Because my pocket is more important than your pocket.

Remove all kinds of petrol subsidies. that should sum up to roughly RM2B if my memory is still right. reduce the amount of tax that's equivalent to that for cars. cap the bank loans at 5 years. well, easier said then done.

Easy. Toyota can't offer the Prius at the tax free price. If they would do it, they may as well stop selling their other cars. And since they probably have a hard time churning out enough Priuses... I think if they are forced to sell it at a lower profit, they would rather not import it. Doesn't make sense for them. That Audi actually did it is mind blowing, I'm not sure what they were smoking, but I think I'd like to try that shit. But their cars are priced further apart, so there is more wiggle room. Toyota and Honda don't have that.

Basing the taxes on how safe, efficient and clean the car is would make more sense, with hybrids getting the biggest tax cuts, while other models would also get tax cuts. Not having fuel subsidies instead would make the most sense.

Though actually, that would be against my interest. I don't want to change my car, and it's a thirsty car.

play around with product pricing and watch your future business roadmap thrown out the window...

Like I said in paultan. This will be a very long reply...sorry. You only need to understand this once.

Car sales will be like normal-car prices gradually slash-by not much. Lets say that 20-30% removed over 5 years. You will not feel it immediately as newer models of the same make will go up with each model (except for the VW Golf Mk 7 which is the same price mk6-mk7). Price goes up with inflation. Unavoidable. So gomen remove that 20-30%, so the newer model will actually cost about the same as the model it replaces.

It is actually worse in UK. I've been there 7 years.
Car cheap. Petrol £1.40/liter with the gomen there increase petrol prices twice every year by few pence. Then, labour, parts cost expensive. That is why people there, normal service all DIY. Even change broken light also DIY. This is because normal service ~£300. Over here RM300. Our labour is cheap. Who the hell wants to pay RM1.5k for routine service. Also, in UK, there is a 20% VAT on almost every item you buy. However, in UK you can survive with public transport alone. Cannot be done here.

We actually have it way better compared to them. Sure car expensive, but our purchasing power was never big to begin with. £1 = RM4.7x. Rafizi's statement is a populist move. Can be done, but gomen need to be ultra efficient/no corruption. Even if PR come in, Bank Negara will step in if budgets not balanced. PR wants to balance both cashflow and make cars cheap the same time.

Even if PR come in, Proton will survive. There are more than 10k people working in Proton. They have family members. Overall you got at least 30k people working from parts to SC. If you close Proton, who are going to give them jobs. 30k is a lot of people that can vote. Plus that with their sedara mara, any gomen that comes in cannot just close shop.

Rather than wishing "Proton Just Die" better bring in people like DSZ. DSZ was going somewhere. Now it is DRB's problem. Problem is, my sources inside Proton now a lot quit, DRB has a ruthless culture. That is why you see Proton Motorsports fb and Gomen fb website have opening places for Proton. I think I saw that last week. At least 30 vacant places, including senior level jobs. If you are qualified, better apply there. At least now you can help make it better rather than just talk: "Proton just die".

For the next 5 years, maybe current BN can copy the PR manifesto, say we will abolish 70% tax, after increasing fuel price, GST. Bank Negara as the safekeeper non-political organisation will make sure that if car taxes are removed, the nation does not go bankrupt. If PR comes in, and Bank Negara does not agree, the 70% will not be done. Bank Negara already come out with a ruling to for car purchase. Loan based on NET income, not GROSS income. This is done to protect the Malaysian consumer in order not to be in too much debt.

So, a cikgu sekolah, can no longer buy a RM300k Merc/BMW based on the Gross income of RM3k but must minus expenses. So now can only qualify at most a RM 70k car.

Bank Negara also needs to monitor cash outflow, currency levels, attack against currency (forex speculation), market trends. That is why, even though the gomen banyak hutang, as long as the hutang is done in RM, gomen will never go bankrupt. If Malaysia hutang China with RM, Malaysia will never be out of pocket, because Bank Negara can just print more money. The problem is when Malaysia hutang in €, $, £. Now, Malaysia cannot just go print those currencies. Most easy example: Go wiki Hyperinflation, specifically Zimbabwe. That country kena hentam kaw-kaw by UK (mostly) and forex traders, currency worthless-but the country is still working. In fact, if you noticed, from 1 bil Zimbabwe : 1usd, now 10k zimbabwe : 1 USD. That currency fluctuates too much for it to be considered stable. Once Zimbabwe currency is in freefall, the forex traders will buy it back. So the currency will have value again.

This is the same problem faced when Malaysia economic crisis. Tun M go ask people to spend. Logic behind this is if money is not circulated, it is worthless. You got money, simpan under bantal, it does not generate income. At least money in bank, bank can use for investment. Using money during an economic crisis to buy stuff actually is one method to make currency stable. Other methods include devaluing currency. Right now, if you notice, RM is quite strong against USD, GBP, but our currency is actually pegged by Bank Negara. Bank Negara now primarily follows the China Renmibi. I think it is at RM1 : 2 Renmibi or somewhere there. USD not a stable currency to peg on. Renmibi is artificially devalued. US, UK all dah ask China to increase currency. The economic crisis in UK, US is partly caused by China. China keeping its currency worthless, so outflow of currency from UK, US as they import China made items. Now China use it to buy gold reserves, and not importing stuff from UK/US block. So what happens is you see the Mat salleh so poor now. The € currency so bad. China also use the money to develop stuff inside its country, further alienating the Mat sallehs.

