Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

> DIY power filter v2, more effective and neat #16 update

views
     
TSNoobHacker
post Nov 3 2012, 09:40 AM

huehue
******
Senior Member
1,687 posts

Joined: Dec 2010
I'm planning to buy bada LB5500 but its too expensive (around RM600) and too much slots for me doh.gif and a lot of audiophile says, using plug extender will ruin music quality too, they prefer direct wall plug, so i decided to build my own power filter, then hook to wall plug, so i will get power filter + direct wall thumbup.gif
Why i need a power filter? in the morning i notices the music (10am) very noisy but extremely clean in midnight (12am), i can comfirm i hear the difference, so i will build a power filter for sure

I've researched on some power filter, including LB5500 inside, Felix Project and some forumer's(another forum) filter project, and i've merged their ideas thumbup.gif

user posted image
picture from Felix Project, i will do something similar to this, since people who uses high end equipment uses this circuit design


user posted image
so these are the components i'm going to use, WIMA 1000v capacitors,
2* 1UF
2* 0.1UF
2* 0.01UF
2* Choke for high frequency noise filtering

user posted image
solder them out as shown in PCB, this is my second time solder ( first time in PMR KH doh.gif so its very ugly)
i solder them larger for lower resistance and tighter, its AC current so i better solder more

user posted image
Put in chassis and hook to wall plug (HIFI US Wallplug brows.gif ), the grey wire hook to another plug currently, will hook to in-wall wire when possible


I've noticed the choke generates much noise (zzzzzz), after googling people says i need to put it in paint but i don't want to waste money anymore so i use jagung powder to make glue and throw it inside and let it dry, the noise greatly reduced thumbup.gif

user posted image
this is how the filter looks (inside, latest)


so will it affect to sound quality? yes it will, before that, i listen to music less then one minute then turn off the amp and dac because the sound was extremely noisy and not bear to listen at all,
after installing the filter, i can listen music in the morning, but its still isnt clean as midnight , i will do something to USB to SPDIF converter next time ... brows.gif

This post has been edited by NoobHacker: Nov 3 2012, 11:14 AM
k3lvinng007
post Nov 3 2012, 09:51 AM

Casual
***
Junior Member
311 posts

Joined: Mar 2009


niceeeeeeee
Leolabs
post Nov 3 2012, 10:44 AM

On my way
****
Senior Member
600 posts

Joined: Nov 2006
From: Bukit Mertajam,Penang State


Did u try any Y capacitor connections????
TSNoobHacker
post Nov 3 2012, 11:08 AM

huehue
******
Senior Member
1,687 posts

Joined: Dec 2010
QUOTE(k3lvinng007 @ Nov 3 2012, 09:51 AM)
niceeeeeeee
*
thanks for your support notworthy.gif

QUOTE(Leolabs @ Nov 3 2012, 10:44 AM)
Did u try any Y capacitor connections????
*
was thinking about that (it exists in bada lb 5500) but i didn't do that in the end
firstly it don't improve sound quality and complicate the circuit
secondly if there are any surge, my home should die a lot of electronics already, but that didn't happen until now, even the bulb never sudden flashs, i think my home installed a good breaker
btw my home around 15 years old already thumbup.gif

This post has been edited by NoobHacker: Nov 3 2012, 11:10 AM
blacktubi
post Nov 3 2012, 11:09 AM

-
Group Icon
Elite
6,073 posts

Joined: Jul 2008
Respect for amazing DIY notworthy.gif
gabanyayaya
post Nov 3 2012, 04:00 PM

Audiophedophile
******
Senior Member
1,142 posts

Joined: Aug 2007
it suppose to be conceal in a protected case
TSNoobHacker
post Nov 3 2012, 05:33 PM

huehue
******
Senior Member
1,687 posts

Joined: Dec 2010
QUOTE(blacktubi @ Nov 3 2012, 11:09 AM)
Respect for amazing DIY notworthy.gif
*
thank you very much notworthy.gif

QUOTE(gabanyayaya @ Nov 3 2012, 04:00 PM)
it suppose to be conceal in a protected case
*
planning to get arcylic casing + pcb for the components brows.gif
lex
post Nov 3 2012, 06:33 PM

Old Am I?
Group Icon
VIP
18,182 posts

Joined: Jan 2005
From: Dagobah
QUOTE(NoobHacker @ Nov 3 2012, 09:40 AM)
I'm planning to buy bada LB5500 but its too expensive (around RM600) and too much slots for me  doh.gif and a lot of audiophile says, using plug extender will ruin music quality too, they prefer direct wall plug, so i decided to build my own power filter, then hook to wall plug, so i will get power filter + direct wall  thumbup.gif
Why i need a power filter? in the morning i notices the music (10am) very noisy but extremely clean in midnight (12am), i can comfirm i hear the difference, so i will build a power filter for sure

I've researched on some power filter, including LB5500 inside, Felix Project and some forumer's(another forum) filter project, and i've merged their ideas  thumbup.gif

user posted image
picture from Felix Project, i will do something similar to this, since people who uses high end equipment uses this circuit design
There are no Y capacitors in this design. Usually standard line filters have Y capacitors. That includes those found in computer ATX PSUs. The circuit also lacks a bleeder resistor. Below is an example of a typical line filter circuit... wink.gif

user posted image

QUOTE(NoobHacker @ Nov 3 2012, 09:40 AM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
so these are the components i'm going to use, WIMA 1000v capacitors,
2* 1UF
2* 0.1UF
2* 0.01UF
2* Choke for high frequency noise filtering

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

solder them out as shown in PCB, this is my second time solder ( first time in PMR KH  doh.gif so its very ugly)
i solder them larger for lower resistance and tighter, its AC current so i better solder more
The original circuit uses a common node choke (common in EMI line filters). However yours is using 2 seaparate chokes. You can salvage common node chokes from failed PSUs (usually those branded true power PSUs have them). There should also be a fuse in case of capacitor failure. hmm.gif

