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 V11 - Property Prices Discussion, Intelligent debates only pls

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TSkochin
post Jun 21 2013, 07:46 PM

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QUOTE(ManutdGiggs @ Jun 21 2013, 06:41 PM)
Boss if DPC ok??? Slightly higher than ur budget.
If not mistaken 2 units, its 1.35mil each in Nadia. However, I falied to contact owners. Heard fr management tat owners might just settle prior to auction. So stil unsure if can c tis 2 units in auction.
*
sorry boss. am in love with pj. although exemptions can be made to certain spots such as temasya.
and i don't think i can keep up with the joneses in dpc.
but thanks for the offer though.

PS: just asking only. am not ready to plough down >RM1mil yet even for own resi.
TSkochin
post Jun 22 2013, 01:55 PM

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actually the trend is indeed kinda alarming.
people are buying without even a flinch.
rm1k? did not even bat an eyelid and sapu. and mind you not just 1 unit but multiple units.
scary!
TSkochin
post Jun 27 2013, 01:34 PM

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bila beli emas?
TSkochin
post Jun 27 2013, 02:27 PM

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QUOTE(firee818 @ Jun 27 2013, 02:21 PM)
Palm oil down,
Gold down,
Silver down,
Oil down,
Stock market down,

What next?

Property down?
*
interest rates? tongue.gif
TSkochin
post Jun 27 2013, 02:54 PM

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QUOTE(AppreciativeMan @ Jun 27 2013, 02:51 PM)
Yeah.... I don't see the potentiality of going back to 1800 in short term of 1-2yrs....
*
can.....
start a war lor.
or world war z.
straight away jump two folds.
TSkochin
post Jun 28 2013, 09:35 AM

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funny stuff:
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2865458

ooops. OT.
soli.
TSkochin
post Jun 29 2013, 11:35 AM

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QUOTE(M3aty @ Jun 29 2013, 11:29 AM)
Do you think the prices of the houses in Malaysia will go down?
*
definitely!
but the bigger question is when? and how much?
TSkochin
post Jun 29 2013, 12:09 PM

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cherroy boss, gold prices and property prices do have some common points lah.
so if we discuss gold prices here, think it's fair but just need to remind ourselves not to get too carried away about gold discussions.
after all, both are perceived as main tools to hedge against inflation, right?

TSkochin
post Jun 30 2013, 11:05 PM

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Ah....... Debate on bts again, huh?
Let's speculate what is gonna happen IF that is going to happen:
1. Big jump in price due to temporary no supply of 'new' housing for the initial period it is implemented. Demand > supply temporary due to pent up demand.
2. Greater manipulation of prices from developers. Since it is fully completed, why should the developer start offering their product at the lower end of the pricing spectrum? They would start with high price. Demand good, then raise price further. If no good then only lower the prices slightly until market accepts it. In short no more bargain prices for property purchasers.
3. Less developers as only big boys gets to play this game. Less competition, more monopoly of the trade.
4. If you think it is tough to buy property in hot launches, wait till bts is launched. For good projects, only cabled people would be offer to buy. Common people would not stand any chance at all.
5. Anybody has any idea on financing costs between bts and stb concept. Stb is basically relying on purchaser's financing to finance the job. If bts, you can only imagine the additional cost the product comes with. Again higher selling prices.

There are plenty more reasons. But having said so bts do have it's merits as well. There would be less abandonment of projects. No more compromise on qualities because it would be wysiwyg.
TSkochin
post Jun 30 2013, 11:13 PM

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QUOTE(icemanfx @ Jun 30 2013, 10:43 PM)
Developers are already paying interest under DIBS and priced in.

Under current arrangement, in event of cost over run, developer could abandon the project and leave buyers high and dry. Under BTS, the developer could priced cost over run into selling price, and buyers need not to bare the completion risk.

Developers are the party making millions, why should buyers bare construction risk, market risk, completion risk for developers?

