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> Planning/vote kroni party, general election

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TSrampoknegara
post Jan 31 2013, 08:49 PM, updated 12y ago

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we often says..vote will change the direction of your country. that would mean by changing/shape the education policy for our children, better healthcare system, public transportation, better economic growth, etc.. and overall it should mean better living standard for the people and everyone.

however, before typical folks like you vote for this party or that party.. lets describe a bit what is it suppose to mean for you a better living standard provided by the people you had vote, as it translated from which gov you voted and you given them power to rule your environment, income growth, power spending, etc..

suppose in our current standard, a better living standard generally can categorized into 2 type. which is for male and female.. suppose from male point of view, good living standard is owning decent banglo house, with swimming pool, with nice little backyard garden, an alphard family mpv, a weekend sports car, a beautiful wife and 2 kids. while your jobs works only 24 - 32 hours per week, with ability to travel oversea twice a year for family vacation, send ur kids to good education which cost around RM500k upon finished studying, then yourself only works until 40 - 50 years old and able to retire without reducing any standard from ur previous lifestyle

while for the female, good living standard could be nearly the same, live in a decent banglo house, with swimming pool, and nice little backyard garden, your own personal cute car in garage, drive to shopping during weekend, buy new clothes at least once a month, visit hairstylist, manicure, spa every fortnight, oversea vacation with family twice a year, a handsome husband with 2 lovely kids, work only 24 - 32 hours per week, then yourself only works until 40 - 50 years old and able to retire without reducing any standard from ur previous lifestyle

after done some research, suppose ppl in malaysia from age from 20 - 40 probably has around 14 million total, which consist of 7 million male and 7 million female. so lets calculate the target needed for this political party to provide to all those 7 million family. a banglo described should take around 1600 square feet max, total land mass needed is 84,983 hectare.. unfortunately.. the total land in malaysia has only 329,847 square kilometres (refer here). which is 32,900 hectare.. so we still have 52,083 unmet demand from due to lack of land (84,983 - 32,900 = missing 52,083 hectare)

we are not even calculate how much consumption/resource it would take to provide those alphard, weekend sports car, house/building material, to 7million family etc etc.. you have to realize all this is impossible to provide for everyone. this is math! do some calculation yourself, you'll know it is impossible to provide such living standard to 7 million family, somebody must suffer and prepare to be sacrificed.

if you have done all those calculation, finally, you will realize doesnt matter what political party A or B says.. whatever they promise is not possible to materialized because they forgot to calculate how much resource it would take, they have no idea how big is malaysia and can build how many house to family only, it is limited. thus, the purpose of this thread i created is i want tell everyone it is time to wake up.. so it is logical why we should start a kroni party, which supporter/people are same category as kroni only in today's standard. the reason why need of the kroni name for the party is because for those who is not sure, suppose political party A promise abcxyz good for their supporter, the very first thing whats gonna happen is the people inside political party A, which is kroni will get the goodies for themselves first, upon got the mandate and support from majority... which is usually thru after vote.

when majority has given mandate/power to kroni, what usually happen is kroni will automatically create & secure their own position as much as possible for themselves first. why? cant kroni be honest? kroni cant fullfill what they promise to supporter? no cannot.. you have to understand this is not merely will power or wishful thinking, what kroni wont tell you is resource and land is actually limited, this basically translate into wealth ownership or whatever wawasan 2020 development project is actually limited to their own kroni members and family close tie.. this is science and math, it wont lie. refer example calculation above

so thats why the logic of this thread, and this is serious discussion, not for attacking political party A or B, pls dont bring the attack and ad-hominem here. this thread is for discussing possible idea of planning a kroni party. pls give your further idea and comments. thank you

This post has been edited by rampoknegara: Jan 31 2013, 08:51 PM
TSrampoknegara
post Feb 5 2013, 06:42 PM

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you want change, vote kroni party.



