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 V10 - Property Prices (Up, Down or .....), and the debate goes on and on and on ...

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AMINT
post Mar 29 2013, 04:07 PM

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QUOTE(AppreciativeMan @ Mar 29 2013, 03:47 PM)
1. Since they're rich and with holding power, they'll continue holding it and probably purchase more
2. Since they're fully leverage, that will means they are in trouble. They'll have to cut their lost and if its insufficient then they may go into bankruptcy.
3. If u are asking on 'middle income with average down camp group' then I'll see still no action from them.
Reason 1: Prop price may be cheaper but they may still need almost the same amt (or could be more) of cash to purchase prop
Eg 500k prop,
90% LTV, cash up front 50k
70% LTV, cash up front 150k
If market has a correction of 30%, bear in mind that bank will give lower valuation preparing for the worst too..
500k - 30% = 350k, bank value will be easily 10-15% different.
If bank value 300k,
90% LTV, cash up front (350k-300k) + (300k x 10%) = 80k
70% LTV, cash up front (350k-300k) + (300k x 30%) = 140k
Reason 2: Fear. When bank gives lower value, greater fear will occur tat price going down further, or what if they lose their job at this time and etc.
4. Who knows.... Maybe it become opportunities to them.....   tongue.gif
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Do this. Refinance all the properties you have. that amount put in ASNB while waiting for a crash if takut la sangat. win2 situation.

This post has been edited by AMINT: Mar 29 2013, 04:09 PM
Halamdar
post Mar 29 2013, 05:05 PM

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I am just curious, what is your opinion :

(1) How much net assets to be considered to be Rich, Middle class, or Poor ?

(2) How much income before tax to be considered to be High, Middle and Low income group ?

(3) From what I can see, it seems the ppl who have the holding power > 1 million USD net assets at least.

And usually I would assume these ppl predominately at 45 > 50 age group ?

Last question : what is the percentage of the ppl or NUMBER of ppl you think in Malaysia have these holding power ? Considering the amount of the properties that are on loan...

Thank you biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Halamdar: Mar 29 2013, 05:06 PM
AMINT
post Mar 29 2013, 05:36 PM

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QUOTE(Halamdar @ Mar 29 2013, 05:05 PM)
I am just curious, what is your opinion :

(1) How much net assets to be considered to be Rich, Middle class, or Poor ?

(2) How much income before tax to be considered to be High, Middle and Low income group ?

(3) From what I can see, it seems the ppl who have the holding power > 1 million USD net assets at least.

And usually I would assume these ppl predominately at 45 > 50 age group ?

Last question : what is the percentage of the ppl or NUMBER of ppl you think in Malaysia have these holding power ? Considering the amount of the properties that are on loan...

Thank you biggrin.gif
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Good questions but not easy to answer. I think poor, middle or rich are very subjective. Some people think got rm1mil already rich. Some people think got 1 bungalow, 1 mercedes already rich. Some think rm5mil then only considered rich. Some rm10 mil. Same goes for other categories.
AppreciativeMan
post Mar 29 2013, 05:39 PM

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QUOTE(AMINT @ Mar 29 2013, 04:07 PM)
Do this. Refinance all the properties you have. that amount put in ASNB while waiting for a crash if takut la sangat. win2 situation.
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For which group u suggesting this? shakehead.gif
AMINT
post Mar 29 2013, 05:40 PM

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QUOTE(AppreciativeMan @ Mar 29 2013, 05:39 PM)
For which group u suggesting this?  shakehead.gif
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No la. just saying something general. not saying to you. smile.gif
AppreciativeMan
post Mar 29 2013, 05:57 PM

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QUOTE(Halamdar @ Mar 29 2013, 05:05 PM)
I am just curious, what is your opinion :

(1) How much net assets to be considered to be Rich, Middle class, or Poor ?

(2) How much income before tax to be considered to be High, Middle and Low income group ?

(3) From what I can see, it seems the ppl who have the holding power > 1 million USD net assets at least.

And usually I would assume these ppl predominately at 45 > 50 age group ?

