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 What is plasticizer, omg, why my tubing changed colour?

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TSinfernoaswen
post Jul 30 2013, 04:32 PM

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QUOTE(azilazwa @ Jul 30 2013, 09:25 AM)
This is my Durelene tubing after around 2-3 months of using. Dont know weather it is plasticizer or what. I'm using distilled water + mayhem pure silver.

user posted image
user posted image
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Looks more like tubing yellowing instead of plasticizer. Plasticizer you will be able to remove white substance from inside the tube when its dried. Try to scrub inside of the tube & see if any white substance can come out or not.

I have durelene & primo in my loop atm, still clear or at least thats what it looks like with the red dye. Later I'll try to post some pictures up. As for your case, try to wash the tube in hot water then leave it to dry. When doing tests, the durelene did turn slight cloudy as I posted before in this thread but after leaving it to dry for a day, it turned clear back. So try doing that & see if it works.
azilazwa
post Jul 31 2013, 08:36 AM

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QUOTE(infernoaswen @ Jul 30 2013, 04:32 PM)
Looks more like tubing yellowing instead of plasticizer. Plasticizer you will be able to remove white substance from inside the tube when its dried. Try to scrub inside of the tube & see if any white substance can come out or not.

I have durelene & primo in my loop atm, still clear or at least thats what it looks like with the red dye. Later I'll try to post some pictures up. As for your case, try to wash the tube in hot water then leave it to dry. When doing tests, the durelene did turn slight cloudy as I posted before in this thread but after leaving it to dry for a day, it turned clear back. So try doing that & see if it works.
*
Just dissembled my loop. Will try what you suggest. Then i'll post it here. I suspect it is algae.. sweat.gif
TSinfernoaswen
post Aug 16 2013, 03:43 AM

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Update: Test done with primochill advanced lrt tubing

I used the same testing method like previously, 2 tests. First at ~45deg & another at ~90degs sealed in a flask, but this time I left the tubing in the water for 24hours instead of 12hours.

Test @ ~45degs:

user posted image

After drying up for 1day:

user posted image

So we can see the same pattern like durelene tubing. First it turns cloudy but after drying it goes back all crystal clear.

user posted image

Left is new tubing & right is the one that just dried up.

Test @ ~90degs:

user posted image

This test clouds the tubing at insane amount, its like I just bought a white colour tubing.

user posted image

After drying up, we can definitely see some interesting results.

user posted image

Seems like there is white plasticizer powder forming inside & outside of the tubing. You can see I did wipe some of it outside of the tubing.

user posted image

I guess when you run your loop, plasticizer will form inside part of the tubing only so I clean all that white powder at the outter layer, so this is a comparison between a clear tubing & the slightly plasticized tubing

user posted image

Its definatly plasticizer alright, because I used a screwdriver to wipe the inner part & as you can see it can be easily wiped out. I am quite disappointed with primochill new tubing though. I was lead to believe this tubing was the solution to the plasticizer issue, since so many users claimed to have been using it with no problems but its not with my case. I like the tubing though, quite hard to bend therefore less chances of kinking. You might argue that I didnt use sys prep to clean the tubing first. Well check out the tubing that was running in my loop for few weeks, i did flush that with sys prep but there is definitely some plasticizer going on with the tubing in my loop too.

I am not surprised though with those who claim it not to plasticizer, because by judging at the tubing its not that bad. Just slight plasticizer so when you are running your coloured loop, its probably hard to notice if it clouded or not. I admit, even when my loop was running I didnt realize this until I drained my loop because I had to RMA my gpu. Thats when I got surprised & decided to do this test tongue.gif I thought the culprit was durelene because I mixed primo with durelene but seems like thats not the case. Primochill is very rigid though, although durelene seems to be the best performing tubing in terms of plasticizer but its super soft. You can easily kink that tubing with tight loop unlike primochill.

I will replace all that primochill tubing with new ones that I have spare laying around. After this I am going full on acrylic tubing, no more plasticizer! Also take note that at 45degs the tubing was still clear so maybe there is a point in between 90degs & 45degs that the tubing will start leaching out plasticizer. Unfortunately I dont have the proper equipment to get that precise temps so this will do. Take note though that my loop temps in my rig was around 60degs when on load so maybe if you can keep your loop temps lower than this then you might not get affected with this issue. Its something to test about I guess smile.gif

user posted image

This post has been edited by infernoaswen: Aug 16 2013, 03:51 AM
rackas
post Aug 29 2013, 11:28 AM

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You speak very good, very helpful to me
BuckRoger
post Oct 11 2013, 01:28 AM

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Very interesting thread & very informative... smile.gif.

