Nice one - I’m about to book a unit too despite not having visited the showroom. Glad to see positive feedback re the showroom.

Agree with your thoughts too.

There will still be a risk as with all property purchases but I believe the price compensates for this.

I’m residing overseas right now so buying as an investment for now but can also see myself living there in the future given its proximity to the most likely companies that I will work for, if I’m home.

Hopefully we have a WhatsApp group soon once SPA is signed and confirmed.

Nice to see all the potential pros and cons being laid out for this project but as with any investment, unless you have a crystal ball, it’s quite difficult to know what’s going to happen in 4-5 years down the line.

Given OPUS current situation, I think it’s fair to say that this area isn’t a quick money making scheme and requires good holding power.

Nevertheless, having seen the review from YouTube, it looks like a quality development with quality furnishing being provided and communal areas look great. Now... imagine there will be several other developments of similar quality, would it then be fair to say the attractiveness of the area will experience an uplift?

And once an area is perceived to be more attractive, this naturally translates to higher occupancy and in turn, results in more incentive to increase commercial activity. Whilst it’s a chicken and egg situation, I’m secretly hoping the 3rd block from Sunway will be a mix of office and retail lots, which will most certainly help create a more sustainable community.

Regarding holding power, we’ll also have to consider the lease aspect as leasehold property value tends to depreciate over time as the years go by. However, this isn’t an issue for OPUS and Sunway Belfield given their freehold status so the incentive to hold is still there.

I also think there’s too much focus on PNB118 but living here isn’t just about PNB118. I don’t tend to buy if I can’t see myself living in it and would always prefer freehold titles.

Am I excited with Sunway Belfield if I were to live there?

Definitely. It’s literally 5-10mins away by car from all the main financial institutions that I could potentially be working for if I return.

If I ever start a family, there will be good access to Chinese, government and private schools too.

Yes, I would have preferred an MRT/LRT but monorail to me is an icing on the cake as in my opinion, the main selling point should be its connectivity to the surrounding areas by car.

And even so, I wouldn’t disregard monorail completely as it’s only 2-3 stations down the line to access other lines. I’m a huge fan of public transport having experienced the convenience both in KL (via MRT/LRT) and overseas so having monorail around the corner is a positive point.

Limited amenities yes, but I can’t see myself walking under the hot sun in Malaysia (and I don’t think many will) so will most likely drive anyway, which is brilliant given the road connectivity. Unless it’s a TOD development (like Ekocheras and Velocity), where walking around is made comfortable (eg. sheltered, aircon etc), whether the area has good amenities or not, I’ll still drive personally (and imagine many others will too). And this is where this area shines - close to lots of popular malls/attractions by car.

I better stop before I go on and on but I’m genuinely excited to see how this pans out in the next 5 years and beyond. For buyers who only buy when an area is developed, then it’s almost always the case where you’ll have to pay a premium.

Rome wasn’t built in a day.

I’m a buyer for this development so naturally I’d be taking the optimistic view but I also appreciate pessimistic comments from others as it provides a more balanced assessment.

In any case, good luck to all current and future buyers. Do your financial assessment / projections and if you can comfortably support the purchase even if the rental rate doesn’t turn out the way you’d like it to be, go for it if you like the idea owning a piece of KL freehold land at a reasonable price psf (despite its density but hey, there’s no free lunch in this world) and Sunway product (which may also have its perks for future Sunway purchases).

This post has been edited by ekorjiulai: Dec 28 2020, 04:37 PM

One interesting observation from Sunway’s YouTube channel is that Sunway Belfield has the highest view count (550,000 views) compared to their other developments, despite only been created recently.

This in some ways demonstrates the level of interest amongst potential buyers.

I think we shouldn’t assume that all buyers are purely buying for rental yield only (ie there would still be a proportion of buyers buying for own stay).

This development I believe will attract a fairly sizeable proportion of own stay buyers due to its fairly big layouts (considering it’s so central), affordable price psf, affordable net price, reasonable maintenance fee (eg. 35 cents per sqft so a 3 bed 2 bath unit works out just under RM400), 2 carparks for 3 bedrooms and above (perfect for family of 3/4), nice facilities, good schools, close proximity to big firms for city workers, security and monorail for the occasional trips. I can see this sort of plus points appeal to the current trend with lifestyle living on the rise. Not everyone wants/need to live in a big mansion and would rather save commuting time. Time is money afterall.

I for one wouldn’t want a development that attracts Airbnb operators as it tends to affect the facilities more than a typical residential development.

So with a good proportion of own stay buyers and landlords, the risk of low occupancy is reduced and less competition between landlords. Higher proportion of own stay buyers would also translate to better upkeep of the property which in turn increases the appeal/value.