QUOTE(NoobHacker @ Nov 3 2012, 09:40 AM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Put in chassis and hook to wall plug (HIFI US Wallplug  brows.gif ), the grey wire hook to another plug currently, will hook to in-wall wire when possible
I've noticed the choke generates much noise (zzzzzz), after googling people says i need to put it in paint but i don't want to waste money anymore so i use jagung powder to make glue and throw it inside and let it dry, the noise greatly reduced  thumbup.gif
Coil whine? Could have used rubber gum/glue/adhesive instead. Anyway, you can also buy ready-made EMI line filters which could have fit the box easier, such as the examples below... tongue.gif

user posted image
user posted image

QUOTE(NoobHacker @ Nov 3 2012, 09:40 AM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

this is how the filter looks (inside, latest)
so will it affect to sound quality? yes it will, before that, i listen to music less then one minute then turn off the amp and dac because the sound was extremely noisy and not bear to listen at all,
after installing the filter, i can listen music in the morning, but its still isnt clean as midnight , i will do something to USB to SPDIF converter next time ...
Then its either the DIY filter is ineffective and/or the majority of the noise source is not the mains power... icon_rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by lex: Nov 3 2012, 06:59 PM
TSNoobHacker
post Nov 3 2012, 07:24 PM

huehue
******
Senior Member
1,687 posts

Joined: Dec 2010
QUOTE(lex @ Nov 3 2012, 06:33 PM)
There are no Y capacitors in this design. Usually standard line filters have Y capacitors. That includes those found in computer ATX PSUs. The circuit also lacks a bleeder resistor. Below is an example of a typical line filter circuit...  wink.gif 

user posted image

The original circuit uses a common node choke (common in EMI line filters). However yours is using 2 seaparate chokes. You can salvage common node chokes from failed PSUs (usually those branded true power PSUs have them). There should also be a fuse in case of capacitor failure. hmm.gif

Coil whine? Could have used rubber gum/glue/adhesive instead. Anyway, you can also buy ready-made EMI line filters which could have fit the box easier, such as the examples below... tongue.gif

user posted image
user posted image

Then its either the DIY filter is ineffective and/or the majority of the noise source is not the mains power... icon_rolleyes.gif
*
thanks for you recommendations
1. regrading the Y capacitors, i saw that in BADA LB5500 but not in the circuit design, and i though its only for voltage surge protection. i didn't know that Y capacitors will do EMI filtering (noise to ground), i have some in junk surge protectors, will try to install them when i'm free
2. i though fuse is only for overpower protection so i didnt install them as my dac + amp only consumes <100W
3. i don't care about the choke anymore since it don't produce loud noise anymore laugh.gif
4. regrading the choke i though they were same, will research on them when i'm free
5. i though that kind of ready-made emi filters are uneffective compared to own DIY ones? hmm.gif
6. the noise source is main power for sure, the sound obviously become cleaner after using the filter

lex
post Nov 3 2012, 07:54 PM

Old Am I?
Group Icon
VIP
18,182 posts

Joined: Jan 2005
From: Dagobah
QUOTE(NoobHacker @ Nov 3 2012, 07:24 PM)
thanks for you recommendations
1. regrading the Y capacitors, i saw that in BADA LB5500 but not in the circuit design, and i though its only for voltage surge protection. i didn't know that Y capacitors will do EMI filtering (noise to ground), i have some in junk surge protectors, will try to install them when i'm free
For Y capacitors, preferably those Murata ones (usually light blue in color). wink.gif

QUOTE(NoobHacker @ Nov 3 2012, 07:24 PM)
2. i though fuse is only for overpower protection so i didnt install them as my dac + amp only consumes <100W
One common failure of capacitors is becoming shorted. The fuse to protect your mains power from that scenario. icon_idea.gif

QUOTE(NoobHacker @ Nov 3 2012, 07:24 PM)
3. i don't care about the choke anymore since it don't produce loud noise anymore  laugh.gif
4. regrading the choke i though they were same, will research on them when i'm free
A slight mistype, supposed to be "common mode choke". They are different from standard chokes. You can find them in ATX PSUs (especially those branded true power PSUs), LCD monitors, CRT monitors, LCD TVs, CRT TVs, etc (mostly places where switching power supplies are used). hmm.gif

QUOTE(NoobHacker @ Nov 3 2012, 07:24 PM)
5. i though that kind of ready-made emi filters are uneffective compared to own DIY ones? hmm.gif
6. the noise source is main power for sure, the sound obviously become cleaner after using the filter
More or less the same for both DIY and ready-made filters. Usually the more coils/chokes in series, the better (though have to beware of the overall resistance which could reduce the current). You can see some examples here: Murata - EMI Suppression Filters ("EMIFIL") for AC Power Lines. Some EMI filters employ resonant chokes to try to nullify sudden AC changes/disruptions. icon_rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by lex: Nov 3 2012, 08:04 PM
TSNoobHacker
post Nov 3 2012, 09:09 PM

huehue
******
Senior Member
1,687 posts

Joined: Dec 2010
QUOTE(lex @ Nov 3 2012, 07:54 PM)
For Y capacitors, preferably those Murata ones (usually light blue in color). wink.gif

One common failure of capacitors is becoming shorted. The fuse to protect your mains power from that scenario. icon_idea.gif

A slight mistype, supposed to be "common mode choke". They are different from standard chokes. You can find them in ATX PSUs (especially those branded true power PSUs), LCD monitors, CRT monitors, LCD TVs, CRT TVs, etc (mostly places where switching power supplies are used).  hmm.gif

More or less the same for both DIY and ready-made filters. Usually the more coils/chokes in series, the better (though have to beware of the overall resistance which could reduce the current). You can see some examples here: Murata - EMI Suppression Filters ("EMIFIL") for AC Power Lines. Some EMI filters employ resonant chokes to try to nullify sudden AC changes/disruptions. icon_rolleyes.gif
*
I don't know where to get those components you mentioned actually doh.gif I'll just use the Y capacitor inside the junk surge protector, its light blue colored too.
I can't find the common mode choke. thats why i uses normal choke, i thought they were the same. I only have junk cap ayam PSU. I thought it just the copper go through the magnet doh.gif . I think i don't need to worry about resistance since i don't have extremely huge speakers which consumes a lot of power.
anyway i know where to get ready-made filters you mentioned. Maybe there will be common mode choke inside?
Anyway i prefer DIY than using ready-made filters nod.gif

