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 Fundsupermart.com v2, Learn about DIY unit trust investing

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SKY 1809
post Apr 12 2013, 12:18 PM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Apr 12 2013, 11:10 AM)
Tax on dividends are imputed to the unit trust fund, and when the unit trust fund makes distributions (note that I always avoid the use of the term dividend cos I also find it misleading), the tax is imputed to unitholders.

U know Section 108 tax imputation system?
Company pays tax > declares gross dividend > shareholders receive net dividend, tax imputed to shareholders

E.g.
Company tax rate 25%
Your personal tax rate 10%
GROSS dividend RM100
U receive NET dividend RM75
U can claim back RM15 from IRB

The general principles are like that. But under single-tier system, u get RM75, and that's it. No tax credit claimable.

But, more and more companies are switching to the single-tier system, dividends paid are exempt from tax. Actually not really "exempt" la, tax is charged at source (company profits), and shareholders cannot claim back any tax credits anymore.

My recent UT Tax Vouchers all show zero tax already.
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Another copy cut and paste laugh.gif

My earlier Questions as below :-

I am not an Accountant either, but I think u are wrong .

What is An Income Fund BTW, and since when Unit Trusts have extra tax exemptions on Dividends like REITS ?

Do u need to pay tax if they distribute yr capital or their Cap Gain back to u ?

Mind to share more on these ?
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Your example :_

E.g.
Fund gross income = RM10m
Total expenses = RM2m
Fund net income = RM8m

FM declares RM5m distribution i.e. 50% of gross income


Let's imagine u own 100% of the fund's units laugh.gif

Your Tax Voucher will look something like this:
Gross distribution: RM5m
Expenses: RM1m
Net distribution: RM4m

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Apr 12 2013, 12:28 PM
SKY 1809
post Apr 12 2013, 01:44 PM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Apr 12 2013, 11:42 AM)
E.g. U buy AmDynamic Bond, AmInvestment Services Berhad charges u management fee of 1% p.a.

The 1% is the UT company revenue/profit.

I never said that there is a sharing of profit/(loss). I only replied to you, that IF u want a share of the Fund Manager's profit, u should buy the SHARES of their holding company, be their shareholder, not to buy their unit trust funds.
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I doubt UT has any Holding Co on top of their structures i.e they are not the subsidiaries of the banks per se hmm.gif

As I say earlier, UT belongs to the unit trust holders aka no holding company.

Funds Managers, I do hear of .

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Apr 12 2013, 01:48 PM
SKY 1809
post Apr 12 2013, 09:20 PM

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QUOTE(felixmask @ Apr 12 2013, 08:24 PM)
notworthy.gif sky gor1809  notworthy.gif  and  notworthy.gif  pink spider  notworthy.gif ,

     Both have your point & both you are sifu of sifu,  basically i want to summarize is UT made attrative to uncle aunty and newbies know nuts of stock but trust those Fund manage to invest in their money in stock for return of investment gain.

1) No one point the gun to buy UT or Sifu can advice to buy which stock - Aunty Uncle and NewBies that dont know reading Financial Report so they rely on Fund Manage to the job . So Fund manager need salary for their duty the reason we hv service charge and annual fee.

2) UT come different fund theme and  standard NAV which are affordable in term minimun investment compare stock.
 
3) UT is group of stock, the NAV wont Fluctuate so huge compare stock in single day, give peace of mind for aunty uncle & newbies sleep soundly every nite.
  
4) What UT fund manager do is pick the stock sync with theme either own country or mix of countries of thousand stock in the market.

5) UT distribution not same as dividend of the stock. Even some stock fly up before the ex date and drop later. Ppl juz want the dividend then dont want  hold longer the stock. UT can disburse the dividend like stock, but UT hv financial closing and fixed date to declare the "Distribution" so call missunderstand "Dividend"   , deduct from investment given away sure the total investment will drop then the NAV reflect will drop.