Questions : i dont expect to stay in bungalow with swimming pool when voting >.> . you want good life obviously have to earn it?

answer :

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
zyxxyz
post Feb 5 2013, 08:45 PM

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You want us to discuss how we're all going to form one party called the "Kroni Party" whose beliefs are solely based on cronyism? bruce.gif
TSrampoknegara
post Feb 6 2013, 07:16 PM

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QUOTE(zyxxyz @ Feb 5 2013, 08:45 PM)
You want us to discuss how we're all going to form one party called the "Kroni Party" whose beliefs are solely based on cronyism?  bruce.gif
*
this is not a belief.. only people who understand will join this party

first of all.. we all live in this single planet for a very long time.. last time ive checked.. human population continue to grow while the earth still remain the same, the resource is unchanged, amount of land, metal, etc.. still remain the same

so in our society and culture, the political party often promise a better future for everyone.. such as higher education, ur kids will be more successful, etc.. but if you think about it, that usually mean justifying thru social belief which is via competition and for those who win, will get most of everything, loser will get nothing. so whats wrong in this paradigm is we attempt to justify things via making someone a winner or loser, while the political party suppose enabling everyone having a better future, werent it is contradictory?

ppl often say, we're different, and we have intelligence ppl and some are stupid people, therefore there is need of competition. i disagree with such belief as it is merely a cop-out and attempt to look away from the root cause of the problem. when you look at what constitute human species.. basically everyone going thru the same biological stages in their life, except their experience is different. what makes a person become a doctor is they're being nurtured in certain specific environment from their childhood thru adult... while also same applies for what makes a person become terrorist also being nurtured in specific environment conditioning

so the society paradigm attempt to reinforce this cop-out is by championing & justifying thru competition and majority believed it is a fair and square deal. such as a low class people deserve lower living standard, while doctor or professional deserve a higher living standard. therefore until today, we have constructed & place the system in our environment, our school, etc.. therefore ignorance is everywhere. such as upper class people continue to abuse power, political lobbying, for self-preserving purpose.. while majority and middle/lower class being controlled by minority

thus, these day typical political party want to remain in this game because it is the chess game for the upper class. i believe i had made enough point from the 1st post, there is no such thing as enough for everyone, period. therefore to play along.. kroni party is needed.. at least we dont need to lie or twist around, didnt your parent say lie is not a right thing to do? laugh.gif forming this party and its goal is simple enough.. which is get in power thru parliament, change the economic and give every supporter the needed things..which is get the lifestyle same as kroni level

this political doesnt care if you are professional or beggar background, everyone will be allocated the same resource to thrive.. as i mentioned above, currently using competition there is no such thing as win-win situation for all the participants. assume we treat everyone the same, while theres no limit in free market how much you can get, lets say.. everyone manage to become smart as bill gate, with same level of understanding, experience, education,etc etc.. but when you take into the competition and turned it into a game.. eventually winner and loser is inevitable. thats why in developed country, we have master degree people flipping burger in mcdonald, professor working as janitor, etc..etc.. ironically we still call it as 'developed' country lol

however, this isnt an attempt to troll or trying to be ignorant.. it is understandable in the society & economy, for example not everyone can become dentist, but assuming its not the knowledge, intelligence problem/limitation. someone have to produce product for dentist industry, make the equipment, build the clinic, make chair, janitor, cleaning, etc and other services to support the institution

therefore dirty jobs is unavoidable yet, but it doesnt mean you have to do it in a depressed way or unhappily. suppose a lower class worker in company work for ceo, but yet.. these lower class worker had exactly the living standard same as kroni or their ceo of the company after from their work.. why would they be unhappy? in fact it could be a lot less sadness or worrying about need to make a living, or making their end needs, coupled with lower responsibility.. this will make people not interested what to achieve higher position job not because of profit or money motivated, but solely based on interest, which eventually higher position people have less tendency to involved in corruption and power abuse.

