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> HIZBUT TAHRIR MALAYSIA, u support? malay, kam kam inside

Einjahr
post Jan 18 2013, 09:41 PM


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QUOTE(rendezvouss @ Jan 18 2013, 09:34 PM)
you know what i dislike most abt hizbut? like the talibans, wahabbis, qutbism, salafists, islamic republic of iran, ALL of them bring Islam backwards with their dogmatic, literalistic, hardline, ultra-conservative intepretations. these rigid doctrines of Islam came after the fall of the ottoman empire in 1923 and the islamic revolution in 1979 as a reactionary response against the backdrop of western modernization and secularism and some insecure muslims felt a need to restore a puritanical brand of islam back to the public sphere. strange thing is there was never such thing as an islamic state even in the ottoman empire....
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exactly. the first four caliphs were also elected in a democratic manner. Through elections albeit on a different form. caliphs were elected by the Shura council( who are peoples representatives)
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Einjahr
post Jan 18 2013, 09:43 PM


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So whats this talk about Islamic state versus democratic haram pengaruh amerikaaa lol

Even the Caliphs were elected, and they didn't elect themselves, but i guess only Muwaiya did

This post has been edited by Einjahr: Jan 18 2013, 09:44 PM
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Mie131085
post Jan 18 2013, 09:49 PM


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actually hizbut tahrir intention is to revived back the khulafa system like abassyiyah/uthmaniah empire....
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rendezvouss
post Jan 18 2013, 09:54 PM


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QUOTE(Einjahr @ Jan 18 2013, 09:41 PM)
exactly. the first four caliphs were also elected in a democratic manner. Through elections albeit on a different form. caliphs were elected by the Shura council( who are peoples representatives)
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The problem with these hardline conservatives is they forgot the spirit of Ijtihad where everyone is struggling to be better Muslims. So many Muslims out there are doing good deed with their right hand and sinning with their left hand. That is the reality ultra-conservatives do not want to deal with. They do not want to deal with the process of becoming better Muslims. To them its haram this haram that hudud this hudud that. Memang sedap dengar haram ni haram tu. Of course anybody with a pea brain can say that. Thus, these puritans shun gay Muslims, non-hijabi Muslim womens as they are seen as sinners and see them as "unpure" and label all progressive movements as trying to "liberalise" and"secularise" Islam.


And because (useless) moderate Muslims fail to speak up, you have a controversial person like Irshad Manji - probably osama's worst nightmare personified - but THANK GOD there are even more sane reformists like Tariq Ramadan, Yusuf Hamza and Harun Yahya. And in Malaysia you have progressive muftis like Dr Asri Maza. Even then Dr Asri is seen with disdain by ultra-conservatives.


Anyway, it took the Catholic Church hundreds of years before they finally let lose control of its people from the shackles of religious slavery and embrace freedom of independent thinking. I believe the time might come too, for Islam but you need more Tariq Ramadans, Harun Yahyas, Yusuf Hamzas

This post has been edited by rendezvouss: Jan 18 2013, 10:00 PM
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Einjahr
post Jan 18 2013, 09:58 PM


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QUOTE(rendezvouss @ Jan 18 2013, 09:54 PM)
The problem with these hardline conservatives is they forgot the spirit of Ijtihad where everyone is struggling to be better Muslims. So many Muslims out there are doing good deed with their right hand and sinning with their left hand. That is the reality ultra-conservatives do not want to deal with. They do not want to deal with the process of becoming better Muslims. To them its haram this haram that hudud this hudud that. Of course anybody with a pea brain can say that. Thus, these puritans shun gay Muslims, non-hijabi Muslim womens as they are seen as sinners and see them as "unpure" and label all progressive movements as trying to "liberalise" and"secularise" Islam.
And because (useless) moderate Muslims fail to reform, you have a controversial person like Irshad Manji - probably osama's worst nightmare personified - but THANK GOD there are even more sane reformists like Tariq Ramadan, Yusuf Hamza and Harun Yahya.
Anyway, it took the Catholic Church hundreds of years before they finally let lose control of its people from the shackles of religious slavery and embrace freedom of independent thinking. I believe the time might come too, for Islam but you need more Tariq Ramadans, Harun Yahyas, Yusuf Hamzas
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do you know its considered ' heretical' to even discuss Ibnu Rushd's contributions in some circles esp people who came out of so called " islamic" universities in Malaysia ? laugh.gif Before you begin, they already painted Rushd as a deviant and a heretic. It's like they're ashamed to be reminded that the father of modern secularism was one of their own.
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chicharitos
post Jan 18 2013, 10:00 PM