This post has been edited by NoobHacker: Nov 3 2012, 09:10 PM
lex
post Nov 3 2012, 09:52 PM

Old Am I?
Group Icon
VIP
18,182 posts

Joined: Jan 2005
From: Dagobah
QUOTE(NoobHacker @ Nov 3 2012, 09:09 PM)
I don't know where to get those components you mentioned actually  doh.gif  I'll just use the Y capacitor inside the junk surge protector, its light blue colored too.
That's very common for Y capacitors (ie. light blue or cyan colored) and are usually rated anywhere from 1kV to 3kV operating voltage. You can find them here: RS Components > Passive Components > Capacitors > Ceramic Single Layer Capacitors (if you noticed, Murata capacitors are usually light blue colored) icon_idea.gif

QUOTE(NoobHacker @ Nov 3 2012, 09:09 PM)
I can't find the common mode choke. thats why i uses normal choke, i thought they were the same. I only have junk cap ayam PSU. I thought it just the copper go through the magnet  doh.gif . I think i don't need to worry about resistance since i don't have extremely huge speakers which consumes a lot of power.
Its not a magnet, but a soft ferrite core. If you could find any of the faulty equipment mentioned, then you could salvage them (these chokes hardly/rarely spoil at all, just wire and ferrite core only). I have quite a number of them (usually from power supply boards of ATX PSUs, LCD monitors, AC-to-DC adapters, etc). If you are using cap ayam PSU on your PC then that could also contribute to the noise problem (ie. ripples and ringing from the rectification stage) on the USB port. hmm.gif

QUOTE(NoobHacker @ Nov 3 2012, 09:09 PM)
anyway i know where to get ready-made filters you mentioned. Maybe there will be common mode choke inside?
Anyway i prefer DIY than using ready-made filters  nod.gif
Some online stores sells them, such as RS Components > Passive Components > Passive Filters > Power Line Filters (for ready-made EMI filters) and RS Components > Home > Passive Components > Inductors > Leaded Inductors (for common mode chokes). icon_rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by lex: Nov 3 2012, 09:53 PM
TSNoobHacker
post Nov 25 2012, 09:36 PM

huehue
******
Senior Member
1,687 posts

Joined: Dec 2010
QUOTE(lex @ Nov 3 2012, 09:52 PM)
That's very common for Y capacitors (ie. light blue or cyan colored) and are usually rated anywhere from 1kV to 3kV operating voltage. You can find them here: RS Components > Passive Components > Capacitors > Ceramic Single Layer Capacitors (if you noticed, Murata capacitors are usually light blue colored) icon_idea.gif

Its not a magnet, but a soft ferrite core. If you could find any of the faulty equipment mentioned, then you could salvage them (these chokes hardly/rarely spoil at all, just wire and ferrite core only). I have quite a number of them (usually from power supply boards of ATX PSUs, LCD monitors, AC-to-DC adapters, etc). If you are using cap ayam PSU on your PC then that could also contribute to the noise problem (ie. ripples and ringing from the rectification stage) on the USB port. hmm.gif

Some online stores sells them, such as RS Components > Passive Components > Passive Filters > Power Line Filters (for ready-made EMI filters) and RS Components > Home > Passive Components > Inductors > Leaded Inductors (for common mode chokes).  icon_rolleyes.gif
*
user posted image
may i ask the black thing is ferrite core? brows.gif
its a disassembled-burnt R core transformer
lex
post Nov 28 2012, 06:54 PM

Old Am I?
Group Icon
VIP
18,182 posts

Joined: Jan 2005
From: Dagobah
QUOTE(NoobHacker @ Nov 25 2012, 09:36 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

may i ask the black thing is ferrite core?  brows.gif
its a disassembled-burnt R core transformer
It looks like a laminated ferrite core, rather than a soft ferrite core. Transformers commonly use laminated iron/ferrite plates to reduce the eddy current effects. EMI filter chokes usually use soft ferrite cores instead. tongue.gif

Bernie7
post Nov 28 2012, 07:47 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
59 posts

Joined: Dec 2009


QUOTE(NoobHacker @ Nov 3 2012, 09:09 PM)
I can't find the common mode choke. thats why i uses normal choke, i thought they were the same.
*
I've built a few of these Felix power filter designs over the years and use them all over the place.

The CMC (common mode choke) is a key part of the Felix design. 2 ordinary chokes cannot do the same thing, which is to cancel out common noises in the +ve and -ve rails.

Your 2 chokes may likely be doing more harm than good and strangling the supply. tongue.gif Suggest you order a CMC iirc around 2.5mH, check the thread.
TSNoobHacker
post Nov 28 2012, 08:37 PM

huehue
******
Senior Member
1,687 posts

Joined: Dec 2010
QUOTE(Bernie7 @ Nov 28 2012, 07:47 PM)
I've built a few of these Felix power filter designs over the years and use them all over the place.

The CMC (common mode choke) is a key part of the Felix design. 2 ordinary chokes cannot do the same thing, which is to cancel out common noises in the +ve and -ve rails.

Your 2 chokes may likely be doing more harm than good and strangling the supply.  tongue.gif  Suggest you order a CMC iirc around 2.5mH, check the thread.
*
thanks for your suggestion and experience. which thread you mentioned? I really can't find that kind of choke anywhere.

