QUOTE(Jedi @ Feb 20 2013, 05:24 PM)
While I agree believers of Christ Jesus have every single chance of salvation, I do not agree with this not needing to receive Eucharist to receive Eternal Life. I hope bro unknown warrior can see my point of view ..which Ill back up with Scriptures.
Protestants believe when Jesus said Luke 22:19 'do this in remembrance of me'
It is a symbol.
Jewishly (Historical Account)
There is no record in any of the gospels concerning the Last Supper of anyone present eating a regular Passover Lamb; rather they ate a consecrated piece of motzah bread that Jesus said was His Body, and we all know that Jesus is the spotless Lamb of God. And always remember, the Jews had to physically eat the Passover Lamb to complete the Passover meal, not a symbol of a Passover Lamb.
If the Eucharist is really only a "symbol," then Jesus and His followers didn't really understand anything about the Passover Meal, and that is very hard for any Christian to fathom. Some people say that when Jesus said "This IS My Body," that he was speaking metaphorically, like when He said "I am the Door," or "I am the Vine."
Now think, in the cases of the door and vine analogies, no one said "How can this man become a wooden door or a climbing plant. BUT, in John 6:52, His disciples did say, "How can this man give us His flesh to eat?" In other words, His followers understood Him EXACTLY to be speaking literally, not figuratively, in regards to the Eucharist.
He even let them leave Him over this "hard saying," and did not go to them and explain to them that he was speaking symbolically, like he did with other parables that he had to explain (like the parable of the sower and the seed).
Really think, did He [Jesus] say, six times, “eat my flesh,” in order to offer a vague misunderstood parable, without offering a concise and accurate teaching? Now, what was His response to the Jews who asked, "How can this man give us His flesh to eat?"
Remember, Jesus [God] cannot lie or deceive....
He took an OATH and SWORE [Amen Amen] that we must eat His flesh, and even added that we must drink His blood to have life in us. He also stated that if we do not do so, we have no life in us. There is nothing even remotely resembling a parable here. He corrected their mumbling, and even allowed those that could not accept this teaching to leave Him, never to follow Him again (cf. John 6:66), as “many drew back and no longer walked with him.”
1 Corinthians 10: 16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a communion of the body of Christ?
Symbolic? Or Real Presence?
Jesus said at the Last Supper, “This IS my body” (Matthew 26:26), not “This represents my body.”
Paul says that if you eat the Eucharist without discerning THE BODY (1 Corinthians 11:29-30), then you eat it to your own condemnation, and could get sick and die. Yes, like u said, not taking it seriously.
Jesus Himself says His Flesh is real food and His blood is real drink (John 6:55).
Just like the Adam physically ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and died (Genesis 3:3-17), just so, we are to physically eat Jesus’ (the new Adam, 1 Corinthians 15:45) flesh (John 6:51-56) from His tree (the Cross, Acts 5:30) and live forever.
When Jesus says that “the flesh is useless” (John 6:63), He is not referring to His flesh (John 6:51: 54: 55: 56), but rather our human flesh in general. Otherwise, it would mean that Jesus’ flesh is useless, which would negate everything He just said in the entire chapter of John 6.
'As much as you dont see oxygen, The Real Presence of Jesus is hidden in the Eucharist EXACTLY like the divinity of Jesus was hidden in His manhood.'
Nobody who looked at Jesus could tell he was God by looking at him (except during the Transfiguration), and the Eucharist on every altar of every Catholic/othodox/lutheran and anglican Church is just like that. You can't tell by looking at a consecrated host or the Precious Blood that it is truly Jesus, but, IT IS!
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Early Christians and Transubstantiation
Here’s an interesting fact.
One charge the pagan Romans lodged against the Christians was cannibalism.
Why? You guessed it.
They heard that this sect regularly met to eat and drink human blood.
Did the early Christians say: “wait a minute, it’s only a symbol!”? Not at all.
When trying to explain the Eucharist to the Roman Emperor around 155AD, St. Justin did not mince his words: “For we do not receive these things as common bread or common drink; but as Jesus Christ our Savior being incarnate by God’s word took flesh and blood for our salvation, so also we have been taught that the food consecrated by the word of prayer which comes from him . . . is the flesh and blood of that incarnate Jesus.”
Not many Christians questioned the real presence of Christ’s body and blood in the Eucharist till the Middle Ages, until a guy called Zwingli - claimed to be inspired by Holy Spirit, questions the Real Presence of Body and Blood. In fact, Luther argued vehemently with him, insisting that that is the real body and blood of Christ, after the incantation through Persona Cristi in the Mass.
In trying to explain how bread and wine are changed into the body and blood of Christ, several theologians went astray and needed to be corrected by Church authority. Then St. Thomas Aquinas came along and offered an explanation that became classic. In all change that we observe in this life, he teaches, appearances change, but deep down, the essence of a thing stays the same. Example: if, in a fit of mid-life crisis, I traded my mini-van for a Ferrari, abandoned my wife and 5 kids to be beach bum, got tanned, bleached my hair blonde, spiked it, buffed up at the gym, and took a trip to the plastic surgeon, I’d look a lot different on the surface. But for all my trouble, deep down I’d still substantially be the same old guy as when I started.
