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 STOCK MARKET DISCUSSION V133, Bear coming?

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cherroy
post Jun 26 2013, 02:08 PM

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QUOTE(yok70 @ Jun 26 2013, 02:02 PM)
I tried to time the market (again) pre-GE and sold many of my strong fundamental stocks. Guess what, I missed 30-50% stock price upside by this mistake.

REIT now suffer weak sentiment because of fear of rate hike. If interest rate or bond yield up 1%, possibly means REIT's yield need to up 1% in order to attract buyers. This even before consideration of the cost of debt a REIT need to pay will increase too. Consider current yield of 5%, a 1% up to 6%, which means REIT's share price must down 20%.  nod.gif
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OPR is not going to be raised with current economy condition.

It is suicide for central bank to raise rate at this moment or near term, when equities market is volatile, economy is getting slower and no pressure of inflation, (commodities price soft and gold price plunging).

Having said that, I would agree Reit price should go down a bit more, as at the moment, yield is too low (due to too much cash chasing too little thing).

I do not understand why many keep on saying interest rate is going to be hike... too many media cooking?

Bond price drop sending yield higher, yes.
Interest rate, over night rate that set by central bank being raised? Chance is remote.

cherroy
post Jun 26 2013, 03:01 PM

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QUOTE(SKY 1809 @ Jun 26 2013, 02:20 PM)
I think it depends on how well EPF could absorb the Govt Bonds selling by FF .

If US treasury jumps to 3% ( now about 2.6% )  , our Govt  Bonds currently could be less than 3% on average ......

Our ringgit could drop like a stone too.
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Malaysia 10 years is about always at around 3.5~4%.

Actually it is not RM drop, but USD has tremendous strength.
RM vs AUD, is actually appreciating.

Those said USD is worthless, and short USD, bear USD, now being hit left and right, due to massive QE previously.
As many USD bear, either short USD, holding others currency or go into gold market.

The extreme USD bear, short USD, long gold, is the worst scenario for time being.
Left being whacked, right being slapped.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Jun 26 2013, 03:04 PM
cherroy
post Jun 26 2013, 03:32 PM

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QUOTE(SKY 1809 @ Jun 26 2013, 03:19 PM)
U can  have good " stable "  rates in Malaysia , no doubt about it , but sooner or later the liquidity crunch would  take its priority .  laugh.gif

Businesses here have or less facing this impact now.
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Actually, businesses already slow since May...

I don't think there will be a liquidity crunch, just many investors, hedge fund, speculators too addicted to the QE already, suddenly, said QE tapering, then it is like end of the world.

US economy is rather intact, from various economy data showing. Yes, not growing robust and rapidly, but at slow and steady pace. Not in recession, not depression.

China liquidity crunch is easier to solve as compared to US subprime mess.
PBOC can provide liquidity if situation turn worse, after all, China capital market and banking is not as open and free as US. So PBOC should able to solve it much easier than US subprime version.
After all, a minor liquidity crunch may be good for long term future, by killing off persistent high inflation in China, as well as taming the loan growth that spur the inflation.

If there is severe liquidity crunch like 2008 crisis, then it may provide a second life chance to buy dirt cheap stock again.
Seldom lottery hit twice one... tongue.gif
cherroy
post Jun 26 2013, 04:48 PM

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QUOTE(mopster @ Jun 26 2013, 04:42 PM)
i think tomolo and friday will up up too, window dressing right ?
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Friday (end of month trading day) is always 1 batang day (after 4pm) ... laugh.gif
cherroy
post Jun 26 2013, 04:50 PM

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QUOTE(gark @ Jun 26 2013, 04:48 PM)
durian fall down from sky hit your head = dead
daimond fall down, i think should be ok even if it hit your head... laugh.gif
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Diamond is one of the hardest material in this world.
It is being used to cutting tool in industrial usage.

So not something good if a sharp diamond is falling on your head from sky... tongue.gif

cherroy
post Jun 26 2013, 09:20 PM

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QUOTE(mopster @ Jun 26 2013, 08:51 PM)
hmm US Q1 GDP 1.8% vs estimated 2.4%.. hmm.gif downward revision in personal spending...
not a very good sign in terms of recovery, but i think mkt may like it coz it may delay Fed's plan..
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It is a crazy world right now.