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QUOTE(rendezvouss @ Jan 18 2013, 09:54 PM)
The problem with these hardline conservatives is they forgot the spirit of Ijtihad where everyone is struggling to be better Muslims. So many Muslims out there are doing good deed with their right hand and sinning with their left hand. That is the reality ultra-conservatives do not want to deal with. They do not want to deal with the process of becoming better Muslims. To them its haram this haram that hudud this hudud that. Of course anybody with a pea brain can say that. Thus, these puritans shun gay Muslims, non-hijabi Muslim womens as they are seen as sinners and see them as "unpure" and label all progressive movements as trying to "liberalise" and"secularise" Islam.
And because (useless) moderate Muslims fail to speak up, you have a controversial person like Irshad Manji - probably osama's worst nightmare personified - but THANK GOD there are even more sane reformists like Tariq Ramadan, Yusuf Hamza and Harun Yahya.
Anyway, it took the Catholic Church hundreds of years before they finally let lose control of its people from the shackles of religious slavery and embrace freedom of independent thinking. I believe the time might come too, for Islam but you need more Tariq Ramadans, Harun Yahyas, Yusuf Hamzas
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most of them are those who preach in the west. look on abdal hakim jackson & zaid shakir they are great muslim thinkers too
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Einjahr
post Jan 18 2013, 10:04 PM


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QUOTE(chicharitos @ Jan 18 2013, 10:00 PM)
most of them are those who preach in the west. look on abdal hakim jackson & zaid shakir they are great muslim thinkers too
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the best dakwah is to improve ones-self.
So you and your community can be an example/inspiration to others.

Action speaks louder than mere words.

This post has been edited by Einjahr: Jan 18 2013, 10:04 PM
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rendezvouss
post Jan 18 2013, 10:07 PM


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QUOTE(Einjahr @ Jan 18 2013, 09:58 PM)
do you know its considered ' heretical' to even discuss Ibnu Rushd's contributions  in some circles esp people who came out of so called " islamic" universities in Malaysia ? laugh.gif  Before you begin, they  already painted Rushd as a deviant and a heretic. It's like they're ashamed to be reminded that the father of modern secularism was one of their own.
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its an insecure reactionary response by some conservatives. these conservative muslims largely see atatuk's brand of secularism with disdain (ataturk was a secularist who is anti religion and not even neutral towards religion in the first place) see how secularism in the western world had reduced the influence of religion in the public life and didnt want the same thing happen in the muslim world and hence the insecure need to keep a firm grip on religion and espousing value slike social policing for un-islamic behaviour. the problem is, when u impose religion on people, how u know ifpple practise rleigion out of fearor because they believe in it?

ultra conservatives view progressives with disdain as they see them as trying to "unpure" the religion. progressives argue that one can be a better muslim in a free society as it is a true test that they comply and do what god ask them to do out of their own convictions freely and that when religion is impose, how would u know if pple are doing it out of fear or because pple believe in it??
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rendezvouss
post Jan 18 2013, 10:09 PM


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QUOTE(chicharitos @ Jan 18 2013, 10:00 PM)
most of them are those who preach in the west. look on abdal hakim jackson & zaid shakir they are great muslim thinkers too
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Don't forget in Malaysia you have Dr Asri Maza. Those pondok 'O' level muftis see people like him as a thread to the ultra-conservative establishment...
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Einjahr
post Jan 18 2013, 10:15 PM


