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 Hong Leong Assuarance Cash Promise, worth to invest?

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andrewleewaikeong
post Nov 12 2013, 06:25 PM

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QUOTE(justaregularjoe @ Nov 12 2013, 02:37 PM)
insurance savings usually have lock up period, if u withdrawn between these period than you incurred loses or maybe 'earn less'

i rather u invest in something like Allianz Investment-link policy, it is like buying shares, but much mroe stable growth! Besides you'll have some life protection!
*
Exactly .
smartinvestor01
post Nov 12 2013, 10:25 PM

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QUOTE(freedombuddy @ Apr 18 2013, 12:10 AM)
Hi all,

I was approached by a friend to sign up a savings investment plan from Hong Leong Assurance called Cash Promise.

Basically you have to save a minimum RM6000 each year for 6 years without withdrawal if possible.
For example, if you save RM10,000 every year, there is a guaranteed yearly income of RM2020 and cash dividend of RM 202 each year.
You can withdraw the money anytime after 6 years.

The plan sounds very good.
Is this a scam or is that possible that HL Assurance not paying you when you want to withdraw all out after 6 years?
*
I am a pure investor so i am against any investment-linked or any investment plan with insurance.

Its that i dont really trust such investment cum protection schemes..

However, if we are looking for more protection, we should be looking at medical cards, at the same time optimize our investments in purely investment vehicles...


KateL
post Nov 19 2013, 09:14 AM

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If you don't take out any money, how much will you get at the end of 20 years if you put in 10,000 a year?

This post has been edited by KateL: Nov 19 2013, 09:16 AM
lrm8888
post Nov 23 2013, 01:58 PM

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i was approach on the saving plan too and this is my understanding:

1) lock down is 6 years only (not 20 years). meaning you will get back your full endownment at year 7

2) there will be a compound interest of 5.25% on unredrawn "guarantee income"

so some simple calculation of RM60,000 for 15 years (which mean RM10k per year for the HLA saving plan for 6 years):

if put in Bank with 3.2% FD inetrest = RM28,654 (interest only)

if put in HLA with RM2k guarantee income a year + compound interest of 5.25%) = RM46,286

i'm no expert, just a simple calculation. i may be wrong

This post has been edited by lrm8888: Nov 23 2013, 01:58 PM
ExpZero
post Nov 23 2013, 03:05 PM

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QUOTE(lrm8888 @ Nov 23 2013, 01:58 PM)
i was approach on the saving plan too and this is my understanding:

1) lock down is 6 years only (not 20 years). meaning you will get back your full endownment at year 7

2) there will be a compound interest of 5.25% on unredrawn "guarantee income"

so some simple calculation of RM60,000 for 15 years (which mean RM10k per year for the HLA saving plan for 6 years):

if put in Bank with 3.2% FD inetrest = RM28,654 (interest only)

if put in HLA with RM2k guarantee income a year + compound interest of 5.25%) = RM46,286

i'm no expert, just a simple calculation. i may be wrong
*
It's advisible to get official full quotation to calculate IRR for surrender early / maturity.
cherroy
post Nov 24 2013, 11:29 AM

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QUOTE(lrm8888 @ Nov 23 2013, 01:58 PM)
i was approach on the saving plan too and this is my understanding:

1) lock down is 6 years only (not 20 years). meaning you will get back your full endownment at year 7

2) there will be a compound interest of 5.25% on unredrawn "guarantee income"

so some simple calculation of RM60,000 for 15 years (which mean RM10k per year for the HLA saving plan for 6 years):

if put in Bank with 3.2% FD inetrest = RM28,654 (interest only)

if put in HLA with RM2k guarantee income a year + compound interest of 5.25%) = RM46,286

i'm no expert, just a simple calculation. i may be wrong
*
1) Huh? it is a 6 years endowment/ saving plan or 15 years?
2k income per year, only get back Rm12k, how can be claimed get back full at year 7? (already commit 60K in the first place)

2) 5.25% is a guaranteed figure?

If the 2K unredrawn, then how to back the statement 1)? (get back full at year 7)
If drawn, then no 5.25% already, where get interest to compare to FD.

Many contradicting statement within. rclxub.gif

lrm8888
post Nov 24 2013, 03:22 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Nov 24 2013, 11:29 AM)
1) Huh? it is a 6 years endowment/ saving plan or 15 years?
2k income per year, only get back Rm12k, how can be claimed get back full at year 7?  (already commit 60K in the first place)

2) 5.25% is a guaranteed figure?

If the 2K unredrawn, then how to back the statement 1)? (get back full at year 7)
If drawn, then no 5.25% already, where get interest to compare to FD.

