Hi everyone, I'm asking on behalf of my dad because he's not sure of what MPV to buy for my mom

My mom is currently driving a first gen Toyota Avanza (late-2003 model I think) and is still running fine until today
My dad is thinking of getting my mom a new MPV probably later this year or early 2014. My mom is an MPV-person because of it's practicality and whatnot.
Which is why currently my dad is considering these 3 MPVs for my mom, which are Toyota Innova, Toyota Avanza, and Nissan Grand Livina. All of which are within the budget that my dad is willing to pay for an MPV

In my opinion, the new Avanza looks pretty ugly to me, and knowing my mom's taste in cars, she probably would agree with me that the new Avanza doesn't look nice
The new 2012 facelifted Innova looks decent, and the Grand Livina looks the nicest among these 3

The current first-gen Avanza my mom currently drives is pretty underpowered from what I can feel.. Although I'm not much of a car person

Anyway my question is, which of the 3 cars have the best fuel economy, practicality and performance for the price?

I'd like to know what you guys think

PS: My mom only wants an Auto transmission car

at first u commented on the look but u asked for fc, practicality and performance. set your priority first before ask.

seems like u dissed the new avanza alot in term of look but it gives the best price, value, and performance for an auto 1.5.

innova is simply expensive for very dated model.
grand livina is much much smaller than avanza.

Innova is too expensive for the specs given and the ride is not so good. But have the largest space among all.

Avanza is bumpy and too basics. Underpower too

Grand livina looking good, get the 1.8 and add on Impul bodykit The 1.8 engine is quite powerful, if can avoid the 1.6

Dont ever consider exora bold, too sluggish, no resale value, power windows malfunction, high fc and its a Potong

I'll get grand livina 1.8 for lower center of gravity and probably the most comfort among all (not referring to the 3rd row). I think grand livina facelift version might launch soon.
Else I'll consider perodua alza 1.5 for fuel saving city drive purpose.
Innova is like big potata, while avanza is bumpy.

why is these car even here except grand livina
the only good one there from what i see is grand livina
else is exora bold CFE

Wait for the Kia Carens,how about the Chery Easter?

Grand livina is smaller than avanza? looks like livina is longer to me

So basically saying the new Avanza is not much difference with the first-gen Avanza in terms of comfort and performance?

It's true that Innova is super big
And yeah i heard grand livina facelift version coming end of the year

My dad not interested in any brand except jap.. No idea why either

Avanza floaty, bumpy, not safe at all. Also very outdated model. Meant for 3rd world.

Grand Livina floaty above 110 or so? Complaints by owners here. Sort of meant for 3rd world.

Innova outdated. Meant for 3rd world.

My pick would be Exora CFE, or if you want smaller Alza. Though really I'd rather get a second hand conti. I did and am happy.

My mom doesn't often go above 90km/h so I guess floaty-ness wouldn't be an issue for her..

Seems like majority of LYN agrees that grand livina would be the best choice among the 3 listed

Just noticed the new Kia Rondo/Carens. Any idea when will it be released in Malaysia and what pricepoint? Looks pretty good in terms of design.

Also, I heard that korean cars are on par with their japanese rivals currently in terms of reliability. Is that true?

The Carens is competing with the VW Cross Touran in other country... So.. U can guess the price

Best fuel economy: surely not Innova! I think Livina would have the best FC. I own one (the 1.6ltr version) and so far can get about 13-14km/ltr combined city/highway where daily route going thru Tun Razak evening traffic jam.

Practicality: Innova would be the best since it's the most spacious and comfortable. Avanza should be the worst since it's the smallest and the most uncomfortable due to very bouncy ride.

Performance: would be the Innova since got the most powerful engine, but also consumes the most fuel. But if you get the Livina 1.8, it's not too shabby as well. I'm only using the 1.6 and already taken it to >170kph, pick up is also decent.

IMHO it's between Innova & Livina. Innova is more comfortable and powerful but also most expensive and most thirsty. Livina IMHO is good enough already, decent car all around. The Livina stability and handling is also I think the better of the 3 since it's the lowest chassis, and it's the easiest to control since it's FWD (it won't oversteer). The car is also smaller than Innova so should be a better transition for your mom from Avanza, as opposed to Innova which is a much bigger car than Avanza (unless your mom is also used to driving a rather big car). Maintenance is also pretty cheap. The only other good option for your mom after Avanza, I'd say is the Alza, way much better than Avanza while still using the same engine, but it's the smallest of the bunch.

