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> Consumer Rights - True Fitness, Signed up membership caused CTOS

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TSjbanya
post May 1 2013, 12:40 AM, updated 5y ago

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In the last quarter of 2007, I invited by a consultant Mr Lim, who represent True Fitness to visit their fitness centre at Sri Hartamas through a call. He promotes a 2 years membership package to enjoy up to 3 years fitness service in their centre, but I insist to subscript monthly renewal basis although I know the price is higher than 2 years package.

Lim is a new staff in the outlet, there is a manager next to him while he presents the product to me, the manager told me they accept monthly renewal membership, and asked me to sign up the membership agreement that day itself.

I noticed the membership contract is for 24 months and I pointed it immediately, but he said the agreement is the only contract's format that they have in the company, all members signed the same agreement regardless you are monthly or package.

I asked if I could cancel my membership anytime in within 24 months, he answered “YES”, which I just have to inform my consultant when I want to terminate. I forgot how much is the membership but I paid for 2 months (Deposit + First month membership Fees)

5 weeks later, I NEVER STEP IN True Fitness due to my busy schedule, I really don't have time for gym (if check with their attendance record, can track that I never use their facilities since I joined). I call to Mr. Lim and told him I'm going to terminate my membership and tell him the reason, unfortunately he resigned.

They still charge my membership fees from credit card, although I have called to centre to terminate my membership, they seem ignore my request.

A month later my card was stolen, the following month I received a call from True Fitness, the lady asked about my payment. I explained to her about my story but she said her responsible is to chase for the payment, not to help me to terminate membership contract.

Anyway, they continuous call for several months and my answers the same.

9th Dec 2008, I received an email from True Fitness Credit Control Department asked me to settle the sums of RM1956.15. I replied to the email and complaint about their unprofessional business ethics to consumer. They didn't reply my email from then.

Recently I apply for housing loan but rejected by bank, the reason is I am under CTOS and lawsuit by True Fitness.

1) The staff that represents True Fitness given fault info on the membership can terminate anytime as long as I inform my consultant. (Denied everything the moment I call, where is the right to redress?)

2) The staff that represents True Fitness agreed on my membership is monthly renewal basis although the agreement is for 2 years contract. (Mislead consumer, where is the right to be informed?)

3) The staff that represents True Fitness, who calls for payment, doesn’t have intention to attend my complaint and only know to push responsible. (Where is the right to be heard?)

4) I never use their facilities and yet, they asked me to settle RM1956.15, and caused me in CTOS. (Where is the right to safety?)

So may I know, am I force to pay them even though I did not enjoy any of the services they provide, with the CTOS that they caused me?


This post has been edited by jbanya: May 1 2013, 01:01 AM
TSjbanya
post May 1 2013, 12:45 AM

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Admin, forgive me if I post this topic in wrong place smile.gif
chiahau
post May 1 2013, 02:32 AM

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QUOTE(jbanya @ May 1 2013, 12:40 AM)
In the last quarter of 2007, I invited by a consultant Mr Lim, who represent True Fitness to visit their fitness centre at Sri Hartamas through a call. He promotes a 2 years membership package to enjoy up to 3 years fitness service in their centre, but I insist to subscript monthly renewal basis although I know the price is higher than 2 years package.

Lim is a new staff in the outlet, there is a manager next to him while he presents the product to me, the manager told me they accept monthly renewal membership, and asked me to sign up the membership agreement that day itself.

I noticed the membership contract is for 24 months and I pointed it immediately, but he said the agreement is the only contract's format that they have in the company, all members signed the same agreement regardless you are monthly or package. 

I asked if I could cancel my membership anytime in within 24 months, he answered “YES”, which I just have to inform my consultant when I want to terminate. I forgot how much is the membership but I paid for 2 months (Deposit + First month membership Fees)

5 weeks later, I NEVER STEP IN True Fitness due to my busy schedule, I really don't have time for gym (if check with their attendance record, can track that I never use their facilities since I joined).  I call to Mr. Lim and told him I'm going to terminate my membership and tell him the reason, unfortunately he resigned.

They still charge my membership fees from credit card, although I have called to centre to terminate my membership, they seem ignore my request.

A month later my card was stolen, the following month I received a call from True Fitness, the lady asked about my payment. I explained to her about my story but she said her responsible is to chase for the payment, not to help me to terminate membership contract.