kroni party is definitely needed!
zyxxyz
post Feb 6 2013, 11:16 PM

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QUOTE(rampoknegara @ Feb 6 2013, 07:16 PM)
this is not a belief.. only people who understand will join this party

first of all.. we all live in this single planet for a very long time.. last time ive checked.. human population continue to grow while the earth still remain the same, the resource is unchanged, amount of land, metal, etc.. still remain the same

so in our society and culture, the political party often promise a better future for everyone.. such as higher education, ur kids will be more successful, etc.. but if you think about it, that usually mean justifying thru social belief which is via competition and for those who win, will get most of everything, loser will get nothing. so whats wrong in this paradigm is we attempt to justify things via making someone a winner or loser, while the political party suppose enabling everyone having a better future, werent it is contradictory?

ppl often say, we're different, and we have intelligence ppl and some are stupid people, therefore there is need of competition. i disagree with such belief as it is merely a cop-out and attempt to look away from the root cause of the problem. when you look at what constitute human species.. basically everyone going thru the same biological stages in their life, except their experience is different. what makes a person become a doctor is they're being nurtured in certain specific environment from their childhood thru adult... while also same applies for what makes a person become terrorist also being nurtured in specific environment conditioning

so the society paradigm attempt to reinforce this cop-out is by championing & justifying thru competition and majority believed it is a fair and square deal. such as a low class people deserve lower living standard, while doctor or professional deserve a higher living standard. therefore until today, we have constructed & place the system in our environment, our school, etc.. therefore ignorance is everywhere. such as upper class people continue to abuse power, political lobbying, for self-preserving purpose.. while majority and middle/lower class being controlled by minority

thus, these day typical political party want to remain in this game because it is the chess game for the upper class. i believe i had made enough point from the 1st post, there is no such thing as enough for everyone, period. therefore to play along.. kroni party is needed.. at least we dont need to lie or twist around, didnt your parent say lie is not a right thing to do?  laugh.gif  forming this party and its goal is simple enough.. which is get in power thru parliament, change the economic and give every supporter the needed things..which is get the lifestyle same as kroni level

this political doesnt care if you are professional or beggar background, everyone will be allocated the same resource to thrive.. as i mentioned above, currently using competition there is no such thing as win-win situation for all the participants. assume we treat everyone the same, while theres no limit in free market how much you can get, lets say.. everyone manage to become smart as bill gate, with same level of understanding, experience, education,etc etc.. but when you take into the competition and turned it into a game.. eventually winner and loser is inevitable. thats why in developed country, we have master degree people flipping burger in mcdonald, professor working as janitor, etc..etc.. ironically we still call it as 'developed' country lol

however, this isnt an attempt to troll or trying to be ignorant.. it is understandable in the society & economy, for example not everyone can become dentist, but assuming its not the knowledge, intelligence problem/limitation. someone have to produce product for dentist industry, make the equipment, build the clinic, make chair, janitor, cleaning, etc and other services to support the institution

therefore dirty jobs is unavoidable yet, but it doesnt mean you have to do it in a depressed way or unhappily. suppose a lower class worker in company work for ceo, but yet.. these lower class worker had exactly the living standard same as kroni or their ceo of the company after from their work.. why would they be unhappy? in fact it could be a lot less sadness or worrying about need to make a living, or making their end needs, coupled with lower responsibility.. this will make people not interested what to achieve higher position job not because of profit or money motivated, but solely based on interest, which eventually higher position people have less tendency to involved in corruption and power abuse.

kroni party is definitely needed!
*
Lol I don't really get your solution but anyway...

Amount of resources do change. Heard of man-made islands? Man-made resources?

When political parties, with a few exception says that the country and its people will "flourish", I think its a generic statement. Really, if you sit at home and be a couch potato everyday, why would you be successful?

Government's job is to provide opportunity to you.

You grab it and succeed? You become BN's crony to the PR supporters. But guess what? By then you're too rich to give a f-uck what PR says about you.

You sit at home and expects opportunity to come to you and wait for you? You can continue to dream on then. You will never succeed in life via that manner.

If there's no competition, there would be no innovation. Would Samsung and Apple be this far? Will we have 3D movies, cinemas, smartphones, smart cars etc?

Is it just me or are you suggesting that we become a communist country like Cuba and North Korea? hmm.gif

This post has been edited by zyxxyz: Feb 6 2013, 11:17 PM
TSrampoknegara
post Feb 7 2013, 09:17 AM

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QUOTE(zyxxyz @ Feb 6 2013, 11:16 PM)
If there's no competition, there would be no innovation. Would Samsung and Apple be this far? Will we have 3D movies, cinemas, smartphones, smart cars etc?

