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EPF DIVIDEND, EPF
TheEquatorian
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Oct 27 2021, 12:36 PM
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It’s not another article, the same as the investpedia page. Check the source. Same reasoning as I mentioned before, a small mutual fund run by a single manager. EPF is a provident fund and passed this stage at inception. QUOTE(prophetjul @ Oct 27 2021, 09:13 AM) Another article to explain the difficulties of large funds, especially an open ended one like EPF https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/mutual-fun...matter-1.809389 This post has been edited by TheEquatorian: Oct 27 2021, 12:36 PM
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SUSyklooi
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Oct 27 2021, 12:41 PM
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depends on the size of the fund and the size of the market capitalization of the market that the fund invested in... if the % of the money is too big for a particular market,...then it may be a problem for the true effective earning of the fund
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prophetjul
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Oct 27 2021, 01:20 PM
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QUOTE(TheEquatorian @ Oct 27 2021, 12:36 PM) It’s not another article, the same as the investpedia page. Check the source. Same reasoning as I mentioned before, a small mutual fund run by a single manager. EPF is a provident fund and passed this stage at inception. Whether it is small, mid or large and its all relative, this statement still holds true: QUOTE Open-ended mutual funds have a great track record of expanding to mammoth sizes quickly as investors flock to these growing funds. But it is possible for funds to get too large and cause problems for fund managers and investors. In this article we'll show you how to handle the rapid growth of these funds and how to determine whether these funds are a good fit for your investing strategy. That is the reason EPF had to venture overseas, no? This post has been edited by prophetjul: Oct 27 2021, 01:20 PM
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TheEquatorian
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Oct 27 2021, 02:44 PM
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Venturing overseas is also because foreign investors pushed Malaysia since some time back to relax on govt ownership in Bursa. There is limited liquidity for them to be interested in the market. QUOTE(prophetjul @ Oct 27 2021, 01:20 PM) Whether it is small, mid or large and its all relative, this statement still holds true: That is the reason EPF had to venture overseas, no?
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SUSxander83
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Oct 27 2021, 02:50 PM
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QUOTE(TheEquatorian @ Oct 27 2021, 12:36 PM) It’s not another article, the same as the investpedia page. Check the source. Same reasoning as I mentioned before, a small mutual fund run by a single manager. EPF is a provident fund and passed this stage at inception. Why compare mutual fund when provident is run by an investment committee or board?
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prophetjul
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Oct 27 2021, 03:18 PM
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QUOTE(TheEquatorian @ Oct 27 2021, 02:44 PM) Venturing overseas is also because foreign investors pushed Malaysia since some time back to relax on govt ownership in Bursa. There is limited liquidity for them to be interested in the market. Sorry. But what has foreign investors into Msia got to do with EPF going offshore?
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plc255
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Oct 27 2021, 04:04 PM
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Getting Started
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KLSE total whole market cap is 1855 billion.
EPF fund size is around 1000 billion.
Let's just assume or imagine that EPF have a freely assign fund manager that can invest anyhow (which EPF is NOT)
If all of EPF fund is use to buy equity in KLSE, EPF have to own > 50% of everything, everything in KLSE. Good or rubbish counters, everything, 50%.
In this context,
a person with RM100,000 can buy topglove and sell at rm200,000 last year and make 100% profit, hence handsomely beat the institution return.
EPF can buy the entire topglove (a mere 21b relative to EPF size of 1000b, or 2.1% portfolio), and want to sell at double of the price there is no one to sell to. EPF can also buy the entire maybank (market cap only 97b) , and want to sell double of the price there is no one to sell to.
and so on..
and if EPF own entire topglove and sell at double the price, it merely move the dividend by 0.x%, not even enough to start dreaming of double digit return.
But a person dream of 100% return or more!
It is only human nature for people to assume out performance relative to EPF, and keep demanding that EPF should get better return.
After all half of Malaysian had vested interest in EPF, and better performance of EPF is indeed a happier (half of) Malaysia indeed.
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TheEquatorian
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Oct 27 2021, 05:04 PM
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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Oct 27 2021, 03:18 PM) Sorry. But what has foreign investors into Msia got to do with EPF going offshore? It all started during Najib premiership when foreign investors wanted less control on Bursa by SOEs for them to increase investments. He started to dismantle it but not fully. On EPFs independence from govt, I leave it unsaid.
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SUSxander83
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Oct 27 2021, 07:37 PM
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QUOTE(TheEquatorian @ Oct 27 2021, 05:04 PM) It all started during Najib premiership when foreign investors wanted less control on Bursa by SOEs for them to increase investments. He started to dismantle it but not fully. On EPFs independence from govt, I leave it unsaid. Unless it is privatised or public listed it will be never be independent from the govt because EPF Act can be influence whoever is in power
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SUSshamino_00
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Oct 28 2021, 09:35 AM
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Getting Started
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EPF investment strategy via SAA
Equities,stocks/shares 42% Fixed Income, bonds 46% Money Market 7% Infrastructure, properties 5%
About 30% of EPF investment overseas
So if EPF have fund around 1 trillion and 42% in equities in local stocks Bursa, with 30% overseas, this mean 70%x 42, around 30% of the fund play locally. About maybe 200~300 billion local bursa have EPF monies in it looking for yield and gain.