Bank Negara sees this, and decides, we will follow China at a 2:1 ratio. Why 2:1? It seems that Malaysia's manufacturing/output/export capacity is worth twice as much as China. That is in simple terms. So we are worth twice compared to China labour. Also, it protects the RM from the Forex speculators quite nicely. So you see that even though our RM: Renmibi may change, it will not be drastic. Of course, we based the currency on the gold reserves, but Bank Negara kind of binned that idea after our currency was attacked. Go wiki Malaysia currency. Malaysia was a key player in Forex exchange. Before the econ crisis, the country was the top 5 player in world currency manipulation. That was how maintained RM value.

If we followed DSAI, borrow IMF, Malaysia will surrender its RM sovereignty to a foreign body. IMF will bail out the country, but RM will no longer ours to control. See the € now. Its more of Germany dominating currency against Greece, Spain, Ireland, Italy, Cyprus. Those countries kna tibai with Germany. Why Germany ok, the rest KO? Germany is a net exporter. IT makes stuff people want to buy. VW AG, BMW AG, Merc AG, all from Germany. China also want German cars don't want some Cherry.

The problem with not borrowing from IMF: our RM reserves was wiped out. More like the Forex speculation Malaysia was happily doing before got wiped off. IMF, and matsalleh say currency pegging is cheating. Actually it is sort of cheating. That time RM was pegged to USD at rate of 1USD: RM4, then lowered to RM 3.8, then RM3.5. After that we pegged to Renmibi. That is why now you see we have better currency to USD/GBP. I went to UK at a time when £1 was RM 7.2. Now it is RM 4.7. Before crisis it was RM 3.8 (best). How is this pegging possible? By controlling outflow of RM. That is why, if you got kids studying overseas, you want to hantar more than RM10k, need to get Bank Negara approval.

I suspect that the US/UK currency will devalue more and Malaysia will remain relatively stable with China. The matsalehs UK/EU/US cannot do anything with China. China allows daily currency trade. At the end of the day, the currency resets to a rate determined by the central bank. Also, China already bought USD 20 trillion of US bonds, at least. That time when USD was before crisis. That Meryl Lynch, Lehman Brothers crisis. Now, China is buying up all the gold it can get. Your wedding ring included. Last I read, China has the 6th highest gold reserves in the world. 1st - still US. Within 20 years, the gold reserves should be on par or surpass US.

So, how is this related to cars?
A lot. RM strength determines how much you pay for the overseas car. Will not matter a thing if you buy Proton. Its local, so foreign exchange means nothing. A stronger RM will allow Proton to source parts at a cheaper price based on exchange rates. Higher RM value=cheaper BMW. Recently, Japan devalued its Yen because its car, even PS3/Nintendo cost too much to make in Japan for it to make a profit overseas. This was allowed by the G8 which Japan was in. Japan purposely devalued its currency in order to make its exports more attractive. If not, it cannot compete with Koreans/China. What does this mean to the Jap people, they noticed that in order to stay competitive, take a currency hit. So making currency worth less, means they need more Yen to import that BMW. Also, the cost of daily goods goes up, if its imported.

So before you hentam the gomen, say UK cheap cars. UK people are paying the price for free trade. The rich people in UK are not affected. Even middle class, slightly affected. Those poor people in UK are worse hit. Oh, about that 70% tax thing. That is just a method used to balanced the prices. Rakyat dok complain memanjang, nanti gomen buat like UK terus ada yang kecut perut. Put GST, let petrol prices be determined by market value. Soon, you will need insurance to enter hospital in Malaysia. Malaysia has one of the best healthcare in the world. Go google UN report. In 2015, there will be no places for Doctors. No automatic places. Need to take test. We have reached developed world status on Doctor:population ratio.

The well off will be ok. The middle class will become the just above poverty level, and those worse off will be merempat if the gomen totally lepas tangan like UK/US. Not subsidising eggs, flour, oil, and essential foods.

This is not my view. This is the world economy.

This post has been edited by mystvearn: May 8 2013, 11:48 AM

one of the best reads this morning!

For me I'm living in m'sia.

For my own car still can last until died.

For my petrol price still can keep remain as Rm1.9 per litre it is very good new to me.

Once the car price to be when down, but the petrol price to be increase as double up, that's really worst to be life's with exp paying the petrol price, that is my big concern.

How bout your? Imported car like Toyota Wish 1.8L brand new and sell here for Rm80k and the petrol price per litre as Rm3.80 it is worth to have a car?