Nevertheless, everyone loves numbers so let’s do some projections below in case you’re considering to buy as an investment:

Rental RM2800 a month (for 3 bed 2 bath unit - I think this isn’t unreasonable considering central KL location and on-going OPUS rates. Also we are talking at least 4 years down the line so who knows what the demand will be when the economy picks up again)

The above rental translates to about 2.7psf, which personally I think it’s a fairly conservative estimate. If anything, 3psf isn’t entirely impossible also.

Maintenance 0.35psf

Average price 700-750psf (depending on your unit selection)

Gross yield (3psf rental, 725psf mid-point unit price, 0.35psf) = ~3.66%

Similarly, on a conservative 2.7psf rental, gross yield is ~3.25%.

Not bad at all considering current FD rates is like what, 2.5%? And FD doesn’t benefit from any capital appreciation.

You’re most likely not buying in cash so the gross yield above will have to be adjusted based on the amount you have invested with your own cash (ie downpayment, fees, etc.).

You may argue that hey, Tesla stocks surged x5-6 this year alone but would you ever apply for a housing loan to invest in Tesla?

Maybe yes if you’re extremely hungry for risk but the majority probably wouldn’t due to stock market volatility. Properties on the other hand are meant to be a slow burner, benefiting from inflation (ie you don’t pay cash in advance to benefit from time value of money - the later you pay up, the better because value of money decreases over time due to inflation).

And the above is only based on rental yield so you may also benefit from capital appreciation. But let’s be real - condos/service apartments asset classes don’t usually appreciate as much compared to landed. Landed on the other hand aren’t the best for rental. So it really depends on what exactly you are aiming for - build a portfolio of income producing assets or a portfolio for capital growth, just like dividend vs. growth stocks.

At 700-750psf, I would think there’s still room for appreciation given all the > 1000psf developments around the city. Even if it stays at this level, you’re still in the money due to inflation. At such an entry price, I think the downside risk is low and manageable.

Interest rates charged by banks are low at the moment too and along with HOC perks, I don’t think it’s such a bad time to consider such a property.

There are macroeconomic concerns of course but this is anyone’s guess. Economies go in cycle so as long as you only buy if you can afford to hold, I don’t think you can go terribly wrong with this. There are also concerns re supply (though personally I think KL freehold properties in decent location aren’t exactly in excess) which shouldn’t be disregarded but again, this is where you need to do some work to your unit to standout from the crowd. Nevertheless, when economies recover, demand will naturally tick up again.

And this property will only be ready in 4 years time at the earliest I reckon, and do you think the post-Covid economy will recover in 4 years time? That’s up to you to decide but I think the odds are higher for a recovery in my view.

This post has been edited by ekorjiulai: Dec 29 2020, 09:42 PM

You’re right and I wouldn’t disagree particularly for those who likes big spaces further out from the city but based on the last sales chart, there seems to be an appetite for larger units, which could potentially be driven by the school and access to central KL.

Most of the smaller Type A units are probably purchased by investors looking to rent out to young professional couples seeking city living.

I wouldn’t say it’s a gamble but considering all other aspects mentioned, it’s a risk that I’m comfortable taking on but again, each to their own. Maybe my expectations aren’t as high as I’m really only looking for safe buys. I just like the idea of having a piece KL freehold address, along with a Sunway branding.

Jokes on me if the economy turns out to be worse but I can only blame myself for my lack of foresight.

Good day bro and appreciate your views too. All the best to everyone!

This I agree completely - definitely do your own research and no one knows your circumstances/finances more than anyone but yourself.

Yep, I considered this impact too but as per my earlier post, I’d actually welcome newer/more quality homes to facelift the area and encourage more professionals to move to the area and thereby increasing the attractiveness for more commercial activities. The thing that I won’t know is what sort of pricing it will be, as different pricing attracts different tenant profiles. However, given that these yet to be launched developments haven’t started any construction works yet, they may very well launch when PNB118 is closer to completion to fetch a higher psf pricing. So in this sense, entry price of 700-750psf for a freehold development should limit the downside risk.

Competition is a concern but as far as I’m aware, the two plots of Salcon and Tradewind lands are leasehold so if this is true, then Sunway Belfield still has the edge over the long term.

Ekocheras 😁 There are some good deal subsales that I would have considered if I didn’t already hold a unit there (prefer to diversify especially when you have limited funds...). Freehold, direct link to MRT, matured area, good food, shopping mall, cinema etc can’t go too wrong in the long run. I struggled to find another development that is as attractive as EKC in terms of pricing, connectivity, rentability, freehold and most importantly, one that I will be happy to live in, until I came across Sunway Belfield a few months ago and been waiting for its launch since.

But I won’t go as far as saying “promise investment return”. No free lunch in this world. Risk reward system tends to be quite fair, the more risk you take, the higher your potential return but downside risk is greater too. So best not to bite off more than you can chew.

