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Jaben Malaysia v4, The Most Complete M'sia Headphone Store

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blacklizard90	Jan 31 2013, 06:08 AM Return to original view \| Post #1
On my way Senior Member 657 posts Joined: Jun 2009 From: KL, Ampang, Desa Pandan	So last month I bought this cable from Jaben Subang, cost me RM80(see resit) Yesterday went to jalan pasar and saw the 3.5mm jack used in the cable, which cost RM3 per piece(see resit). Let say RM3 for the sleeving and heat shrink, RM10 for workmanship, RM10 untung for jaben, RM10 untung for pcwork so RM80 - RM3 - RM10 - RM10 - RM10 - RM6(the jack will be cheaper if take in bulk) = so does the cable really cost RM41 ? So i get a cheepo cable which is RM2.40 per meter to create my own cable(see pic below), and surprisingly the cheepo cable can produce the same quality audio and the RM80 cable and plus the cheepo cable produce more crispy vocal So am i being cheated by jaben? I have no idea. If anyone want to test the cable, I live in cyber, if anyone live in cyber and want to test the cable, feel free to pm me. I rest my case This post has been edited by blacklizard90: Jan 31 2013, 06:13 AM
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blacklizard90	Jan 31 2013, 01:55 PM Return to original view \| Post #2
On my way Senior Member 657 posts Joined: Jun 2009 From: KL, Ampang, Desa Pandan	QUOTE(beggarmaster2000 @ Jan 31 2013, 01:38 PM) Jaben did not cheat u, they made it to your convinience instead of travel to buy stuf urslef and made by someone experienced with good finishing. expected reply.. You can get 10M high density sleeve for RM29, the sleeve used in the cable is some cheepo sleeve simple math: Sleeve for each cable is roughly 10cm so 1000cm/10cm = 100 pieces you can sleeve roughly 97 cable and the cost for sleeve each cable is RM0.30 Jaben did not make the cable, its made by pcwork, jaben only selling it Sleeving and soldering is not rocket science.. I'll just wait for the appropriate person to reply before proceeding to nccc EDIT: QUOTE Hak untuk mendapatkan maklumat Pengguna mesti diberi maklumat yang mencukupi dan tepat untuk memudahkannya membuat keputusan yang bijak. Pengguna hendaklah dilindungi juga daripada dakyah pengiklanan, pelabelan dan amalan lain yang palsu, penipuan dan penyelewengan. The guy who sold me the cable just say its a DIY cable when i ask what is the brand of cable This post has been edited by blacklizard90: Jan 31 2013, 02:00 PM
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blacklizard90	Jan 31 2013, 05:46 PM Return to original view \| Post #3
On my way Senior Member 657 posts Joined: Jun 2009 From: KL, Ampang, Desa Pandan	Even with one roll of solder wire can used to solder up to 1000 jacks.. just tell what brand is the cable, then can know what is the actually price of the cable
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blacklizard90	Feb 1 2013, 01:56 AM Return to original view \| Post #4
On my way Senior Member 657 posts Joined: Jun 2009 From: KL, Ampang, Desa Pandan	QUOTE(SpringBiscuit @ Jan 31 2013, 07:27 PM) Hi, Good day to you my friend. At first i was pretty confused in this issue as well, however be frank with you, in audio world equipments such as cable and amplifier, if we split up everything from cost to cost calculation for the material they used, they won't worth the price you paid. Have you experienced a hifi speaker cable worth RM50k? While the material worth nothing that expensive, they sell you in term of sound, not material or the construction. QUOTE(Alex05187 @ Jan 31 2013, 09:38 PM) maybe you should think like this bro~ jaben made it readily for customer to buy and take~ you save the time and hassle to seek for the material~ plus~ the cost you calculated din include the cost of admin? salary of the salesman to work for them? they must make profit to make sure all cost are fully covered so that they wont go bankrupt right? just my opnion~ So you guys are trying to imply that the external cost does affect the sound quality produced by the cable? Interesting Charging customer to avoid bankrupt is a crime QUOTE(JoshCarter @ Jan 31 2013, 11:16 PM) I bought one of the cable from jaben and i like it, after all i no need to buy all those soldering tools which those are cost also. Considering all admin cost of jaben, electricity, worker salary, rental of a shop in subang all these don’t come cheap, and of course warranty of product provided by pcwork, i don’t think the price is as over as you describe. After all i was given freedom to test and the price were told before i decided to buy. No one force me to buy it at all. so what’s all the grump? Perhaps you should try to seek of option so that you can DIY it before u purchase anything related to audio then. It will be always cheaper if u can DIY. If you can come out with a very cheap cable as you said RM 40 and willing to provide a full year of warranty, i think