Many contradicting statement within.  rclxub.gif
*
OK, either i misunderstand the word "endowment" or you are

1) my understanding of endowment means the amount you have to pay, in this case you need to pay 6 years only but the contract will expire in 25 years. In a very simple meaning with illustration:

year 1 to 6, you pay RM10k a year.
Year 7 to 25 you don't have a pay anything

i do a simple calculation up to 15 years, you can try to do up to 25 years if you want.

2) Get back full endowment means you get back your full Rm60k upon you surrendering your contract. Meaning if you cancel your contract on year 7, you will get RM60k + RM12k + compound interest (if you did not withdraw the RM2k per year)

3) 5.25% guarantee? no idea, the agent said is guarantee but i would like to see it in black and white before i can confirm this

4) your question: "If the 2K unredrawn, then how to back the statement 1)? (get back full at year 7)" like i said, either you are confuse with the definition of endowment or i am. RM2k is what HLA call "guarantee income", what you pay to HLA is call "endowment", 5.25% is call "compound interest" and there are many other terms HLA used. Again, as explain in my answer 2 above. To get back RM60k on year 7 you have to "SURRENDER" your contract.

5) yes if you withdraw the RM2k then you won't have the compound interest. I thought i did express it that i based on unwithdrawn amount in my original calculation.

I seriously think you are very confuse with the terms used in HLA. ExpZero got my points and advise me accordingly, which i have to thank him/her and i did follow his/her advice smile.gif

As for you my friend, this is the best i can answer, if you still don't get it then i don't think i can further express my points in writting. Sorry.

This post has been edited by lrm8888: Nov 24 2013, 03:25 PM
cherroy
post Nov 24 2013, 05:01 PM

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QUOTE(lrm8888 @ Nov 24 2013, 03:22 PM)
OK, either i misunderstand the word "endowment" or you are

1) my understanding of endowment means the amount you have to pay, in this case you need to pay 6 years only but the contract will expire in 25 years. In a very simple meaning with illustration:

year 1 to 6, you pay RM10k a year.
Year 7 to 25 you don't have a pay anything

i do a simple calculation up to 15 years, you can try to do up to 25 years if you want.

2) Get back full endowment means you get back your full Rm60k upon you surrendering your contract. Meaning if you cancel your contract on year 7, you will get RM60k + RM12k + compound interest (if you did not withdraw the RM2k per year)

3) 5.25% guarantee? no idea, the agent said is guarantee but i would like to see it in black and white before i can confirm this

4) your question: "If the 2K unredrawn, then how to back the statement 1)? (get back full at year 7)" like i said, either you are confuse with the definition of endowment or i am. RM2k is what HLA call "guarantee income", what you pay to HLA is call "endowment", 5.25% is call "compound interest" and there are many other terms HLA used. Again, as explain in my answer 2 above. To get back RM60k on year 7 you have to "SURRENDER" your contract.

5) yes if you withdraw the RM2k then you won't have the compound interest. I thought i did express it that i based on unwithdrawn amount in my original calculation.

I seriously think you are very confuse with the terms used in HLA. ExpZero got my points and advise me accordingly, which i have to thank him/her and i did follow his/her advice smile.gif

As for you my friend, this is the best i can answer, if you still don't get it then i don't think i can further express my points in writting. Sorry.
*
2) You seriously think that with premature cancellation after 6th year, aka premature cancellation at 7th years, you get back 60K + 12K + compounded interest, after fork out 10k each year for 6 years?

Good luck.

Please read the official quotation or calculation on policy premature surrender guaranteed value figure.
lrm8888
post Nov 24 2013, 05:54 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Nov 24 2013, 05:01 PM)
2) You seriously think that with premature cancellation after 6th year, aka premature cancellation at 7th years, you get back 60K + 12K + compounded interest, after fork out 10k each year for 6 years?

Good luck.

Please read the official quotation or calculation on policy premature surrender guaranteed value figure.
*
hahahaha...like i said you still don't get what i meant. Since my 1st post, i said it is my personal calculation from my understanding after discussion with the agent. i also put there (at the last para) "i'm no expert, just a simple calculation. i may be wrong"

i have called the agent (as per ExpZero advised) to ask the agent to provide me the actual calculation and i told him that i want the calculation to be form part of the contract (if i agreed to proceed).

anyway thanks for the advice.

by the way, did you by any chance approach by any HLA agent on this? if not how do you know my point 2 is totally not true? kindly care to explain? maybe you know something that the rest of us do not know? but i do hope that unless you read the contract before on this latest product, no point making assumption based on the old products. i think everyone here knows that old products will take more than 10 years to generate better return than bank FD interest.

also, i only know the advantage of the new product...i have no idea what's the disadvantage of it and i don't think my agent going to explain even if i ask?

