I find this really astounding. An interesting analysis and thesis.

For many of us, there are still so many things to discover and to learn.


Whether you be believe in God or not, these 2 sessions are way qualified to be on Ted.

Please refrain from posting disparaging remarks about religion whatsoever.

This post has been edited by feynman: Mar 4 2013, 07:07 AM

hmmm the chinese do worship their GOD long before AD
so... its about 5000years back then
now some one claims it, its theirs?

This post has been edited by shinnsohai: Mar 4 2013, 08:02 AM

this is nice...share more please

dun get what you mean.

God apparently in for all. The thesis of this preacher is that the Chinese have been worshipping this God since time immemorial, he also argued that this supreme being is the same God of Christianity and Judaism.

chinese have always been praying to some sort of statue or stone figure

China's history is over 4000 years and christianity only started around 2000 years ago. not to mention they claim earth was created only 3000 years ago.

maths fail?

Math failed lolz

U're refering to?

Ah, Kong Hee the conman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kong_Hee#Arrest)

Creationists only believe what their bible say n reject all scientific n geologic reason about how earth r form n so on...they only believe in Noah flood that doesn't exist...

isn't he is being arrested 4 om nom nom 20 million of charity moneh 2 let her wifu bcom superstar?
they say he is the best con man alive in sg n successfully convinced many ppl 2 change their believes

To me, there are not "supposed" to be (insert religion here).
Everyone should be free to choose their own religion.

to be honest, chinese practice a form of eastern paganism which much of the chuch is against in their early days.

so to lay claim that its the same thing, is as good as saying "dear luci and jesus" is the same thing

i have read that the origin of religion, holy people are from or serve the same God. judaism, christian, islam, hindu , budha etc. It just the followers get astray generation by generation and made their own version for their own benefits.

LOL. Agree.

Religion is just some smart arse's way to bring people together and gain something from them. Same context as the triad/gangsters/mafias/yakuza, just different content.

Kong hee isn't the one the one that discovered this la.. There are many obvious links in the words and no one can deny that. Even the border sacrifice is proof they believed in God . The temple of heaven has no carvings of idols either

His way of explaining the chinese characters are hugely wrong. From a chinese lignuist point of view. The way he dissects the characters are absurd.

This post has been edited by raymond_loh: Mar 6 2013, 12:31 AM

Not necessarily true---there are those who don't gain anything from their followers/believers.

Nontheless, Kong Hee is a case gone too wrong.

This post has been edited by raymond_loh: Mar 6 2013, 12:35 AM

i didnt watch his other websites only.. traditional chinese words are clearer

Anything that justifies his religion man. XD

City Harvest. Yup. Read that long ago.

in the history of chinese. there are records of huge flood.

unless u are not chinese. so u never heard of it.

am chinese bt nv heard of it b4

this argument is on links between words is ridiculous

all early civilization have story of flood because they center around major river

Australian aborigines have flood myths even though they are desert dwellers.

australia dont have flood and river? those aborigines stay in place with no water?

there is only one flood.

one flood that worth to be written in so many legends.

either you are a banana, or....those typical chinese that knows nothing about chinese history


大禹治水

suits the name, really harvesting the hard earn money from the believers.

correct, i'm cainis, i do read and i knoe about tis in the written history.

it's one of those early early tamadun caina things.

summore this 大禹 guy is so hardcore he is tasked by the emperor to fix the flood issue, 3 times he pass his house but never go in, so call he so dedicated lor - tat is the story.

It's pretty obvious. It's just that people are still stubborn in what they chose to believe. The big 3 religions shared a lot of common historical incident. It's not surprising.

I'm speaking purely as my point of view as an Atheist.

There are part i agreed with....
However there are part i think he had exagerating it to promote christian agenda

he got it wrong during the introduction, chinese before taoism believe in deities & their ancestors ascend becoming a saint or demi god. I stop the video when he said harleluya the 2nd time

fululu

From this book published in 1979

god doesn't exist
/thread

So it's god's intention to create a religion under multiple names to cater for different type of people - when all religion is referring to the same one single god?

Either God has a poor judgement call in empowering mankind with such thoughts, or God doesnt relli give darn.

no, actually according to christianity, only jewish and christianity created by god. rest of religion created by satan.
becoz the goal is simple. satan know he cannot get god's throne( his reason for rebeling) and world end he will go to lake of fire for eternity.

