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> Klang Valley property prices fell in Q2&Q3 2012 V9, Is this just the beginning of a plunge?

cockee
post Mar 14 2013, 06:25 PM


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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Mar 14 2013, 06:17 PM)
Has anybody heard of Ruma Residences, Jalan Kia Peng? Cheapest is a 915sf unit going for RM 1,985,550 (after discount). That's a whopping RM 2,169 psf. But it comes with a GRR return of 6% which adds up to about RM 9,927 per month. Monthly loan repayment 90% at BLR-2.4% would be RM 8,233.
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If you take up 90% loan, you will be burdened with RM1.7 mil debt, just to get a net cash flow of RM1.5k per month? This has not included all the maintenance fee and misc expenses. sweat.gif
If you use cash, probably you are risking RM1.9mil on 6% GRR from RM2 company? Hehehehe..
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AVFAN
post Mar 14 2013, 06:40 PM


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QUOTE(Balrog @ Mar 14 2013, 04:59 PM)
The analysis section of the propwall graph not quite correct. In Gita Bayu there are non-strata bungalow (buy residential land, build own); strata-titled bungalow (called garden villas or hill villas depending on type by developer), strata-titled town villas (essentially very low rise condominium). The analysis missed out the first type.
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quite sure u r right.

been there twice. not surprised the stratas price dropped. i din like it.
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cybermaster98
post Mar 14 2013, 06:41 PM


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QUOTE(cockee @ Mar 14 2013, 06:25 PM)
If you take up 90% loan, you will be burdened with RM1.7 mil debt, just to get a net cash flow of RM1.5k per month? This has not included all the maintenance fee and misc expenses.  sweat.gif
If you use cash, probably you are risking RM1.9mil on 6% GRR from RM2 company? Hehehehe..
Well the company is surely not a RM2 company.

http://www.the-ruma.com/creators.html

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Steven83
post Mar 14 2013, 06:44 PM


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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Mar 14 2013, 06:41 PM)
Well the company is surely not a RM2 company.

http://www.the-ruma.com/creators.html
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Even its not a RM2 company, majority still can't afford it. Except the buyer are AMINT or peri peri. Plan to change my field to oil and gas, cash really hit hard on me, as electronics manufacturing are not improving at all. hmm.gif

This post has been edited by Steven83: Mar 14 2013, 06:45 PM
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AVFAN
post Mar 14 2013, 06:45 PM


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QUOTE(tikaram @ Mar 14 2013, 04:22 PM)
brother why u did not post the price drop even knew it? until wait for me to post first one? next time need together power to fence off up group la.

everyday read this zuiko...price no drop la. show me price drop la....etc... since i come back.

prowall report and even the report ( other project for expensive house price) in jan he read show price drop but continues to say price no drop... doh.gif
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only u have the time to respond la... better save yr energy. can argue and hv some fun but no need to show "proof" la...tongue.gif

first, like i said b4, when the sky is black and cloudy, it is still possible to call it sunny, depending yr view angle.

secondly, i am now more convinced by this theory becos of this thread - that once one conceived an idea, there is no way in hell another can convince him/her the idea is wrong. very powerful indeed. do watch "inception" if u haven't. tongue.gif

This post has been edited by AVFAN: Mar 14 2013, 06:46 PM
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AMINT
post Mar 14 2013, 06:48 PM


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QUOTE(Steven83 @ Mar 14 2013, 06:44 PM)
Even its not a RM2 company, majority still can't afford it. Except the buyer are AMINT or peri peri. Plan to change my field to oil and gas, cash really hit hard on me, as electronics manufacturing are not improving at all. hmm.gif
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If i ask me, i would run far2 away from most GRR projects. Mark up the price like hell, then in actual fact, that marked up price is the money that you will get back. Huge portion goes to them though. Imho, good projects dont need GRR to sell. But that is just my personal opinion la

This post has been edited by AMINT: Mar 14 2013, 06:55 PM
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Balrog
post Mar 14 2013, 06:50 PM


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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Mar 14 2013, 06:40 PM)
Well the company is surely not a RM2 company.

http://www.the-ruma.com/creators.html
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Sometimes the company that gives you the GRR is not the same as the developer (meaning the GRR is a separate agreement with a different company).

Edit: quoted the wrong post just now.

This post has been edited by Balrog: Mar 14 2013, 07:08 PM
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cockee
post Mar 14 2013, 07:02 PM


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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Mar 14 2013, 06:41 PM)
Well the company is surely not a RM2 company.

http://www.the-ruma.com/creators.html
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Bro, many GRR scheme use reputable and established companies as the front. yes, they will build and manage it. but there will be a special purpose vehicle/company formed behind the scene to enter the rental guarantee agreement with buyers. financial risks will be transferred to this RM2 company. u can sue them and they just declare the company bankrupt.