1 questions :
Could it be, because the reaction of water & material of tube itself??
As Distilled water can be any kind of water that has been vaporized and collected, leaving behind any solid residues, including minerals. Distilled water has no minerals in it at all and thus acts as a chelator by attracting whatever mineral it touches to satisfy it needs, Water is actually a living things.
Pardon me if im wrong... Ph is only to check on how acidic the water is, nt to check the mineral contain in the water..
I mean would it b the same if we using different type of water instead distilled water.
The well known reason why not mineral water is because of algae.. Aint we have silver coil & cooper to get rid of algae??

Silver: This element has been known for centuries as an effective bacteria and virus killer. Silver sulphadiazine is the standard antibacterial treatment for burns and open wounds, and silver nitrate is used to protect the eyes of newborns. Some activated carbon filters for drinking water purification are impregnated with silver to prevent bacterial buildup. Silver is also used in drinking water treatment by airlines and passenger ships.

The National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) designed a silver ionization system for its Apollo flights. The Johnson Space Center developed an electrolytic silver ion generator weighing only 9 ounces, requiring minimal power and no astronaut monitoring. Installed in the potable water supply and wastewater systems, the device would dispense silver ions to eliminate bacteria and viruses.

Copper: Copper is also now recognized as one of the best algae killers, and oxides and sulfates of copper are used in pesticides, algaecides and fungicides. Pool stores sell copper-based algaecide to kill black algae, the toughest of all.

Ions affect cell walls
When copper and silver ions and nanoparticles are released into water, these cations (positively charged) are a potent microbicide. These ions bond with negatively charged areas on the microorganism’s cell walls, affecting cell wall permeability and minimizing the intake of life-sustaining nutrients.

Inside an algae cell, copper and silver attack sulfur-containing amino acid radicals in the proteins used for photosynthesis. Photosynthesis and reproductive processes are blocked, leading to cell lysis (disintegration) and death.

This post has been edited by BuckRoger: Oct 11 2013, 01:46 AM
pristine
post Oct 11 2013, 07:35 PM

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omg double post. need to chg mouse. :x

This post has been edited by pristine: Oct 11 2013, 07:35 PM
pristine
post Oct 11 2013, 07:35 PM

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QUOTE(BuckRoger @ Oct 11 2013, 01:28 AM)
Very interesting thread & very informative... smile.gif.

1 questions :
Could it be, because the reaction of water & material of tube itself??
As Distilled water can be any kind of water that has been vaporized and collected, leaving behind any solid residues, including minerals. Distilled water has no minerals in it at all and thus acts as a chelator by attracting whatever mineral it touches to satisfy it needs, Water is actually a living things.
Pardon me if im wrong... Ph is only to check on how acidic the water is, nt to check the mineral contain in the water..
I mean would it b the same if we using different type of water instead distilled water.
The well known reason why not mineral water is because of algae.. Aint we have silver coil & cooper to get rid of algae??

Silver: This element has been known for centuries as an effective bacteria and virus killer. Silver sulphadiazine is the standard antibacterial treatment for burns and open wounds, and silver nitrate is used to protect the eyes of newborns. Some activated carbon filters for drinking water purification are impregnated with silver to prevent bacterial buildup. Silver is also used in drinking water treatment by airlines and passenger ships.

The National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) designed a silver ionization system for its Apollo flights. The Johnson Space Center developed an electrolytic silver ion generator weighing only 9 ounces, requiring minimal power and no astronaut monitoring. Installed in the potable water supply and wastewater systems, the device would dispense silver ions to eliminate bacteria and viruses.

Copper: Copper is also now recognized as one of the best algae killers, and oxides and sulfates of copper are used in pesticides, algaecides and fungicides. Pool stores sell copper-based algaecide to kill black algae, the toughest of all.

Ions affect cell walls
When copper and silver ions and nanoparticles are released into water, these cations (positively charged) are a potent microbicide. These ions bond with negatively charged areas on the microorganism’s cell walls, affecting cell wall permeability and minimizing the intake of life-sustaining nutrients.

Inside an algae cell, copper and silver attack sulfur-containing amino acid radicals in the proteins used for photosynthesis. Photosynthesis and reproductive processes are blocked, leading to cell lysis (disintegration) and death.
*
Maybe I can give some input here as well.