EDIT:found on rs site. thank you. anyway, I'm going to mod this filter into my DAC only. From what i heard from felix project thread, the less mH the better filtering. How much is enough for 20W DAC? (dual 10W)


Added on November 28, 2012, 9:09 pm
QUOTE(lex @ Nov 28 2012, 06:54 PM)
It looks like a laminated ferrite core, rather than a soft ferrite core. Transformers commonly use laminated iron/ferrite plates to reduce the eddy current effects. EMI filter chokes usually use soft ferrite cores instead. tongue.gif
*
oh, thanks for mention, i though it can become CMC by wounding the wires myself on it sweat.gif

This post has been edited by NoobHacker: Nov 28 2012, 09:09 PM
Bernie7
post Nov 28 2012, 09:09 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
59 posts

Joined: Dec 2009


QUOTE(NoobHacker @ Nov 28 2012, 08:37 PM)
thanks for your suggestion and experience. which thread you mentioned? I really can't find that kind of choke anywhere.

EDIT:found on rs site. thank you. anyway, I'm going to mod this filter into my DAC only. From what i heard from felix project thread, the less mH the better filtering. How much is enough for 20W DAC? (dual 10W)
*
the felix thread where you found the schematic may give some idea (audiocircle?).

not that less mH = better filtering, higher is actually better but too much mH = higher impedance = lower ac voltage going to your gear, esp if they are high power. For your 20w dac not an issue, you can try 2 to 5mH.

btw I also have the bada lb5500 filter - I have lotsa stuff to plug in smile.gif



This post has been edited by Bernie7: Nov 28 2012, 09:26 PM
TSNoobHacker
post Nov 28 2012, 09:25 PM

huehue
******
Senior Member
1,687 posts

Joined: Dec 2010
QUOTE(Bernie7 @ Nov 28 2012, 09:09 PM)
the felix thread where you found the schematic may give some idea (audiocircle?).

not that less mH = better filtering, higher is actually better but too much mH = higher impedance = lower ac voltage going to your gear, esp if they are high power. For your 20w dac not an issue, you can try 2 to 5mH.

btw I also have the bada lb550 filter - I have lotsa stuff to plug in  smile.gif
*
thanks for the correction.
btw, since you have so much experience in building felix, can you recommend me what kind of CMC is best for felix?
http://malaysia.rs-online.com/web/c/passiv...tion=Inductance

whats your thoughts on comparing felix and bada lb5500? tongue.gif

This post has been edited by NoobHacker: Nov 28 2012, 09:30 PM
Bernie7
post Nov 28 2012, 09:33 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
59 posts

Joined: Dec 2009


QUOTE(NoobHacker @ Nov 28 2012, 09:25 PM)
thanks for the correction.
btw, since you have so much experience in building felix, can you recommend me what kind of CMC is best for felix?
http://malaysia.rs-online.com/web/c/passiv...tion=Inductance
*
wah...the nippon chem 3mH one is rm28!!

pm me if you need the CMC, think I have spare.


Added on November 28, 2012, 9:42 pm
QUOTE(NoobHacker @ Nov 28 2012, 09:25 PM)

whats your thoughts on comparing felix and bada lb5500? tongue.gif
*
Both make me feel good that I did something to reduce mains noise laugh.gif

I didn't do an A-B.

You should also use good quality sockets. I manage to cram the felix into a MK 2 socket metal box. Be careful not to short anything to the box!!!

This post has been edited by Bernie7: Nov 28 2012, 09:42 PM
TSNoobHacker
post Nov 29 2012, 12:07 AM

huehue
******
Senior Member
1,687 posts

Joined: Dec 2010
QUOTE(Bernie7 @ Nov 28 2012, 09:33 PM)
wah...the nippon chem 3mH one is rm28!!

pm me if you need the CMC, think I have spare.


Added on November 28, 2012, 9:42 pm
Both make me feel good that I did something to reduce mains noise  laugh.gif

I didn't do an A-B.

You should also use good quality sockets. I manage to cram the felix into a MK 2 socket metal box. Be careful not to short anything to the box!!!
*
so you recommend nippon chem CMCs? thumbup.gif this is 1.5mH(you mentioned 3mH) and 70Ω(you mentioned 350Ω), i really only need a little bit power to power up my dac
I'll be getting new dac casing. Its pretty huge around 300mm x 300mm. I'm going to install felix, usb to spdif , maybe 2 or 3 transformers ,and my dac's pcb tongue.gif I'll pm you more about ur extra cmc after getting that casing.

anyway is this capacitor ok to connect to ground?
http://malaysia.rs-online.com/web/p/cerami...citors/7215054/

I only connect felix then direct to the wall socket, so i can save one audio power cable laugh.gif currently using normal audio US plug
Bernie7
post Nov 29 2012, 08:44 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
59 posts

Joined: Dec 2009


QUOTE(NoobHacker @ Nov 29 2012, 12:07 AM)
so you recommend nippon chem CMCs?  thumbup.gif  this is 1.5mH(you mentioned 3mH) and 70Ω(you mentioned 350Ω), i really only need a little bit power to power up my dac
I'll be getting new dac casing. Its pretty huge around 300mm x 300mm. I'm going to install felix, usb to spdif , maybe 2 or 3  transformers ,and my dac's pcb  tongue.gif  I'll pm you more about ur extra cmc after getting that casing.

anyway is this capacitor ok to connect to ground?
http://malaysia.rs-online.com/web/p/cerami...citors/7215054/

I only connect felix then direct to the wall socket, so i can save one audio power cable  laugh.gif currently using normal audio US plug
*
Look further down the RS page, there're two 3mH cmc's. And it is in milliohms not ohms shocking.gif
Nah nippon chem one way too pricey.

Why add more caps? What you have is already enough unless you want to change the felix design. Better to use X2 rated caps for safety in this app. When X2 caps fail, they open not short.

Yup if you can, connect the filter inside your dac box.
TSNoobHacker
post Nov 29 2012, 03:14 PM

huehue
******
Senior Member
1,687 posts

Joined: Dec 2010
QUOTE(Bernie7 @ Nov 29 2012, 08:44 AM)
Look further down the RS page, there're two 3mH cmc's. And it is in milliohms not ohms  shocking.gif
Nah nippon chem one way too pricey.

Why add more caps? What you have is already enough unless you want to change the felix design. Better to use X2 rated caps for safety in this app. When X2 caps fail, they open not short.