So his plan is create many religions so tat most ppl end up in hell. 2nd reason is if most ppl reject God then God is force to vacate his throne on earth and give it to satan since 99.99% human reject god. So satan think he can occupy earth and force god to give him earth.

IF God doesnt give a darn, why bother with the bible of over 360,000 words?

Jst so u know...all Satan need to do in order to have believer/follower, is to do nothing...
And so far, looks like God is losing...






Human nature lor...when we are in trouble, we prefer to believe there is a higher power up above protecting us or hope will protect us...something like a piece of mind.

This pastor, Kong Hee, has same trials in Singapore.

this is a super sor-hai thesis. the chinese are essentially a secular
people. sure, they pray to the jade emperor, the local deities and their
ancestors, but the lives of the chinese have always been governed by
ethics rather than religion -- confucian ethics, to be precise.

that is, filial piety and respecting the elders as the basis upon which you
build society, everyone knowing his and her place and the role to play.
of course, there is also the emphasis on education, being virtuous etc.

religion itself has never really ordered the way the chinese people live.

What is meant by losing?

Christianity does not teach that when you are in trouble then reach out for God.
BTW the bible was written by diverse people in diverse places over eons writing about the same person..........

YOU are missing the point

Its in the pictograph writings of the chinese characters which depicts the Genesis story..............coinicidence?

me thinks not

losing base on the simple 10 commandments...we can go further, but let's start with the 10.

and the same structure was build by different ppl in different country yet not many ppl believes in the UFOs...

i'm missing the point. oh, ya ke? you know or not
there are pictographs in the pyramids supposedly
depicting helicopters & flying saucer? & so some "experts"
say the egyptian pyramid and religion and tech know-how
came from outer space.

don't be so naive lah, man. the chinese
never heard of christ or christianity, & it was a
good thing too. what happened when christianity
finally arrived in china? you got the taiping rebellion
and a quasi-christian cult.

i'm not saying christianity was the root of the rebellion,
but it certainly had the religious cult potential
to propel the anger & desperation that was building up
into a violent movement.

this whole chinese are supposed to be monotheistic argument
is just chinamen-christians-come-lately trying to
assert primacy after the fact. WE WERE FIRST!! ya, right.

Yellow Emperor, Huang Ti, is revered as a God. Maybe he just have close relationship with God?

China has some 5000 years of history and civilisation to date. What about the spread of Christianity? When it begins?
Judge by yourself.
By the way, here's some interesting facts which 'may be offensive' to certain quarters.
This post has been edited by leetan33: Mar 14 2013, 08:50 PM

This is just like the prediction of 9/11, tsunami from the bible. The followers pick up something here,something there,add some salt and kicap to make their story sounds reasonable. And then spread it. The bible didn't say all that but it's the people with their mind make it up. These Chinese character doesn't exist until recently. It's funny how he chose the word whether it's the ancient word or the modern word to fits his story.

This post has been edited by Kendall: Mar 15 2013, 12:06 AM

Buddhism came to china from India.. Not as a religion but as a way of life.. Buddha was liked by the people.. and they start worshiping him! Now my real question is What were they worshiping before Buddha?
If you check the predate history Muslim and Christianity came many years later to china.. first to trade then people are convinced (with all do respect) to convert! I don't have a point here! but the question still remain same! What were the ancient Chinese worshiping before all this religion>?

Maybe they worship they sky,stone,trees,rivers,etc.

Can you elaborate?

My simple mind can comprehend what you are trying to put across.......

God is losing........the ten commandments........what?

Are we discussing about the pyramids or Chinese pictograph?

You are really missing the point.....
Was the speaker pointing to the Chinese knowing about Christ or the God Almighty in the old testament?

Tell me about Genesis...........

AND I will tell you whther you are missing the point or totally lost...........

Do know what is the timeline of Christianity?

It 'appears' that many have failed to even watched the vid.........

do u know wat the 10 commandment is 1st? if not, then it's pointless for me to go further.

Yes......I do...........but you have to qualify your statements better for my understandin of you....

I can discuss the old testament with you if you like.........

wah larky me coz i only finished Old Testament before i put the bible aside for fiction novels...

well...which 10 commandments human being is capable of upholding..as in, majority of human being anyway.

