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 VR/AR HMD Club - Oculus Rift, HTC Vive, PS VR, HoloLens, Magic Leap, Windows MR

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danzzal
post Oct 5 2016, 09:25 PM

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QUOTE(hairuLeZ @ Oct 5 2016, 08:28 PM)
The waiting is killing me laugh.gif  Cant wait to exp this vive.

[attachmentid=7689908]
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How and where you bought that HTC VIVE? I was going to buy one too, but have no idea how to get one with the cheapest way. I only thought about Amazon and Borderlinx. It take forever for the headset to be released here, cannot wait already. icon_question.gif

This post has been edited by danzzal: Oct 5 2016, 09:28 PM
adilz
post Oct 5 2016, 11:06 PM

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QUOTE(stringfellow @ Oct 5 2016, 04:23 PM)
Oh man, you do know that the essence of gaming in VR is higher fps, right? Anything lower than 90, it'll be susceptible to make you sick. If you have access to a VR headset now, try pushing pCars under 90fps and see how you feel after that. It's the silky smoothness of your perception in VR that what makes VR works.

Some graphically intensive games like Adr1ft, in its earlier stage, makes people violently sick. Because the game constantly drop below the comfortable threshold limit of VR experience and turns you nauseous.

I'm firmly in the "higher res > higher fps" camp myself, but that only applies to static 2D plane gaming, not VR. Even losing your position in VR space, like when the sensors determining your position in 3D space starts acting up, that alone can make you sick. Try playing Samsung GearVR  with a phone that is overheating and watch the framerate spike up and down on that game, and see how you feel after that.

SteamVR (where your pCars lives) has set the comfortable limit of 90fps when using any VR headset. Any frame drop below that, it utilizes reprojection method to halve the frames down to 45fps while attempting to maintain smoothness. Think of it as V-Sync for VR. But pCars game engine is dynamic, the frames go up and down, and especially when you're trying to push that game to 4K, you are not gonna be able to maintain framerate stable enough not to make you sick. Even I myself had to drop settings to 1080p and Medium just to be able to play pCars somewhat comfortably on my rig.

If a VR game is static and no movement is present in that VR space, that not VR. That's like strapping a TV to your eyes. That's a HMD. HMDs like Vuzix or Sony's own HMZ series. Anything that requires rendering movement and position in VR, in order to have a comfortable experience in VR, must not drop below its said threshold. 90fps for Vive and Rift, 60fps for PSVR. And these are of lower resolution than your PiMAX, and even the most powerful rigs out there can barely keep up with that requirement. To take advantage of your PiMAX VR, running it at native 4K (well, split 4K at 1920x2160 each eye), if rigs connected to Vives and Rifts can barely cope, what do you think if the eventual outcome of your PiMAX?
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Ahaaa, thanks for the info the pCars. I did not know that if the fps drops below 90, the game will slash down to 45 fps. I thought I would be able to set it to v-sync 60 fps. My rig currently can do pCars 4K at 120-130 fps clear weather, 85-100 fps in storm weather, all settings max out, SMAA high except grass low. But since I only have 60 Hz 4K monitor, I only run my games with adaptive V-sync, which not a problem and I get 60 fps constantly, no drops. So I thought I could well get constant 60 fps 4K too if I get the Pimax. But now that you said, its either 90 fps or 45 fps, guess that would be a problem coz Pimax only runs 60 Hz. By the way, can you tell me if pCars supports SLI in VR mode?

I guess the motion sickness problem will be bad if fps goes up and down, but maybe it won't be that bad if can get constant 60 fps (some reviewers say, matter of getting used too).I don't know, coz never tried, but I think 60 Hz its okay too, since PSVR is 60 Hz. Anyway, I believe VR headset experience also depends on our biology, and how our body cope with motion sickness/ perception of movement. Some people can, some people just can't. Just like some people are perfectly fine sitting in boat pitching and yawing, while some just empties their stomach. Or like some have no problem enjoying the window view from inside a moving bus, some already holding a paper bag. And I have an example very close to me, my wife. While I can go through the full Avatar movie on my home 3D TV, my wife won't make it past 10 minutes with the 3D glasses on, and its LG passive 3D, think could be worst if active shutter type 3D. I can drive up 3-4 story high circular parking ramp at decent speed, she'll be complaining of dizziness after the 1st level.