6)  UT alwasy a long term investment. Left money pocket go in, right money go out.

forgive me... i said wrong and my infor give not the same thought. Im juz an IT  wub.gif  guy staying late at office answer both your   vmad.gif argument.
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Kinda true like what u say UT is a very good tool for investments , just that I do not agree with some people for giving misleading info about the performances of UT to impress others.

Frankly at this point of time, I sold my UT and parked back to EPF account for capital protection with reasonable EPF dividend rates of late. I am rather happy with EPF nowaday, and capital protection is my priority at the moment, which many UT cannot provide. Bonds come with the risks too these days.

1) I follow my own investment /asset allocation method to low yields with less risk like Cash, taking into the consideration of Malaysia and Overseas performances at the moment. It is my own interpretation anyway.

2) As u may know I have invested in some other stocks too like Tambun and UEMland and so on. I would would continue to examine stocks with low PE come with a reasonable dividends yield with + - 5%. Eyeing on MBL and so on.

3) Even if reits fall to a attractive levels, I would pick up some along the way.

All in all, I think many markets could be peaking, with very fragile economy worldwide. I take the precautions and so on. Meanwhile waiting and reading more reports along the ways.

Well some people believe in "stay invested" no matter how, but I go for asset allocations with some cash in hand /bonds/reits .

Well it is my plan. No problems if others want to buy more UT so long the old uncles and aunties are not misled.

Regards

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Apr 12 2013, 09:46 PM
SKY 1809
post Apr 13 2013, 10:50 AM

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QUOTE(felixmask @ Apr 13 2013, 09:56 AM)
somtimes ppl said timing not good - but i would like said made own target price NAV or STOCK i want to enter, else my money park under bond or FD. Like wise during 2008/2009 financial crisis i got put my EPF investment to UT. Now  gain 30% - 40% purchase @0.50NAV Public Mutual Regular Saving. I do invest other fund like OSKUOB AREF, this fund performance not so good for my case.

When come to opportunity is the person to take the risk to invest. Yes when i invest i do drop below the NAV i bought - slowly come up and above the NAV. Same to stock. Investor my evaluate is the TP or NAV of stock or UT is attractive level like sky 18909 mention.

What every go up can come down to NAV or Stock - all come to few below reason
1) Business failure - when come to crisis like renong 1997, AIG bailout ,alot business impacted when Too Big to Fall happen.
2) Investor play contra when one  digging other stock hole to cover another hole. The not choice to sell their stock
3) Banking and Insurance & MNC are interlink to worldwide market, if one country hv flu their neighbour will get the same sickness.

Previously i invest in UT - now i hv opt to switch to stock becoz the my wisdom gain from sifu about that give me confident when and what to invest in stock.

When NAV drop becoz of market momentum bad we cant blame Fund manager for those aunty uncle and newbies not realise the prospetus mention the market momemtum drive the UT NAV. UT is a collection of stock of mix countries market of theme invested by fund manager. I do loss money in UT especially PCSF  dam  really upset me becoz montly i hv do DCA to break even and take myself to be PM agent to cover the clawback  the service charge as comission

Buying stock or UT dont rush - no point chasing hight when come down up to individual to accept the capital loss. Juz wait the ccomfortable price to enter - else play short buy low and sell high later cut loss.

My theory may not work or agree by other which hv their own theory investing. It juz my way and juz my money.
Noting right or best - but up my fate to brass the stormy financialy & economy.

2sen  whistling.gif  wind after wake up in the morning on sat.

[attachmentid=3390164]
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You are right that the investors themselves are to be blamed. But on the other hand, not all UT managers are equally good. If they are good, some in 1, 3 or 5 years, not across the board type. So efforts must be made to evaluate them to your own needs and so on.

Just to give an example, I was very hesitated when PM China funds were selling like hot cakes because at that moment of time, I thought Chinese economy needed to cool down a lot ( through active forum discussions and so on ). So I went for PM Consumer Theme fund which I thought should do well then ( Year 2009 or so ).