That's great! We can discuss.............

NONE..........

I wud love to..but there's a christian tered d..which i already shared amongst those hunnerd pages..

anyway, since it is none..and God sort of wanted human to follow his words...assuming those are his words, then aint Him losing then?

Thus i say, Satan need not commandments to recruit followers...Satan need to jst let human nature take its course..and wahla! new members coming up! served on a silver plater..

God is not the loser.........humans are the losers if they don't follow Him at his commands
because God is their creator and He knows whats best for them.

You are right that the devil need not commands to recruit followers.
He needs to tempt them and let the fallen human nature take its course.

That's why God needed to do something to help humans.
He told them about redemption and salvation.........otherwise they will end up in hell
because of their sinfulness.

that's when God send His only son so that sinful humans could be redeemed unto salvation.
When they believe in Jesus, the Holy Spirit comes to help them to obey God
by living on the.....that's when Christians become overcomers of sin and to learn to
obey God and His commands.

and thus it is not wrong to say that for now, God is on the losing end...

the almighty and know all and creator of human can only watch in disbelier while His once loyal follower turned on Him....come to think of it, doesnt that only show how Satan has the same human nature as human being?

Blue print must have screwed up somewhere before reaching production plant huh?

prophetjul, if i may add on the screw up blue print - as bolded :

There is losing on God's side..........its sinful humans which is at the loss because of the end awaiting......

Who turned on Him? There are millions of believers who have followed, and are following Him.
Know that there is FREEWILL........God did not make a 'product'.
He made humans with feelings,conscience and freewill, an ability to choose whther good or evil.
He did not create robots.
That's the difference. That's where humans are in His likeness.

As far as human likeness to satan, its the ability to DISOBEY and REBEL.

There was no screwup in the blueprint. Its still on.........till the end comes.

Nope.....its called FREEWILL.......God has given us the power to choose.

Adam chose wrongly to disobey.....thus the corruption of humankind

yes.and that's the problem with Him...
He purposely created feelings, conscience, good and evil...yet when we choose the road of the devil, we will be punished. He called it freewill, yet it is not free...for there is a price to be paid towards the end.

And people do good, not because of conscience or out of good will, but simply because there are rewards at the end.

Why dogs listen to their masters when they were asked to sit, bark, or fetch the stick? Coz there are rewards. And not obeying the orders of the masters, means no reward.

If human has His likeness which is freewill and own decision to make, then why is He punishing us if we dont follow his path? I am okay if He wanna be robot and listen to His self claimed God...but why subject the same path for us? What freewill is there, if the option is punishment or reward?

It is not, choose either right or left path, go forth and make your own destiny.

No..no no no, it is choose right and u shall be rewarded, choose left and u shall burn in hell. This is freewill? If it is, then it is one i rather not have. I shall prefer to be a robot instead.

Human likeness to satan is that of disobey and rebel? But i thought freewill means not following every other tom, d!ck and harry you come across? I thought freewill means making ur own path, ur own decision, ur own way of life? And to rebel, means doing things out of the norm. And long long time ago, cooking ur food is not the norm. Someone rebelled, and thought that meat tastes better after they were cooked. Eh wait...do u mean to say, God created us to eat raw meat, jst simply because He think that's best for us? Or He want us to think out of the box, and find out that eating cooked meat is more delicious? Isnt that rebelling the way of God's trust to us? Unless you meant to say, God never intended us to eat raw meat..He already wanted us to eat cooked meat early on..?

And let's not get me start on Jesus when he was crucified...unless of course, your religion allow people to question instead of following as a sheep as the book hoped human race wud be.

Let me give you an example

A father advises his young son that an iron is hot. So don't touch it.........but the son is curious...
he puts his hand on the metal side of the iron. He gets burnt.

Same thing with God.
Hell is a consequential destination. Point of the matter is God sets the instructions so we don't end up there.
Its up to us to choose what we want. He doesn't force us to do anything.
He just advises us to obey Him because that obedience will lead to the good path at the end of the day.

Hell was not created for us. It was created for the rebellious devil.