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MUM
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Oct 28 2021, 11:17 AM
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QUOTE(shamino_00 @ Oct 28 2021, 09:35 AM) EPF investment strategy via SAA Equities,stocks/shares 42% Fixed Income, bonds 46% Money Market 7% Infrastructure, properties 5% About 30% of EPF investment overseas So if EPF have fund around 1 trillion and 42% in equities in local stocks Bursa, with 30% overseas, this mean 70%x 42, around 30% of the fund play locally. About maybe 200~300 billion local bursa have EPF monies in it looking for yield and gain. thanks for sharing,... if add in monies from KWAP, TH, ASNB and other GLC financial institutions/boards, ....WOW,....then a very high % of BURSA are "controlled" This post has been edited by MUM: Oct 28 2021, 11:18 AM
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TOS
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Oct 28 2021, 12:44 PM
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QUOTE(MUM @ Oct 28 2021, 11:17 AM) thanks for sharing,... if add in monies from KWAP, TH, ASNB and other GLC financial institutions/boards, ....WOW,....then a very high % of BURSA are "controlled" It has long been suggested that GLCs should give up some of their stakes in the local markets. https://www.google.com/search?q=GLC+market+cap+malaysiaQUOTE The government estimates that GLCs employ around 5% of the national workforce and account for approximately 36% and 54%, respectively, of the market capitalization of Bursa Malaysia and the benchmark Kuala Lumpur Composite Index. (2013 data)
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SUSxander83
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Oct 28 2021, 05:19 PM
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QUOTE(MUM @ Oct 28 2021, 11:17 AM) thanks for sharing,... if add in monies from KWAP, TH, ASNB and other GLC financial institutions/boards, ....WOW,....then a very high % of BURSA are "controlled" Already long time are controlled since day 1 QUOTE(TOS @ Oct 28 2021, 12:44 PM) It has long been suggested that GLCs should give up some of their stakes in the local markets. https://www.google.com/search?q=GLC+market+cap+malaysia (2013 data) Najib did try to dismantle it but failed badly
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MUM
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Oct 28 2021, 05:25 PM
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QUOTE(xander83 @ Oct 28 2021, 05:19 PM) Already long time are controlled since day 1 .......... that is old story, most already knew. ..do you have any idea of the % controlled? This post has been edited by MUM: Oct 28 2021, 05:26 PM
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SUSxander83
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Oct 28 2021, 05:35 PM
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QUOTE(MUM @ Oct 28 2021, 05:25 PM) that is old story, most already knew. ..do you have any idea of the % controlled? At least 60% of the market is by controlled by them A very simple example if EPF owns 7% direct interest in a company expect 35% is controlled by GLC
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SUSyklooi
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Oct 28 2021, 05:37 PM
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QUOTE(xander83 @ Oct 28 2021, 05:35 PM) At least 60% of the market is by controlled by them A very simple example if EPF owns 7% direct interest in a company expect 35% is controlled by GLCexclude the ASNB, Kwap and TH? or includes all of it?
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SUSxander83
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Oct 28 2021, 05:41 PM
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QUOTE(yklooi @ Oct 28 2021, 05:37 PM) exclude the ASNB, Kwap and TH? or includes all of it? Are they GLCs? Of course includes of all of them As long as 1/3 is controlled by GLC and with the founder or owner holding 10% at least it is already controlled by GLCs and no way retail or private institutions can try to takeover
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SUSyklooi
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Oct 28 2021, 05:43 PM
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QUOTE(xander83 @ Oct 28 2021, 05:41 PM) Are they GLCs? Of course includes of all of them As long as 1/3 is controlled by GLC and with the founder or owner holding 10% at least it is already controlled by GLCs and no way retail or private institutions can try to takeover it is not about the control of companies,.. .i think what MUM referred is the control of BURSA in terms of market capitalisation.... how much $$ actually inside BURSA are theirs (them). This post has been edited by yklooi: Oct 28 2021, 05:46 PM
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SUSxander83
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Oct 28 2021, 05:49 PM
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QUOTE(yklooi @ Oct 28 2021, 05:43 PM) it is not about the control of companies,.. .i think what MUM referred is the control of BURSA in terms of market capitalisation.... A very simple example take Bursa Top 30 and you will know how many % The control of companies is just a simple example only for illustration
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SUSyklooi
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Oct 28 2021, 05:52 PM
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QUOTE(MUM @ Oct 28 2021, 05:25 PM) that is old story, most already knew. ..do you have any idea of the % controlled? with your below post so you also don't know the answer as posted by MUM QUOTE(xander83 @ Oct 28 2021, 05:49 PM) A very simple example take Bursa Top 30 and you will know how many % The control of companies is just a simple example only for illustration This post has been edited by yklooi: Oct 28 2021, 05:52 PM
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