Nowaday, I try not to follow herd behaviors , but do things a bit here and there on my own.

And also some times I may think the markets should move up, but funds managers decided to keep a big portion of the money collected in their cash accounts. Again , I feel quite frustrated .

And the other thing , most funds would like to stay put in the same stocks for a long time wise collecting good management fees without doing further researches.

They may sell me the concept of long term, but to me they are overpaid and under work ( just my thinking only ). And again sometimes they prefer to keep about 40% cash then ?

Well, once u are graduating in the markets with your own mindsets, then u would not just " Listen, Listen and Listen " only.

Brother, I also want u to progress well in this manner too. Once you are doing well, you would not have to listen to all the callings to buy, you analyse facts and figures and economies and so on.

All the best.

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Apr 13 2013, 11:09 AM
SKY 1809
post Apr 13 2013, 12:34 PM

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QUOTE(felixmask @ Apr 13 2013, 12:18 PM)
thats why must READ FORUM LOWYAT - FINANCE, BUSINESS & INVESTMENT.
made own judgment what to pick.
UT FUND MANAGER never guarantee return
never Trust Research IB TP calling buy or sell.

:nod:Boring reach office after lunch filling income tax. rclxub.gif
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Well , most funds would not give u a capital return guarantee .

That is the beauty of EPF if u analyse carefully.
SKY 1809
post Apr 13 2013, 12:39 PM

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QUOTE(gark @ Apr 13 2013, 12:35 PM)
No not ETF.. UT lor...

Ya lor I see so high performance.. i also scared.. buts seems legit.. cause morningstar give 5 star.  sweat.gif

Gains since Inception (1997) = 5,578.38%.... drool.gif
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I am waiting for Guru Gark to launch his UT Funds hmm.gif

like Capital guarantee plus min 10% return a year ( to beat EPF ) .
SKY 1809
post Apr 13 2013, 02:00 PM

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QUOTE(felixmask @ Apr 13 2013, 12:52 PM)
Im not sifu, juz luckily and stupid UT investor.

my concept different other like pxxk sxxxxr or wxxxxxxxxxxg.  i top up after distribution 1-2 month.
Buy new fund or fund NAV below the launching NAV. Any above NAV launching not interest juz wait for crisis or put in BOND fund.
I didnt calculate which fund history result of XIRR or ROI.

I have few fund at Public Mutual , did the repeat cycle during 2007- 2011 for equity fund.
Now juz i move 60% to bond fund left 40% in equity. I didnt do any transaction to PM anymore.
Becoz i purchase a condo, that my PM as my emergency money reserve paying 1/4 loan.

I move UT to STOCK counter like reits & telco. 2011 is full time saving/investing in stock counter only.

What i interest is Fund Interim report show their purchase price of the stock.

My stock return is better than UT. becoz I know what the big fund holding price.
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My Takaful did go up by 200% last year. Tambun is also not too bad + 50% or so.

I think I have a bit of luck here and there icon_rolleyes.gif

No plan to outperform myself this year but going for capital conservation..........

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Apr 13 2013, 02:02 PM
SKY 1809
post Apr 13 2013, 02:08 PM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Apr 13 2013, 01:25 PM)
True. A fund house got a number of investment managers, each with his own set of skills and expertise. Hence, its only normal that a fund house will have some winners and some losers.
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That is the beauty of operating a UT fund.

Even if u have a 3rd class investment team, management fee charged is still on par with the market rates.

Where else u can have this type of business where all film stars are paid the same rate. laugh.gif

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Apr 13 2013, 02:15 PM
SKY 1809
post Apr 13 2013, 02:22 PM

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QUOTE(gark @ Apr 13 2013, 12:29 PM)
No lah ... want to learn earn a bit of KFC from sifu here mah... sweat.gif

Recently saw 1 UT...0.5% management fee, 2% purchase fee... 5 years gain = 332.76%... YTD (3 months) = 14.73%.