The freewill is in the CHOICE. Its not about the consequences. The consequences are there whether you like it or not.
much like a hot iron.
Understand that God is a HOLY God. This means that UNholiness is dealt with in His presence.
If God can be subjected to our whims and fancies, how is He the Almighty?

the hot iron is a very good example, albeit extreme.

wat about this one..simpler and more straight forward.

will i go heaven and meet Him upon my death if i dont believe in Him, instead of burning in hell - eventhough i hurt no soul/animal or any other living being my whole life?
i guess the hot iron example doesnt really work with this anymore aye?

and back to circle, we need to obey orders in order not to be punished...the last time i heard this, was from najib.

only dictators, villains and highly arrogant beings believe in using the carrot and stick method. follow what i say, and u live. not and u die. of course ur still given the choice to die. and it is a choice nonetheless. if u believe this is freewill and a choice was given, then i guess u jst succeeded in making someone a further non-believer.

Hi

HELL is even more extreme!

No...you will not goto heaven if you don't believe in Him.
Even though you hurt no one, you said before you cannot achieve the 10 commandments.
SO you would have SINNED.

The hot iron is consequence......so is hell as consequential destination.

Najib is not God.

God is Holy.

God is love.

Because He sees you have no hope unless He did something to help you, you will end up in hell.
Therefore He sent His only son so that you can be redeemed by His death on the cross.
It only takes Faith to come to Him. This is love of God.

Its not just about destination. The destinations are consequences.
Its all about a relationship with a Holy and Loving God.

so only through believing in Him..i can be permitted to enter heaven? kind of like He hold my membership card lar right? if i dont believe in Him, eventhough i did all 10 commandments He said humans should, yet i will still be denied entry..coz my membership card dont have His signature?

so following all 10 commandments is not priority. priority is in believing in Him?

He really so desperate for fragile humans to believe in Him when He has millions of angels, seraphs under Him? Aint that greedy like human trait? It is jst never enough huh?

And no no, let's not start about why He was sent to earth...i have way more questions on that area that needs enlightenment..but let's not venture to that area until i can understand His way of thinking. His....selfish thinking, if i may put it so bluntly.

And if it is indeed all about relatioonship, then why arent we given a choice of loving Him or not? Unless ur saying, to love Him means getting that membership card...to not love HIm means not having the membershipcard..isnt that like....selfish? i mean as in, the epitome of selfishness?


We talk about charity, helping others and etc...heck, He taught us to do good to people that doesnt trust us, hence the saying, love thy enemy/neighbour and everyone else. Show them care, love and etc...and we do that by giving them things they might need and allow them to enter our house for warmth.

Yet when we dont trust Him, we are NOT allowed to enter His kingdom?

notice the double standard and not walking the talk?

If the almighty cannot do that, why is He torturing us by expecting us to do something He can't?

First of all, fully obeying the 10 commandments does not even register. Because one cannot.
So its an oxy M argument there.

Its not greedy.......humans beings are created IN HIS IMAGE....meaning we are special to Him.
That's why because of His love for us, He took all the trouble even to that of sacrificing His only son for us.
Its not desperation. Its love. If its desperation, He could just wipe out mankind and recreate. But that's not love.
Its not selfish.....its His attributes/nature/character.

Again, you are just focussing on consequences which you cant change. That's in the future, the consequences.
What you have is NOW......the decision. The iron is hot. Will you touch it or not? You have A CHOICE.

No, there are no double standards.
Those commandments you put out there reflects whom He is.....love.
His commandments are very consistent with His attributes.

Remember always, HE IS GOD ALMIGHTY.
So, we cannot expect Him to be like us.....compromising. His Holy attributes does not allow that.
AND Yes, he recognises we cannot achieve the holy standards that His Holiness demands.
His Holiness demands us to be Holy.

BUT we cant because we are sinful........

THATS the reason He send His son to die for us.
He had already arrange and prepared the way because He KNOWS we cant make that level of Holiness.
Only for us to have faith in Him to do that.

busy in 7th gun tered in /k..reply u later

on second thought..ur 1st sentence caught my attention...
so ur saying, God is trolling us human by giving us 10 things He know we cannot achieve? dafuk is wrong?

Ok..now explain why give us 10 commandments when He know we cant make it. the rest i come back later.

He is not giving the ten commandments for us to achive........pls read carefully.

Your anti God is getting the better of you.

If you are really interested i will continue. If not dont waste me time......