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EddyLB
post Mar 14 2013, 07:49 PM


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QUOTE(joeblows @ Mar 13 2013, 10:14 PM)
Not even necessary to put all eggs into property market to lose it all, just be over-leveraged, and buy the wrong location.
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You are too bog down with property. Until you thought millionaires have only properties.

Many millionaires become rich because they are in business. They invest in other investment class also. Their investment monies are diversified. Compared to the working class, they are in better financial position tongue.gif
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joeblows
post Mar 14 2013, 10:56 PM


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QUOTE(EddyLB @ Mar 14 2013, 07:49 PM)
You are too bog down with property. Until you thought millionaires have only properties.

Many millionaires become rich because they are in business. They invest in other investment class also. Their investment monies are diversified. Compared to the working class, they are in better financial position  tongue.gif
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Oh, I agree.

Not all millionaires will suffer. Only those who overextended themselves.

My mentor (a wise old man) used to teach me: the old term for leverage is "gearing". Life is like a bicycle, some people cycle slow, some people cycle faster. But if you take gearing from the bank, you can cycle even faster with the same amount of energy.

But if good times is like a flat road, then bad times is like a steep downhill slope. If you have gearing, you go down the hill very very fast. If not capable enough, lose control and crash.

Sometimes, even the most capable people can crash due to misjudgement or bad luck. Crash and fall, no problem if you just break your arm or your leg. Just a setback in life. So long as you don't break your neck......that's why you need helmet (backup plan B). brows.gif
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joeblows
post Mar 14 2013, 11:03 PM


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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Mar 14 2013, 06:17 PM)
Has anybody heard of Ruma Residences, Jalan Kia Peng? Cheapest is a 915sf unit going for RM 1,985,550 (after discount). That's a whopping RM 2,169 psf. But it comes with a GRR return of 6% which adds up to about RM 9,927 per month. Monthly loan repayment 90% at BLR-2.4% would be RM 8,233.
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OK, the price is eye-watering.

But GRR and pricing aside, I would say the location is not the best location for a ultra-luxury accomodation, as that area of Jln Kia Peng is quite noisy, the access is bad (the entrance at Jln Kia Peng is choked with traffic at peak hours) plus the surrounding buildings (as of 2013) are not really "high-end".

The other end of KLCC - Lorong Kuda, Persiaran Stonor, nearer to the Japanese Embassy area is more ideal for ultra-high-end superluxury dwellings. More quiet, the surrounding is leafy green trees despite being in the heart of town, not so many skyscrapers to block your view.

If I was expat, I'd rather rent there.

Bear in mind the typical tenant who can fork out 8-9K per mth for rental should easily afford a car, I don't think they'd walk or take LRT, crime being what it is in KL..
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kh8668
post Mar 14 2013, 11:14 PM


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how to read this? anyone can explain?

household income
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joeblows
post Mar 15 2013, 12:31 AM


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QUOTE(kh8668 @ Mar 14 2013, 11:14 PM)
how to read this? anyone can explain?

household income
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Gives breakdown of average monthly household income by race and urban/rural across the years 1970-2009. Broken further down between top 20%, middle 40% and lowest 40%.

Not a very encouraging set of statistics actually for the up up up camp.

The urban middle 40% earnings are average of 4.3k per month in 2009, that's household income btw.

The average growth rate is about 8% for every two years so one can expect the average household income stands just under RM5k per month for the middle class.

They surely can't afford properties above the RM500k bound.
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A.B.D.
post Mar 15 2013, 12:41 AM


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the top 20% in malaysia earn gross 12K/month per household on average..

this suggests most upper income couples can only borrow 500-600k in loans?? if using 50% of disposable income to pay loans...
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accetera
post Mar 15 2013, 01:39 AM


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Bayberry @ Kota Damansara - RM1,150 per sq ft

D'Latour @ Bandar Sunway - RM850 per sq ft

Lido @ Jalan Cheras (see cemetery) - RM580 per sq ft

VINA @ Bandar Tun Hussein Onn - RM550 per sq ft

The Astaka Johor Baru - Tallest Condo in Malaysia and Singapore - well nothing less than RM2 million for smallest unit of 2,199 sq ft.

The Chimes @ Bandar Rimbayu landed terrace sell better than selling vege. From RM580k for 22x75 ft.

Rawang will be launching its first high-rise which is a high-end condominium project.