A point to note about plasticiser from flexible tubing is also because of temperatures. Infernoaswen did a nice job of compiling results from rather controlled specimens, but if you were to refer to other forums where they've collected results from various users using different setups where temperature varies a lot, you'll see that sometimes a certain brand will perform well and sometimes will not.

Distilled water is pretty much dead water. Has nothing. No minerals, no microbes, no spores, dead. For all purposes of using distilled water in our loop, it's just there to conduct heat. Upon contact with the blocks we use, you'll get weird metal ions though.

Silver works yes, but not immediate, and not unless you put enough of it. It works when there is enough silver ions in the water to kill whatever spores or living rubbish in the water.

As for copper, the copper you want is copper sulphate, not regular copper or copper ions, otherwise those of us using full copper blocks and loops should have been perfectly okay from the start. Copper sulphate is the stuff you want.

For this reason, people use silver and biocide together, biocide for immediate effect and silver for the long run, since biocide typically needs to be topped up.

Algae and plasticiser are two different things btw. Algae is natural, plasticiser is from the tubing itself, making it a chemical based substance and rather unpredictable when dealing with different working conditions and tube batches.
BuckRoger
post Oct 11 2013, 07:55 PM

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QUOTE(pristine @ Oct 11 2013, 07:35 PM)
Maybe I can give some input here as well.

A point to note about plasticiser from flexible tubing is also because of temperatures. Infernoaswen did a nice job of compiling results from rather controlled specimens, but if you were to refer to other forums where they've collected results from various users using different setups where temperature varies a lot, you'll see that sometimes a certain brand will perform well and sometimes will not.

Distilled water is pretty much dead water. Has nothing. No minerals, no microbes, no spores, dead. For all purposes of using distilled water in our loop, it's just there to conduct heat. Upon contact with the blocks we use, you'll get weird metal ions though.

Silver works yes, but not immediate, and not unless you put enough of it. It works when there is enough silver ions in the water to kill whatever spores or living rubbish in the water.

As for copper, the copper you want is copper sulphate, not regular copper or copper ions, otherwise those of us using full copper blocks and loops should have been perfectly okay from the start. Copper sulphate is the stuff you want.

For this reason, people use silver and biocide together, biocide for immediate effect and silver for the long run, since biocide typically needs to be topped up.

Algae and plasticiser are two different things btw. Algae is natural, plasticiser is from the tubing itself, making it a chemical based substance and rather unpredictable when dealing with different working conditions and tube batches.
*
Good to know thumbup.gif but.... but... hehehe why do we need a silver to kill algae while using distilled water, as there nothing in it smile.gif.

in the end come to material that is used for flexible tubing smile.gif. how good is the tubing wall is resistance to water, it may differ from brand to brand & from batch to batch.... any thanks! its good to know biggrin.gif..
pristine
post Oct 11 2013, 08:08 PM

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QUOTE(BuckRoger @ Oct 11 2013, 07:55 PM)
Good to know  thumbup.gif  but.... but... hehehe why do we need a silver to kill algae while using distilled water, as there nothing in it smile.gif.

in the end come to material that is used for flexible tubing smile.gif. how good is the tubing wall is resistance to water, it may differ from brand to brand & from batch to batch.... any thanks! its good to know biggrin.gif..
*
interesting right? haha. I guess along the way while filling up some spores might get in, dust gets in. get some sunlight and then gro.
TSinfernoaswen
post Oct 11 2013, 08:34 PM

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QUOTE(pristine @ Oct 11 2013, 07:35 PM)
Maybe I can give some input here as well.

A point to note about plasticiser from flexible tubing is also because of temperatures. Infernoaswen did a nice job of compiling results from rather controlled specimens, but if you were to refer to other forums where they've collected results from various users using different setups where temperature varies a lot, you'll see that sometimes a certain brand will perform well and sometimes will not.

Distilled water is pretty much dead water. Has nothing. No minerals, no microbes, no spores, dead. For all purposes of using distilled water in our loop, it's just there to conduct heat. Upon contact with the blocks we use, you'll get weird metal ions though.

Silver works yes, but not immediate, and not unless you put enough of it. It works when there is enough silver ions in the water to kill whatever spores or living rubbish in the water.

As for copper, the copper you want is copper sulphate, not regular copper or copper ions, otherwise those of us using full copper blocks and loops should have been perfectly okay from the start. Copper sulphate is the stuff you want.

For this reason, people use silver and biocide together, biocide for immediate effect and silver for the long run, since biocide typically needs to be topped up.

