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PC Audio Creative GigaWorks S750 7.1 speaker repair, A short guide and info with pictures...

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rsseco
post Aug 24 2016, 09:46 PM

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QUOTE(asenrzhang @ Aug 24 2016, 12:39 PM)
I guess it could be/mean 'K'  instead of 'V', maybe low half of 'K' is not visible or does not exists.
I noticed you're using Rubycon MXR series. I checked the datasheet, found that it's height is 50mm, it's too high, that could make the top of capacitors too close to the heat sink. Or worse, it could touch the heat sink.
[attachmentid=7383170]

lex's second fix had shown this mistake
user posted image

Also, I found something strange about the plastic wrapper of these capacitors


  • The top hole size of plastic wrapper are not equal

  • The vertical white line of negative sign is skewed to left a little bit. Maybe it's just the angle when you took the photo caused this, but I'm not sure.


Maybe it's not a big deal, but I worried about their genuine.
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Mine are not so high, they measure 22x40mm ; here was the link where I bought it : https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shippin...08.0.124.KGRgpw
After, I don't know if they are "real" or not ! Could it be an old series ? Or as you expected, they could be contrefacted ?!?

This post has been edited by rsseco: Aug 24 2016, 10:08 PM
rsseco
post Aug 24 2016, 10:21 PM

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QUOTE(asenrzhang @ Aug 24 2016, 02:09 PM)
About results of D10 D14 and other diodes, I think you made a mistake about the '-' electrode and '+' electrode of diodes, the side with a mark is '-' electrode.
My terms are wrong ? Sorry.
But my thoughts are true to say marked side is - pole ? So, normally I always put the Black - pad on this side to have the normal behaviour of the diode, or am I completly wrong ?
Are some of my measurments totally wrong then ?

What should I do next ? Could be I must buy some other capacitors if they are "false" ones ?

EDIT :The fault can be mine too, as I want to buy as cheap as I can... I do it this way, as I doesn't want to spend too much in case my repair will not work.
I know it's a risk by having some bad quality product, and it's a dilemma : Low price = bad quality = perhaps repair will not work because of that ; instead of more expensive = best quality = can work better !
If I was sure to be able to repair it by myself, I would buy things of higher quality, of course ! rolleyes.gif
Because usually, I always buy the best things...

This post has been edited by rsseco: Aug 24 2016, 11:04 PM
rsseco
post Aug 25 2016, 01:09 AM

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QUOTE(asenrzhang @ Aug 24 2016, 04:48 PM)
If you still have enough IRF740 and fuses, maybe you can try the above steps one by one, and after each step is done, power on for testing. If Q3 & Q4 burn again, recheck what special you've done.
OK, I will check this with only Q3 and Q4 soldered. Do I need to try with only one first or can I put the twice together ?

QUOTE(asenrzhang @ Aug 24 2016, 04:48 PM)
If nothing special, then could be other components failed caused Q3 & Q4 burned.
And how will we find what ?

QUOTE(asenrzhang @ Aug 24 2016, 04:48 PM)
Do you remember the lowest reading value and highest reading value of those changing values?
No, values fluctuated to fast ! I can try the "A-Hold" mode of the multimeter

QUOTE(asenrzhang @ Aug 24 2016, 04:48 PM)
I think you need to measure Vgs and Vds of Q3 & Q4: Black probe of multimeter always on Source, Red probe on Gate to measure Vgs, then Drain to measure Vds.
This is not what I already done yet ? Or you mean with some IRF740 in place ? Or in the order you wrote it : first V(G-S) and then V(D-S) ?

QUOTE(asenrzhang @ Aug 24 2016, 04:48 PM)
One thing strange is you got a negative reading in the changing values. To my understanding, that can't be right.
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I don't know what to say, the "-" sign appears sometimes...

rsseco
post Aug 25 2016, 02:08 AM

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QUOTE(asenrzhang @ Aug 24 2016, 06:10 PM)
Rubycon website said MXG series is substitution of MXR series, and size of 470μF 250V in new MXG series is 22x40mm, not MXR series. So, it could be faked.
OK. And so could be my IRF740 too... and perhaps what I doubt before, could be faulty or fragile too (that's why they broke as easily ?!? ; and could confirm my guess about why 2 IRF740 broke as before, only one was really out of order).
But, my fluctuate values without any IRF740 in place could reveal any other problem anyway ?