IMHO all MPV are relatively floaty as they're not designed to go higher speeds anyway. Having said that I've taken the Livina to >170kph and I think not that bad. I've also driven it to Cameron highland (both routes) and Genting, and it handles decently around those twisty stuff as it's not that heavy. I think it's one of the better ones in terms of handling among the bunch of MPVs with Avanza being the worst.

As for the 3rd world thing, IMHO all of these MPVs including Exora are the same class anyway. Exora seems to offers the most but it's also the biggest one. I alos don't know the reliability of Proton cars (at least I trust Nissan & Toyota engines a lot more as they're already very well proven despite maybe older technology). The handling would also not be so responsive due to it's weight (similar to Innova). So the question is whether the mom is used to driving such big cars.
I agree though, that Alza might be the better option.

This post has been edited by 6UE5T: May 25 2013, 05:56 PM

my spine hurt when going over a normal speed bump *alza*

Wow, that's a long long reply.. Thanks for taking your time to give your reply..

Anyway the car that my mom drove before her first-gen Avanza was a first-gen Nissan Serena (1996 model I think), which was relatively large in size too (probably very similar in size to an Estima/Innova). So I don't think she would have any problems with a large car.

I agree that practicality wise, Innova would be the best since it's larger thus the space and passenger comfort would be much better.
And that Grand Livina would be better performance/handling wise since it's a smaller car..
I've read from somewhere on LYN before that the Innova can only deliver around 11-12km/L in city

Looks like Avanza is totally out of the question now. Options now narrowed down to Innova and Grand Livina only..

I noticed from the Toyota website that the air conditioning in the Innova is 1 air vent for each passenger whereas from the Nissan website it looks like the air conditioning vents are all only from the cockpit.. Is there a big difference between these 2 set-ups of both cars?

This post has been edited by YouDontKnowMyName: May 25 2013, 06:34 PM

Innova is the most comfortable and spacious for me. Still prefer the old look than the new facelift though

u know why? because majority did not own them. i own both avanza and livina.
the livina 3rd row only for storage as its very hassle to go behind.
besides, its too low for aunty who prefer mpv due to larger view ahead. ask your mom, she will know.
mine is the 1.8. the performance so so only. dont expect much from mpv and nissan lol. fc also worst than my avanza 1.5.
and worst of all, smallest cabin space of all 3 u mentioned.
remember, this is a mpv we are talking about. cabin play the major role here. follow by price, and performance/safety.

oh ya forget to add the avanza got second row aircond like your mom current avanza. in livina, the 3rd row barely got wind unless all vent focus behind lol

I prefer the facelift version. Looks very alike the 2012 Camry.. The front looks fierce

I do think that my mom would appreciate a high seating position and raised-up view of the road like in the Innova

So in your opinion, the grand livina as an MPV isn't as good as the competition in terms of space and practicality?

I wonder if the facelifted version of the Grand Livina coming late-2013 is any different than the current one

Any news of (hopefully) any redesigned/new model of Innova coming out soon?

This post has been edited by YouDontKnowMyName: May 25 2013, 07:21 PM

yes, the reason why most si lai prefer suv/mpv is because of the high positioning seating.
besides, the gear ratio in avanza makes traffic jam easier. livina more heavier feel.

innova does not worth the money at all. i've survey all the cars u mentioned and got the new 1.5 avanza S spec in the end.

one more thing. avanza is rear wheel drive. typically rwd vehicle is more robust than fwd.
before this avanza i own the first batch 1.3L avanza auto. no problem at all until i sold it and get back avanza

As for the length of the Innova... Length isn't everything

I can comfortably seat 7 adults in my Kangoo, despite the car being <4m. Actually my favourite seat in the car (apart from drivers seat) is in the 3rd row

I don't find it hard or scary to drive the Kangoo at 140-150 with one hand on the wheel. Due to the 1.4 with AT it won't drive faster.