About proton : Need to partner with others to survive and develop. Malaysia is too small to fund the it. Suck money in instead of circulate within country/leak out of the country.
About gov : why heavy tax then subsidise petrol? Like put money inside gov pocket (for invest/earn interest) then only vomit back to buyer through pertrol subsidy. Those who travel less, get less. Also safety features are compromised.
About currency : US/china has less impact as they can survive without import, their agriculture/food supply is strong enough to supply their own. Malaysia now seems neither importer nor exporter, rice/vegetables/or even fish import from asean countries. The best exporting goods are still palm oil/petrol (which direct beneficial to cooperation/stake holders). Now vietnam coming up with "cheaper labour". So need to further devalue the currency for "cheaper labour"? There left only 7y to 2020.. lets see how the curreny and "transformasi" work out.

I don't buy it. Look at Honda: Insight, Jazz Hybrid CBU and the normal Jazz sold in the same RM90k-RM100k bracket of it's bestselling Honda City.

What does Toyota has in that price range? Vios and Altis? If the Prius was priced around RM100k, that's a bit more reasonable (Still with a fat profit margin).

But RM140k? C'mon!

another point to consider, there are major assembly plants in malaysia simply because to get cheaper tax assembling cars here

but if CBU cars were as cheap, then whats the point of keeping the assembly plants operating, might as well close it. so even more people are affected, jobs, suppliers, supply chains

actually u can assemble the car in malaysia and still pay the same tax...
assembling in malaysia don't meant u get lower tax...

+1

Just like u buka kilang in malaysia. Is the car manufacture benefit from the tax only. Not we the purchaser benefit pun. We buy the car still kena tax lo...

UMW tauke sez : dude, i put 100k malaysia will buy, i put 140k also malaysia will buy.because im toyota mahh, malaysia will buy. u want say wat? toyota can put whatever price toyota wants cause in the end guess what?
malaysia will buy!!

By importing all the parts? Kinda defeats the purpose of CKD isn't it?

yes but lower costs allow them to offer lower pricings even if taxes are the same.

but if you were given a ckd and cbu at same price, knowing our local quality i will choose cbu always.

The Prius C is 20k above the Vios, the Prius something like 20k or so above the Altis? That the better equipped hybrid is more expensive than the regular car is acceptable.

Also, I don't think Honda's hybrids are quite as good as Toyota's.

@mystvearn:
The governments in Europe usually doesn't raise petrol prices, the petrol prices go up as the crude oil prices go up. There may be tax hikes once in a while, but usually it is just because oil is getting more expensive. We don't feel those increasing prices because the government is subsidizing petrol depending on how much it costs.

I believe car parts are taxed more than those 20% here... car parts tend to be much cheaper in Europe (despite the high taxes) than they are in Malaysia. Labour though is indeed very expensive. Here it is maybe 80-90% for the parts, rest is labour. There it is 30% for the parts, rest is labour.

Yes, if car prices would go down so would the length of loans. Usually 3 years is the most, maybe 5 years you can get in Europe (AFAIK). So while you may have to spend less on a car you'll have to pay it off faster. But IMHO that's fine. People who still want it can save money first before buying the car (which is more sensible IMHO).

Germany is also doing fine by forcing those bailed out countries to buy their products. Why, during the crisis, did Greek have to buy the war ships it had ordered from Germany earlier? What does it need them for? They need to save money, right? Yet Germany forced them to buy and pay for these ships...

As for the healthcare sector I believe a big part of it is that it belongs to the government, which can run it non-profit. (Not sure if it is done that way, but surely less for-profit than Europe or worse yet the US). In the US a big part of the costs is insurance for doctors in case they screw up and get sued. Medicine is expensive because the pharmaceutical companies can charge as much as they want to. If the government is strong enough it can force them to charge lower prices or even copy medicine. The latter happened in India recently.

Anyway, I think it would be best for people if CERTAIN cars are made more affordable. By that I mean safe B segment cars and maybe safe MPVs, also a requirement are not so good performance but good fuel consumption. Basically if it is a luxury thing, pay for it. If it is necessary to get you safe to work, bring your family around safely, then it should be affordable. Petrol prices will have to rise accordingly, though maybe with less corruption that effect may not be so strong.

Actually, it's not acceptable for me. Hybrids are tax-exempted, Vios and Altis are not. we are supposed to get them cheap, that was the whole point of FIT.

For example, the tax-free Prius C should be priced the same as the taxed Vios E. If the better-equipped Prius C is taxed the same as the Vios, only then the RM20k difference is acceptable.

The reason I brought up Honda was not to argue their hybrid's quality/reliability (their hybrids are also overpriced, CKD Jazz hybrid is a vucking joke), but to illustrate that Toyota CAN price their CBU hybrids near to their petrol-drinking line ups, as Honda did, without sacrificing the sales of their best-selling model. Honda sold a hybrid C-sedan alongside a hybrid B-sedan at almost the same price!!

As many have said, it is due to the endless greed on UMW's part. What if FIT is lifted next year? will the Prius C be sold at RM120k? UMW must be daydreaming to think people will still buy that.....Oh wait, this is Malaysia.

This post has been edited by dares: May 8 2013, 12:32 PM