rsseco
post Aug 25 2016, 02:41 PM

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QUOTE(asenrzhang @ Aug 24 2016, 08:44 PM)
1. solder new IRF740 on Q4, test only Q4 first, because it survived in the first time
In fact, I don't know which was OK at the first time, as I remove twice at a time to check them. I only know one was defective and the other no
To remember :
QUOTE(rsseco @ Jul 24 2016, 12:59 PM)
Hi  ! 
Some news after testing the things.
R2 seems to be OK after Q3 and Q4 were removed.
And yes, one of both is NOK, S-D and D-S are conductive, the other one is good (conductive in one way only)
Unfortunately, I can't say which one was defective, as I removed twice before testing each.
QUOTE(asenrzhang @ Jul 24 2016, 06:22 PM)
Well, it's doesn't matter now, just throw the failed one away biggrin.gif
QUOTE(asenrzhang @ Aug 24 2016, 08:44 PM)
I thought you mean S(red) to D(black) voltage and S(red) to G(black). I always write red probe side first, then black probe side, so for Vgs I will write as "Q3(G) - Q3(S)" instead of "Q3(S) - Q3(G)", so when I saw "Q3(S) - Q3(G)", I thought you put RED probe on S, BLACK probe on G. I misunderstand what you wrote?
Yes and no ! In fact, I've done it by putting the black pad as you wrote me before.
You can see it on this picture (S is written in black, D and G in red) ; I've tested it this way.
user posted image
Okay, G seems to be written in black... but in fact, it's red !

QUOTE(asenrzhang @ Aug 24 2016, 08:44 PM)
Could be capacitor's fault which doesn't shape the waveform well.
I have an additionnal cap leaving (as I bought 5) ; should I try to replace C59 in order to see if I have stable value ?

rsseco
post Aug 28 2016, 08:17 PM

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Hi !
Sorry for the delay, but with these hot summer days, not very easy to do some checks !
By the way, here are the new checks of today !
I re-check Q3 and Q4 completly again.
Q3 S->D : 152V, no more fluctuating !
Q3 S->G : 283V

Q4 S->D : 148V
Q4 S->G : 280V

C59 : 157V but decreasing slowly

I wanted to re-check Q2 and Q1, but on Q2 I ripped the red probe between G and D and what should happen, happened ! Shortcut, electric arc and Q2 explodes !

For the other 2, I already threw them away...

But I don't understand why this time I haven't no more fluctuating values !? ! So next step is to replace Q2, then Q3 ?
rsseco
post Aug 28 2016, 08:18 PM

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Hi !
Sorry for the delay, but with these hot summer days, not very easy to do some checks !
By the way, here are the new checks of today !
I re-check Q3 and Q4 completly again.
Q3 S->D : 152V, no more fluctuating !
Q3 S->G : 283V

Q4 S->D : 148V
Q4 S->G : 280V

C59 : 157V but decreasing slowly

I wanted to re-check Q2 and Q1, but on Q2 I ripped the red probe between G and D and what should happen, happened ! Shortcut, electric arc and Q2 explodes !

For the other 2, I already threw them away...

But I don't understand why this time I haven't no more fluctuating values !? ! So next step is to replace Q2, then Q3 ?
rsseco
post Aug 29 2016, 04:46 AM

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You are maybe right, it was perhaps not 280V but mV. I probably have not read well !

Edit : but, if it's mV, you have said it's too low too, so where is the matter now ?

This post has been edited by rsseco: Aug 30 2016, 03:49 AM
rsseco
post Sep 4 2016, 12:43 AM

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QUOTE(asenrzhang @ Aug 30 2016, 04:35 AM)
excl.gif Disclaimer: I'm not a professional electronic engineer, not even an amateur, so, take the advice at your own risk.
My guess is

  • D23 and/or D24 may failed.
    [attachmentid=7423052]
  • Q6 may failed, can't provide enough voltage.
(My guess could be totally wrong!!!)
You can use your first multimeter to test them after unsolder them.

For D23 & D24, if your battery in your first multimeter is 9V, they should not be conductive in one direction.
You may check D22 & D25 too, just in case.

For Q6, I never test a transistor, but you can try switch multimeter to 'hFE' position, then plug the unsoldered transistor to PNP (Q6 is a PNP transistor) to test it ( just make sure each leg is in right position )
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Hi, here I am again !