Also I disagree with MPVs not being able to handle well at high speeds. The Touran easily does 180+. Won't feel it (I forgot that it had another gear, and the one I drove only had the old 1.9 diesel with 110+ HP). The Ford Galaxy is even better, a comfortable cruiser at 200. Relaxing even, despite having a comfort oriented suspension (the Touran is more sports car like). Of course different price class, but it can be done. And in base spec they are around RM 80k overseas. Considering that a Malaysian Touran that costs 166k or so would cost around 150-160k overseas... (It is a rather high spec car...)

This post has been edited by kadajawi: May 25 2013, 07:40 PM

stupid excise duty

That and having the gov fix car prices. VW and Ford etc. could probably offer cheaper cars IF they were allowed to. Simply remove the sun roof, offer more entry level engines, manual gearbox, smaller rims, no body kit, no HID, ... A J spec Touran if you will. Good for bringing you and your family around safely.

In terms of driving experience and comfort, has the new 2012 avanza improved when compared to the first gen avanza?

Innova getting 11-12km/ltr in city drive is very good already, probably too good to be true especially if got into some traffic jams.

For aircon, yeah Livina is not that good since it relies much on the front blower. It has a middle outlet at the bottom but not strong as you need to switch the aircon to blow also to your feet if you want the middle vent to get more cool air. So for passengers in the 3rd row, it will take a while for the cool air to get there. Middle row still not too bad. Aircon is one of the weakness of this car IMHO. The cooling coil is also not good quality (at least up to my version), but mine is already replaced under warranty when it leaked and after that no more issue. Btw Nissan already offers option to install middle blower at additional cost, so you can take this option if need to.

Oh I didn't know about that. thanks for the info

Malaysia weather so hot nowadays, kereta aircond tak cukup strong = no life liao

This post has been edited by YouDontKnowMyName: May 25 2013, 07:59 PM

Well as you said, totally different price range. Nothing is free I guess.
I still think the Livina has decent handling & stability for its' price, compared to the others.

Well I do own Livina and Avanza before. So yeah IMHO Livina still wins hands down to Avanza, I won't even think twice in saying that.

This post has been edited by 6UE5T: May 25 2013, 09:43 PM

You won not one, but two cars?!

Actually it isn't such a different price class. A bit higher, yes, but not that much. As I said, if comparing the same spec car our Cross Touran costs only maybe RM 10k more than it does in Germany. And since you can get a more entry level car for maybe RM 80k...

may i know what's your reason for choosing livina over avanza?

- Much more comfortable since it's not bouncing like the Avanza, and more quiet too.
- Much better handling on high speeds and during cornering since it's much lower ride height and wider. It feels more like a high station wagon instead of a tall MPV. If I drive the Avanza like I drive my Livina, I'd have flipped it many2 times over!
- I think Livina is a bit more spacious than Avanza.
- In my experience the Avanza is not that fuel efficient and the Livina is better FC with bigger engine and more torque too.
- Livina feels more solid as opposed to the Avanza which feels like a tin can!
- Finally the Livina is way2 much better looking car than Avanza, plus it has a lot more body kit options to make it look even better still!

So in my book, no contest really.

If want cheaper or prefer Toyota engine, better go with Alza than Avanza. It has the same engine, more spacious, better ride quality, better FC, much better look too, and much cheaper some more! Another no contest really!

Sorry meant to type "own" but got my sequence wrong! My regular typo mistake.

Well anyway I think the Livina do handle pretty stable at highway cruising. Even my wife has driven it up to 120kph only for me to tell her to slow down a bit! So yeah, for an MPV, it's not so bad in this aspect.

Avanza is almost like a car with very minimal boot space. Just it is registered to ferry 7 people that's all. Power wise ok only for the 1.5 version. But new Avanza very bumpy and floaty indeed, old version is almost the same but old one is nicer looking all round (hate new Avanza rear end). Rear aircond for 2 row but no third row.

Space wise Exora pawns all but FC and the ability to climb Genting is so so but I would say climbing Genting is a big no no for Exora. Sturdy on the road with it's 16" rims and massive brake disc for stopping power. 2nd and 3rd row aircond.

