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 Fundsupermart.com v2, Learn about DIY unit trust investing

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kangwoo
post Apr 11 2013, 11:32 PM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Apr 11 2013, 11:22 PM)
Have to see the Tax Voucher then only know whether that RM0.01 gone is due to tax or expenses. But my guess is expenses, as based on last Financial Statements, OSK-UOB Income Fund's incomes does not attract any tax charge.

Basically what they tell u in the Tax Voucher is:

Gross distribution
- Taxation
- Expenses
= Net distribution

E.g.
Fund gross income = RM10m
Total expenses = RM2m
Fund net income = RM8m

FM declares RM5m distribution i.e. 50% of gross income

Let's imagine u own 100% of the fund's units laugh.gif

Your Tax Voucher will look something like this:
Gross distribution: RM5m
Expenses: RM1m
Net distribution: RM4m

Any fund accountant around? I'm only a ciplak junior accountant, my understanding may be wrong notworthy.gif
But u get the general idea? icon_idea.gif 

As long as u bought before ex-date, u are entitled to the distribution. But in case u have not read the FAQs on Post #1, distributions/dividends mean nothing to the value of your investments. Let's say u buy just 1 day before ex-date, the effect of distribution is like 10 - 1 + 1 = 10.
*
thanks..understand now but still beginer so many thing have to learn from guru like u

dont hw to check dividend from clicks...saw dividend in signalinvest

SUSPink Spider
post Apr 11 2013, 11:35 PM

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QUOTE(kangwoo @ Apr 11 2013, 11:32 PM)
thanks..understand now but still beginer so many thing have to learn from guru like u

dont hw to check dividend from clicks...saw dividend in signalinvest
*
I'm no guru la, just have some passion for unit trusts icon_rolleyes.gif
kangwoo
post Apr 11 2013, 11:39 PM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Apr 11 2013, 11:35 PM)
I'm no guru la, just have some passion for unit trusts icon_rolleyes.gif
*
at least can learn from u rclxms.gif
pisces88
post Apr 11 2013, 11:53 PM

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QUOTE(jerrymax @ Apr 11 2013, 07:57 AM)
Regular savings plan encik. RSP, not PRS. lol
*
Haha I see.. Regular savings plan huh? Okay will read about it tomorrow after work smile.gif
SKY 1809
post Apr 12 2013, 10:59 AM

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QUOTE(kangwoo @ Apr 11 2013, 10:47 PM)
yes finally my funds +gain  rclxm9.gif  small2 capital

OSK-UOB Smart Income Fund                   RM 36.39          Dividend    = 9%
OSK-UOB KidSave Trust                           RM 162.89  Dividend   =13.5%
OSK-UOB Emerging Opportunity Unit Trust   RM 85.86          Dividend   =11%
how much to you target for your funds?

bond : 7%
balance : 9%
equity : 11%
*
Hello Brother,

Calling unit distributions as Dividends are grossly misleading, eps if u compared them to EPF yearly Div.

Distribution OFTEN could consist a big portion of your capital returning back to u, even if there is a very small profit made by an unit trust co.

Many use the Unit Trust " distribution rate" as Dividends to run down EPF performances , is it Fair ?



This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Apr 12 2013, 11:01 AM
SUSPink Spider
post Apr 12 2013, 11:05 AM

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QUOTE(SKY 1809 @ Apr 12 2013, 10:59 AM)
Hello Brother,

Calling unit distributions as Dividends are  grossly misleading, eps if u compared them to EPF yearly Div.

Distribution OFTEN  could consist a big portion of your capital returning  back to u, even if there is a very small profit made by an unit trust co.