Anyway, they continuous call for several months and my answers the same.

9th Dec 2008, I received an email from True Fitness Credit Control Department asked me to settle the sums of RM1956.15. I replied to the email and complaint about their unprofessional business ethics to consumer.  They didn't reply my email from then.

Recently I apply for housing loan but rejected by bank, the reason is I am under CTOS and lawsuit by True Fitness.

1) The staff that represents True Fitness given fault info on the membership can terminate anytime as long as I inform my consultant. (Denied everything the moment I call, where is the right to redress?)

2) The staff that represents True Fitness agreed on my membership is monthly renewal basis although the agreement is for 2 years contract. (Mislead consumer, where is the right to be informed?)

3) The staff that represents True Fitness, who calls for payment, doesn’t have intention to attend my complaint and only know to push responsible. (Where is the right to be heard?)

4) I never use their facilities and yet, they asked me to settle RM1956.15, and caused me in CTOS. (Where is the right to safety?)

So may I know, am I force to pay them even though I did not enjoy any of the services they provide, with the CTOS that they caused me?

*
Speaking from a legal background ( Personal opinion, professional opinion, please refer to a lawyer that specialize in such cases )

The issue here is you did not terminate the contract with something tangible, such as letter or email or something, even though the agent told you, you could do so anytime you want. Furthermore, the contract they asked you to sign is legally binding, and if you signed it willingly, whatever stated on the contract might be upheld by the court of law. Regardless, you may argue that the contract was not as promised and you reserve the right to challenge it.

2nd issue is, since there's no termination, you are considered as "an active member" of the gym and is subjected to the annual fees stated by the agreement.

Even if you pay them the outstanding amount, CTOS will remain there. I guess, this is the darker side of the credit rating system in Malaysia.

Best alternative is to fight the case through court and trying to overturn your case so that CTOS can be removed from your history of credit ratings. Thou IIRC, CTOS can't be eliminated by any normal means, it would stay on as a dark stain in your credit history....

This post has been edited by chiahau: May 1 2013, 02:52 AM
TSjbanya
post May 1 2013, 02:52 AM

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QUOTE(chiahau @ May 1 2013, 02:32 AM)
Speaking from a legal background ( Personal opinion, professional opinion, please refer to a lawyer )

The issue here is you did not terminate the contract, even though the agent told you, you could do so anytime you want. Furthermore, the contract they asked you to sign is legally binding, and if you signed it willingly, whatever stated on the contract might be upheld by the court of law. Regardless, you may argue that the contract was not as promised and you reserve the right to challenge it.

2nd issue is, since there's no termination, you are considered as "an active member" of the gym and is subjected to the annual fees stated by the agreement.

Even if you pay them the outstanding amount, CTOS will remain there. I guess, this is the darker side of the credit rating system in Malaysia.
*
I able to found Mr. Lim (Through engine search from Facebook) LMAO!
I inbox him and asked him to write me a letter to proof that my story is true. I will print out my CTOS and attached with email conversation + his letter to see what can I do from here. Between, as it's years back but I remember once I replied them an email (mid of 2008) while they asked for payment again, I got replied that I want to cancel my membership; problems is that account been hacked and many conversation deleted. I only found the latest which Dec 2008.
TSjbanya
post May 1 2013, 02:55 AM

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QUOTE(chiahau @ May 1 2013, 02:32 AM)
Speaking from a legal background ( Personal opinion, professional opinion, please refer to a lawyer that specialize in such cases )

The issue here is you did not terminate the contract with something tangible, such as letter or email or something, even though the agent told you, you could do so anytime you want. Furthermore, the contract they asked you to sign is legally binding, and if you signed it willingly, whatever stated on the contract might be upheld by the court of law. Regardless, you may argue that the contract was not as promised and you reserve the right to challenge it.

2nd issue is, since there's no termination, you are considered as "an active member" of the gym and is subjected to the annual fees stated by the agreement.

Even if you pay them the outstanding amount, CTOS will remain there. I guess, this is the darker side of the credit rating system in Malaysia.