Don't like better economy data... laugh.gif

See, market too much addict to QE drug already, market cannot think rationally already... laugh.gif

This post has been edited by cherroy: Jun 26 2013, 09:21 PM
cherroy
post Jun 27 2013, 11:12 AM

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QUOTE(SKY 1809 @ Jun 27 2013, 10:37 AM)
Lower US GDP boosts share markets worldwide , damn weird .....

Still hoping for more stimulus coming ?
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If this logic is right, means if GDP number register negative value even better...... whistling.gif laugh.gif
cherroy
post Jun 27 2013, 02:43 PM

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QUOTE(yhtan @ Jun 27 2013, 02:27 PM)
Opt for single-tier dividend, benefit major shareholder the most, not good for ikan bilis sweat.gif
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High income one surely single tier better.

Corporate tax 25%, personal 26%.
Can save 1% through single tier. tongue.gif

cherroy
post Jun 27 2013, 03:03 PM

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QUOTE(yhtan @ Jun 27 2013, 02:54 PM)
Government also save a lot of money tongue.gif
Still earned some profit isn't it? hmm.gif
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There is a lot lot of money.

For eg.
If a company gives 10 million in total dividend pa. there is 100 company doing so, it means 1 billion of dividend.
out of 1 billion, if we assume 25% is given to minority shareholders that subjected to low tax bracket or don't need to pay tax one (especially retired person whereby no income already so even added dividend so under taxable bracket), means 250 million is given to minority shareholders.
250 x 25% = potential 62.5 million refund!

I believe KLSE listed company give more than 1 billion of dividend annually. I no count on this, correct me if I am wrong.

Somemore, a lot of company have plenty of tax credit around, so it is a big waste for those tax credit not being utilised, particular for those shareholders that have low tax bracket or under taxable bracket one, and particularly for retired person.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Jun 27 2013, 03:03 PM
cherroy
post Jun 28 2013, 02:10 PM

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QUOTE(gark @ Jun 28 2013, 01:48 PM)
Gold thread very keng today.. lose money can twist and turn to calculate until win money one.... if we invest like that mah everyday hoseh. never lose money even the stock goes down.  rclxms.gif
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It depends on creativity in number and figure. whistling.gif

If this kind of counting use in account, then you see tons of profit.
But pocket empty one... laugh.gif

The reason why we have many account issue nowadays? laugh.gif

cherroy
post Jun 28 2013, 02:26 PM

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QUOTE(Bonescythe @ Jun 28 2013, 02:23 PM)
He should help other people to short sell their gold and buy back then only earn la.. Short sell sendiri punya for wad la.. Haha
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The problem of this, sell then price reverse to upside, then habis...

I tried this method long long time ago during bear market. (decade back)
I can say this method didn't work well (at least for me), as you need to fish at bottom, often drowned in bottom with this method.

End up share don't have and losing money...
cherroy
post Jun 29 2013, 10:58 AM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Jun 29 2013, 09:46 AM)
But beware, some companies put interest paid under op cash flow, some put under financing cash flow. Maybe, for the sake of fair comparison, just take cash generated from operations hmm.gif

Cash flow statement is quite flexible, there's no 1 "correct" standard
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I only know to count how much dividend I received, then ensure the dividend paid is not due to company increase in borrowing, or reduce the significant the cash pile of the company. tongue.gif
cherroy
post Jul 4 2013, 11:12 AM

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QUOTE(gark @ Jul 4 2013, 10:42 AM)
Yeah take ferry from Harbour bay to Batam Island, about 1.5 hours trip.

Batam is known as Singapore's playground... icon_idea.gif weekend very crowded with guys telling their wife they go play 'golf'  brows.gif


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Then you must be a good and experienced golfer? brows.gif

Hitting hole in one... laugh.gif

This post has been edited by cherroy: Jul 4 2013, 11:13 AM
cherroy
post Jul 8 2013, 03:22 PM

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QUOTE(MilesAndMore @ Jul 8 2013, 12:12 PM)
Because yield is poor, especially in First and Business Class.
It has always been the international routes that are bleeding... as for domestic routes... well back in the 2005, the CEO then did openly say that of all of the domestic routes MAS was flying then, only three trunk routes were making money and those three trunk routes were said to be KL-KK, KL-Kuching and KL-Penang.
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I don't understand some route like Pg-Sg, MAS doesn't have direct flight at all.