The only thing stopping me from plonking on the Pimax is my confusion on its refresh rate. Says it runs 4K 60 Hz, but it only uses HDMI 1.4b. I thought we need HDMI 2.0 to run 4K@60 Hz???? If that confusion can be sorted out and it really can run 4K@60 Hz, I'm almost certainly plan to get one. And if I do, and start throwing up nasi and mee goreng on the floor, I'll share my experience.
hairuLeZ
post Oct 5 2016, 11:17 PM

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QUOTE(danzzal @ Oct 5 2016, 09:25 PM)
How and where you bought that HTC VIVE? I was going to buy one too, but have no idea how to get one with the cheapest way. I only thought about Amazon and Borderlinx. It take forever for the headset to be released here, cannot wait already.  icon_question.gif
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Thats exactly what i have done to get mine biggrin.gif
danzzal
post Oct 5 2016, 11:22 PM

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QUOTE(hairuLeZ @ Oct 5 2016, 11:17 PM)
Thats exactly what i have done to get mine biggrin.gif
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Oh really blink.gif ? They use DHL? Can tell how much the total cost? Do update when it's arrived thumbup.gif
stringfellow
post Oct 5 2016, 11:31 PM

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QUOTE(adilz @ Oct 5 2016, 11:06 PM)
Ahaaa, thanks for the info the pCars. I did not know that if the fps drops below 90, the game will slash down to 45 fps. I thought I would be able to set it to v-sync 60 fps. My rig currently can do pCars 4K at 120-130 fps clear weather, 85-100 fps in storm weather, all settings max out, SMAA high except grass low. But since I only have 60 Hz 4K monitor, I only run my games with adaptive V-sync, which not a problem and I get 60 fps constantly, no drops. So I thought I could well get constant 60 fps 4K too if I get the Pimax. But now that you said, its either 90 fps or 45 fps, guess that would be a problem coz Pimax only runs 60 Hz. By the way, can you tell me if pCars supports SLI in VR mode?

I guess the motion sickness problem will be bad if fps goes up and down, but maybe it won't be that bad if can get constant 60 fps (some reviewers say, matter of getting used too).I don't know, coz never tried, but  I think 60 Hz its okay too, since PSVR is 60 Hz. Anyway, I believe VR headset experience also depends on our biology, and how our body cope with motion sickness/ perception of movement. Some people can, some people just can't. Just like some people are perfectly fine sitting in boat pitching and yawing, while some just empties their stomach. Or like some have no problem enjoying the window view from inside a moving bus, some already holding a paper bag. And I have an example very close to me, my wife. While I can go through the full Avatar movie on my home 3D TV, my wife won't make it past 10 minutes with the 3D glasses on, and its LG passive 3D, think could be worst if active shutter type 3D. I can drive up 3-4 story high circular  parking ramp at decent speed, she'll be complaining of dizziness after the 1st level.

The only thing stopping me from plonking on the Pimax is my confusion on its refresh rate. Says it runs 4K 60 Hz, but it only uses HDMI 1.4b. I thought we need HDMI 2.0 to run 4K@60 Hz???? If that confusion can be sorted out and it really can run 4K@60 Hz, I'm almost certainly plan to get one. And if I do, and start throwing up nasi and mee goreng on the floor, I'll share my experience.
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It's totally different when it comes to VR. A game you can play on 2D plane monitor in 4K at triple digit fps, will buckle in VR. I used the worse case scenario in pCars: thunderstorm/heavy rain with full roster of cars in the race. I had to take off my Vive to avoid puking.