May be you like to elaborate more; "Also with this BTS, people will feel that 2nd hand properties have no much difference from 1st hand properties, thus this will push up prices in secondary market. Overall, BTS will only push up both 1st hand and 2nd hand properties."
*
Boss, trust me when I say the past few years, it is the speculators and banks that are making more than the developers.
For instance, a project selling at rm500psf. How much do you think the developer price is? Do you think their land cost, const cost, development cost, financing cost, consultation cost, administration cost, sales and marketing cost, etc would result in say less than 300psf to enable them a fat 50% profit?

Do you know that a lot of utility company actually charges a % of the sales value nowadays as contribution charges? Similar to sales and admin costs?

Not forgetting as more and more legislation is imposed on development nowadays. Eg. Minimum green space, minimum facilities such as Surau or nursery, open field for landed, etc. all these compliance again translate to cost.


TSkochin
post Jun 30 2013, 11:14 PM

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QUOTE(blowwater101 @ Jun 30 2013, 11:05 PM)
Yes, u are right bro. So i choose a boat which i think it is not overloaded. If u think it is overloaded then u can walk, everyone have their own preference....nobody force u to go on board ma  biggrin.gif

just be reminded that unbeatable boat is not exist in this world.. brows.gif
*
Titanic was touted to be the unsinkable ship and yet it sunk. tongue.gif
TSkochin
post Jul 1 2013, 08:36 AM

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QUOTE(icemanfx @ Jun 30 2013, 11:38 PM)

*
Under current practice, supply is delivered only after 2 to 3 years.
so you are okay with no supply for the entire country for approx 2 years landed and 3 years highrise.
that's almost akin to request for no newborns for 2-3 years? hmm.gif

What about current price manipulation by speculators and flippers?
i did emphasis on the word greater.

Believe bank have no issue to support small reputable developers. At least fly by night developers are no longer in the market.
hhhmmmmm....? u sure about that? banks favour small reputable developers. if they do, probably because they get to charge higher interest, perhaps. and even with abolishment of fly by night developers, it means less competition, less supply scenario.

Not happening under current scheme?
i did say it is gonna get even tougher. shesssh.... please read before commenting.

At the of the day, buyers still pay whether directly or indirectly.
yes and no. try financing 300k versus 300mil. try receiving progressive cashflow inflow versus total lump sum payment at end of project. work out the financing cost. and tell me whether there's a BIG difference or not.


TSkochin
post Jul 1 2013, 11:01 AM

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QUOTE(joeblows @ Jul 1 2013, 10:49 AM)
Yup, and not counting insanely pricey psf like Cloudtree Cheras or Vina Versatile at 500-600 psf. Or mad prices in Puchong and Putrajaya.

Or that SDB project in Balakong.
*
what would be your expected 'reasonable' prices for such location and their concept?

TSkochin
post Jul 1 2013, 11:39 AM

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QUOTE(joeblows @ Jul 1 2013, 11:29 AM)
Under 400psf

Especially for location so far away, high density, mid- to low-end range homes such as the above.

Ideally for those location some way out of KL - 1000-1200sqft should be around RM400k max.
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i agree if the product is plain jane vanilla.
but these developers try to improvise by offering so called 'high-end' luxury concept to their purchasers.

for instance, if say a pelangi damansara or palm spring is sited at these location, 1000sf at RM400k, would you have accepted these pricing?
or are you gonna say now that if it's these kinda product, then pricing should go lower still?
and again at what cost? 300psf?

and seeing what vina versatile and cloud trees are sorta different from "in your terms" quote: mid to low end range homes, do they justify their pricetag now?
unless of course you are referring to these as no difference from palm spring or pelangi damansara.

funny thing is, once you make it affordable enough, more people is gonna be jumping on to the bandwagon again. once that happens, price creeps up. when price creeps up, it's no longer affordable and back to square one all over again.

no right, no wrong. just exchanging banters with you boss. and trying to see where you're coming from. icon_rolleyes.gif

PS: apologies to palm spring and pelangi damansara owners for using this tasteless example.