Last question : what is the percentage of the ppl or NUMBER of ppl you think in Malaysia have these holding power ? Considering the amount of the properties that are on loan...

Thank you biggrin.gif
*
Different ppl different definition... I see a gal as pretty doesn't mean u see the same.... tongue.gif
The basic definition in poor, middle, rich for me is:
Poor - struggle to earn a living for those most basic needs such as a shelter, food, clothing..... Need to calculate every single penny on expenses... Hardly hav any savings...... In short, survive day to day basis...
Middle - Range will be wider.... On a job (can be self employed, businessman, or professionals), earning enough, basic need is not their most worrying but their future income, and expenses.... In short having the ability to plan for tomorrow but not to the extend of no worries.
Rich - Basically no worries about money.... Future have been taken care of too already....

This post has been edited by AppreciativeMan: Mar 29 2013, 05:59 PM
ManutdGiggs
post Mar 29 2013, 06:35 PM

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-22...r-benefits.html

In which class is she belong to??? Rich??? Or poor???
SUSUFO-ET
post Mar 29 2013, 06:46 PM

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QUOTE(White Skin Treasures @ Mar 29 2013, 02:18 PM)
Can I ask a stupid question? Hypothetically - what if the crash really happens, and market value slump by 30%,
- What the rich with holding power will do?
- What will the middle income fully leveraged will do?
- What will the down camp will do - for middle income group with average savings?
- Life goes on for the poor?
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Down camp? wait for -40%
Halamdar
post Mar 29 2013, 07:00 PM

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QUOTE(AppreciativeMan @ Mar 29 2013, 05:57 PM)
Different ppl different definition... I see a gal as pretty doesn't mean u see the same....  tongue.gif
The basic definition in poor, middle, rich for me is:
Poor - struggle to earn a living for those most basic needs such as a shelter, food, clothing..... Need to calculate every single penny on expenses... Hardly hav any savings...... In short, survive day to day basis...
Middle - Range will be wider.... On a job (can be self employed, businessman, or professionals), earning enough, basic need is not their most worrying but their future income, and expenses.... In short having the ability to plan for tomorrow but not to the extend of no worries.
Rich - Basically no worries about money.... Future have been taken care of too already....
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Haha biggrin.gif

So from your definition, law of gravity still apply to the vast majority of ppl who has 3 + properties on loan, IF there is a 25 %+ market correction .

Just same random thought, could the properties go up and up and up , and ALL the ppl become overnight millionaires' due to properties appreciation tongue.gif ? I know, I know, that depends on the general household income growth to support the property price.

Thank you biggrin.gif
AVFAN
post Mar 29 2013, 07:09 PM

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QUOTE(Halamdar @ Mar 29 2013, 07:00 PM)
Haha biggrin.gif

So from your definition, law of gravity still apply to the vast majority of ppl who has 3 + properties on loan, IF there is a 25 %+ market correction .
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25% will be a national disaster.

we hear a lot about rising car loans, housing loans, etc. what we dun hear much and that is a much bigger concern, is what gomen and those who walk in the corridors of power has done with the money saved and deposited by all rich and poor malaysians - banks, epf, amanahs included. when one major sector takes a hit, it will start a chain reaction affecting all the rest. in the case of cyprus, a lot of the money was loaned to greece for their prop bubble, civil service pensions, etc.

read this to get an idea why this "debt" issue is becoming such a menace, even a threat to everyone and everything here:

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/sidevie...ratio-pak-sako/

This post has been edited by AVFAN: Mar 29 2013, 07:20 PM
SilverSpoon
post Mar 29 2013, 09:22 PM

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QUOTE(cranx @ Mar 29 2013, 01:30 PM)
it is quarter by quarter in the website, anyway lets look at house price index for 10 year period

http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/real-es...ices/M#malaysia

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QUOTE(chubbyken @ Mar 29 2013, 02:08 PM)
is now bear trap or bull trap?
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Definitely not bear trap as we have passed the "media attention" & "new paradigm" stage.
By the way, cranx, thanks for the data smile.gif

This post has been edited by SilverSpoon: Mar 29 2013, 09:24 PM
Rooney1985
post Mar 29 2013, 09:31 PM