And HDMI1.4b can only do 4k30 IIRC, you need HDMI2.0 to do 4K60. It still doesn't matter in VR, as I can absolutely 100% guarantee that you cannot play pCars in VR at 4K without watching the framerate drop down to a screeching halt into single digit fps. It's imperceptible and tolerable in standard 2D plane gaming on a monitor, but with your perception that much closer in VR than when you're staring at a flat plane, it will be jarring.

I urge you if you can, try out a Vive or Oculus hands-on. Let's put it this way: my twin Titan X Pascals cant even do 1440p pCars in VR above 90fps on Vive or Oculus. And with so much time I've spent in VR, I can immediately notice when the VR engine switches to reprojection to compensate to low framerate. It's like those who're used to high fps and asked to move their mouse on their desktop at a monitor's 30hz refresh rate.

And for the record. Iron constitution here. I flew plane for a living, and my training includes aerobatics doing chandelles, barrel rolls and inverted flights. I live and breathe rollercoasters, and yet games like Adr1ft in its earlier stages dropped me to my knees. It literally made me sick for hours, with that tell-tale headache, like your eyes are gonna spill out of their sockets.

You wanna enjoy your VR experience, not fight the urge to rip the headset off.
adilz
post Oct 6 2016, 12:48 AM

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QUOTE(stringfellow @ Oct 5 2016, 11:31 PM)
Let's put it this way: my twin Titan X Pascals cant even do 1440p pCars in VR above 90fps on Vive or Oculus.
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Ha ha ha Damn. With my GTX 1080 SLI, I guess I better ask a snail to draw the images if I have Vive or Oculus. Thanks for the heads-up. Found Pimax forum here (http://forum.pimaxvr.com/c/site-feedback) and got some interesting info.

Answered my question on the HDMI 1.4b connection. So, while the Pimax does have a 4K LCD (forumers claim its from Igzo) running 60 Hz, the PC/ GPU side actually runs the game at 1080P@60Hz, and Pimax upscales it to 4K. No wonder feedback so far says the frames are decent to smooth even just using a single GTX 980 Ti. Coz the PC is only running 1080P. I guess the only time Pimax actually runs native 4K feed, it's in the movie mode, but running at 30 fps only.

Feedback too has been a mixed bag. But those buyers who already had CV1 or the Vive did commented that the Pimax visuals looks nicer because of the higher res (no SDE/ lens fresnel). Some claim running SteamVR with supersampling helped increase the quality a bit more. And some are trying to work on some software tool (chroma 4:2:0 subsampling which I dont understand) to force 4k@60 Hz or 1440p@60Hz over the hdmi 1.4b to Pimax.

I can't afford Vive or Oculus, and now that you said even your Titan X SLI is crying to churn out the fps in VR for Oculus and Vive, all the more reason I can't afford any of those 2. The Pimax at USD 349 with the headphone, still better than and cheaper then getting Samsung Gear VR with Samsung handphone. And that it only need to run the game at 1080P@60Hz in VR, which I think my GTX 1080 SLI should be able to cope well enough. We can have good laugh when if I puke.
kaiser_falco
post Oct 6 2016, 02:06 PM

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yeah will say that anything dip below 90fps = VR sickness. at current stage of graphic card its damn hard especially if you do the super sampling hack to maintain above 90fps.. the hack does work damn well the image is clearer and sharp but VR sickness also real thing.. first time when i did this i passed out for almost 3 hours...

stringfellow
post Oct 6 2016, 03:18 PM

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QUOTE(adilz @ Oct 6 2016, 12:48 AM)
Ha ha ha Damn. With my GTX 1080 SLI, I guess I better ask a snail to draw the images if I have Vive or Oculus. Thanks for the heads-up. Found Pimax forum here (http://forum.pimaxvr.com/c/site-feedback) and got some interesting info.

Answered my question on the HDMI 1.4b connection. So, while the Pimax does have a 4K LCD (forumers claim its from Igzo) running 60 Hz, the PC/ GPU side actually runs the game at 1080P@60Hz, and Pimax upscales it to 4K. No wonder feedback so far says the frames are decent to smooth even just using a single GTX 980 Ti. Coz the PC is only running 1080P. I guess the only time Pimax actually runs native 4K feed, it's in the movie mode, but running at 30 fps only.