Yup if you can, connect the filter inside your dac box.
*
too confuse about selecting CMCs rclxub.gif i don't have any knowledge with it. will PM you soon since your CMC is most suitable for felix.
That is Y capacitor by Lex which available in most power conditioners, including BADA LB5500 and it able to "drain out" surge voltages.

EDIT: i though these were 10 pcs price, but realised it must buy 10 units together doh.gif thats pretty expensive, decided to disassemble from my old plastic-broke surge protector

This post has been edited by NoobHacker: Nov 29 2012, 03:37 PM
lex
post Nov 29 2012, 08:19 PM

Old Am I?
Group Icon
VIP
18,182 posts

Joined: Jan 2005
From: Dagobah
QUOTE(NoobHacker @ Nov 29 2012, 12:07 AM)
so you recommend nippon chem CMCs?  thumbup.gif  this is 1.5mH(you mentioned 3mH) and 70Ω(you mentioned 350Ω), i really only need a little bit power to power up my dac
I'll be getting new dac casing. Its pretty huge around 300mm x 300mm. I'm going to install felix, usb to spdif , maybe 2 or 3  transformers ,and my dac's pcb  tongue.gif  I'll pm you more about ur extra cmc after getting that casing.
QUOTE(NoobHacker @ Nov 29 2012, 03:14 PM)
too confuse about selecting CMCs  rclxub.gif  i don't have any knowledge with it. will PM you soon since your CMC is most suitable for felix.
These chokes should have very low resistance and able to handle big currents. Usually in the range of 1mH to 5mH (common to see 2mH to 3mH in pre-built filters). The bigger the inductance the better, but beware of the resistance and current rating (ie. the bigger the inductane, the longer the wires used thus additional resistance would be present that could reduce the current as well as generate more heat). If you can find spoiled true power PSUs, you can find and salvage them easily (plus could be cheaper). tongue.gif

QUOTE(NoobHacker @ Nov 29 2012, 12:07 AM)
I only connect felix then direct to the wall socket, so i can save one audio power cable  laugh.gif currently using normal audio US plug
Rather than US-style plugs, recommend using Malaysian/UK style 3-pin plug system. Makes it easier to use with standard wall sockets and extensions. wink.gif

QUOTE(NoobHacker @ Nov 29 2012, 12:07 AM)
anyway is this capacitor ok to connect to ground?
http://malaysia.rs-online.com/web/p/cerami...citors/7215054/
QUOTE(NoobHacker @ Nov 29 2012, 03:14 PM)
That is Y capacitor by Lex which available in most power conditioners, including BADA LB5500 and it able to "drain out" surge voltages.

EDIT: i though these were 10 pcs price, but realised it must buy 10 units together doh.gif  thats pretty expensive, decided to disassemble from my old plastic-broke surge protector
Yups, those are the capacitors to use. Do check the datasheet provided. These are qualified for power line X/Y filter capacitors. And depending on component type and price per unit, many are usually sold in batches. nod.gif

TSNoobHacker
post Nov 29 2012, 10:25 PM

huehue
******
Senior Member
1,687 posts

Joined: Dec 2010
QUOTE(lex @ Nov 29 2012, 08:19 PM)
These chokes should have very low resistance and able to handle big currents. Usually in the range of 1mH to 5mH (common to see 2mH to 3mH in pre-built filters). The bigger the inductance the better, but beware of the resistance and current rating (ie. the bigger the inductane, the longer the wires used thus additional resistance would be present that could reduce the current as well as generate more heat). If you can find spoiled true power PSUs, you can find and salvage them easily (plus could be cheaper). tongue.gif

Rather than US-style plugs, recommend using Malaysian/UK style 3-pin plug system. Makes it easier to use with standard wall sockets and extensions. wink.gif

Yups, those are the capacitors to use. Do check the datasheet provided. These are qualified for power line X/Y filter capacitors. And depending on component type and price per unit, many are usually sold in batches. nod.gif
*
I really don't have so much psu to salvage doh.gif I'm waiting his reply.
My power cable is US plug and I can't find audio UK socket. Just wanted to try power cable last time. I think i can't hear the socket difference sweat.gif US plugs are cute somemore ( D= )

They sells 10 unit or above, thats pretty expensive for me for 10 units. I'll just salvage my old plastic-broke surge protector. ngam ngam 3 unit of them in it.
Bernie7
post Dec 1 2012, 01:17 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
59 posts

Joined: Dec 2009


Once I plugged Aztech Homeplug into a distributor that's connected to the wall socket that's also used by my hifi. Wondered why Homeplug didn't work to carry the router signal thru the ac cable. Then I realised my Felix filter was getting rid of all the carrier signal in the ac. When I changed Homeplug to another location, it's ok. That's when I knew the Felix filter works a treat!

Two lessons to take home:
1. Once you use the filter for your DAC, the rest of your hifi gear plugged into the same mains socket will benefit too! This includes power amp, TV etc

2. Never use Homeplug stuff on same ac line with your audio setup or risk polluting the ac for your hifi.
pokwang
post Dec 2 2012, 08:08 AM

New Member
*
Junior Member
31 posts

Joined: Jan 2003


Why don't you try these?

Schaffner noise filter

user posted image

And if you need more amps, try these or these.

This post has been edited by pokwang: Dec 2 2012, 08:49 AM
TSNoobHacker
post Dec 2 2012, 11:36 PM

huehue
******
Senior Member
1,687 posts

Joined: Dec 2010
QUOTE(Bernie7 @ Dec 1 2012, 01:17 PM)
Once I plugged Aztech Homeplug into a distributor that's connected to the wall socket that's also used by my hifi. Wondered why Homeplug didn't work to carry the router signal thru the ac cable. Then I realised my Felix filter was getting rid of all the carrier signal in the ac. When I changed Homeplug to another location, it's ok. That's when I knew the Felix filter works a treat!