a lot forumers will glad to buy your cable from you. And after around a year, something went wrong, will you be able to provide proper service to get it fixed? After all, comparing a product which were marketed with a single cable which you DIY is not really fair by just calculating the cost of the material alone. Thanks. QUOTE(SpringBiscuit @ Jan 31 2013, 07:27 PM) The cable was from PCwork audio according to Jaben last visit, personally i met him before, he was an audio enthusiast who did tons of audio sound modification and cable tuning as well. Here are some of his profile you can refer, locally i mean http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...7&hl=symphonica http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...9&hl=symphonica http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=1496508&hl= Why does Proton still produce crappy car even thought they have been in the industry for quite some time and the pricing is shit.. QUOTE(SpringBiscuit @ Jan 31 2013, 07:27 PM) All of the works above are done by him alone, of course if you stay in the scene long enough, you will know he started his audio journey way back. Personally i'm using his product currently, no complains about the sound and build quality, as i did comparison with ALOaudio before. For cable manufacture, just the basic knowledge of E&E and soldering are nothing, you need years of experience with high end sound, experienced with tons of set up for reference, and of course you need good pair of ears. No worries mate, Jaben won't con you any sort on that, your money worth the sound, build quality and after sales service from PCwork audio and Jaben themselves I'm not complaining about the sound quality, I just merely pointing out that the cable I did can produce the same sound as the RM80 cable, that interest me weather the cable used in the one sold by jaben is really a good quality cable and worth RM80 And i think i have a good pair of ear to appreciate music and can tell the difference, hope I make my self clear. QUOTE(JoshCarter @ Jan 31 2013, 11:16 PM) I bought one of the cable from jaben and i like it, after all i no need to buy all those soldering tools which those are cost also. Considering all admin cost of jaben, electricity, worker salary, rental of a shop in subang all these don’t come cheap, and of course warranty of product provided by pcwork, i don’t think the price is as over as you describe. After all i was given freedom to test and the price were told before i decided to buy. No one force me to buy it at all. so what’s all the grump? Perhaps you should try to seek of option so that you can DIY it before u purchase anything related to audio then. It will be always cheaper if u can DIY. I was poisoned by jaben reputation and I thought all the stuff they sell is good quality( which I have doubt now). Well, i tried to ask the guy in jaben what cable is used to make that, he just say its a diy cable, I asked to ask him few times, he still say DIY cable. I bought it because it sounds better then normal cheepo read made cable, it not my fault that I don't be in the scene long enough QUOTE(JoshCarter @ Jan 31 2013, 11:16 PM) If you can come out with a very cheap cable as you said RM 40 and willing to provide a full year of warranty, i think a lot forumers will glad to buy your cable from you. And after around a year, something went wrong, will you be able to provide proper service to get it fixed? After all, comparing a product which were marketed with a single cable which you DIY is not really fair by just calculating the cost of the material alone. Thanks. LOL, I didn't say anything about the cable I did is RM40, please read what I wrote carefully. If you think its not fair, feel free to come to my place to test, I bet you wont hear any difference. Basically I can charge my customer who want to create a web application with me? Like it was said in one of the reply above? pcwork have done lot of cable and bla bla, well i have more than 7 years of experience creating web app, I've done project for Petronas and few other big player and also for celebrity, if that's the case even a simple web app, I can charge around RM100K, but I can't, that not ethically correct.. One more thing, pcwork just merely buy the already engineered cable, he is not engineering the cable itself. Example on my side of work: 1) Create blog with wordpress 2) Coding a custom cms for blogging cost for this two thing is totally difference, same goes here. The cable manufacture will be clearly state in datasheet what the cable they produce is capable. Just stating the obvious here, no rocket science, what really bothers me here is that most of the peeps here is assuming coming up with a audio connector cable is a rocket science at least penmarker understand the real purpose of my rant. ps: there maybe typo error in my reply, too lazy to check This post has been edited by blacklizard90: Feb 1 2013, 01:58 AM