Feedback too has been a mixed bag. But those buyers who already had CV1 or the Vive did commented that the Pimax visuals looks nicer because of the higher res (no SDE/ lens fresnel). Some claim running SteamVR with supersampling helped increase the quality a bit more. And some are trying to work on some software  tool (chroma 4:2:0 subsampling which I dont understand) to force 4k@60 Hz or 1440p@60Hz over the hdmi 1.4b to Pimax.

I can't afford Vive or Oculus, and now that you said even your Titan X SLI is crying to churn out the fps in VR for Oculus and Vive, all the more reason I can't afford any of those 2. The Pimax at USD 349 with the headphone, still better than and cheaper then getting Samsung Gear VR with Samsung handphone. And that it only need to run the game at 1080P@60Hz in VR, which I think my GTX 1080 SLI should be able to cope well enough. We can have good laugh when if I puke.
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If you do puke, same rule applies as when you about to go on rollercoasters: dont go on it on an empty stomach. Muntah angin is no joke, and if you kena that while touring a theme park, your whole day will be ruined. Don't go in on a full stomach either, that's like serving a full cup of coffee to the brim of the cup waiting to spill. Just have something and hope for the best.
MK84
post Oct 7 2016, 05:45 AM

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As expected, Oculus Touch retails for $199. But if you want to do room scale with no occlusion, you'll need a third camera for $79.
stringfellow
post Oct 7 2016, 02:08 PM

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QUOTE(MK84 @ Oct 7 2016, 05:45 AM)


As expected, Oculus Touch retails for $199. But if you want to do room scale with no occlusion, you'll need a third camera for $79.
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It looked like it's standing room only. The presenter didn't move or require space around to move.
adilz
post Oct 7 2016, 04:17 PM

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QUOTE(stringfellow @ Oct 6 2016, 03:18 PM)
If you do puke, same rule applies as when you about to go on rollercoasters: dont go on it on an empty stomach. Muntah angin is no joke, and if you kena that while touring a theme park, your whole day will be ruined. Don't go in on a full stomach either, that's like serving a full cup of coffee to the brim of the cup waiting to spill. Just have something and hope for the best.
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ha ha ha maybe I'll stock up on seasickness pills.
kaiser_falco
post Oct 7 2016, 06:42 PM

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QUOTE(adilz @ Oct 7 2016, 04:17 PM)
ha ha ha maybe I'll stock up on seasickness pills.
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not sure if its gonna work or not.. its slightly different feeling a bit then motion sickness..vr sickness is much worse.. if low fps just took you max about 30 second to feel it..and if you continue..its a death wish hahaha..

TS881118
post Oct 10 2016, 12:31 AM

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Oculus Touch promo video
TS881118
post Oct 10 2016, 12:32 AM

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Next Oculus prototype - Santa Cruz?
kianweic
post Oct 11 2016, 06:48 AM

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kianweic
post Oct 11 2016, 07:35 PM

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GTA V - Virtual Reality?


kianweic
post Oct 14 2016, 07:03 AM

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Jaroque
post Oct 14 2016, 03:05 PM

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Hi guys! Wanted to get an Oculus Rift unit, however im not sure how to get it sent to Malaysia...since its not in the list of Add To Cart. Any of you manage to bring it in and mind sharing to me how?
stringfellow
post Oct 14 2016, 05:34 PM

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QUOTE(Jaroque @ Oct 14 2016, 03:05 PM)
Hi guys! Wanted to get an Oculus Rift unit, however im not sure how to get it sent to Malaysia...since its not in the list of Add To Cart. Any of you manage to bring it in and mind sharing to me how?
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Forwarding service. Borderlinx.
MK84
post Oct 15 2016, 03:06 AM

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QUOTE(Jaroque @ Oct 14 2016, 03:05 PM)
Hi guys! Wanted to get an Oculus Rift unit, however im not sure how to get it sent to Malaysia...since its not in the list of Add To Cart. Any of you manage to bring it in and mind sharing to me how?
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