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> EPF DIVIDEND, EPF

prophetjul
post Today, 11:17 AM

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QUOTE(Krv23490 @ Feb 21 2019, 11:12 AM)
I don't think we are all shareholder's in EPF though in this case. This is very different from a normal fund.
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Is this not an EPF thread? smile.gif

Would have thought those who venture in, are EPF shareholders.
sky18
post Today, 11:22 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Feb 21 2019, 11:08 AM)
This is social thinking.

i am thinking as a shareholder. EPF, as a fund manager has retained my money in their books.
When i decide to withdraw everything, this retained profits, which legally belongs to me too, is not credited to me.

And you think this is FAIR?
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I would said first of all, the concern is not appropriate in given context.. why get into a blind alley. smile.gif.

Isn't it same concern if you sold UT or company share with reserve fund. U can't ask the portion that belong to u too.

Treat this as part of the investment fee and make our life a lots happier. Overall, the fee pay to EPF is ridiculously low compared to others.

Btw, in general, life is not FAIR after all.


Krv23490
post Today, 11:23 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Feb 21 2019, 11:17 AM)
Is this not an EPF thread?  smile.gif

Would have thought those who venture in, are EPF shareholders.
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Hahaha, no no, I mean. We are EPF members. We are definitely not shareholders of EPF.

Private and Non-Pensionable Public Sector employees. The EPF, as at September 2018 , has a total of 14.09 million members. The total number of active and contributing members is 7.19 million.

we don't own shares of EPF.
prophetjul
post Today, 11:25 AM

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QUOTE(sky18 @ Feb 21 2019, 11:22 AM)
I would said first of all, the concern is not appropriate in given context.. why get into a blind alley. smile.gif.

Isn't it same concern if you sold UT or company share with reserve fund. U can't ask the portion that belong to u too.

Treat this as part of the investment fee and make our life a lots happier. Overall, the fee pay to EPF is ridiculously low compared to others.

Btw, in general, life is not FAIR after all.
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Nope

AFAIK UTs have NAV. Meaning when you sell, the UT price is tied to their NAV. This INCLUDES the CASH reserves.
prophetjul
post Today, 11:26 AM

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QUOTE(Krv23490 @ Feb 21 2019, 11:23 AM)
Hahaha, no no, I mean. We are EPF members. We are definitely not shareholders of EPF.

Private and Non-Pensionable Public Sector employees. The EPF, as at September 2018 , has a total of 14.09 million members. The total number of active and contributing members is 7.19 million.

we don't own shares of EPF.
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OK

STAKEHOLDERS then.
Krv23490
post Today, 11:30 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Feb 21 2019, 11:26 AM)
OK

STAKEHOLDERS then.
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we are not stakeholders too bro. We are just members. If you are a stakeholder , you literally own a part of EPF. We just contribute to the EPF so that they will manage our retirement funds. They manage our savings for us as per the law.

The EPF is a social security institution formed according to the Laws of Malaysia, Employees Provident Fund Act 1991 (Act 452) which provides retirement benefits for members through management of their savings in an efficient and reliable manner. The EPF also provides a convenient framework for employers to meet their statutory and moral obligations to their employees.
prophetjul
post Today, 11:33 AM

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QUOTE(Krv23490 @ Feb 21 2019, 11:30 AM)
we are not stakeholders too bro. We are just members. If you are a stakeholder , you literally own a part of EPF. We just contribute to the EPF so that they will manage our retirement funds. They manage our savings for us as per the law.

The EPF is a social security institution formed according to the Laws of Malaysia, Employees Provident Fund Act 1991 (Act 452) which provides retirement benefits for members through management of their savings in an efficient and reliable manner. The EPF also provides a convenient framework for employers to meet their statutory and moral obligations to their employees.
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Stakeholder

QUOTE
stakeholder
[ˈsteɪkhəldə]

NOUN
(in gambling) an independent party with whom each of those who make a wager deposits the money or counters wagered.
a person with an interest or concern in something, especially a business.
denoting a type of organization or system in which all the members or participants are seen as having an interest in its success.
Seems we are stakeholders


What does the law say about retaining profits into the reserve fund?


Krv23490
post Today, 11:50 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Feb 21 2019, 11:33 AM)
Stakeholder
Seems we are stakeholders
What does the law say about retaining profits into the reserve fund?
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Okay you can word it however you want as i know if i am a stakeholder in other companies, i get notices regarding AGMs or corporate actions. And i am not binded by law to contribute my salary to it to be a stakeholder.

After a 2 minute look on epfs website.

EPF Act
Section 15

General reserve and other reserve accounts

15.
(1) The Board may establish and manage a general reserve and other reserve accounts.