Many use the Unit Trust " distribution rate"  as Dividends  to run down EPF performances , is it Fair ?
*
Yo SKY bro,

TOTALLY agree with you, UT dividends are like, 10 - 1 + 1 = 10, hence I went to great lengths to write the FAQs at Post #1 nod.gif

But, historical data of the above average unit trust equity and balanced funds (and there are quite many of them) does show that the TOTAL RETURN does indeed beat EPF dividend return. icon_rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by Pink Spider: Apr 12 2013, 11:07 AM
SKY 1809
post Apr 12 2013, 11:06 AM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Apr 11 2013, 11:22 PM)
Have to see the Tax Voucher then only know whether that RM0.01 gone is due to tax or expenses. But my guess is expenses, as based on last Financial Statements, OSK-UOB Income Fund's incomes does not attract any tax charge.

Basically what they tell u in the Tax Voucher is:

Gross distribution
- Taxation
- Expenses
= Net distribution

E.g.
Fund gross income = RM10m
Total expenses = RM2m
Fund net income = RM8m

FM declares RM5m distribution i.e. 50% of gross income

Let's imagine u own 100% of the fund's units laugh.gif

Your Tax Voucher will look something like this:
Gross distribution: RM5m
Expenses: RM1m
Net distribution: RM4m

Any fund accountant around? I'm only a ciplak junior accountant, my understanding may be wrong notworthy.gif
But u get the general idea? icon_idea.gif 

As long as u bought before ex-date, u are entitled to the distribution. But in case u have not read the FAQs on Post #1, distributions/dividends mean nothing to the value of your investments. Let's say u buy just 1 day before ex-date, the effect of distribution is like 10 - 1 + 1 = 10.
*
I am not an Accountant either, but I think u are wrong .

What is An Income Fund BTW, and since when Unit Trusts have extra tax exemptions on Dividends like REITS ?

Do u need to pay tax if they distribute yr capital or their Cap Gain back to u ?

Mind to share more on these ?

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Apr 12 2013, 11:10 AM
SUSPink Spider
post Apr 12 2013, 11:10 AM

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QUOTE(SKY 1809 @ Apr 12 2013, 11:06 AM)
I am not an Accountant either, but I think u are wrong .

What is An Income Fund BTW, and since when Unit Trusts have extra tax  exemptions on Dividends like REITS ?

Mind to share more on these ?
*
Tax on dividends are imputed to the unit trust fund, and when the unit trust fund makes distributions (note that I always avoid the use of the term dividend cos I also find it misleading), the tax is imputed to unitholders.

U know Section 108 tax imputation system?
Company pays tax > declares gross dividend > shareholders receive net dividend, tax imputed to shareholders

E.g.
Company tax rate 25%
Your personal tax rate 10%
GROSS dividend RM100
U receive NET dividend RM75
U can claim back RM15 from IRB

The general principles are like that. But under single-tier system, u get RM75, and that's it. No tax credit claimable.

But, more and more companies are switching to the single-tier system, dividends paid are exempt from tax. Actually not really "exempt" la, tax is charged at source (company profits), and shareholders cannot claim back any tax credits anymore.

My recent UT Tax Vouchers all show zero tax already.

This post has been edited by Pink Spider: Apr 12 2013, 11:20 AM
SKY 1809
post Apr 12 2013, 11:14 AM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Apr 12 2013, 11:10 AM)
Tax on dividends are imputed to the unit trust fund, and when the unit trust fund makes distributions (note that I always avoid the use of the term dividend cos I also find it misleading), the tax is imputed to unitholders.

U know Section 108 tax imputation system?
Company pays tax > declares gross dividend > shareholders receive net dividend, tax imputed to shareholders

But, more and more companies are switching to the single-tier system, dividends paid are exempt from tax. Actually not really "exempt" la, tax is charged at source (company profits), and shareholders cannot claim back any tax credits anymore.

My recent UT Tax Vouchers all show zero tax already.
*
So you do not need to contribute EPF , right ? Zero contribution from u ?

because your co does everything for u. Contribution made at source , mah ?

BTW, do u get extra money from Single Tier System with Zero Tax as u say ?