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QUOTE(rendezvouss @ Jan 18 2013, 10:07 PM)
its an insecure reactionary response by some conservatives. these conservative muslims largely see atatuk's brand of secularism with disdain (ataturk was a secularist who is anti religion and not even neutral towards religion in the first place) see how secularism in the western world had reduced the influence of religion in the public life and didnt want the same thing happen in the muslim world and hence the insecure need to keep a firm grip on religion and espousing value slike social policing for un-islamic behaviour. the  problem is, when u impose religion on people, how u know ifpple practise rleigion out of fearor because they believe in it?

ultra conservatives view progressives with disdain as they see them as trying to "unpure" the religion. progressives argue that one can be a better muslim in a free society as it is a true test that they comply and do what god ask them to do out of their own convictions freely and that when religion is impose, how would u know if pple are doing it out of fear or because pple believe in it??
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muslims will get their renaissance soon enough. Same thing what the Christians went through during the Bastille revolultion.
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rendezvouss
post Jan 19 2013, 09:12 AM


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QUOTE(Einjahr @ Jan 18 2013, 10:15 PM)
muslims will get their renaissance soon enough. Same thing what the Christians went through during the Bastille revolultion.
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yes its not just Islam. any religion that practices in its rigid and puritanically conservative way is a problem. look at the catholic church in italy. for eg., the hardline conservatives believe in punishing apostates, the progressives want to know the deep root of the problem

over in malaysia you already have ridiculous fart-wahs for almost every single trivial matter but nobody wants tospeak on larger issues like corruption, nepotism and cronism. shakehead.gif


Malaysians may be able to sort things out but the truth in the matter that enforcing some kind of religious law enforcement on the faithful to do their religious obligations is still WRONG in my opinion. People of faith should know that temptations are all around, you can choose to follow that temptation or refrain from it. That's logic.
whistling.gif


This post has been edited by rendezvouss: Jan 19 2013, 05:18 PM
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Legau89
post Jan 22 2013, 01:30 PM


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Wow... So many secular....
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yuusuke-kun
post Jan 22 2013, 01:35 PM


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ikhwanul muslimin-type of movement, mukhayyam, rehlah, usrah, katibah, street da'wah, jaulah, all in one, wow, Islam is universal, hizbut tahrir on the other hand... their activity is very limited smile.gif
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yed
post Jan 22 2013, 01:48 PM


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7e yg mana satu ni?...area mydin ke?

QUOTE(Legau89 @ Jan 18 2013, 05:50 PM)
Kawan2... Kalau anda mahu tahu mengenai Hizbut Tahrir atau HT... Sila pergi bertanya sendiri kepada ahli HT atau boleh terus pergi ke pejabat HT di seksyen 7, Bangi (berhadapan dgn 7e) yg sentiasa terbuka melayani tetamu yg ikhlas utk mengetahui tentang Khilafah dan method/cara dakwah HT. Atau boleh juga layari www.mykhilafah.com utk sebarang pertanyaan..

Kalau nak tanya mengenai HT, baik la jumpa orang yg betul2 HT... Kalau kita tanya org yg bukan HT, di khuatiri jawapan yg diberi tu membawa kepada fitnah... Sama macam korg nak tau pasal UMNO, mesti la tanya org UMNO utk faham UMNO. Tak kan korg tanya org PAS pulak, mesti la jawapan yg diberikan nanti tidak bertepatan. Betul tak?? Dan begitu jugalah kepada mereka yg nak tahu mengenai PAS, perlu la berjumpa ahli PAS, bukannya tanya pada org UMNO.. You got my point??