Is it just me or are you suggesting that we become a communist country like Cuba and North Korea?  hmm.gif
*
competition? hmm... suppose you had this limited land, and there are 2 timber company in competition, so both company milking the government to give out all the land for them to cut down all the trees, as rule of competition.. the winner makes most money. but if you look from overall picture who really benefit from such mechanism? last time ive checked.. we are not planning to migrate to another earth yet

competition is waste of resource and redundant, usa and russia refuse to work together for their space mission due to their ego, each of them spent enormous amount of resource and time re-invent the same thing due to ego and stupidity, who really benefit from it? if both of them working together instead against each other, they would have reach far more in technological advancement, and probably by today human already living in outerspace

our leader are so ignorant and ego driven, then decided to start a proton company and make our own engine, why need to reinvent the things that people has done it hundreds of years ago? just imagine if toyota/etc working together with proton, by today maybe we will be sitting in a car that can fly, with toyota + proton hybrid brand lol.. look from overall picture, who really benefit? when you have competition, there is only one thing corporation will do, which is self-preserving.

i prefer efficient economy and it has more innovation

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «



but this thread is not talking about competition... it is about kroni party. pls dont get out of topic
TSrampoknegara
post Feb 7 2013, 01:14 PM

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QUOTE(zyxxyz @ Feb 6 2013, 11:16 PM)
When political parties, with a few exception says that the country and its people will "flourish", I think its a generic statement. Really, if you sit at home and be a couch potato everyday, why would you be successful?

Government's job is to provide opportunity to you.

You grab it and succeed? You become BN's crony to the PR supporters. But guess what? By then you're too rich to give a f-uck what PR says about you.

You sit at home and expects opportunity to come to you and wait for you? You can continue to dream on then. You will never succeed in life via that manner.
*
let me try to interpret what you mean here,

you are saying suppose gov giving out loan or whatever for ppl to get into business, or education, training in order for them to upgrade and earn higher salary/make more money

.. now let me ask you, if everyone become entrepreneur, or professor,scientist, who is going to work as lower class ppl to support the business of entrepreneur? who is gonna work as technician to maintain electricity grid/water for business? who is gonna work as cleaner to keep the place clean and in order? who is going to serve when entrepreneur or scientist going to eat at restaurant?

get what i mean? as i mention in the above, dirty jobs is unavoidable yet. refer explanation at post no.4 again


then since youre saying gov provide opportunity for ppl make more money, then money will use to buy things same as kroni lifestlye.. so why not directly just form a kroni party, allocate the resource directly instead need to going thru a circle, then you still ended up at the same destination.

joeblows
post Feb 7 2013, 01:19 PM

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QUOTE(zyxxyz @ Feb 5 2013, 08:45 PM)
You want us to discuss how we're all going to form one party called the "Kroni Party" whose beliefs are solely based on cronyism?  bruce.gif
*
This party already exists.

It's called UMNO. icon_idea.gif
TSrampoknegara
post Feb 7 2013, 02:06 PM

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QUOTE(joeblows @ Feb 7 2013, 01:19 PM)
This party already exists.

It's called UMNO.  icon_idea.gif
*
thanks for not reading the first post
zyxxyz
post Feb 7 2013, 08:23 PM

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QUOTE(rampoknegara @ Feb 7 2013, 09:17 AM)
competition? hmm... suppose you had this limited land, and there are 2 timber company in competition, so both company milking the government to give out all the land for them to cut down all the trees, as rule of competition.. the winner makes most money. but if you look from overall picture who really benefit from such mechanism? last time ive checked.. we are not planning to migrate to another earth yet

competition is waste of resource and redundant, usa and russia refuse to work together for their space mission due to their ego, each of them spent enormous amount of resource and time re-invent the same thing due to ego and stupidity, who really benefit from it? if both of them working together instead against each other, they would have reach far more in technological advancement, and probably by today human already living in outerspace

our leader are so ignorant and ego driven, then decided to start a proton company and make our own engine, why need to reinvent the things that people has done it hundreds of years ago? just imagine if toyota/etc working together with proton, by today maybe we will be sitting in a car that can fly, with toyota + proton hybrid brand lol.. look from overall picture, who really benefit? when you have competition, there is only one thing corporation will do, which is self-preserving.