The ten commandments reflcts His attribute of Holiness, not for us to achieve.
But His Holiness requires us to be the same .
He knows we cant.
Therefore He sent His only son to achieve it on behalf of us.....the rest, go read the previous posts.

Reasoning with faith? You got to be kidding.

no no, dont get me wrong..me not anti god...
i jst thought before i commit myself to be a believer, it is only fair for my questions to be answered. Unless you're saying, believer means not question and jst do as ur told, regardless of what - like brainless zombie thingy.

else please...do share with me. enlighten me actually....

and u see, i still couldnt get the notion of, He know we cant do it, and yet He want us to do it...
so it's like teaching elephant to jump? and when elephant doesnt jump, we kill them off, burn their bodies, crush their bones to powder and hope their soul end up in hell for eternity?

And like i said on His son....let's dont get that started. I have more questions there. And if you are not capable of answering my 1st. then perhaps u should go learn more about your religion rather than act mightly and look down on those who seek answer. Is that how your church teaches you?






jst to kill time and try seeing from their point of view..

Hello, I've some question regarding Christianity.

If Adam and Eve are the first creation of god, then why are we so different from one another now? Not only in terms of facial features but also in culture and religion throughout the world.

What happens to those that never heard of Christ before? Like those living in places far from the gospel of Christianity? Those that led a peaceful life. Will they end up in hell?

I also notice there are contradicting statements in the bible.

Not very loving now is he?

Ah it reminds me of insurance.....

But the language that you use appears that you not so open to.

Neither do you read what I wrote.

No. Christianity is reasonable......we are allowed to question, although sometimes we will never fully understand.
But there is always consistency in our belief with regards to reason

No NO......AGAIN read this.......THE REASON for the 10 commandments is not for men to obey completely.
IT IS a reflection of HIS ATTRIBUTE of HOLINESS.
HE does not whip us to obey Him...

While He knows our weaknesses, He provides a way put through His son, through His death upon the cross.

I am capable of answering you PROVIDED you READ what I wrote.
Otherwise you become a troll and I don't have time for those.......

Perhaps you should read what I wrote before you jump to conclusions...

READ my previous posts to Mech.........

From Adam and Eve to the Noah, it took almost 11 generations.......1600

From Noah to the Tower of Babel, about 340 years.

At the Tower of Babel God saw the wicknesses of men and scattered them. At that time, they had only one language, one culture.




Men is created with conscience, unlike animals.
Those who have not heard of the gospel of Jesus Christ, God will judge them according to their conscience.
This is much more difficult than accepting God in faith,



Contradictions are only contradictions when you mis understanding CONTEXT.....and have your own PREsumptions.
The bible is NOT a contemporary literature. It is a Jewish literature and IF you try to interpret
it through contemporary spectacles, you may end up with misunderstandings

Conclusions? It was a question.

Just a simple question. Will he send me to hell for not believing in him even though I've only done good in my life?

Like I said

You should read what I have written to Mech....you will get yer answer and the right context there.......

Erm, this thread has derailed into something else.

Back to the topic.

I agree, Chinese are supposed to be Christians/Monotheists.

The writings have way too many coincidence that pictures Genesis and God.

I believe the early Chinese way before any record of history, they knew Elohim.

Before feynman posted this, our Church already preached on this subject.

Based on the characteristic and the pictogram of the Chinese words, it makes sense.

It is only a troll when you have spiteful thinking in the 1st place.

Someone who cheat others, will often doubt other people;s good intention. and ALWAYS believe everyone out there are ready to cheat him back.

Hence the trolling, i guess when you are not able to answer, the easiest way out would be to accuse people of trolling u. Or simply to brush them off and say, 'look, u didnt read what i wrote. you might have read but dont understand, but that still mean u didnt read what i wrote'.

You see only what you want to see. And eventhough i seek further clarification, to you, i am still trolling. Because again, to you, there is only 1 answer to 1 question. There is no answering the same question through different point of view.

Have you every heard the saying, The view from the top of the mountain is the same, it is only the path getting there that's different.

And to my list, you're probably the 4th self-claimed christian believer who would :
1) brush off question unanswerable as trolling
2) believe there is only 1 point of view in ALL situation

I only hope you could open up your heart and see things from different point of view moving forward. Else it would be a tragic for believers to have mindset like yours. I have expected better. I should have known.