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blacklizard90	Feb 1 2013, 02:31 AM Return to original view \| Post #5
On my way Senior Member 657 posts Joined: Jun 2009 From: KL, Ampang, Desa Pandan	QUOTE(RisingTide @ Feb 1 2013, 02:16 AM) Not so fast my friend.. First of all, we're all adults here right? And since its a forum we're all entitled to our own opinions without quick to draw arms at each other; And bro I respect you for voicing out your opinion towards the assumed "total cost" of PcWork's cable, but bro before you conclude, heres my opinion. Apparently your case did not include one VITAL factor, and that is RESEARCH. You see, you have been comparing the price of each make-up piece of the cable, and other assumed "untung" figures, but clearly you have not taken into account the time, resources (like materials) and funding's needed to Create that one single connector with a Specific Sound. SpringBiscuit made a good statement that what we all are paying eventually is the value of the sound, how much its worth. And to produce it, PcWork and his team requires a lot of time and funding's needed for their research, and REMEMBER, its not JUST for ONE cable, they are creating Multiple cables for that caters for different setups. In the end what you get isn't just the Sound, you'd get the awesome friendly aftersale service and warranty from Jaben too. What Jaben and PcWork done there is that they gave us an option to further improve our current setups (for those of us who have no experience in cable making or modding). I have known friends who creates cables and mods headphones themselves. I have friends who have friends who make cables and mod headphones, heck I even own a KSC75 touched by PcWork and believe me, what he did to it was amazing and I couldn't imagine all the efforts he put into turning it into audio nirvana, I can vouch for him, his craftsmanship is Legandary. Expected this kind of reply, refer to my above post
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blacklizard90	Feb 2 2013, 07:36 AM Return to original view \| Post #6
On my way Senior Member 657 posts Joined: Jun 2009 From: KL, Ampang, Desa Pandan	QUOTE(RisingTide @ Feb 1 2013, 02:16 AM) Not so fast my friend.. First of all, we're all adults here right? And since its a forum we're all entitled to our own opinions without quick to draw arms at each other; And bro I respect you for voicing out your opinion towards the assumed "total cost" of PcWork's cable, but bro before you conclude, heres my opinion. Apparently your case did not include one VITAL factor, and that is RESEARCH. You see, you have been comparing the price of each make-up piece of the cable, and other assumed "untung" figures, but clearly you have not taken into account the time, resources (like materials) and funding's needed to Create that one single connector with a Specific Sound. Why everyone is so hooked up the word research? Its already done by the cable manufacture.. QUOTE(RisingTide @ Feb 1 2013, 02:16 AM) SpringBiscuit made a good statement that what we all are paying eventually is the value of the sound, how much its worth. And to produce it, PcWork and his team requires a lot of time and funding's needed for their research, and REMEMBER, its not JUST for ONE cable, they are creating Multiple cables for that caters for different setups. If I may say, you don't seem to know anything about doing business QUOTE(RisingTide @ Feb 1 2013, 02:40 AM) incoming parther.. and i believe my previous comment has just made your case clear. and PS, your previous post did not Mentioned anything about the things I've stated in my previous post, I shall quote your previous comment "cost for this two thing is totally difference, same goes here. The cable manufacture will be clearly state in datasheet what the cable they produce is capable." Your implying that the total cost of a cable is merely by the cost of each makeup material alone, hence there is NO need to refer to your previous post. Read again my friend. QUOTE(RisingTide @ Feb 1 2013, 02:40 AM) You also did not mentioned the material make-up of your "cheepo cable", and I dont see how does the material of your "cheepo cable" could justify the materials used in PcWork's cable. Its just normal copper cable used for audio. Heck, even the seller in Jaben don't know what cable it is.. LOL, if I know what is the cable used in the "RM80" cable, there is no need for all this, I think Jaben should be more responsible to what what are they really selling. QUOTE(RisingTide @ Feb 1 2013, 02:40 AM) And finally, you claimed that your cheepo cable produces and i quote "cheepo cable can produce the same quality audio and the RM80 cable and plus the cheepo cable produce more crispy vocal", again, your perceived hearing is highly subjective to everyone else's hearing and I believe that statement is clearly Invalid. I think i have a good hearing and I have enough listening experience to differentiate between SQ. QUOTE(RisingTide @ Feb 1 2013, 02:40 AM) What you did there by just merely creating a direct copy of PcWork's cable by sourcing parts which you "assumed to believe" are identical, granted they looked identical, but obviously you have not invested the time and efforts into creating one yourself but instead copied directly from him. Its like you re-creating a recipe from Jamie Oliver's recipe book and claims he overcharges them at his restaurant while you clearly failed to take into account that Jamie's time, efforts and also you failed understand the fact that Jamie Oliver himself came up with his recipe. Are you kidding me? is there any difference(see picture)? or do you want to say I have sight problem? Too bad he din patent his work. I cant do anything about it QUOTE(RisingTide @ Feb 1 2013, 02:40 AM) Again, please come up with a suitable rebuttal statement with clear backed-up facts before posting them and FYI, i quote "Expected this kind of reply, refer to my above post" is never a smart way of replying but in fact shows your lack in factual statements and utterly.. being Lazy. I think i have showed enough to back up my statement, and for my "Expected this kind of reply", is because some of the peeps here illustrated in the pic below and they are the who will reply.. I've seen that QUOTE(RisingTide @ Feb 1 2013, 02:44 AM) Bro, again I respect your opinion, but somehow I find that your opinions are plainly biased and are back by assumptions rather than facts. Because there is no info what is that "RM80" is made of, so i assume its a cheap cable since the cable that I bought for RM2.40 per meter(see recipt) can produce better quality sound, if you don't believe, you can come over to my place and test for yourself QUOTE(RisingTide @ Feb 1 2013, 02:44 AM) First of all, creating a cable And coming up with the pricing Are Equally Rocket Science. Yes you heard me right. Is your choice to believe its a rocket science or not, but if its really a rocket science, then why dont we see rocket goes up to sky everyday like cable comes up to market? QUOTE(RisingTide @ Feb 1 2013, 02:44 AM) I'm sure a guy with 7years of experience in Creating Web App would understand. I'm gonna touch this subject lightly as I do not want to deviate from our main topic. Putting a price tag involves more towards the Business side of things (which is another kind of rocket science) as a pricing of a object must strike a balance between, Cost, Profit, Perceived Value and Actual Value. Period. If you need to know more, you need to dwell into the Psychology side of things like Psychology analysis on the General public through surveys and research. Second, please do not bring up sensitive and non-related issues like our car maker Proton. I believe since you're 7years of experience suggest that you're matured and old enough to realise the true intention and background story of our beloved car-maker Proton, (their car build quality is HIGHLY subjective) hence I shall not reiterate again. Again, Proton has NOTHING to do with PcWork's cable. QUOTE(RisingTide @ Feb 1 2013, 02:44 AM) Thirdly, you claimed you have 7years experience in creating Web App now and by working with big companies you are entitled to charge RM100K? But its not ethically correct? In that case, how much would you charge someone for using/buying your Idea? This is a highly subjective topic as it touches things I've mentioned in my FIRST POINT. And if you ASSUMED that creating an audio connector cable is NOT rocket science, but then I don't see a lot of people venturing into this business, since you've stated the COST for making one is CHEAP. First of all, you cant buy or sell idea. I can't do anything if not a lot people venturing into this business, I don't have any right over them what they want to do. QUOTE(RisingTide @ Feb 1 2013, 02:44 AM) If I may apply to your case, I can ASSUME that Creating a Web App is easy job, but then again WHY would you sell them to companies at high prices (since you say its ethically incorrect), again, ETHICS are a highly Subjective Topic. I too have tonnes of experience in creating web app myself, so please, if what/everything we do is easy, the world would be a better place to live in. Would you even consider selling me the same/slightly modified but equally sophisticated version of the ones you sold to Petronas at a considerably lower price perhaps? Can't you see the relation here? QUOTE(RisingTide @ Feb 1 2013, 02:44 AM) Fourth, one thing I DO NOT AGREE with is that you blandly accused of PcWork using reengineered cable? What fact does this accusation based upon? Have you personally met him and record his cable making progress? Again, highly subjective and I do recommend you retract that statement. Butthurt? Its super obvious the cable is engineered by the cable manufacture, he just use the cable to create a interconnect cable. QUOTE(RisingTide @ Feb 1 2013, 02:44 AM) Fifth, please post/reply opinions based upon hard facts but not your gut feeling, and of course, a professional (I assume) like you would re-check their grammars and spelling before posting something, Lazy is never a reason to slack off in quality. Then go read my post, there is fact from my side, there is no fact that the cable cost that much to create . This post has been edited by blacklizard90: Feb 2 2013, 07:46 AM Attached thumbnail(s)