Doom and gloom projections affecting the property market is a cue for taking a position. Would you rather take a position when the market is slow, depressed etc and hence lower pricing or when the market is hot with strong demand pushing the prices up?

If it was me, I’d do the former as long as holding power is there to ride the wave, in case it falls further. In stocks, there’s a saying “don’t try to catch the falling knife” but if you’re confident that the knife is of good quality based on past experience, the demand for good knives will pick up again because who doesn’t like a sharp knife in the kitchen right? Makes cooking so much more pleasurable! 😁 Maybe I’m not making money in stocks because I’m not taking my own advice haha...

In short, buy low sell high and unfortunately, you tend to be able to buy low when the market tanks or when the general market sentiment is low / fear factor is high. As long as you have strong holding power, you control the price and won’t make a loss unless you sell. Whether it’s stocks or properties, the concept can be applied equally. I prefer properties due to benefits of leverage (if understood and used properly), lower volatility, tangible, income producing (hence why location is so important to me) and adjustable (ie. unfurnished / partial furnished / fully furnished / own stay if can’t rent out etc). The one question I always ask myself is whether will I live there? I find that it helps me to decide, along with other factors (freehold, fair pricing, growth potential).

p/s nowhere near a sifu so do your own research as always 🤓

This post has been edited by ekorjiulai: Dec 30 2020, 05:26 PM

I believe it’s leasehold and if yes, I think it’s good news for Sunway Belfield at that price point for a leasehold property. Will be interesting to compare the pricing once it’s been finalised.

Some initial details on the project taken from their interim financial report:

• EcoWorld’s ability to meet the needs of young urbanites and investors seeking to own a residential property within the city centre will be enhanced with the introduction of SWNK Houze at BBCC in FY2021. This exciting new product offers a wide range of serviced apartments from studio units, 1- bed, 2-beds, 2+1 beds, 3-beds as well as dual key units with a cool, urban-chic vibe.

Following a decision by Hass Holdings Sdn Bhd to discontinue its proposed purchase of a 28-storey hotel block from BBCC, SWNK Houze will replace the hotel block and be situated right above the Entertainment Hub and immediately adjacent to the Mitsui-Lalaport Retail Mall. Purchasers and residents of SWNK Houze will therefore be able to enjoy the best of inner-city living with a wide variety of retail and entertainment options (offered by Sony Music’s Zepp Hall, the Malaysian Grand Bazaar and cineplexes which are all housed within the Entertainment Hub).

This post has been edited by ekorjiulai: Jan 3 2021, 01:26 AM

True but if I was in a supermarket looking to buy fruits, and so happened that apples and oranges are placed closed to each other, the price difference between apple and orange will affect my buying decision to a certain extent, if I don’t mind having either one. If oranges were priced significantly higher, it would indirectly indicate that apples are really good value. After all, both are fruits and provide similar nutrients.

Likewise, Sunway Belfield and BBCC are different products but at the end of the day, they are properties meant for dwelling purposes so there’s bound to be some similarities.

So I wouldn’t disregard the price for BBCC just because it is deemed as a more strategic area in comparison to Sunway Belfield.

If BBCC pricing is much higher, it will have a spillover effect on the surrounding areas too. For investment purposes, I personally find investing at the fringe of an expensive area to be much better value for money.

But if you only like to eat oranges, then no choice la...

Nevertheless, I do get your point even though I still see some value to compare properties of similar nature (both residential), unlike the comparison between residential and office shoplots.

Apparently referral fees were not introduced for this project, at least for now, due to the level of interest generated so far.

There were units released earlier this week due to loan rejects but were re-booked quickly by those who have already placed a booking cheque on the waiting list.

For the latest update, I’d suggest that you contact the sales office directly.

This post has been edited by ekorjiulai: Jan 20 2021, 08:31 AM

The reason is because APDL for Sunway Belfield was only issued after May 2020, and the special HOC treatment on 3rd property loan onwards only apply to projects launched prior to May 2020 (hence Sunway Velocity being eligible for loan > 70% for buyers with more than 2 property loans).

The primary purpose of the HOC is really to help developers to clear old stock and hence reduce the overhang units.

But I agree it doesn't make good sense since the units are still sold by developers... oh well...

This post has been edited by ekorjiulai: Feb 2 2021, 01:25 AM

That’s one cemetery but unit types quoted for that aren’t exactly correct. The unit types quoted above will have much lesser view of a cemetery (and some not from the main balcony view so even lesser of a cemetery view, as it depends on where the windows are) since they are much further away from the cemetery compared to unit Types A and D.

Type A and D facing istana


Type E, C and D facing Tradewind land


This post has been edited by ekorjiulai: Feb 8 2021, 04:12 PM

Distance between the two buildings is 45meters, about 150ft.