Algae and plasticiser are two different things btw. Algae is natural, plasticiser is from the tubing itself, making it a chemical based substance and rather unpredictable when dealing with different working conditions and tube batches.
*
Well said. Also its worth to mention for those who cant really find any biocide/silver coil, you guys can just get a premix coolant such as mayhems etc Those already contain properties such as biocide to prevent algae growth.

QUOTE(BuckRoger @ Oct 11 2013, 07:55 PM)
Good to know  thumbup.gif  but.... but... hehehe why do we need a silver to kill algae while using distilled water, as there nothing in it smile.gif.

in the end come to material that is used for flexible tubing smile.gif. how good is the tubing wall is resistance to water, it may differ from brand to brand & from batch to batch.... any thanks! its good to know biggrin.gif..
*
Yup & there are a lot of other factors that could play an important role in this plasticizer issue but temperature seems to play a major role in this. I changed my tubing recently & its been around 3 weeks already without any plasticizer issue but temperatures are around 30-40 degrees, I am sure once I started my stress test things might differ like what happened before smile.gif
BuckRoger
post Oct 11 2013, 08:49 PM

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QUOTE(infernoaswen @ Oct 11 2013, 08:34 PM)
Well said. Also its worth to mention for those who cant really find any biocide/silver coil, you guys can just get a premix coolant such as mayhems etc Those already contain properties such as biocide to prevent algae growth.
Yup & there are a lot of other factors that could play an important role in this plasticizer issue but temperature seems to play a major role in this. I changed my tubing recently & its been around 3 weeks already without any plasticizer issue but temperatures are around 30-40 degrees, I am sure once I started my stress test things might differ like what happened before smile.gif
*
just wondering, have u ever drip in an olive oil in plasticizer tube??i mean inside ur reservoir & run the pc...after a few days ur tube will be clear as crystal.. all the white plasticizer thinggy will be removed frm tube wall & travel all the way with water in ur loop... hehehe u should try.. be prepare to filter out ur water.. tongue.gif

This post has been edited by BuckRoger: Oct 11 2013, 08:54 PM
TSinfernoaswen
post Oct 11 2013, 08:55 PM

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QUOTE(BuckRoger @ Oct 11 2013, 08:49 PM)
just wondering, have u ever drip in an olive oil in plasticizer tube?? hehehe u should try.. be prepare to filter out ur water..  tongue.gif
*
Nope & rather not. Not sure what the effect will be to the pumps too & probably hard to clean it out. Its easier to change the tubing rather than cleaning it or we can always opt for acrylic tubing & not face this issue smile.gif
BuckRoger
post Oct 11 2013, 08:57 PM

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QUOTE(infernoaswen @ Oct 11 2013, 08:55 PM)
Nope & rather not. Not sure what the effect will be to the pumps too & probably hard to clean it out. Its easier to change the tubing rather than cleaning it or we can always opt for acrylic tubing & not face this issue smile.gif
*
lol.... just wondering why olive oil does that kinda effect.. we should go back to the chemistry class hahahha... but u r very true.. end up, the plasticizer will cloged up ur waterblock & things as the plasticizer turn into somekinda very soft jelly....

This post has been edited by BuckRoger: Oct 11 2013, 09:00 PM
Acemit Kardon
post Oct 21 2014, 05:27 PM

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I want to ask. Arclic tube also get plasticizer or not? My flex tube already plasticizer. I want change and need sugestion from expert..tq
TSinfernoaswen
post Oct 21 2014, 09:44 PM

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QUOTE(Acemit Kardon @ Oct 21 2014, 05:27 PM)
I want to ask. Arclic tube also get plasticizer or not? My flex tube already plasticizer. I want change and need sugestion from expert..tq
*
Nope acrylic tube wont have plasticizer issues. Its the best option in fact.
Acemit Kardon
post Oct 21 2014, 09:47 PM

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where can i buy acrylic tube and its fitting?
TSinfernoaswen
post Oct 21 2014, 09:48 PM

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QUOTE(Acemit Kardon @ Oct 21 2014, 09:47 PM)
where can i buy acrylic tube and its fitting?
*
try asking them: https://www.facebook.com/APES.My
Acemit Kardon
post Oct 21 2014, 09:52 PM

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tq.
nohal
post May 28 2018, 08:42 PM

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Do they still sell 1/2 ID tubing without plasticizer?

haha. Been awhile since last maintain my WC loop. Just trying to get my self busy again by replacing my WC tubes. Haha.

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