St. Thomas said the Eucharist is the one instance of change we encounter in this world that is exactly the opposite. The appearances of bread and wine stay the same, but the very essence or substance of these realities, which can’t be viewed by a microscope, is totally transformed. What was once bread and wine are now Christ’s body and blood.
A handy word was coined to describe this unique change. Transformation of the “sub-stance”, what “stands-under” the surface, came to be called “transubstantiation.”
What makes this happen? The power of God’s Spirit and Word. After praying for the Spirit to come (epiklesis), the priest, who stands in the place of Christ, repeats the words of the God-man: “This is my Body, This is my Blood.” Sounds to me like Genesis 1: the mighty wind (read “Spirit”) whips over the surface of the water and God’s Word resounds. “Let there be light” and there was light. It is no harder to believe in the Eucharist than to believe in Creation.But why did Jesus arrange for this transformation of bread and wine? Because he intended another kind of transformation. The bread and wine are transformed into the Body and Blood of Christ which are, in turn, meant to transform us. Ever hear the phrase: “you are what you eat?” The Lord desires us to be transformed from a motley crew of imperfect individuals into the Body of Christ, come to full stature.
adapted from Marcelino D'Ambrosio, Theologian Professor (Catholic of course)
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Hi Bro Jedi,
Yes When Jesus says to eat his flesh and drink his blood, it is symbolic. It cannot be taken literal.
See, we all can agree there are no contradictions in the Bible.
Every book passages of scripture correspond to each other.
That is why in
Romans 11:6, it says
And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.
This is a very clear distinction where it correspond to Galatians 3:11, Romans 3:2, Romans 1:17, Galatians 2:16, Galatians 3:8, Romans 4:5 and Romans 4:11.
Because if you impose salvation is conditional and partial to our work then it contradicts the word of God.
When you quote
(John 6:53-55), “Jesus said to them, ‘Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.’”
Yes it points to the Holy Communion. But you should look it from the base understanding that Salvation is merited from Faith not works.
Eating Jesus Flesh as Food and Drinking his blood as drinks correspond to the basis of Faith. It is not on the partaking of the physical bread and of the wine that give us Salvation. Here is the reason why.
This scripture portion is the
real meaning of what Jesus wanted to say that correspond to the Holy Communion.
John 6:35
Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go
hungry, and he who believes in me will never be
thirsty.
See the connection in that passage?
Hungry = bread = Come to Jesus (Faith)
Thirsty = Wine = Believe in Jesus (Faith)
All these correspond to Salvation by Faith.
You RCC missed it here.
Again I must emphasize the Holy Communion passage in 1 Corinthians 11:29-30 as many people do not get it.
In 1 Corinthians 11:29-30, when the Bible says you partake in an unworthy manner, you Sin against the Lord's Sacrifice at the cross. NOT sin against your own body. As such it means you take lightly of God's great sacrifice for you. It is not per say, if you don't eat the bread and the wine, you lose salvation. Paul meant that we are to take the Holy Communion as a remembrance of What Jesus has done not eat the bread and wine as a meal time. ( 1 Corinthians 11:22). BY partaking it as a meal time, In a sense we disrespect what Jesus has done.
When the apostle Paul mention on weak, sick and sleep, It's a metaphor to denote there are members of Christ who are weak in the inner man, there are Christians who are already in detrimental health condition and after partaking Holy Communion is not healed, NOT because you don't partake the Holy Communion, you become sick, and there are Christians who are asleep spiritually.
The Lord's death and resurrection is meant to set us free from all those condition. As Jesus said. I am the bread of Life, whoever comes to me will never go hungry. The more you feed on Jesus (His Word and Quiet Time), the more you will grow Spiritually. The Lord's finished on the cross is meant to set you free from all kind of infirmities (1 Peter 2:24),
by Partaking the Holy Communion we can be healed. And every time we look to God, Look to his word (remembrance - 1 Corinthians 11:25, 1 John 4:17 & 2 Corinthians 3:18) reminding ourselves to focus on God, we are transform into the same image as God.
2 Corinthians 3:18
But we all, with open face
beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
We can never be asleep when we keep Jesus as the centre of our Life and the way to do this is to focus on Him everyday in remembrance of what He has done at the cross.
I also pray that you can see this. Because it really takes Faith to believe. If by partaking Holy Communion, helps in sealing or guaranteeing our salvation, we don't really need Faith. Faith can be made void here.
And there is no such thing as Works + Grace = Salvation. Romans 11:6 disproves it.
God Bless.
This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Feb 21 2013, 01:00 AM 
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Feb 20 2013, 06:45 PM
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