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QUOTE(SilverSpoon @ Mar 29 2013, 09:22 PM)
Definitely not bear trap as we have passed the "media attention" & "new paradigm" stage.
By the way,  cranx, thanks for the data smile.gif
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Aiyah, prices will only go up one la... So many foreigners queuing up to buy our properties... Lol!!! So many luxury cars on the road mean Malaysians still got lots of money!!! Lol!!!!... So many people flocking to city to work they sure need houses one... Prices sure up up up one... Hahaha!
EddyLB
post Mar 29 2013, 10:05 PM

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QUOTE(Rooney1985 @ Mar 29 2013, 09:31 PM)
Aiyah, prices will only go up one la... So many foreigners queuing up to buy our properties... Lol!!! So many luxury cars on the road mean Malaysians still got lots of money!!! Lol!!!!... So many people flocking to city to work they sure need houses one... Prices sure up up up one... Hahaha!
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The lawyer from the down camp also switch side and buy RM600+ psf pigeon hole, the market how to stop going up ? vmad.gif
EddyLB
post Mar 29 2013, 10:13 PM

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QUOTE(tat3179 @ Mar 29 2013, 09:33 AM)
If they can.

Can they for example cut down their kid's education, food and other necessity to keep holding unto their props.


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Not whether they can or not. They have to. Else, its bankruptcy. End of the road to financial freedom

Kid's education, food and other necessity is in the other 50% of income lah. In my example above, bank debt to income ratio is 50%. So the living expenses is included in the RM5k. RM5k is more than enough for a decent life style in Malaysia. Can have some savings too

You sound like the banks are lending them 100% of their income. Leaving them with no margin of error.
EddyLB
post Mar 29 2013, 10:17 PM

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QUOTE(ManutdGiggs @ Mar 29 2013, 06:35 PM)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-22...r-benefits.html

In which class is she belong to??? Rich??? Or poor???
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Holy sh*t ! Soon, UK will be bankrupt !
SUStat3179
post Mar 29 2013, 10:25 PM

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QUOTE(EddyLB @ Mar 29 2013, 10:05 PM)
The lawyer from the down camp also switch side and buy RM600+ psf pigeon hole, the market how to stop going up ?  vmad.gif
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Dude, I never said I switch side... biggrin.gif
Halamdar
post Mar 29 2013, 10:39 PM

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QUOTE(EddyLB @ Mar 29 2013, 10:17 PM)
Holy sh*t ! Soon, UK will be bankrupt !
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UK IS bankrupt ! look at their tax system and VAT... rclxub.gif

zuiko407
post Mar 29 2013, 10:45 PM

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QUOTE(tat3179 @ Mar 29 2013, 10:25 PM)
Dude, I never said I switch side... biggrin.gif
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U have to switch, your down camp don't recognize u anymore tongue.gif
EddyLB
post Mar 29 2013, 11:50 PM

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QUOTE(tat3179 @ Mar 29 2013, 10:25 PM)
Dude, I never said I switch side... biggrin.gif
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Ok, you never openly "say" you switched side. But your "action" is a major betrayal to the DDD camp.

If even you (who so firmly believe the market will collapse soon) can make a decision to buy a property at this time (a pigeon hole at RM600+ somemore doh.gif ), it is the best wake up call for the DDD camp to reassess their belief of property bubble bursting soon. Look where has your buddy joeblow gone ? Probably busy searching for a pigeon hole near Subang ? laugh.gif


AMINT
post Mar 30 2013, 12:45 AM

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QUOTE(EddyLB @ Mar 29 2013, 11:50 PM)
Ok, you never openly "say" you switched side. But your "action" is a major betrayal to the DDD camp. 

If even you (who so firmly believe the market will collapse soon) can make a decision to buy a property at this time (a pigeon hole at RM600+ somemore  doh.gif ), it is the best wake up call for the DDD camp to reassess their belief of property bubble bursting soon. Look where has your buddy joeblow gone ? Probably busy searching for a pigeon hole near Subang ? laugh.gif
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Adui. LOL. i think we are all interested to buy properties, right? smile.gif

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