This post has been edited by lrm8888: Nov 24 2013, 06:05 PM
JohnL77
post Nov 25 2013, 03:48 PM

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QUOTE(lrm8888 @ Nov 24 2013, 05:54 PM)
hahahaha...like i said you still don't get what i meant. Since my 1st post, i said it is my personal calculation from my understanding after discussion with the agent. i also put there (at the last para) "i'm no expert, just a simple calculation. i may be wrong"

i have called the agent (as per ExpZero advised) to ask the agent to provide me the actual calculation and i told him that i want the calculation to be form part of the contract (if i agreed to proceed).

anyway thanks for the advice.

by the way, did you by any chance approach by any HLA agent on this? if not how do you know my point 2 is totally not true? kindly care to explain? maybe you know something that the rest of us do not know? but i do hope that unless you read the contract before on this latest product, no point making assumption based on the old products. i think everyone here knows that old products will take more than 10 years to generate better return than bank FD interest.

also, i only know the advantage of the new product...i have no idea what's the disadvantage of it and i don't think my agent going to explain even if i ask?
*
You need to get a projection from the agent and look at the actual cash value. "Guaranteed" vs "Non-guaranteed". Normally you won't breakeven at the 6th or 7th year if that's how long they give you to pay your premiums. They pay their agent's commissions, administrative fee, etc, first.

Don't listen to the agent, look at the projections and calculate the annualized return. http://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/annual-return.asp. And remember, projections are only projections.


Ex-HLA agent.

This post has been edited by JohnL77: Nov 25 2013, 06:58 PM
JohnL77
post Nov 25 2013, 06:57 PM

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Pffff that HLA AGENT didn't reply after boldly claiming 7%?
JohnL77
post Nov 25 2013, 07:45 PM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ May 11 2013, 10:33 PM)
Forced savings?

bwhahaha.. pardon me, brought back a flood of memories from bullkaka-ing insurance agents from yester-years.
my "forced savings" for 12years+ came up to be less than 5%pa CAGR... and that was DURING KLSE's GOLD BULL RUN (80s) with FD rates hitting a high of 12%-13% for 1 year's tenure.  doh.gif
seriously.. "forced savings" should be forced in FD until one finds better things to do with the $, unless one is as stupid as me during when i was 19.

BTW, those days no Internet, nor forums, nor plentiful of personal financial planning books/magazines, thus  people nowadays should be smarter UNLESS they CHOOSE to be lazy & stupid right? sweat.gif
Just a thought  notworthy.gif
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They call it forced savings because they pay their agents, other staff, themselves first, hahaha. Have you seen the kind of paid for vacations their top agents get to go to? All while you enjoy bad service from them. There is one insurance company that doesn't have email. Just want to change payment method also have to fax them.

Without discipline, even if it is "forced savings", I bet you they will still surrender the policy and make a loss. Imagine in a downturn and the projections for your policy get worse, and you really need the money, so you cash in... Wow.....

"BTW, those days no Internet, nor forums, nor plentiful of personal financial planning books/magazines, thus people nowadays should be smarter UNLESS they CHOOSE to be lazy & stupid right?"

That is the problem with Authority. People who don't know anything, will look up to these so called "financial planners". So many of them without CFP (Certified Financial Planner) calling themselves financial planners. So many high school graduates don't know anything about finance wanna plan their own finances using your money.

This post has been edited by JohnL77: Nov 25 2013, 07:50 PM
lrm8888
post Nov 26 2013, 01:52 PM

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QUOTE(JohnL77 @ Nov 25 2013, 03:48 PM)
You need to get a projection from the agent and look at the actual cash value. "Guaranteed" vs "Non-guaranteed". Normally you won't breakeven at the 6th or 7th year if that's how long they give you to pay your premiums. They pay their agent's commissions, administrative fee, etc, first.

Don't listen to the agent, look at the projections and calculate the annualized return. http://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/annual-return.asp. And remember, projections are only projections.
Ex-HLA agent.
*
Hi, thanks for the advice. i finally got the calculation sheet from the agent. well, it is not as flowery as the agent claims, after looking at the the surrender section and i did some comparison how much i can earn from FD vs the surrender value (year on year basis)...after 15 years, if based on best case secnario, Cash Promise is RM2k better than FD but for the worst case scenario FD is RM8k better than Cash Promise blink.gif

well, it seems like this is worst than HLA Cash Builder???

anyway, i have decided to let it go, if i can't get a better saving rate on the 15 years than no point going for it.
SUSPink Spider
post Nov 26 2013, 02:03 PM

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QUOTE(lrm8888 @ Nov 26 2013, 01:52 PM)
Hi, thanks for the advice. i finally got the calculation sheet from the agent. well, it is not as flowery as the agent claims, after looking at the the surrender section and i did some comparison how much i can earn from FD vs the surrender value (year on year basis)...after 15 years, if based on best case secnario, Cash Promise is RM2k better than FD but for the worst case scenario FD is RM8k better than Cash Promise  blink.gif

well, it seems like this is worst than HLA Cash Builder???