Two lessons to take home:
1. Once you use the filter for your DAC, the rest of your hifi gear plugged into the same mains socket will benefit too! This includes power amp, TV etc

2. Never use Homeplug stuff on same ac line with your audio setup or risk polluting the ac for your hifi.
*
wow then i'll be waiting your CMC drool.gif i never expect it so powerful.
there are something like AC enacom so i believes it will make changes to another electronic devices, but that way too expensive too (rm300+)
can't wait to see how it changes the LED image quality brows.gif


Added on December 2, 2012, 11:38 pm
QUOTE(pokwang @ Dec 2 2012, 08:08 AM)
Why don't you try these?

Schaffner noise filter

user posted image

And if you need more amps, try these or these.
*
i want to play with DIY mah biggrin.gif just my opinion, if this works very very well then there are no existance of felix project hmm.gif

This post has been edited by NoobHacker: Dec 2 2012, 11:38 PM
Bernie7
post Dec 3 2012, 11:17 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
59 posts

Joined: Dec 2009


QUOTE(pokwang @ Dec 2 2012, 08:08 AM)
Why don't you try these?

Schaffner noise filter
Here are some reasons

1. DIY - you can select and use much better parts, like polyprop caps for better performance

2. the DIY design may be better than standard shelf filters, seriously

3. Can build the DIY filter into a distributor to feed more than one device

4. DIY (if you can do it) is much more fun and educational smile.gif

Cons

1. May be more costly, even cost your life if not careful

2. More lehcheh

pokwang
post Dec 6 2012, 09:15 PM

New Member
*
Junior Member
31 posts

Joined: Jan 2003


QUOTE(Bernie7 @ Dec 3 2012, 11:17 AM)
Here are some reasons

1. DIY - you can select and use much better parts, like polyprop caps for better performance

2. the DIY design may be better than standard shelf filters, seriously

3. Can build the DIY filter into a distributor to feed more than one device

4. DIY (if you can do it) is much more fun and educational  smile.gif

Cons

1. May be more costly, even cost your life if not careful

2. More lehcheh
*
1. Poly caps are not "better", they have their pros and cons compared with other material, and is not a "one-size-fits-all" panacea that audiophile like to believe they are. Claiming otherwise shows lack of understanding of engineering principle that turned Hi-Fi into a joke it is now.

2. Yes, but what the OP wanted to build was a bog standard filter you can buy anywhere for cheap. Honestly, why bother?

3. You can feed as many device you want with an off-the -shelf choke. No different than DIY.

4. Educational? Get an oscilloscope or data capture equipment then we'll talk about "educational". All I see here is just audiophile dogma repeated ad nauseum.
TSNoobHacker
post Dec 10 2012, 04:46 PM

huehue
******
Senior Member
1,687 posts

Joined: Dec 2010
QUOTE(pokwang @ Dec 6 2012, 09:15 PM)
1. Poly caps are not "better", they have their pros and cons compared with other material, and is not a "one-size-fits-all" panacea that audiophile like to believe they are. Claiming otherwise shows lack of understanding of engineering principle that turned Hi-Fi into a joke it is now.

2. Yes, but what the OP wanted to build was a bog standard filter you can buy anywhere for cheap. Honestly, why bother?

3. You can feed as many device you want with an off-the -shelf choke. No different than DIY.

4. Educational? Get an oscilloscope or data capture equipment then we'll talk about "educational". All I see here is just audiophile dogma repeated ad nauseum.
*
hmm cool down. just want to share my experience. in hifi there are a lot of things hard to be explained using enginnering knowledge. for example, last year when i just get my denon d2000 headphone, I was searching is there any difference on burn-in the headphone drivers, i get a lot of results. A lot of enginner stand out and say he has been a audio enginner for 1x years and he can say there aren't any difference in burning drivers. But i really hear difference before and after.

The second time was my CM6631 converter, I have been using USB build in power for long time to power up it, until i hook it to my DAC's transformer, the sound definately become much cleaner. How the power will affect the DIGITAL part of audio processing? i google around, I get no answer.

I admit there are a lot of audiophiles talk a lot of things without any knowledge like changing sata cables produce better sound. what if i store the music in the ram and play it, will it performs better? they will answer not really, huh whistling.gif

anyway im very satisfied with this kind of DIY compared to those RM300++ filters
empire23
post Dec 17 2012, 08:29 PM

Team Island Hopper
Group Icon
Staff
9,394 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Bladin Point, Northern Territory
Well I used to build a few of these on my own and have a few simple rules when it comes to building them. That was years ago of course and now I just buy them from Mouser or order them in via Rexel.

1) Always use the proper EMI and RFI filtering caps for the job. ESR is less of an issue here.
2) Keep your bleed resistor to capacitor connection as short leads as possible.
3) A decently wound common mode choke goes a long way but always get something with the right saturation.
4) Always worry about leakage current.
5) If you have time to think about a filter, a few MOVs can't hurt (but they also increase leakage current)
TSNoobHacker
post Dec 19 2012, 02:06 PM

huehue
******
Senior Member
1,687 posts

Joined: Dec 2010
QUOTE(empire23 @ Dec 17 2012, 08:29 PM)
Well I used to build a few of these on my own and have a few simple rules when it comes to building them. That was years ago of course and now I just buy them from Mouser or order them in via Rexel.

1) Always use the proper EMI and RFI filtering caps for the job. ESR is less of an issue here.
2) Keep your bleed resistor to capacitor connection as short leads as possible.
3) A decently wound common mode choke goes a long way but always get something with the right saturation.
4) Always worry about leakage current.
5) If you have time to think about a filter, a few MOVs can't hurt (but they also increase leakage current)
*
Hi, thanks for sharing your experience
I usually didn't worry about my equipment's safety since i lived in this house already 13+ years, electronics never sudden kena surge or something, so i probably don't add protection components into my power filter. (fuse is a must,but both amp and dac already have them)

1) i think WIMA can do the job but i don't know its fake or not doh.gif bought from china, but it really make difference.
2) after googling bleed resistor i think i'm not using it
3) I already confused for a long time, which time of CMC is suitable for power filter?
user posted image
or this?
user posted image
4) I was thinking about series the CMC but from googling it will increase leakage current so i didn't do that. I've read from another forum they uses very high inductance for their power filter, up to 36mH
5) I have zero knowledge in that doh.gif Will think about that when i'm free
TSNoobHacker
post Jan 30 2013, 05:13 PM, updated 7y ago

huehue
******
Senior Member
1,687 posts

Joined: Dec 2010
close the previous post if im not allowed to do this (have a lot of diy power filter information there)

picture first
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Changes :
1. Uses common mode choke instead of normal choke (Its wrong, do not learn) , provides more detailed sound
2. Uses a pcb and fix it in DAC
3. Full solder & screwless design
4. Added Y-capacitor and connected to ground. (salvaged from broken surge protector)

Conclusion :
1. For budget wise, choose well-made filter or 1*big polyprop caps is enough.
2. It does significient changes, tried A/B comparasion. Changes depend on your current environment too.

