensive ones) onto the NEX with ease.

I cannot say that will be an attribute of the NX300. Look into eBay and see if they have a wide range of adapters for it.. else best to avoid unless you are good mechanically and have access to a good tooling shop to fix your woes. AFAIK beside NEX, 4/3 comes next where wide range of adapters to other lens are available.. but I can be wrong because I do not go hunting down that alley..

Also with Sony now offering FF options, any FF legacy lens can be migrated when you upgrade. Another plus. As an advice once given to me.. Provided MFocus is your game... it is best to purchase MF lens than propriety expensive AF lens. Technology will change with time and it will be a real pain trying to adapt AF lens between different camera mounts. It will also be expensive.

That leave me having to shoot my own leg as I am eyeing the SEL1018 after recently acquiring a Contex/Zeiss Biogon 28mm G mount .

I believe the main reason for giving up DSLR is the size factor. You might loss some great aspect of DSLR such as focus tracking, depth of field and so on but you will soon really that you might have had more shooting time with such a small and pocket-able photo machine. Go get one, you wont regret it.