Innova is like Avanza's bigger brother with slightly more boot space with a massive 2.0 engine so no underpowered feeling.

If anyone who suggest Alza? Better not since sluggish for 1.5, no 2nd and 3rd row aircond, minimal boot space. There you go, building cars, people first.

If the new Avanza feels the same as the first-gen Avanza, then I guess it would be a big no-no since my mom always grumbles about how the car feels when she drives

about the same only. its the cheapest toyota afterall
but u have to do your own math la. cheapest livina auto around 90k while avanza is just 74k, thats like 16k differences.
it may be alot to big but poor family hence avanza is the bestest choice.
if u can simply afford more expensive car then go ahead, get it. but take note of what i have told u la.
or simply go test drive

If she wants a car that is nice to drive... come to the conti side, we have handling.

Didn't they mention in the Avanza thread that the new one is much more acceptable?

I think best is just test drive.

Also... some people here say women won't notice the differences in how a car handles? They won't care? Well, apparently some do.

the 2 bolded part not so true. avanza is definitely bigger, roomier than livina. fc is definitely better as well. as driven by my mom both cars..
sitting in mid section already can feel crampy

probably only going to go test drive those cars later this year when my dad is free

what for if good handling but keep going in workshop which is major deterrent by si lais?
for the budget, they definitely only can afford used conti mpv. and lets face the fact, conti does have more problem than japanis.
my dad used to own 1 merz c200 and 1 bmw 5 sili but both also more than 10 years ago la XD
enough reason to skip contis for the rest of his life and stick to japanis only nao

my dad prefer jap MPV because it has a proven reputation of being reliable.
My mom's first-gen Avanza is a good example. Almost 10 years and still running great

u sure 10 years? mine first batch avanza year 2005 only wor. now also 8 years je. juz changed to new one early this year

it's definitely only close to 10 years.. I don't really remember which year but I'm sure it's right when Avanza was released in Malaysia

All the car have follow up maintenance should be not much issue.

Livina 1.8G = more confort ride.
Avanza is most pumpy issue the rest is not much issue.
Innova slightly heavy and more comfortable, the only cant tahan of slightly heavy fuel than all here.

Over here if wanna ride as spacious and tall like SUV to be instead of innova at all.

If wanna ride faster and stylist with lowest from ground as sedan feel. The only go for Livina.

I guess we just have to agree to disagree on those.

Btw if want to buy Livina, there's already a facelift model in other countries, not sure when to arrive in Malaysia.

This post has been edited by 6UE5T: May 25 2013, 11:20 PM

The facelift got changes to the interior? I can't seem to find much info on it

It's already arrived in Indonesia, see it here:
http://www.modifikasi.com/showthread.php/4...na-di-Indonesia

IMHO proper maintenance is needed, but then a conti can be pretty reliable too. Especially newer ones. Of course if you are a cheapskate you'll ruin the car. Find and fix upcoming problems early on and you won't break down. My conti was 5 1/2 years old when I bought it, now it's 8. Never broke down (a flat battery once, but after a while it started again ). Yes, there is wear and tear, but that's to be expected, and I'm not exactly a gentle driver. Same with the other contis in the family. Relatively problem free cars. Not perfect, but nothing that would make me regret getting them. And I'm talking about French cars. The only way to be less reliable is to buy a Italian car.

Also it is not just good handling but also safety. What for good reliability if you'll die in a crash (that may be caused by someone else)?

The behind design looks very similar to the Kia Carens/Rondo imo

Hahaha, yeah that's especially because of the rear lights.

if jz only tis 3 choices, i'll go for livina

Avanza 1.5 needing ~3.1k rpm for 110km/h, the previous 1.3 is worse at 4k rpm, both definitely not a cruiser for me, short distance ~90km/h max should be fine.
Grand livina is not for fast acceleration, it mean for reasonable torque, normal drive won't need >2.5krpm, unless for fast acceleration. Avanza could have a closer ratio gear box for faster response.

If changing from old avanza to new avanza... i don't think it is worth doing so.