This post has been edited by accetera: Mar 15 2013, 01:44 AM
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AVFAN
post Mar 15 2013, 05:22 AM


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QUOTE(joeblows @ Mar 15 2013, 12:31 AM)
Gives breakdown of average monthly household income by race and urban/rural across the years 1970-2009. Broken further down between top 20%, middle 40% and lowest 40%.

Not a very encouraging set of statistics actually for the up up up camp.

The urban middle 40% earnings are average of 4.3k per month in 2009, that's household income btw.

The average growth rate is about 8% for every two years so one can expect the average household income stands just under RM5k per month for the middle class.

They surely can't afford properties above the RM500k bound.
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the data is consistent with what has been available. anyway u cut it, it says the same thing - mysians aren't rich. ok, one can always argue lotsa sgd coming in, oilngas pays very high, some grads earning 10k after 3 years, etc - these are a very small minority.

the top 20% avg urban gross household income of 11,348k in 2009 - extrapolate to 2013, it's 13,273, looks reasonable. that gross income level isn't good enough to own more than 1 prop >500k. chances are only the top 3-5% earning >25k can. that also mean today's props are certainly getting priced out of reach for most. the only way is to incur more debt which everyone knows is true.

at an income increase rate of 4% p.a. for the last 30-40 years, it's painful for the urbanites. official inflation of 1-2% is pure bs, actual inflation in urban areas must be >7% p.a. in the last few years. props aside, this negative real income growth is making its pinch felt, squeezing out the middle class. yes, some shopping malls are still crowded, but that's not the case for all of them. and if u look closer, the spending even at festive seasons is nowhere near what it was before or in other cities.

at the rate wages and inflation are increasing, current props are surely becoming out of reach for the vast majority. either prices will adjust or the % of popn owning props will shrink fast. either way, it does not bode well. a vibrant economy can't be achieved with a shrinking middle class plagued with prolonged negative real wages and ballooning debt. in fact, that's a recipe for disaster.

This post has been edited by AVFAN: Mar 15 2013, 05:46 AM
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tikaram
post Mar 15 2013, 08:09 AM


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QUOTE(A.B.D. @ Mar 15 2013, 01:41 AM)
the top 20% in malaysia earn gross 12K/month per household on average..

this suggests most upper income couples can only borrow 500-600k in loans?? if using 50% of disposable income to pay loans...
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boss i think not correct la.

pendapatan kasar bulanan isi rumah PURATA

chinese 12k is consist of

1)many chines household earning 5k, 6k ,7k

2) and few thousand of very rich guy like onwer of ytl , hl bank onwer timber taiko , sp setia owner....earning 20million to 100 million one year

1+2 / 2 = 12K

so this report useful? 20% top chinese 12K ?

how much?? can the 5k, 6k so call 20% high income chinese can buy? i think only can buy 350K property la.

only those few thousand earning million can buy the 20,000 units property that cost more than 350k... tongue.gif

This post has been edited by tikaram: Mar 15 2013, 08:39 AM
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klbull
post Mar 15 2013, 09:45 AM


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I would'nt try to read too much into statistical averages. Use them as rough indicative numbers. You ever heard of the saying, lies and damned statistics? So many things can go wrong when collecting data from people and even more when interpreting such data. Income is only one factor limiting affordability.For example, incomes tend to be understated, capital gains are not included, nor are inherited wealth/parental gifts. How many can buy a multi RM million home as his first property? But a person can for his second/third home if he has large capital gains from his previous properties. Trading up homes is a time honored practice.
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JustNobody
post Mar 15 2013, 11:10 AM


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QUOTE(accetera @ Mar 15 2013, 01:39 AM)
Bayberry @ Kota Damansara - RM1,150 per sq ft

D'Latour @ Bandar Sunway - RM850 per sq ft

Lido @ Jalan Cheras (see cemetery) - RM580 per sq ft

VINA @ Bandar Tun Hussein Onn - RM550 per sq ft

The Astaka Johor Baru - Tallest Condo in Malaysia and Singapore - well nothing less than RM2 million for smallest unit of 2,199 sq ft.

The Chimes @ Bandar Rimbayu landed terrace sell better than selling vege. From RM580k for 22x75 ft.

Rawang will be launching its first high-rise which is a high-end condominium project.
*
cry.gif

But like it or not, one thing I noticed is new development will continue to go up in price psf... I think all of you will agree with this special statistic...
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InF.anime
post Mar 15 2013, 11:19 AM


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Can we start vers. 10 ?
with a more positive tittle

This post has been edited by InF.anime: Mar 15 2013, 11:20 AM
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