Aku suka dgn pendapat "Kita tak perlu gaduh2 mengenai perbezaan jemaah/group/organisasi". Selagi mana kita berjuang utk menegakkan kembali islam, kita sokong je la.. Dan setiap tindakan yg mereka ambil sudah semestinya bersandarkan nas quran atau hadith.. Kita pulak yg gadoh2 nk tegakkan pendirian kita ni tanpa kita sendiri ada sebarang nas utk mengatakan demokrasi tu haram atau tak.. Sedangkan aku tengok Hj. Hadi (President PAS), Ustd Hakim (President HT) dgn Ustd Fathul Bahri (Ulamak Muda UMNO) boleh je duduk semeja bincang2 pasal agama secara ilmiah.. Pasal mereka dah faham pendirian masing2.. Dan yg penting, mereka tahu perjuangan mereka utk mendaulatkan islam, cuma cara shja yg berlainan.
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Legau89
post Jan 22 2013, 02:12 PM


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QUOTE(yed @ Jan 22 2013, 01:48 PM)
7e yg mana satu ni?...area mydin ke?
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7e area sup urat keting... Depan 7e tu ada kedai dobi. Atas kedai dobi tu office Hizbut Tahrir Malaysia. Office tu terbuka utk org datang baca buku atau buat discussion mengenai politik islam... Office tu jugak selalu ada forum yg membincangkan isu2 ummat islam seluruh dunia. Sesiapa sahaja boleh masuk untuk bertanyakan sebarang soalan mengenai islam atau pun apa2 analisis politik dalam mahupun luar negara... Semoga bermanfaat...
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Legau89
post Jan 22 2013, 02:33 PM


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QUOTE(yuusuke-kun @ Jan 22 2013, 01:35 PM)
ikhwanul muslimin-type of movement, mukhayyam, rehlah, usrah, katibah, street da'wah, jaulah, all in one, wow, Islam is universal, hizbut tahrir on the other hand... their activity is very limited smile.gif
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Dear my brothers of islam... The one that I love in the name of Allah.... Hizbut Tahrir is a Politic Movement.... Their role is to muhasabah the ummah, and do political analysis... They are not military movement as for them to rise their weapon... They also not charity NGO movement who can give money or help poor people... They only can deliver fiqroh/knowledge to people who are willing to do dakwah....

If you think they do nothing in the name of dakwah, then you are wrong... People of Syria rise to bring back the Khilafah becoz of Hizbut Tahrir Syria taught them to do so... Don't you see the level of political awareness of the Syrian people compared to us??
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yuusuke-kun
post Jan 22 2013, 03:09 PM


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Muslim individual --> Baitul Muslim (family) --> Muslim Society --> Islamic Country --> Daulah Islam --> Islamic Empire (Khilafah) --> Ustaziyatul Alam (Leader of the universe)

This is what Imam Hassan Al-Banna emphasized, and we take it as guideline in building islamic society starting from the very first stage, we move among public, not underground, not very secretive. We announce to media when there is an activity held so that people can take part together. Even towards different ideology and fikrah-type of people, we see them as mad'u, at first i was surprised when Aqsa Syarif took Afdlin Shauki as their ambassador since he's not coming from religious background, but today, more and more people have become concern about Palestine issue, more people aware about the truth behind it, Islam is syumul, bet you know it. To despise those who chose to fight using democracy in liberating Islam but at the same time contributes to almost nothing to the society, i need to decline the offer.
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gestapo
post Jul 16 2013, 01:13 PM


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obviously we are going to join the caliphate, i wonder during that time how will we deal with our neighbors?

finally umno/BN will cease to exist and malaysia join a greater cause. hope everyone wil be happier


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Mr.Docter
post Jul 16 2013, 01:14 PM


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QUOTE(gestapo @ Jul 16 2013, 01:13 PM)
obviously we are going to join the caliphate, i wonder during that time how will we deal with our neighbors?

finally umno/BN will cease to exist and malaysia join a greater cause. hope everyone wil be happier
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What's the reason of bump bro? Currently Googling about HT? laugh.gif
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gestapo
post Jul 16 2013, 01:17 PM


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QUOTE(Mr.Docter @ Jul 16 2013, 01:14 PM)
What's the reason of bump bro? Currently Googling about HT? laugh.gif
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suddenly FB spam about the return of Caliphates , would be good to finally have world peace yo. nod.gif
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