anyway, i have decided to let it go, if i can't get a better saving rate on the 15 years than no point going for it.
*
Told ya, ALL savings plans are a waste of time doh.gif
cherroy
post Nov 26 2013, 03:16 PM

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QUOTE(lrm8888 @ Nov 26 2013, 01:52 PM)
Hi, thanks for the advice. i finally got the calculation sheet from the agent. well, it is not as flowery as the agent claims, after looking at the the surrender section and i did some comparison how much i can earn from FD vs the surrender value (year on year basis)...after 15 years, if based on best case secnario, Cash Promise is RM2k better than FD but for the worst case scenario FD is RM8k better than Cash Promise  blink.gif

well, it seems like this is worst than HLA Cash Builder???

anyway, i have decided to let it go, if i can't get a better saving rate on the 15 years than no point going for it.
*
Since you have the calculation sheet, then please share with us, how much the guaranteed surrender value after 7th years.
Ty.

After "lock" in 60K, then 15 years later, based on best scenario, saving plan is 2K better than FD, and worst case scenario if 8K worst?
A worthwhile for 15 years wait?
ShinG3e
post Nov 26 2013, 03:47 PM

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dear fellow friends,

let's just have a moment of understanding that any plan that sounds nice must have a catch behind.

it's a normal marketing gimmick to attract people to invest in their products.

but honestly, saving plan... MEH.
JohnL77
post Nov 26 2013, 04:53 PM

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QUOTE(lrm8888 @ Nov 26 2013, 01:52 PM)
Hi, thanks for the advice. i finally got the calculation sheet from the agent. well, it is not as flowery as the agent claims, after looking at the the surrender section and i did some comparison how much i can earn from FD vs the surrender value (year on year basis)...after 15 years, if based on best case secnario, Cash Promise is RM2k better than FD but for the worst case scenario FD is RM8k better than Cash Promise  blink.gif

well, it seems like this is worst than HLA Cash Builder???

anyway, i have decided to let it go, if i can't get a better saving rate on the 15 years than no point going for it.
*
Agree with cherroy, if possible please share the projection sheet. I might have some lying around, but that is for very old Wealth Builder.

If you practice asset allocation, this kind of plan is not good for rebalancing, because when time to buy cheap assets, your money is tied up.

This post has been edited by JohnL77: Nov 26 2013, 04:55 PM
lrm8888
post Nov 27 2013, 10:34 AM

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user posted image
user posted image

ok, here it is...not sure if i'm doing it properly, hope you guys can see the image...lol...

anyway, if for 15 years, FD is at says 3% per annum then at RM60k i'll get RM93,478 (interest + principle). comparing to the sheet that the HLA agnet provided to me, 15 years total surrender value (see (6)) is only at RM95k or RM76k

This post has been edited by lrm8888: Nov 27 2013, 10:41 AM
cherroy
post Nov 27 2013, 11:18 AM

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QUOTE(lrm8888 @ Nov 27 2013, 10:34 AM)
ok, here it is...not sure if i'm doing it properly, hope you guys can see the image...lol...

anyway, if for 15 years, FD is at says 3% per annum then at RM60k i'll get RM93,478 (interest + principle). comparing to the sheet that the HLA agnet provided to me, 15 years total surrender value (see (6)) is only at RM95k or RM76k
*
Ty for the sharing.

So after 7 years the surrender value based on better/worst scenario projection (which included cash dividend which is non-guaranteed) is

60,272 or 55,591.

So the statement below is not true.
QUOTE
2) Get back full endowment means you get back your full Rm60k upon you surrendering your contract. Meaning if you cancel your contract on year 7, you will get RM60k + RM12k + compound interest (if you did not withdraw the RM2k per year)


This post has been edited by cherroy: Nov 27 2013, 11:19 AM
JohnL77
post Nov 27 2013, 10:54 PM

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QUOTE(lrm8888 @ Nov 27 2013, 10:34 AM)
user posted image
user posted image

ok, here it is...not sure if i'm doing it properly, hope you guys can see the image...lol...

anyway, if for 15 years, FD is at says 3% per annum then at RM60k i'll get RM93,478 (interest + principle). comparing to the sheet that the HLA agnet provided to me, 15 years total surrender value (see (6)) is only at RM95k or RM76k
*
smile.gif

I thought this should be pinned somewhere, but they have a disclaimer saying not to be circulated. Wonder if they'll take legal action?

Best part is your surrender value before you pay off the premiums. This is why the way they sell is completely wrong. You are signing a contract to pay 60k of premiums. "Savings plan" konon.

The death benefit is only 7.6 times the money you pay. And it shrinks every year until at the end, they are only giving you back your own money with some small pittance if you die.

This post has been edited by JohnL77: Nov 28 2013, 01:13 AM

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