Best alternative is to fight the case through court and trying to overturn your case so that CTOS can be removed from your history of credit ratings. Thou IIRC, CTOS can't be eliminated by any normal means, it would stay on as a dark stain in your credit history....
*
Between, is not that I don't want to terminate my membership, is their staffs avoid to help me to do the termination. They intentionally to SCAM cry.gif
chiahau
post May 1 2013, 02:57 AM

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QUOTE(jbanya @ May 1 2013, 02:52 AM)
I able to found Mr. Lim (Through engine search from Facebook) LMAO!
I inbox him and asked him to write me a letter to proof that my story is true. I will print out my CTOS and attached with email conversation + his letter to see what can I do from here. Between, as it's years back but I remember once I replied them an email (mid of 2008) while they asked for payment again, I got replied that I want to cancel my membership; problems is that account been hacked and many conversation deleted. I only found the latest which Dec 2008.
*
You should subpoena him in court to testify for you tongue.gif

CTOS is a very troublesome matter. 1 of my friend even got CTOS due to Celcom broadband zzz. Took him ages to settle the case and get the CTOS overturned....

Anyways, you should really consult with a legal adviser to confirm your position in this case.

If it's proven to be fraudulent/wrongful charges, I reckon you can even get back at them for causing such a trouble anyways hmm.gif
mechanicalKB
post May 1 2013, 02:58 AM

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Unfortunately when it comes to CTOS, it is almost forever - meaning if you have a bad rating in it - it follows you badly for the rest of your 'loan borrowing' years. Malaysia malaysia... what to do?
TSjbanya
post May 1 2013, 03:03 AM

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QUOTE(chiahau @ May 1 2013, 02:57 AM)
You should subpoena him in court to testify for you  tongue.gif

CTOS is a very troublesome matter. 1 of my friend even got CTOS due to Celcom broadband zzz. Took him ages to settle the case and get the CTOS overturned....

Anyways, you should really consult with a legal adviser to confirm your position in this case.

If it's proven to be fraudulent/wrongful charges, I reckon you can even get back at them for causing such a trouble anyways  hmm.gif
*
Yes, thank GOD I found this before my bf filing the K1 visa, if I noticed this CTOS during my interview I may banned by the immigration!
and the property that I aiming, price increasing, I missed the boat just because of this stupid misleading membership!! That's my first time and the last time I sign for fitness membership. Is really nightmares to me.
chiahau
post May 1 2013, 03:07 AM

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QUOTE(jbanya @ May 1 2013, 03:03 AM)
Yes, thank GOD I found this before my bf filing the K1 visa, if I noticed this CTOS during my interview I may banned by the immigration!
and the property that I aiming, price increasing, I missed the boat just because of this stupid misleading membership!! That's my first time and the last time I sign for fitness membership. Is really nightmares to me.
*
Visa are unlikely to be issued for anyone with a "bleep" on their radar. hmm.gif

Anyways, the issue is not with you nor fitness institute. It's bound to happen with poor Malaysian laws and little to none enforcement.

Always be very sure to know what you are getting yourself into. That's just all tbh.

Since you are sure that this is the Fitness's center's fault, feel free to challenge your case.

Good luck.
danny_sp15
post May 1 2013, 09:16 AM

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always heard of this fitness centres scams. how come no one is monitoring their activity.
TSjbanya
post May 1 2013, 12:11 PM

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QUOTE(danny_sp15 @ May 1 2013, 09:16 AM)
always heard of this fitness centres scams. how come no one is monitoring their activity.
*
I wrote into National Consumer Complaints Centre (NCCC) and hope it's help.
TSjbanya
post May 1 2013, 12:11 PM

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QUOTE(mechanicalKB @ May 1 2013, 02:58 AM)
Unfortunately when it comes to CTOS, it is almost forever - meaning if you have a bad rating in it - it follows you badly for the rest of your 'loan borrowing' years. Malaysia malaysia... what to do?
*
Even with police report? In this case, shall I make a police report first? On scam?
fsloke
post May 1 2013, 12:24 PM

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I think you need to pay RM1956.15 in full.

There no way to fight back the TF.
- You and TF signed an agreement for 2 years contract.
- Card lost is own responsibility to report to TF.
- there not related whether you step in to the gym or not - FYI: TF actually have a per entry package. When you entered the gym they will punch your card.

TF tried to avoid any black and white email.
TF prefer you come to the branch to settle down all those thing on spot.