i prefer efficient economy and it has more innovation


Competition means, based on the situation you've given, the land be sold to whichever company that offers the Government the higher price. Says who the Government must sell its entire nation to the timberland? Its called planning. Unlike the excessive logging in Kelantan where the natives' home are breached. Maybe they're giving out lands like the 4,000 ha to the DAP duo because they know they'll be losing Kelantan very soon.

Competition may waste resource or whatsoever, and again if it is not competition, can you be sure that we would be able to enjoy all the technologies that we have today?

If there's no competition, if everybody gets the same thing, then, will they put in the extra effort to be the best? Will Steve Jobs try to be innovative with Apple's products?

Uh. I think by your own definition, your "efficient economy" if implemented would literally kill the economy.
TSrampoknegara
post Feb 7 2013, 08:55 PM

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QUOTE(zyxxyz @ Feb 7 2013, 08:23 PM)
can you be sure that we would be able to enjoy all the technologies that we have today?
*
if this is your concern, suppose we live in different economy and mcdonald did not patent & keep their recipe secret due to profit motivated... how many more restaurant similar like mcdonald will appear?

if apple use open source on their product, let everyone know their technology.. how many other company would copy it, alter their own version and give more choice to consumer?
zyxxyz
post Feb 7 2013, 09:24 PM

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QUOTE(rampoknegara @ Feb 7 2013, 08:55 PM)
if this is your concern, suppose we live in different economy and mcdonald did not patent & keep their recipe secret due to profit motivated... how many more restaurant similar like mcdonald will appear?

if apple use open source on their product, let everyone know their technology.. how many other company would copy it, alter their own version and give more choice to consumer?
*
Are you even listening or in this case, reading what on earth you're writing?

April's Fool is not even here yet.

What you've mentioned is called "competition". I guess you've already answered your own question.

If there was no competition in the first place, there would only be one fast food restaurant, because guess what? Nobody would want to compete against each other to be the best.
megaman03
post Feb 7 2013, 09:30 PM

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QUOTE(zyxxyz @ Feb 7 2013, 09:24 PM)
Are you even listening or in this case, reading what on earth you're writing?

April's Fool is not even here yet.

What you've mentioned is called "competition". I guess you've already answered your own question.

If there was no competition in the first place, there would only be one fast food restaurant, because guess what? Nobody would want to compete against each other to be the best.
*
And yet you jokers are here.

I could make a centre-left social democratic party, though I don't expect more than 5-6% of the vote tongue.gif
TSrampoknegara
post Feb 7 2013, 10:21 PM

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QUOTE(zyxxyz @ Feb 7 2013, 09:24 PM)
Are you even listening or in this case, reading what on earth you're writing?

April's Fool is not even here yet.

What you've mentioned is called "competition". I guess you've already answered your own question.

If there was no competition in the first place, there would only be one fast food restaurant, because guess what? Nobody would want to compete against each other to be the best.
*
For eg:

Its kinda funny when 2 person want to make the best noodle...

In the beginning the intention suppose to be good... but when there is profit or money motivated behind the scenes.. it will starts turning into disaster

Suppose ppl genuinely want to eat the best noodle, how do u define it? Most of the ppl dont realize , ppl always judge based on their previous experience & the knowledge they had

Theres is even more ppl not aware the knowledge could be manipulated & subtly controlled..these thing is well known in marketing

At the end those with most money can create the environment & lying thru their teeth, this product A is the best.. majority will believe it, bcoz company spent a lot in propaganda lol

This is what competition has turned into these day.. who can tell the best lie.. no longer about the intention, good quality, etc..
EarendurFefalas
post Feb 8 2013, 09:29 PM