So, here's the results of tests you asking me to do :

user posted image

In conclusion, for diodes, all seems to be fine/OK.

For Q6, I first done the test with the multimeter, as shown on the next picture :
user posted image
The value gaves me 199 to 197. I don't know what it means. If I place the PNP in other way (E on C and C on E, it gaves me 0)
Then I measure it with the diode function, and the result is shown in the first picture.


Question : if these values are correct, should I not rebuy some "real" capacitors ? It could be simply - are they seem to be fake ones - that they are the main problem ?

rsseco
post Sep 5 2016, 12:22 AM

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QUOTE(asenrzhang @ Sep 4 2016, 09:18 AM)

  Vgs of Q3 & Q4 is either too low (0.285mV, not enough to open the gate) or tooooooooooo high (280V, it's just too high).
For the 280V, as said before, I think I've just read it bad (must be mV as the first check)

OK, what should buy finally ? And where ?

rsseco
post Sep 5 2016, 07:55 PM

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QUOTE(asenrzhang @ Sep 4 2016, 07:36 PM)
As OP(@lex) and others bought:
Replace all electrolytic capacitors on PSU board, and other failed components.

Several users in this thread had already made a buy-list, you may have a look and make some changes if components are out of market.

For other failed components, you may check others posts (one by one) in this thread to see which components they had replaced, and check yours to see if you need to replace them (or wait for a professional engineer to diagnose which components caused your IRF740 been burned).
You can buy fromThose are suggested suppliers by OP and others.

The price of components on their websites are expensive, but they guarantee components are genuine.
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We come again to my dilema : as I'm not sure it will work after all the replacements, I'd not like to spend a lot of money.
On one hand, I'd like to repair it, but on the other hand, I'm not ready to replace every component if it's not necessary.

At the beginning, I was exited to began the repair process ; but with the time, I'm disappointed not able to found the problem. And more, as my capacities in electronica are limited.

If you haven't no more idea from where's the matter could be (beware, it's not a reproach, I'm very happy you help me until now), I will try to reset all the components and do a new try !

This post has been edited by rsseco: Sep 5 2016, 07:56 PM
rsseco
post Jan 6 2017, 12:37 AM

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QUOTE(asenrzhang @ Sep 5 2016, 05:08 PM)
excl.gif Disclaimer: I'm not a professional electronic engineer, not even an amateur, so, take the advice at your own risk.
I know how frustrated it is when get into puzzle. I was there before, I'm a beginner in electronic engineering too, I spent a year to find out what caused my fuse blown again and again.
But hey, we're not in AA meeting in Hollywood movies, "AA is for quitters  cheers.gif ", said by Bubba J.
You may read @lex (OP)'s posts 2.5 years ago. Those are two replies to another user's "resistor blew" issue after he replaced Q4,
I don't know if it can help, but you can have a look, and check the components listed in the posts.
- https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=66540534
- https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=66570064
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Hi !

I'm back and happy new year !
So today, I decided to re-assemble my S750 again after a sooo long time !
I soldered back all the diods, PNP, changed the 3x IRF740, and let's go to the testing :

- No heatshrink mounted, powered on with CN4 and CN5 unplugged : OK
- No heatshrink mounted, powered on with CN5 plugged and CN4 unplugged : OK
- Same thing, but I pugged CN4 too (twice are now plugged) : and here something went wrong (heard a "pffff" noise and fuse blown)

So it could be one of the amplifier board which are defective ? I know I didin't take off the glue on these boards, perhaps that could be the wrong thing ?

I take a short look to find what could have blown (the "pfff" sound) but didn't find something yet. Perhaps another capacitor ?!?

Any ideas ?


rsseco
post Jan 8 2017, 05:51 AM

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Hi,

It's good to read you again !
No, I haven't replaced any other capacitors (only the 470uF ones). As wrote before, I wanted to repair the set as costless as possible... I need to know how much it will cost me to replace all of them, but I hope it will really be repaired after that.

Today, I visually check the upper Amp board ; nothing to notice.
But on the power board, I notice that the C70 was a little "bumped" on the top (the same cap which had exploded as the set died) ; I removed the protection, but didn't found any electrolite leak. Maybe the "pfff" sound could came from it even so. On the back of the board, the + pole of C70 is wonky, so I think it cames from here.

I will try to buy genuine Capacitors first, as you found that mines were faked.

 

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