I advised you go to the branch and settle down with the new sales manager.
chiahau
post May 1 2013, 12:27 PM

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I think the issue would be regarding the CTOS.

Even if TS paid the outstanding debt, her name would still be in CTOS, no?

I think she wants to remove herself from CTOS to be eligible for loans n etc IINM
TSjbanya
post May 1 2013, 05:33 PM

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QUOTE(fsloke @ May 1 2013, 12:24 PM)
I think you need to pay RM1956.15 in full.

There no way to fight back the TF.
- You and TF signed an agreement for 2 years contract.
- Card lost is own responsibility to report to TF.
- there not related whether you step in to the gym or not - FYI: TF actually have a per entry package. When you entered the gym they will punch your card.

TF tried to avoid any black and white email.
TF prefer you come to the branch to settle down all those thing on spot.

I advised you go to the branch and settle down with the new sales manager.
*
Yes, able to contacted Mr. Lim and he will write me letter to proof my words is true and the "Misleading" part can help me a lot especially I have pass this case to National Consumer Complaints Centre (NCCC). The problem for TF is their turnover pretty fast, those who I spoke all left... I have write-in evidence on my termination by email (from my side my account been hacked so cannot find any) [Legally, black & white is the most important as long as I have already informed them by send in black & white]. Problem is they don't want to accept my case, which they not allowed me to terminate my membership that time. It's scam. [misleading consumer purchase, and not allowed us withdraw membership unless you found a replace]

This post has been edited by jbanya: May 1 2013, 05:34 PM
fsloke
post May 2 2013, 09:50 AM

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For your information.

Most of the TF member who want to quit the gym normally take below step:
1. Freeze the account
2. Sell the membership through online (sell = transfer member ship. )

Transfer membership is allow with reason. Example work in other state.
GameFr3ak
post May 2 2013, 02:24 PM

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Speaking from my own experience for a similar issue with Streamyx.

I'll make it short. I studied in TARC, I subscribed streamyx, after using the line for a year, I decided to move. The new place doesn't have streamyx port availability yet, need to wait for a year or so until they build new exchange with more ports.

Silly and naive me moved out to the new place, and did not terminate my streamyx. I thought since I'll need to have them move my address to the new one might as well do it when the ports are available.

So thinking that after 2 months of nonpayment, they'll block my account and stop billing me. Yeah, this is what they didn't do. I was billed for around 9 months. The bill racked up to RM800 or so.

So when the port is available (after 9 months or so), I'm shocked that I was billed for RM800. I panicked (as I'm still a student), I ignored the letters and stuff. Ended up using my housemate's name for the new streamyx line.

So ever since then, I've always receive rude calls from debt collecting agents. Even though I explained the situation to them and asked them to check the system for my usage (they can) and it's obvious that I'm not using it. I received the same response like you did, that the agent is only tasked for collecting debt, not to support me.

After 3 years or so, I feddup already. Decided to file a complain to the consumer afair. Within a week or so, they waived my bill and no more calls since.

This post has been edited by GameFr3ak: May 2 2013, 02:25 PM
TSjbanya
post May 2 2013, 10:14 PM

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QUOTE(GameFr3ak @ May 2 2013, 02:24 PM)
Speaking from my own experience for a similar issue with Streamyx.

I'll make it short. I studied in TARC, I subscribed streamyx, after using the line for a year, I decided to move. The new place doesn't have streamyx port availability yet, need to wait for a year or so until they build new exchange with more ports.

Silly and naive me moved out to the new place, and did not terminate my streamyx. I thought since I'll need to have them move my address to the new one might as well do it when the ports are available.

So thinking that after 2 months of nonpayment, they'll block my account and stop billing me. Yeah, this is what they didn't do. I was billed for around 9 months. The bill racked up to RM800 or so.

So when the port is available (after 9 months or so), I'm shocked that I was billed for RM800. I panicked (as I'm still a student), I ignored the letters and stuff. Ended up using my housemate's name for the new streamyx line.

So ever since then, I've always receive rude calls from debt collecting agents. Even though I explained the situation to them and asked them to check the system for my usage (they can) and it's obvious that I'm not using it. I received the same response like you did, that the agent is only tasked for collecting debt, not to support me.