Do guide me for any enchancements / errors for this power filter notworthy.gif

This post has been edited by NoobHacker: Nov 20 2013, 09:09 PM
penmarker
post Jan 30 2013, 06:25 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,878 posts

Joined: Jun 2007


Is a power filter the same as power conditioner?
TSNoobHacker
post Jan 30 2013, 08:20 PM

huehue
******
Senior Member
1,687 posts

Joined: Dec 2010
QUOTE(penmarker @ Jan 30 2013, 06:25 PM)
Is a power filter the same as power conditioner?
*
both are same thing afaik hmm.gif
mrsu
post Jan 30 2013, 09:54 PM

Casual
***
Junior Member
358 posts

Joined: Mar 2012
Should be the same,between,how much is the cost? smile.gif
penmarker
post Jan 31 2013, 07:37 AM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,878 posts

Joined: Jun 2007


My turntable setup shares the plug with my computer. Every time the pc is turned on or even plugged in, there will be a very noticeable buzzing. This however doesn't happen to my headphone amp.
Methinks me should get one of those.
blacklizard90
post Jan 31 2013, 07:42 AM

On my way
****
Senior Member
657 posts

Joined: Jun 2009
From: KL, Ampang, Desa Pandan


QUOTE(penmarker @ Jan 31 2013, 07:37 AM)
My turntable setup shares the plug with my computer. Every time the pc is turned on or even plugged in, there will be a very noticeable buzzing. This however doesn't happen to my headphone amp.
Methinks me should get one of those.
*
Try changing your PC PSU smile.gif

If you got free time, bring it over to my place, test with my pc as i got a quite good PSU(at least that's how i solve the buzzing issue with my cmoy powered with switching psu)

This post has been edited by blacklizard90: Jan 31 2013, 07:43 AM
TSNoobHacker
post Jan 31 2013, 09:47 PM

huehue
******
Senior Member
1,687 posts

Joined: Dec 2010
QUOTE(mrsu @ Jan 30 2013, 09:54 PM)
Should be the same,between,how much is the cost? smile.gif
*
<RM50, bundle and bulk price when i were purchasing those component
QUOTE(penmarker @ Jan 31 2013, 07:37 AM)
My turntable setup shares the plug with my computer. Every time the pc is turned on or even plugged in, there will be a very noticeable buzzing. This however doesn't happen to my headphone amp.
Methinks me should get one of those.
*
i think thats your computer supply's problem. BTW, this filter buzzes on startup, after a awhile it silents.
the buzz doesnt go into analog signal (headphone sound)


UPDATE : WARNING :
THE DESIGN IS WRONG. Y capacitor should BEFORE the common mode choke or its not effective.
I've changed the conductors to copper instead of soldering cream, and moved the y capacitor of course.
too tired and forgot to take pic just now, will take pic when i reasemble my dac again.

Why im comfirm the design is wrong? before correcting it, the sound have a layer of bloomy sound, very unlistenable on low volume but it hides on high volume. Not sure its solder cream conductor's fault or y capacitor's fault.
Most of the power filters put y capacitor before Common mode choke but the diagram put the y capacitor after the CMC doh.gif

This post has been edited by NoobHacker: Jan 31 2013, 09:59 PM
penmarker
post Feb 1 2013, 12:24 AM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,878 posts

Joined: Jun 2007


Good thing you found out the design is wrong early. Might go kaboom taking your audio rig with it laugh.gif

Actually not the computer's PSU alone, the rig is sharing power with the router, phone, modem, tube amp, list goes on. Even turned off and unplugged there will be buzzing present (although not as sever as when the computer is on). Simple solution given would be pulling the grounding all the way out to the backyard into a buried pole. See how things will go, but otherwise I'm not so bothered with the buzzing/humming.
wildwestgoh
post Feb 1 2013, 10:11 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
2,211 posts

Joined: Jul 2005


Can TS also state the price of each component?
Might want to do this for my speaker as turning it on and off will give a pop or BOOOOMM!! or... does it have to do with my speaker's Amp circuit instead? hmm.gif
Pewufod
post Feb 1 2013, 05:34 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,139 posts

Joined: Jul 2008


TS got any plan to produce and sell ?
TSNoobHacker
post Feb 1 2013, 07:42 PM

huehue
******
Senior Member
1,687 posts

Joined: Dec 2010
QUOTE(penmarker @ Feb 1 2013, 12:24 AM)
Good thing you found out the design is wrong early. Might go kaboom taking your audio rig with it laugh.gif

Actually not the computer's PSU alone, the rig is sharing power with the router, phone, modem, tube amp, list goes on. Even turned off and unplugged there will be buzzing present (although not as sever as when the computer is on). Simple solution given would be pulling the grounding all the way out to the backyard into a buried pole. See how things will go, but otherwise I'm not so bothered with the buzzing/humming.
*
It won't kaboom with this kind of error tongue.gif
I never had experience with grounding. A lot of people says they get noise from grounding. Not sure if its bad or better.
Some people will settle their ground using special way I never research what it that.

QUOTE(wildwestgoh @ Feb 1 2013, 10:11 AM)
Can TS also state the price of each component?
Might want to do this for my speaker as turning it on and off will give a pop or BOOOOMM!! or... does it have to do with my speaker's Amp circuit instead? hmm.gif
*
I don't know the price as well as i bought together with other things so its lesser expenses. The most expensive part is WIMA 1000v 1uF, around 5 times expensive than 20mH common mode choke
The pop isn't the current's problem IMO. A not-so-well designed component will produce this kind of sound.