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rclxub.gif

if all people will get the same bungalow. where the resource will come from?
TSrampoknegara
post Feb 8 2013, 09:34 PM

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QUOTE(EarendurFefalas @ Feb 8 2013, 09:29 PM)
rclxub.gif

if all people will get the same bungalow. where the resource will come from?
*
hemp
EarendurFefalas
post Feb 8 2013, 09:41 PM

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QUOTE(rampoknegara @ Feb 8 2013, 09:34 PM)
hemp
*
huh? am i missing something?
TSrampoknegara
post Feb 9 2013, 10:57 PM

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QUOTE(EarendurFefalas @ Feb 8 2013, 09:41 PM)
huh? am i missing something?
*
http://deepgreenfest.files.wordpress.com/2.../hemp-chart.jpg
megaman03
post Feb 9 2013, 11:21 PM

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Why vote for politics as usual. You, the voter, have a choice! Vote for equality, freedom and unity. Vote Social Democrat. tongue.gif

This post has been edited by megaman03: Feb 9 2013, 11:23 PM
nx7010
post Feb 10 2013, 12:29 AM

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I think what rampoknegara meant is that, it's not exactly competition is bad but, the motive of the competition is diluted to : right now all companies are competing on profit. Samsung is shouting they are no.1 phone vendor. Apple is shouting their profits for 2012. All companies beginning of the year will not say for 2013, let's see how we can developed technologies to ease the burden of mankind as whole. No companies is competing to see who can give more FOC stuffs to the people. All companies will raise quota, raise targets, therefore in essence they are competing to see who is more successful in bringing in the moolah.

Innovation will always be there based on interests. Henry Ford didn't require competition to make the car. Wright Brothers did not require competition. Thomas Edison did not require competition. Graham Bell did not require competition. Yet their innovation are history maker in mankind's story.

From my point of view I can't agree on cronyism because it breeds corruption. What I do know is that we as a whole needs re-education. As like what was mentioned here, our world resources are limited. There will not be more of anything as everything we use, sell, buy, etc is from this earth. We need to question ourselves, why is it that someone, some organization, some governments are suggesting that they can take the resources which was provided to all of us and sell it to you? Who determines that, the tree which grows freely in the forest a person can go cut it down and sell it to another person? Re-education in the sense that all that is in this earth is a limited entity, and we should be thought sustainable living. I think a family of four in a 1000sft home is within acceptable comfort means. And then it comes to ownership, like why do 1000 people need to own 1000 cars. Will everyone drive at the same time? Why can't we share and therefore save resources?

Some people will come in and say this is not democratic or this is some communism or whatever political term may be. The bottom line still boils down to gangsterism/power hungry. The ability or opportunity to squeeze the majority(rakyat). All over the world today, governments have been the effect power grab, wars, conquering nations, like how US stands today as a major superpower is due to the fact that they have the military might. Like how BN wants to hold on to power and how PR is so eager to take over that power. Isn't it the same then as gangster clan. How they come to you and ask for protection money. The same where governments everywhere will have many ways to tax the avg joe out there. Yet so many people believe that they need to have some type of government.

Also when it comes to accusation that people is just hoping for free lunch from doing nothing. Let me say this then, are we as a species so stupid that we throw away so much food because of waste yet there are people dying of hunger? Obviously they are born in a less developed place or is poor or broke so they deserve to die? Also let's not ignore technology. Technologies that our forefathers do not have. So much that we do today can be replaced by technology. And if the technology can replace humans, to serve mankind better and more efficiently. From the way I see it, if we can manage to feed everyone with the least amount of MANPOWER doesn't it mean that we are working smart, working efficiently that we do not need 7 Billion people to work to feed 7 Billion people. And this is what I called human evolution and that the thinking of everyone needs to be at work to feed themselves are just plain bullshit in this day and age with our technology.

Less people at work, more people doing things that interests them is how we humans developed passion and excel in what we do because we are loving what we do. If people is forced to be at a 8-5 job when they don't have the passion, and they are there just to ensure they get a paycheck, I wonder how is this the right way.

My 2 cents ranting. wink.gif

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