Seems like gooding?  sweat.gif Scared to buy... laugh.gif
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Private Investment Funds in US do pretty well too.


SKY 1809
post Apr 13 2013, 02:34 PM

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QUOTE(gark @ Apr 13 2013, 02:32 PM)
U mean hedge funds? Need to be accredited investor.. minimum 1 mil USD. Sinkapor also got... laugh.gif
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Well if they can really perform, then money is not an issue to you.
SKY 1809
post Apr 13 2013, 02:43 PM

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QUOTE(felixmask @ Apr 13 2013, 02:40 PM)
m'sia dont hv ..gark and sky gor can open fund company at m'sia.
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Well, I can perform up to Pasar Malam Level, whereas Gark is at International Standard.

There is a big diff to manage a small pool of fund vs a huge pool of money. notworthy.gif

SKY 1809
post Apr 16 2013, 11:29 AM

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QUOTE(jerrymax @ Apr 16 2013, 09:46 AM)
This few days red red day?
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Cheap, could be getting cheaper hmm.gif



This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Apr 16 2013, 11:32 AM
SKY 1809
post Apr 16 2013, 02:18 PM

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Why discuss Gold in every thread..........

Gold crazy everywhere laugh.gif

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Apr 16 2013, 02:18 PM
SKY 1809
post Apr 16 2013, 03:57 PM

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Market Tumble an Overdue Reality Check?

This week's sell-off in global financial markets, which has spared few asset classes, is a reflection of investors reassessing their outlook for the global economy, said investment strategists, as the recovery in the world's two largest economies exhibit signs of weakness.

"Investors are a lot more concerned given what we've seen in terms of data - whether it's China, commodities, gold. It's fair to say that consensus estimates have been quite high and now is the time for investors to be realistic about expectations in terms of growth numbers, prices," Medha Samant, investment director, Asian equities at Fidelity Worldwide Investment told CNBC on Tuesday.

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Apr 16 2013, 03:58 PM
SKY 1809
post Apr 17 2013, 08:10 PM

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I see many are buying Ex Japan funds but.....

Fund Managers Say Goodbye China, Hello Japan.

Growing investor bullishness over the outlook for Japan's economy is being met by evaporating optimism for China, whose equity market has been among the world's worst performers this year, according to the latest Bank of America Merrill Lynch fund manager survey published on Thursday.
SKY 1809
post Apr 17 2013, 08:14 PM

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QUOTE(David83 @ Apr 17 2013, 08:11 PM)
Japan has been pretty bullish for the past few weeks.

Asia ex Japan doesn't necessary to be heavily in China/Hong Kong.
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Ex Japan means u could be out of the most upcoming bullish region/market hmm.gif

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Apr 17 2013, 08:16 PM
SKY 1809
post Apr 17 2013, 08:22 PM

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QUOTE(David83 @ Apr 17 2013, 08:16 PM)
Yes but Japan equities are pretty volatile and its only nation has no faith over Abeconomics.

Read this article: http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?f...27&sec=business
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Time would tell......
SKY 1809
post Apr 18 2013, 01:09 PM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Apr 18 2013, 11:58 AM)
Pray today red red kaw kaw, tomorrow last day oredy for the diskaun tongue.gif
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If US unemployment rate is going from bad to worse again, then u see more discounts later on.

Cheap would become much cheaper again.


SKY 1809
post Apr 18 2013, 01:41 PM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Apr 18 2013, 01:27 PM)
Aiya buy la buy la, lazy to monitor Hang Seng and STI for the rest of the day yawn.gif
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Pasar Malam promotion style hmm.gif

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Apr 18 2013, 01:41 PM
SKY 1809
post Apr 18 2013, 01:52 PM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Apr 18 2013, 01:48 PM)
How it's like?

What if u purposely fail the assessment? tongue.gif
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Mere Risk assessments.

Worst still can buy bonds ........how to fail hmm.gif

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Apr 18 2013, 01:53 PM

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