QUOTE(Pewufod @ Feb 1 2013, 05:34 PM)
TS got any plan to produce and sell ?
*
Currently no, i thought people always prefer prebuilt power socket + filter hmm.gif But comparing to those big power conditioner this is much better than them since you can choose the CMC suitable for your component like higher inductance for DAC.
pokwang
post Feb 2 2013, 03:13 AM

New Member
*
Junior Member
31 posts

Joined: Jan 2003


GOOD. Now that TS has scratched that itch of going DIY and "boutique" components, why don't he go ahead and ABX his baby with off-the-shelf unit like I suggested in the previous thread. He'll be very surprised how little/non-existent difference in sound "boutique"/Audiophool components make other than make the snake-oil traders rich.
TSNoobHacker
post Feb 4 2013, 06:01 PM

huehue
******
Senior Member
1,687 posts

Joined: Dec 2010
QUOTE(pokwang @ Feb 2 2013, 03:13 AM)
GOOD. Now that TS has scratched that itch of going DIY and "boutique" components, why don't he go ahead and ABX his baby with off-the-shelf unit like I suggested in the previous thread. He'll be very surprised how little/non-existent difference in sound "boutique"/Audiophool components make other than make the snake-oil traders rich.
*
why u so comfirm that boutique components make no/very little difference? did u do the experiment with measuring devices? mind posting the pics? tongue.gif

Spending in filter,even its luxury or waste its ok for me, since i learn something but i cannot accept invest too much on power cord or power cable shakehead.gif
LittleGhost
post Feb 4 2013, 07:09 PM

臭小鬼
*******
Senior Member
4,234 posts

Joined: Nov 2004


QUOTE(NoobHacker @ Feb 4 2013, 06:01 PM)
why u so comfirm that boutique components make no/very little difference? did u do the experiment with measuring devices? mind posting the pics?  tongue.gif


makes a difference, measurable if you do the following:

1) high speed
2) high performance

Unfortunately:

1) Boutique components often have "shittier" specs.
2) You can't possibly tell the difference unless your hearing is better than a 100k USD spect analyzer.





ectt
post Mar 10 2013, 11:30 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,049 posts

Joined: Apr 2012


yes, some psu got the independent power filter board. may consider to reuse it.
DIY is fun
TSNoobHacker
post Nov 20 2013, 09:08 PM

huehue
******
Senior Member
1,687 posts

Joined: Dec 2010
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


new update..
now uses silver plated occ as conductor
removed the pcb because the big capacitor, the soldering cream almost touch the screw, which connects 115VAC to ground.
another reason is the big capacitor can't go through the hole

just changed a new soldering head.. the quality darn good like changed a new high quality soldering kit drool.gif this is my first project that solders so nicely.

removed the Y-capacitor to follow the genuine felix design whistling.gif now the ground only connects to chassis

This post has been edited by NoobHacker: Nov 20 2013, 09:09 PM
k3lvinNdad
post Nov 20 2013, 09:26 PM

Uulala
****
Senior Member
510 posts

Joined: Sep 2012
From: Malaysia


QUOTE(NoobHacker @ Nov 20 2013, 09:08 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


new update..
now uses silver plated occ as conductor
removed the pcb because the big capacitor, the soldering cream almost touch the screw, which connects 115VAC to ground.
another reason is the big capacitor can't go through the hole

just changed a new soldering head.. the quality darn good like changed a new high quality soldering kit  drool.gif this is my first project that solders so nicely.

removed the Y-capacitor to follow the genuine felix design  whistling.gif  now the ground only connects to chassis
*
That Capacitor is SOOO HUGE...what value and how much is it?
lex
post Nov 20 2013, 10:04 PM

Old Am I?
Group Icon
VIP
18,182 posts

Joined: Jan 2005
From: Dagobah
QUOTE(NoobHacker @ Jan 30 2013, 05:13 PM)
close the previous post if im not allowed to do this (have a lot of diy power filter information there)
*
Just merged them, so that most of those information will be retained in this thread. icon_rolleyes.gif
TSNoobHacker
post Feb 25 2014, 12:48 AM

huehue
******
Senior Member
1,687 posts

Joined: Dec 2010
Attached Image
latest revision. the PCB is used to build tube amp but i use to build filter. reasons are :

1. the PCB is very hard to adjust size, some too large and some too small. if cut big ones, the screw hole would not maintain 4 original holes.
2. The previous ones, direct solder and cable tie, damaged when bring it oversea, and damages again when comes back.
3. Extremely solid and 4 screw hole. easy to solder too.
lex
post Mar 3 2014, 11:21 PM

Old Am I?
Group Icon
VIP
18,182 posts

Joined: Jan 2005
From: Dagobah
QUOTE(NoobHacker @ Feb 25 2014, 12:48 AM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
latest revision. the PCB is used to build tube amp but i use to build filter. reasons are :

1. the PCB is very hard to adjust size, some too large and some too small. if cut big ones, the screw hole would not maintain 4 original holes.
2. The previous ones, direct solder and cable tie, damaged when bring it oversea, and damages again when comes back.
3. Extremely solid and 4 screw hole. easy to solder too.
*
Looks more like tag boards than "PCB". Can simply Google "tag boards" to see what I meant. Anyway the distance between the contacts on the tag board are usually fixed.. tongue.gif

TSNoobHacker
post Mar 5 2014, 04:09 AM

huehue
******
Senior Member
1,687 posts

Joined: Dec 2010
QUOTE(lex @ Mar 3 2014, 11:21 PM)
Looks more like tag boards than "PCB". Can simply Google "tag boards" to see what I meant. Anyway the distance between the contacts on the tag board are usually fixed..  tongue.gif
*
actually thats the one they used to DIY tube amplifiers

 

Switch to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0406sec    0.52    6 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 5th June 2020 - 07:43 PM