Passenger want to go to Sg, either take Airasia or Silkair.
Silkair has 4-5 flight daily from Pg-Sg, if this is not profitable route, I do not think Silkair has so many flight daily.

Bare in mind, a return flight ticket of Silkair range from Rm500-800. This is only an hour flight journey.
So why Mas do not offer such a route?

This post has been edited by cherroy: Jul 8 2013, 03:22 PM
cherroy
post Jul 9 2013, 09:48 PM

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QUOTE(jasontoh @ Jul 9 2013, 09:04 PM)
If the people getting loan has steel rice bowl, I'm ok.
Anyway, I'm just waiting for them to convert to bank, then at least I will have 3 banks in my portfolio. Now can only say 2 banks, and this one consider Ceti biggrin.gif
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If one over-commit on loan, even steel rice bowl won't going to help.

Cannot be all wages or more than 60% of wages in steel rice bowl goes into repayment of bank loan.

For eg. buy car with 30% of wages, another 20% for personal loan, this has not yet counted the maintenance cost of car, petrol, basic spending like electricity bill etc.
Even has steel rice bowl won't going to help if over-commit.

So it is good that BNM set strict loan guidelines to prevent defaulting risk in the future.
cherroy
post Jul 9 2013, 10:02 PM

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QUOTE(jasontoh @ Jul 9 2013, 09:57 PM)
I am pretty sure the BNM ruling just good for the statistic. People will default faster if cash is clogged earlier than ever.
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Defaulted faster could means smaller issue or non-issue

But let it dragging become like a mountain, only then default, then it could threaten the economy and financial system entirely.
This was what happening for subprime mess.

Uncontrollable personal loan can be very similar version to subprime loan as well.

As personal loan is not something good to have.

Unlike housing loan, it gives people shelter as well as an asset that still can recoup the money paid.
But personal loan, a lot of time, ended up spending it away.

Not so good thing happens earlier is better than latter.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Jul 9 2013, 10:03 PM
cherroy
post Jul 10 2013, 10:07 PM

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QUOTE(StupidGuyPlayComp @ Jul 10 2013, 04:14 PM)
hmm.gif cheaper ticket price = lower profit margin

got advantage and disadvantage for investor
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Usually, the one really make big fat profit is those selling their goods/services at a premium.

Branded bags, a few thousand people also rushing to buy.
Phone, people look for those branded/premium phone name, 2K plus also want.

Those business concentrate on lower price one, is very tough and can be very competiitve for management to run.

Not to say, lower price related business one must be no good, it can have its own strength as well.
But lower price one is more easy to be replaced. As consumer look at price only, and consumer loyal to price, instead of brand.

It is those business with their consumer loyal to their brand, that company/business can charge more premium.

Must get the balance right. Lower price attract customer, at the same time, must build up the brand as well.
cherroy
post Jul 11 2013, 10:32 AM

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QUOTE(StupidGuyPlayComp @ Jul 11 2013, 09:06 AM)
hmm.gif Bernake said will continue support QE3.............until when no mention

he said even jobless rate reduce to 6.5%, the interest rate may not raise so soon
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There is remote chance that Fed or most central banks raising rate (after last few week of interest rate story cooking) in the near term (1-2 years down the road).
The most is QE tapering or no more new QE.

Same with local interest rate situation.

While if interest rate is hiked, actually it is good thing to have as it means economy is doing well already.

cherroy
post Jul 11 2013, 03:10 PM

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QUOTE(jasontoh @ Jul 11 2013, 10:40 AM)
It is only good IF the economy IS REALLY doing well. And we know that most of the time, the central banks are wrong.
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At the moment or situation, the only wrong decision that central bank can make is raising rate too slow, and let inflation running wild.

In fact, what I see is that most central banks are not hawkish enough on rate.
We have been running at negative real interest rate for sometimes already, and yet most central banks do not act on it.

So I do not see how interest rate can go up in near term.
cherroy
post Jul 11 2013, 03:15 PM

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QUOTE(StupidGuyPlayComp @ Jul 11 2013, 03:12 PM)
hmm.gif low inflation, no purpose to raise interest............
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Now Japan set inflation target, Fed also set inflation target.
Both want some inflation.

So there is remote chance only when central banks "want" some inflation.

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