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Apr 12 2013, 12:54 PM
SUSPink Spider
post Apr 12 2013, 11:15 AM

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QUOTE(SKY 1809 @ Apr 12 2013, 11:14 AM)
So you do not need to contribute EPF , right  ? Zero contribution from u ?

because your co does everything for u. Contribution made  at source , mah ?
*
What has EPF got to do with dividends??? rclxub.gif
SUSPink Spider
post Apr 12 2013, 11:19 AM

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QUOTE(SKY 1809 @ Apr 12 2013, 11:14 AM)
BTW, do u get extra money from Single Tier System with Zero Tax as u say ?
*
No. On the contrary, we (ppl with tax bracket lower than 25%) actually lose some money. See my 2nd last post.
SKY 1809
post Apr 12 2013, 11:25 AM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Apr 12 2013, 11:19 AM)
No. On the contrary, we (ppl with tax bracket lower than 25%) actually lose some money. See my 2nd last post.
*
The post is one thing, but discussions going on give plenty of false info , either intentionally or otherwise.

BTW. EPF makes plenty of profits each year, but decides to give u a consistent % each year.

Can any UT co does a consistent return of their profit back to u. let say at 7% return hmm.gif

Depending whether u are farsighted or shortsighted because many cannot see very far .

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Apr 12 2013, 11:28 AM
SUSPink Spider
post Apr 12 2013, 11:27 AM

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QUOTE(SKY 1809 @ Apr 12 2013, 11:25 AM)
The post is one thing, but discussions going on give plenty of false info , either intentionally or otherwise.

BTW. EPF make plenty of profits each year, but decides to give u a consistent % each year.

Can any UT co does a consistent return of their profit back to u. hmm.gif

Depending u are farsighted or shortsighted because many cannot see very far .
*
Please quote the "false info" sleep.gif

U want a share of UT COMPANY PROFITS? U don't buy UTs, u should buy their shares...AmBank Group...HwangDBS...Public Bank Group... whistling.gif

This post has been edited by Pink Spider: Apr 12 2013, 11:28 AM
SKY 1809
post Apr 12 2013, 11:29 AM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Apr 12 2013, 11:27 AM)
Please quote the "false info" sleep.gif

U want a share of UT COMPANY PROFITS? U don't buy UTs, u should buy their shares...AmBank Group...HwangDBS...Public Bank Group... whistling.gif
*
All UT profits made belonged to unit trust holders , not belonging to any banks like what u say .

That is why I say many give false info here. They cannot share your profits .

PLse highlight to me, any part of contract has " Sharing of Profit " clause.

But if UT loses money , management fees still collected .

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Apr 12 2013, 11:36 AM
SUSPink Spider
post Apr 12 2013, 11:35 AM

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QUOTE(SKY 1809 @ Apr 12 2013, 11:29 AM)
All UT profits made belonged to unit trust holders , not belonging to any banks like what u say .
*
U were saying "UT co profits" mad.gif

I feel that u do not have a clear understanding of what UT stands for.

A UT pool the money of investors and invests on behalf of investors.
UT charge a fixed management fee to investors (as a % of Net Asset Value under management, usually 1-1.8% p.a.) --> UT co revenue/profits
ALL PROFITS/(LOSSES) OF THE FUND ACCRUE TO THE INVESTORS.

E.g.
UT FUND (NOT company) makes 20% gain (after deducting expenses), ALL 20% belong to investors.
EPF makes 20% gain, only the declared dividend belong to you. E.g. declare 5% dividend, the balance "undeclared gains" are kept with EPF. U cannot take even 1 sen from there.

Please get the difference right.

The UT co is only a manager, NOT a partner. They won't share your losses, in the same manner they won't share your gains.

Until you get the technical and legal framework of UTs right, my replies to you stop here.

This post has been edited by Pink Spider: Apr 12 2013, 11:37 AM
SKY 1809
post Apr 12 2013, 11:38 AM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Apr 12 2013, 11:35 AM)
U were saying "UT co profits" mad.gif

I feel that u do not have a clear understanding of what UT stands for.

A UT pool the money of investors and invests on behalf of investors.
UT charge a fixed management fee to investors (as a % of Net Asset Value under management, usually 1-1.8% p.a.) --> UT co revenue/profits
ALL PROFITS/(LOSSES) OF THE FUND ACCRUE TO THE INVESTORS.