After 3 years or so, I feddup already. Decided to file a complain to the consumer afair. Within a week or so, they waived my bill and no more calls since.
*
Can you please teach me on the step by step for complain on consumer afair?
I didn't ignored, in fact, I call to consultant (but he resigned asked me call to branch); I then call to the outlet, and the manager told me I cannot terminate. I told him that "you are the one who said ok and now you said cannot?" (have a very unhappy discussion and argument from then I didn't call him);
I got write in email said their service bad and rude and I want to terminate my membership and then provide them my ID no and also my account no (I forgot where is the document since this happen 2007). BUT, they didnt take any action, nobody reply me, nobody talk to me... The credit control who call me is direct under TF, not debts collector, as the girl did email me with truefitness email address (but the girl also resigned alrd).

I got keep the last email conversation (account been hacked and all info and contacts gone but luckily they can still contact me with that account and I hv changed password).

Anyway, I am waiting for Mr Lim's letter and I really need your help on this matter...
MY fiance going to send me document for K1 visa, I may hv problem to get approval if CTOS still there (and I am not going to pay is not bcoz I dont hv money, but I wont tolerant scammer's tactic in business!)
If I compromise, means I am encouraging them to continue to do the same. I willing to pay higher legal fees than put up my white flag to scammer.
TSjbanya
post May 2 2013, 10:28 PM

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QUOTE(GameFr3ak @ May 2 2013, 02:24 PM)
Speaking from my own experience for a similar issue with Streamyx.

I'll make it short. I studied in TARC, I subscribed streamyx, after using the line for a year, I decided to move. The new place doesn't have streamyx port availability yet, need to wait for a year or so until they build new exchange with more ports.

Silly and naive me moved out to the new place, and did not terminate my streamyx. I thought since I'll need to have them move my address to the new one might as well do it when the ports are available.

So thinking that after 2 months of nonpayment, they'll block my account and stop billing me. Yeah, this is what they didn't do. I was billed for around 9 months. The bill racked up to RM800 or so.

So when the port is available (after 9 months or so), I'm shocked that I was billed for RM800. I panicked (as I'm still a student), I ignored the letters and stuff. Ended up using my housemate's name for the new streamyx line.

So ever since then, I've always receive rude calls from debt collecting agents. Even though I explained the situation to them and asked them to check the system for my usage (they can) and it's obvious that I'm not using it. I received the same response like you did, that the agent is only tasked for collecting debt, not to support me.

After 3 years or so, I feddup already. Decided to file a complain to the consumer afair. Within a week or so, they waived my bill and no more calls since.
*
Between, do you signed any contract? and did they lawsuit you till CTOS?
GameFr3ak
post May 2 2013, 11:04 PM

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QUOTE(jbanya @ May 2 2013, 10:14 PM)
Can you please teach me on the step by step for complain on consumer afair?
I didn't ignored, in fact, I call to consultant (but he resigned asked me call to branch); I then call to the outlet, and the manager told me I cannot terminate. I told him that "you are the one who said ok and now you said cannot?"  (have a very unhappy discussion and argument from then I didn't call him);
I got write in email said their service bad and rude and I want to terminate my membership and then provide them my ID no and also my account no (I forgot where is the document since this happen 2007). BUT, they didnt take any action, nobody reply me, nobody talk to me... The credit control who call me is direct under TF, not debts collector, as the girl did email me with truefitness email address (but the girl also resigned alrd).

I got keep the last email conversation (account been hacked and all info and contacts gone but luckily they can still contact me with that account and I hv changed password).

Anyway, I am waiting for Mr Lim's letter and I really need your help on this matter...
MY fiance going to send me document for K1 visa, I may hv problem to get approval if CTOS still there (and I am not going to pay is not bcoz I dont hv money, but I wont tolerant scammer's tactic in business!)
If I compromise, means I am encouraging them to continue to do the same. I willing to pay higher legal fees than put up my white flag to scammer.
*
QUOTE(jbanya @ May 2 2013, 10:28 PM)
Between, do you signed any contract? and did they lawsuit you till CTOS?
*
Sorry, I actually complained to SKMM. You could try NATIONAL CONSUMER COMPLAINTS CENTRE (NCCC).

I did signed a contract but that was when I subscribed for streamyx. The contract was voided after 1 year. And no, they did not went to the extend of having CTOS. But they did sent multiple lawyer letters though.

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