This post has been edited by Alan: May 26 2013, 12:59 PM

that's what i thought

the FC is decent for a car of that size right? also, bumpy and bouncy is it as bad as how the Avanza feels?

innova i think more to MPV
avanza is pretty much like riding a lorry

well, its a conti car opinion/statement, and its from u, so i'll take it with a pinch of salt.

Innova is not bad in terms of comfort and space, except that its a bit outdated, it's not very good looking and it's underpowered. Engine noise is very loud too.

Avanza can be very underpowered if fully loaded. And very bumpy as well.

Grand Livina is a better choice compared to the two others. Avoid the 1.6. But third row seats very cramp and not much legroom and the Interior is not very good looking.

I heard innova engine is same as the one found in toyota Hilux? not too sure about that.. can someone clarify?

Different. Innova's is a 2.0L VVT-I petrol, while Hilux is using 2.5 & 3.0 turbo diesel.

so which engine does the innova share with since its not the hilux

I'm not sure also. It seems that Innova is the only one using 1TR-FE.

I remember walking by a first-gen Innova some time ago in a parking lot.. The engine sounds alot like the one found on the Fortuner/Hilux.. Loud and noisy

This post has been edited by YouDontKnowMyName: May 26 2013, 03:55 PM

Exactly! It sounds like diesel. But it's petrol and its only an upgrade from the old Toyota Unser.

i believe since the TS has narrowed down the options between T and N, the choice is obvious: depends on what TS wants. Avanza and Innova are both ladder chassis type of vehicles where NGL is monocoque. Therefore if TS would like to get a vehicles to carry more loads, therefore T brand is the better choice. If comfort and not carry high loads that often, then NGL is the better choice. Monocoque car would have better FC compares to ladder chassis in general. Ladder chassis makes a car tougher than monocoque. Monocoque car more on performance where ladder chassis more on power. It is easier to incorporate crumpler zone into a monocoque car. As the concept mentions, it's easier to repair ladder chassis car's crumpler zone. It all depends on what TS wants for the car: performance, luxury, (more) sports everyday car to a commercial and heavy duty car.

Mostly the MPV is going to be used for regular everyday transport in city, only sometimes going to used to carry load

grand livina was my prime candidate for new car several months ago

i extensively test drove all the variants including the 1.8 auto,1.6 auto and manual, and x-gear

the biggest surprise for me is the manual 1.6

after trying all the auto variants, when finally located a second hand 1.6 manual version to test drive,i was completely astounded by how a transmission can totally change a car character (actually i always know this,by having family and friends who own a kelisa,myvi,vios,wira and waja in both tranny grant me many opportunity to compare)

the DOHC 1.6 non variable cam timing lumps on the 1.6 was just sooo willing to rev,powerful, very responsive and great engine sounds!
it totally transform my impression of livina being a little of pork car(auto variant) into a classical example of a good N/A engine car, not to mentioned the few manual livina owners here reporting added benefit of much superior gas mileage

if u able go manual,try it!

*just realized it was your mom's car,kindly omit my post if its not relevant

This post has been edited by Valentino46: May 27 2013, 06:13 AM

Livina 1.8L for city or 50% highway for claim the FC is around 10.6/L.

For innova from what I knew is pump Rm50 Ron 95 and clock less than 200km in city drive.

That's what you be concern about daily drive. Even Toyota SA said the car properly for 2nd car or use for highway a lot more

The overall innova is very nice car, if you don't mind about high FC should be better choice.

My 1.6AT Livina usually can average around 11-13kms/ltr combined city/highway on RON95. If drive mostly highway, then can reach 13-14kms/ltr.

My mother prefers driving manual too...

And yes, the gearbox makes a huge difference. Especially if the auto one only has got 4 speeds and is a torque converter. Those eat up some power. AMT and DSG are more efficient, but more problematic...

Hopefully the face-lifted grand livina will be equipped with cvt, which should be beneficial to TCSC also...

From our neighbor country of indo to be launch soon for facelift & come with CVT and new engine as well.

China also new equipment.

If they confirm change to CVT I think wil be most successful again in 1.6L used with CVT gearbox.

Bru,

Read this - Livina facelift launched in Indonesia.

We may get the same variants here.

No CVT for 1.8 but they a have new 1.5 model with CVT. Wonder will we get the 1.5 CVT here.