UT FUND (NOT company) makes 20% gain (after deducting expenses), ALL 20% belong to investors.
EPF makes 20% gain, only the declared dividend belong to you. E.g. declare 5% dividend, the balance "undeclared gains" are kept with EPF. U cannot take even 1 sen from there.

Please get the difference right.

The UT co is only a manager, NOT a partner. They won't share your losses, in the same manner they won't share your gains.
*
Where is the " Sharing of Profit " as you just said

U want a share of UT COMPANY PROFITS? U don't buy UTs, u should buy their shares...AmBank Group...HwangDBS...Public Bank Group...

BTW , IF got sharing of profit by them , means they cannot charge u for management fees if it is losing money lor

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Apr 12 2013, 11:40 AM
SUSPink Spider
post Apr 12 2013, 11:42 AM

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QUOTE(SKY 1809 @ Apr 12 2013, 11:38 AM)
Where is the " Sharing of Profit " as you just said

U want a share of UT COMPANY PROFITS? U don't buy UTs, u should buy their shares...AmBank Group...HwangDBS...Public Bank Group...
*
E.g. U buy AmDynamic Bond, AmInvestment Services Berhad charges u management fee of 1% p.a.

The 1% is the UT company revenue/profit.

I never said that there is a sharing of profit/(loss). I only replied to you, that IF u want a share of the Fund Manager's profit, u should buy the SHARES of their holding company, be their shareholder, not to buy their unit trust funds.

This post has been edited by Pink Spider: Apr 12 2013, 11:44 AM
SKY 1809
post Apr 12 2013, 11:45 AM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Apr 12 2013, 11:35 AM)
U were saying "UT co profits" mad.gif

I feel that u do not have a clear understanding of what UT stands for.

A UT pool the money of investors and invests on behalf of investors.
UT charge a fixed management fee to investors (as a % of Net Asset Value under management, usually 1-1.8% p.a.) --> UT co revenue/profits
ALL PROFITS/(LOSSES) OF THE FUND ACCRUE TO THE INVESTORS.

E.g.
UT FUND (NOT company) makes 20% gain (after deducting expenses), ALL 20% belong to investors.
EPF makes 20% gain, only the declared dividend belong to you. E.g. declare 5% dividend, the balance "undeclared gains" are kept with EPF. U cannot take even 1 sen from there.

Please get the difference right.

The UT co is only a manager, NOT a partner. They won't share your losses, in the same manner they won't share your gains.

Until you get the technical and legal framework of UTs right, my replies to you stop here.
*
Your knowledge of UT is kinda limited, just using copy , cut and paste here and there.

Worse thing is , u just use many " interchangeable " terms everywhere to mislead people.

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Apr 12 2013, 11:46 AM
SUSPink Spider
post Apr 12 2013, 11:46 AM

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QUOTE(SKY 1809 @ Apr 12 2013, 11:45 AM)
Your knowledge of UT is kinda limited, just using copy , paste and cut here and there.

Worse thing is , u just use many  " interchangeable " terms everywhere to mislead people.
*
Quote the points. Prove me wrong.

Failing which, U TAK SUKA, U KELUAR

This post has been edited by Pink Spider: Apr 12 2013, 11:46 AM
SKY 1809
post Apr 12 2013, 11:48 AM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Apr 12 2013, 11:42 AM)
E.g. U buy AmDynamic Bond, AmInvestment Services Berhad charges u management fee of 1% p.a.

The 1% is the UT company revenue/profit.

I never said that there is a sharing of profit/(loss). I only replied to you, that IF u want a share of the Fund Manager's profit, u should buy the SHARES of their holding company, be their shareholder, not to buy their unit trust funds.
*
Beg to diff again.

1% charge is on NAV on regular funds.

NAV is very huge compared to profit , or revenue of UT.

" UT charge a fixed management fee to investors (as a % of Net Asset Value under management, usually 1-1.8% p.a."

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Apr 12 2013, 12:12 PM

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