I shall stop here as i see we are going no where. I shallnt waste ur time further.


PS : I have always wanted to believe, but the method of acceptance, is perhaps something i have not expected. If religion seek for dumb, blind follower that ask no questions when preached, i guess i should continue seeking one that permit questions to be thrown freely.

This post has been edited by Mech Warrior 6: Mar 18 2013, 10:03 AM

Hey mate

I keep on REPEATING the answers to your questions and yet you seemed to ignore them?

I have answered your questions as far as I can remember.
So to insinuate I brushed them aside?

I answer them as described by scriptures. WHY should there be another view?
YOU are the one asking me to answer from a Christian perspective, remember?

There IS ONLY ONE ROAD......from a Christian perspective.......if you cant accept that, than you are not seeing TRUTH.
TRUTH is not a thousand roads. TRUTH is ONE road and that road is JESUS.

you should know better.............

On yer different paths,

I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE. NO ONE GOES TO THE FATHER BUT THROUGH ME- JESUS CHRIST

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Mar 18 2013, 10:43 AM

Erm, okay I'll try to answer though this is really not the place to discuss this.

You have to understand the history of what happened at the beginning up to the time of Jesus Christ.

When Jesus said, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand", you need to understand that prior to that, Man was given the liberty to try and reach salvation by good works, effort, obedience. (Self Effort) That's the part, where you said about doing charity and stuff like that. It's the same thing.
Where it's really about you and God is not involved.

That's why the 10 commandments says Thou Shall not....Thou Shall not....Thou Shall not.....

It's about thou (you) not God.

Man was given more than enough time to try on their own but all have failed. Why? Because if you break just 1 rule, it's as good as breaking them all.

Man being stubborn and hard head needed that much time to know, that we cannot. For thousands of years we have tried and none could reach prefect righteousness.

When God sent Jesus Christ saying "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand", He is saying, Do you now concede that you cannot?

Now you watch me make way for you.

The word repent there does not mean believe in me or go to Hell. No.

The word repent there means giving up all pretension to self righteousness.

That means, give it up, and admit we are morally bankrupt.

When you admit like this, God receives you openly and gives you the power to overcome all that you need to overcome.

In modern translation, repent means come to God in a new way of thinking.

Don't come to God thinking He's out there to punish you.

Because if it's true that God is out there to punish you, it will be redundant for God to send Jesus Christ to die on behalf of your sins.

He would have not sent.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 18 2013, 10:29 AM

Let’s assume you have already repeatedly told me of the answer, jst that my brain couldn’t decipher what you said as information to broaden my mind. I guess to put it in religious term, my faith is not strong enough to be enlightened by you. Jst that somehow, what unknown warrior said below, is quite simple and clear. I guess understanding between us two, are not meant to be crossed.









Ok, what you said above made a lot of sense. At least clearer than what I get from prophetjul.

So let me reiterate lest I misunderstood.

God came up with the 10 commandments to prove to us human that we are flawed. That it is impossible to meet His standard of acceptance. And that if we are to concede and accept Him, He will receive us.

Bluntly put, He gave us a set of unachievable goals and see how long it would take us to admit to Him that we couldn’t achieve it?

Isnt that worst than trolling?

Like imagine if I have a son, and he’s not the brightest somehow. Yet I give him passing mark that I believe he couldn’t achieve. And being stubborn, he continue trying to prove me wrong. And if human could live to a thousand years, he would been proving it to me the next thousand years. Yet let’s assume that he failed till the end.

So what does that make him? And what does that make me?

Him – full of determination and never give up spirit.
Me – Everything a son despise of as a father.

So tell me, why would I so desperately need my son’s acknowledgement that he couldn’t achieve it? And why would my son wanted to prove me wrong so badly using this method?

And finally, why even this method of letting ego slip into each other’s head?

Is not there other way God could show us Love and Acceptance? Instead of to bow to Him? To accept and say, we couldn’t do what you commanded and are You happy now? We have failed miserably. Is this how You want to see? Is this what You want to see? You created us with enough flaw knowing that we couldn’t meet all 10 commandments and You jst wait for us to break?

Is this truly the one that we claim to be superior? A superior being that not only wanted to be acknowledged as a superior being, but accepted, embraced and along the way, degrade human beings further?