TSkochin
post Jul 1 2013, 12:06 PM

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QUOTE(Rooney1985 @ Jul 1 2013, 11:55 AM)
Of course they have money, borrowed money in the form of credit cards!!!! Nowadays more banks can offer cards on the spot... lol!!! same approach to property (DIBs) a.k.a buy now, think and pay later... hehe... what an excellent concept.

Oh on the question about building/ lifestyle concept and the value attached to it... Even if you build a Marc Residence concept in some far away outskirts which is >20km from city centre... its still outskirts... look at the vicinity what do you have there? Aside from an MRT station... You'll be driving through low cost residence/ shop lots everyday to get to your so called high-end condo smack in the middle of no-man's land... I think selling on build concept is over-rated. Its still all about the location you stay in and the availability of luxuries in that area... no point paying 500psf and still having to drive to city centre to buy what you need / want in terms of high street brands.
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hahaha. nice that you answered on someone's behalf.
you got a point.
but in this case, they are not over exaggerating on their product.
maybe another example is ice cream.
while they are not offering the best ice cream, they do add nuts and chocolate dip. while these extra may cost only RM30 cents, but yes, they are charging a full fare of RM1 for their troubles to bring you the additionals.
somehow or rather, i find that this market is the most easily sought after.

you can't afford an armani, but you do not want to seen in a hang ten, so what do you get? you get an improvise hang ten at about 30% of a AX price hybrid product. kekeke.
and thus so many other brands flourishes because of this.
do you agree boss?
TSkochin
post Jul 1 2013, 02:35 PM

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QUOTE(Rooney1985 @ Jul 1 2013, 01:09 PM)
Not really, its more like - the shop design looks like Armani and the clothes looks like Armani but actually its a cheap knock-off and quality of material/ workmanship is not up to par... furthermore the shop is located, not in a shopping complex but a shop lot with no air-conditioning, located in some far away place... your neighboring shops are not Versace or Gucci but its a chicken rice shop and car garage... lmfao!!!! End of the day... this fake shop sells its product at 70% of the real Armani... now you tell me... what value you gonna place on it (as a percentage of the real deal)?

Reality, there would be some who would be willing to buy it and walk around in them... but people who really know Armani can tell the difference... Its like LV, nowadays you just see a while bunch of people using it, but when you take a closer look... my god!!!! Wouldn't be caught dead with one of those... however, there are still people who use them... sorry to say it, no offense intended... but I think it's pretty low class... apologies... If you can't afford it get something you can afford instead of paying for an overpriced knock-off that actually brings less value.

By doing so it also brings the value of the real brand down... imagine have The Oval - KLCC (real thing) and The Oval - Klang Meru... ROFLMAO!!!... My god... i can just imagine the conversations... oh where do you stay..., the Oval..., oh, the one near KLCC... no its actually in Klang... ROFLMAO!!!!..... Yikes...!!! scary thought... I guess same goes for like add on "Hartamas" "Kiara" or whatever it is... just do pathetic and cheap.. Again no offense intended to those staying in those areas... The above names are used as examples only.
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isn't imitation the best form of flattery?
after all, you are carrying rooney's nick.
so...... errr......
i'll better let you do the explaining. kekeke.
TSkochin
post Jul 1 2013, 04:16 PM

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QUOTE(icemanfx @ Jul 1 2013, 03:47 PM)
Assume property is 100m2, developer cost is RM3,000/m2, buyer pay RM5,000/m2, 100% financing, drawdown every quarterly, from first drawdown to completion is 24 months (total 9 drawdown).

If BOTH developer and buyer is paying 6% interest;
Developer's total bank interest payment is RM25,425 vs Buyer's RM42,375.

If developer's interest rate is 6% and buyer's 4%;
Developer's total bank interest payment is RM25,425 vs Buyer's RM28,250.