(2) The payment into and out of the reserve accounts shall be determined by the Board.


[Ancient]-XinG-
post Today, 11:50 AM

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Lucky ASNB state it very clearly in every press release and how many % they go into reserved.

Or else. We also don't know where the money go.

Most of the year market cam actually do double digit. But many of the years only 1 digit return are being told.


Krv23490
post Today, 12:02 PM

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Looking through their previous annual reports. I dont see any problem with EPF holding reserves and as previous members mentioned before me , most of the net income is being distributed as dividends as well.

Don't forget, EPF holds lots of equities as well. A deep financial crisis will make you happy they kept some reserves.
ChessRook
post Today, 12:51 PM

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I also don't have a problem with EPF holding as a reserve.

The reserves include things like unrealised foreign currency and hedging movements. These are artifacts from the accounting measurements (need to comply with the accrual basis).

This post has been edited by ChessRook: Today, 01:31 PM
ChessRook
post Today, 12:58 PM

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The EPF financial statements are here

http://www.kwsp.gov.my/portal/en/about-epf/annual-report

woonsc
post Today, 01:15 PM

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QUOTE(ChessRook @ Feb 21 2019, 12:58 PM)
Not updated yet. dry.gif
prophetjul
post Today, 01:21 PM

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QUOTE(Krv23490 @ Feb 21 2019, 11:50 AM)
Okay you can word it however you want as i know if i am a stakeholder in other companies, i get notices regarding AGMs or corporate actions. And i am not binded by law to contribute my salary to it to be a stakeholder.

After a 2 minute look on epfs website.

EPF Act
Section 15

General reserve and other reserve accounts

15.
(1) The Board may establish and manage a general reserve and other reserve accounts.

(2) The payment into and out of the reserve accounts shall be determined by the Board.
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Just wondering what's the guidance for reserves?

Surely they must have a guidance to maintain such an amount?
prophetjul
post Today, 01:24 PM

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QUOTE(Krv23490 @ Feb 21 2019, 12:02 PM)
Looking through their previous annual reports. I dont see any problem with EPF holding reserves and as previous members mentioned before me , most of the net income is being distributed as dividends as well.

Don't forget, EPF holds lots of equities as well. A deep financial crisis will make you happy they kept some reserves.
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That's what been thrown about.

No one has actually given the facts and figures whether this is TRUE
ChessRook
post Today, 01:30 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Feb 21 2019, 01:21 PM)
Just wondering what's the guidance for reserves?

Surely they must have a guidance to maintain such an amount?
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Have a looked at note 25 of the 2017 financial statement.
The reserves are not what layman think as reserves. The reserves are accounting attribution and revaluation due to unrealised gains/losses from the assets they hold. These reserves are there so that the users are able to see the gains / losses for the current year (even when the assets are not sold yet).


My previous posting about the reserves are wrong and i will amend that.

user posted image

This post has been edited by ChessRook: Today, 01:31 PM
ChessRook
post Today, 01:37 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Feb 21 2019, 01:24 PM)
That's what been thrown about.

No one has actually given the facts and figures whether this is TRUE
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The 2017 or previous years financial statements are there. Can go look at the income statements and check the amount of income earned vs distribution.

Just a thing is to look at realised profit/loss vs unrealised profit/loss.

This post has been edited by ChessRook: Today, 01:43 PM
ChessRook
post Today, 01:39 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Feb 21 2019, 01:24 PM)
That's what been thrown about.

No one has actually given the facts and figures whether this is TRUE
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I give a benefit of the doubt to KWSP. If there were some hanky panky in the previous years before 2018, the current government would have made lots of noise. The logic also applies now. If there were hanky panky now, I am very sure the opposition would love to use this against the current government.
prophetjul
post Today, 01:51 PM

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QUOTE(ChessRook @ Feb 21 2019, 01:30 PM)
Have a looked at note 25 of the 2017 financial statement.
The reserves are not what layman think as reserves. The reserves are accounting attribution and revaluation due to unrealised gains/losses from the assets they hold. These reserves are there so that the users are able to see the gains / losses for the current year (even when the assets are not sold yet).
My previous posting about the reserves are wrong and i will amend that.

user posted image
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Thanks!

This is helpful. Looks like the reserves are not be cashed out yet. Hedging contracts, etc?
ChessRook
post Today, 07:11 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Feb 21 2019, 01:51 PM)
Thanks!

This is helpful.  Looks like the reserves are not be cashed out yet. Hedging contracts, etc?
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Yes. Asset revaluatuion reserve, unrealised revaluation of hedging contracts and foreign currency movements etc.

This post has been edited by ChessRook: Today, 07:12 PM

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