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blacklizard90	Feb 2 2013, 07:41 AM Return to original view \| Post #7
On my way Senior Member 657 posts Joined: Jun 2009 From: KL, Ampang, Desa Pandan	QUOTE(Junk992 @ Feb 1 2013, 11:19 PM) You are very interesting. By using your way of counting, Coffee bean cost RM2, Filter water cost you RM0.1, Boiling the water cost you RM0.1, total up is RM2.2. Then why you go Starbuck and buy their RM15 coffe? So Starbuck is cheating you?!! slice of lemon cost RM0.5, Filter water cost you RM0.1, ice cost you RM0.1, tea bag cost RM0.5. Total up is RM1.2. Then why you go oldtown and get their RM5 Ice lemon tea? So Oldtown is cheating you? On the road side curry laksa selling RM3, in Paparich they selling the exactly same thing for RM10. So paparich is cheating you? filter water cost RM0.1, kopitiam charge you RM0.5 per cup, so Kopitiam is cheating you? 1 t-shirt the material cost RM10, H&M selling RM80, so H&M is cheating you? building up a house cost RM100k, the developer charge you 2million, so the developer is cheating you? I suggest you should go to do everything DIY, make the car urself so won't get cheated by car manufacturer, go to kopitiam and bring your own water and food, so won't get cheated by kopitiam, go to starbuck and bring your DIY coffee so won't get cheated by starbuck, walk to work so won't get cheated by rapidKL or KTM; make your cloth urself so you won't get cheated by the cloth manufacturer, lastly, build the house yourself so you won't get cheated by the developer. This is how an idiot talks, at lest I have prove the justify the price, what do you have?
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blacklizard90	Feb 2 2013, 07:29 PM Return to original view \| Post #8
On my way Senior Member 657 posts Joined: Jun 2009 From: KL, Ampang, Desa Pandan	QUOTE(FirstDuke @ Feb 2 2013, 02:51 PM) I'm not sure why you start this debate here (are you looking for rebate or refund, if yes save it and go to sleep) Firstly you got so much time to do research and give evidence to support your statements. But you don't have the time to do simple comparison (even aunties know how to compare price between supermarkets). Please la, do your research before you purchase not after. By accuse Jaben cheat you, how they cheat you? Do they change their price when different customer walk in like pasar malam?? They told you the price and you test it and the item you purchase is in good condition, so how they cheat you, you pay it willingly anyway. Sound quality is very subjective by people, I myself not very like picaso painting, but some people willing to pay few million for his painting because they think is worth it. If you do comparison properly and test the cable in jalan pasar before you purchase before you chose to buy the cable from Jaben then this debate should not even exist. RM80 for a cable is expensive for normal cable, this is a common sense because almost everyone know normal cable is not cost that price, by buying expensive stuff you should do more comparison. So by failing to make a proper comparison before you purchase is your own mistake bear with it, we sometimes do regret on some decision we made after purchase expensive things and noted there is cheaper alternative. please dun say people cheat you. And 1 more, saying others idiot is a very rude words, please behave yourself. You seriously need to refer to all my previous post.. I don't regret buying this cable, its does gives better SQ if compared to the ready made cheap cable. The thing is the RM2.40 cable provide better SQ. All i can say is either Jaben or pcwork is over charging.. It seem like this so called "audiophile" cables is the best way to make money these days.. below some comparison pic. Anyway, I will be proceeding to NCCC around next week. Too bad i don't have multimeter with me right now to test the resistance of both cable. The cable used , nothing extraordinary about the cable, looks like a normal cable, dont have any kind of info on the cable, normally good quality cable have info on the cable itself. Only the RM0.50/per meter cable wont have any info on the cable AFAIK Side by side between the "RM80" cable and RM2.40/m cable. Aluminium shielding nothing extraordinary about the soldering Cheap sleeve used in the making of "RM80" cable, can see through the sleeve Re-sleeved with good quality sleeve, bought from topazzatech --> http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=2527046 This post has been edited by blacklizard90: Feb 2 2013, 07:45 PM
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