As buyer is paying interest on selling price (RM500k) and developer is paying on cost price (RM300k), buyer's interest payment is hard to be lower than developer's.
*
doh.gif

scenario 1.
i sell clothes.
i ask around. confirm 100 orders for shirt + pants, then only i confirm to start work. but before start work i request the 100 confirmed orders to pay me RM1 to buy the cloth first.
hence i pocket rm100 to buy cloth.
i buy the cloth with rm80. use rm20 + bank borrow rm200 to buy sewing machine.
i sew the shirt and show my customers. customers ok and pay additional rm3. i gather rm300 now to pare down my loans and also use rm80 to buy cloth again and additional rm50 for packaging material. i sew the pants now. i request customer to fully pay up the balance rm2 before delivery. i use the rm200 to pare down my loans and deliver the product.
my loan peaked at rm200 momentarily before i pared down with new loan at rm30 and pared down again just before delivery.
my total interest chargeable is rm200 for a brief period + rm30 interest for a brief period too.
my base cost is actually rm430 + (rm200 + rm30 bank interest) + profit


scenario 2.
i buy rm160 cloth.
i buy the sewing machine at rm220.
i buy packaging material at rm50 later.
total borrowing =rm430 (rm380 upfront and rm50 later).
bank charges me rm380 interest for extended period and rm50 interest on short period.
completed and my base cost before selling = rm430 + (rm430 bank interest) + profit.

magnify that by millions and there you go.
now you tell me, which is cheaper?
and for scenario 2, don't even dream of getting a full rm430 loan to begin with.
TSkochin
post Jul 1 2013, 04:41 PM

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QUOTE(icemanfx @ Jul 1 2013, 04:39 PM)
What about buyer's interest payment?
*
you still don't get it don't you?
nvrm.
TSkochin
post Jul 1 2013, 04:42 PM

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QUOTE(joeblows @ Jul 1 2013, 04:27 PM)
Super wrong analogy.  doh.gif

i sell clothes. Selling at RM20 (by the way your example of selling price of RM6 per pair is lower than the cost price of the developer. Cannot brain).
i ask around. confirm 100 orders for shirt + pants, then only i confirm to start work. but before start work i request the 100 confirmed orders to pay me RM2 to buy the cloth first. BUT the catch is customer need to borrow RM18 from the bank as well.
hence i pocket rm200 to buy cloth.
i buy the cloth with rm80. use rm20 + bank borrow rm200 to buy sewing machine. I use remaining RM100 to start new project to sell to other customers. "Roll" mah! Hehehe!
i sew the two shirts and 50 collars and show my customers. customers ok and pay additional rm8. i gather rm800 now to pare down my loans and also use rm80 to buy cloth again and additional rm50 for packaging material AND also to roll again and start new project. Then I buy new BMW. And a new Bungalow too in Sydney.
i sew some shirts now - but then not enough cash after paying downpayment for my new beemer, so I replace with low quality cloth and cos I got too many projects, simply simply do lah. Bo jio. After all this suckers already paid in full already what. hehehe.
Shirts finish, some customers not too happy. I planning to start another project but then banks call the loans in. Shit!

I run away to my Sydney house, use some money to kautim some ministers in KL. No problem!

As for buyers, well, they got a shirt what. The pants, belakang kira la. Those ministers I didn't pay for nothing ok. Property only ever goes up. Semua-nya ok.
*
hhmmmm......
i like your version much better....

but i afraid of fire in hell.
so i better..... rolleyes.gif
TSkochin
post Jul 1 2013, 05:38 PM

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QUOTE(Rooney1985 @ Jul 1 2013, 05:32 PM)
I think that's way off point.
We're talking about high-end/ lifestyle concepts developed in no man's land and being sold at prime area prices.
Hope you read properly before doing a 407. haha!
*
aiseh... boss.
cloud trees selling marc residence price meh?
not really lah.
they are selling perhaps 20-30% higher than nearby prices perhaps.

give me some credit lah.
you think i really simply shoot meh.

even if you wanna refer to TG's KD at KLCC prices. but to be fair to them, need to compare Apple to Apple.
any new launch circa KLCC to match TG's KD prices?

that's all for today.
have a great evening. notworthy.gif

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