Good one like Alvin tan goes to nus singpose

On the Beat
By Wong Chun Wai
http://thestar.com.my/columnists/story.asp...0&sec=onthebeat
Tan seems to be your average boy next door. He is polite, plays the piano really well (his repertoire includes classical numbers) and is a gymnast.
His body is well-toned with a six-pack to show off, as those who have seen his pictures on the Net would know.

He speaks impeccable English and talks in measured tones, very controlled and yet very open.
He would put many of our politicians to shame when it comes to fielding questions from the media, really.

He is after all a graduate from the prestigious Raffles Institution in Singapore, an Asean scholar, and is reading law at the National University of Singapore.
He is obviously a very smart guy. I try to think that the smartest and cleverest ones have a certain streak of eccentricity in them.

As a young lawyer, I approve of this message. 90% of local grads are absolutely shit

touche. like i said 1/100 is a good student. and 1/10 of that good student MIGHT be a good lawyer.

so they sux because they are young
what about old graduate ppl

btw they all started as young lawyer too,they could be sux when they young

but they stayed on and worked on it until they became good. not like the new young lawyers, crappy but want higher pay or else they leave

a junior partner, u can earn 10k.

Steven Thiru being politically correct. What he meant to say is that the primary factor resulting in the problem of shit young lawyers = local grads. That is to say, there are shit foreign grads too, but that's like blaming one person's cigarette smoke for causing global warming. Local grads are the cow-fart equivalent. 

You see la UITM la, UKM la, even the so called Le Magisteria UM, macam taik kucing the grads I tell you.

Don't blame the senior lawyers. Blame the system for allowing shit students to study law in the first place.

how many years you need to work your ass off to get the title of partner. there's equity partner also wei
not everyone is Gopal Sri Ram ma. hahahha. still say blame students. really monyet.

So sed. And I wanted to take law as my 2nd Bachelors

You're not talking about complex analysis of the law dei. The senior lawyers are complaining about the basics: English, critical thinking, analysis.

Local grads, ini Semua mostly kosong.

I don't expect your English to be Raja Azlan Shah's standard, but I mean kamon la, speling and grammar can correctness or not?

A lot of good foreign grad students fail the clp, sounds like another protectionism law

No reason to lick your ass, but for what it's worth, I think you have what it takes.

Serious question (not being snarky). The field is saturated, the pay is low, the workload is heavy - why do people want to be lawyers?

Serious question (not being snarky). The field is saturated, the pay is low, the workload is heavy - why do people want to be lawyers?

i'm being quite frank with you. if i get into an interview and they ask me why should they hire me. i wouldn't be hesitant to say: cause i got what it takes and i beat 80% of the other candidates to be here.
the entry into legal frat is so damn restrictive. it might be just behind if not on par with actuarist.

btw 012, which firm you recommend i chamber in?

lecturer say conveyance are for women worrr. im looking at M&A(yes i know its f***ing dry), or IP loh.

PM me. Come join my firm.

where one?

As a young lawyer, I approve of this message. 90% of local grads are absolutely shit

i'm being quite frank with you. if i get into an interview and they ask me why should they hire me. i wouldn't be hesitant to say: cause i got what it takes and i beat 80% of the other candidates to be here.
the entry into legal frat is so damn restrictive. it might be just behind if not on par with actuarist.

btw 012, which firm you recommend i chamber in?

Gen X: Gen Y sucks in everything.

I'd say "I once got into a punch up with a kangaroo, and won." If the cunts don't hire me, I don't know who will

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Added on October 21, 2012, 3:55 pm

Gen Y here saying : Gen X might be right.

I'd say "I once got into a punch up with a kangaroo, and won." If the cunts don't hire me, I don't know who will

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Added on October 21, 2012, 3:55 pm

Gen Y here saying : Gen X might be right.

macam whoring myself to the company like that really T___T

My whoring line was better "Mate, I don't really know much about coal seam gas and coal mining, but if you gave me 2 lumps of coal to bash together and wanted energy out of it, I'd damn well try"

And yes, I actually used it.

so does Malaysia Judges, quality also very low, especially the one called Nurchaya Arshad

Y u so butthurt towards dis judge la

No such thing. Good and bad people exist in all generations.

hahahahahaha. that is one good line wei. im sure you made an impression hahahaha.

2 indonesian killed robber, and got jailed

this punk is really hilarious.
Foreign graduates: come back and attend CLP which all in theory and no practical exams whatsoever. Who's fault is it? LPQB. They are the one that sets the standard of examination. Why put the blame on us?

Local graduates: Churns out thousands of rubbish that doesn't go through the retarded CLP exams and straight into the working sector, no QC for them because they have apparently studied local law so the assumption is that they are good at it. Turns out maybe 1/100 is a good student. and every 1/10 good student might be a good lawyer.

Your in the law field? Clp is hard to pass because they've got quota to hit. Not really transparent. Personally i feel the bar is set too high. Good academicians does not necessarily mean they are good lawyers. Ppl with 3rd class should be able to practice as well.

Lol...... I tot In uk no second class upper , can say bye?

That's UK, don't la compare broheim.

Problem with the industry is that lawyers are charging too low. Competing by way of predatory pricing. That's why lawyers cut on quality.

Keep the profession expensive. It's meant to be that way.

Serious question (not being snarky). The field is saturated, the pay is low, the workload is heavy - why do people want to be lawyers?

the truth is firm partners want have more for themselves, one way to do that is keep junior lawyers and other staffs salaries low

Even if this guy is right and the quality of the graduates are low, this guy doesn't seem to be doing anything to improve the situation. He complains that the universities do not include skill learning, but their own CLP exam is just 100% exam based. They assume the ability to answer questions on a paper equates to representing a client in a court room. If he feels that local graduates are of low quality, modify the CLP first and then suggest that local grads take the CLP as well.

As for the salary issue, I do not know which world this guy is living in. When he started out as a young lawyer, he might have worked hard. But his salary was enough to survive in that economic climate. RM 2000 in KL in today's economic reality? That is chicken feed. You can't expect employees to work their ass off and also better themselves when you do not offer them any incentive to do so. Sounds like a classic case of employers not wanting to offer employee proportional increase in salary to the inflation rate.

He complains about low quality grads, but he still hired them didn't he? Why not increase their salary but make them attend workshops or offer them better guidance on how to improve their skills?

Lol...... I tot In uk no second class upper , can say bye?

Of course. But proportionally I feel that Gen Y-ers are more rubbish just due to the culture we grew up in.

Why?
1) Entitlement complex >9000
2) All puteri lilin one, suka duk opis
3) They somehow think that they're all at the top of their game
4) They never remember their fundamentals
5) Jual mahal

The thing is... are the laws in Malaysia top notch in the first place? When a national bowler is freed even after raping an underage girl, what does it tell about our law?

Country law low class, law student also low class la.

lawyers see the judiciary low class, they also become low class and lose faith la.

these 2 days i won't be free. tied up abit after that I gib u PM.
*prays to god it's wong and partners* lololol

tot rahmatlim pays better than wong & partners nowadays?

it depends one la. best starting pay as chambee i saw is RM 3.1k

Then y that guy wanna lower standard? If what he said is right uk would hv followed ma.

Anyway llb um can enter llm Cambridge , means standard not so bad right...
But that was gen y era... 

 

this punk is really hilarious.
Foreign graduates: come back and attend CLP which all in theory and no practical exams whatsoever. Who's fault is it? LPQB. They are the one that sets the standard of examination. Why put the blame on us?

Local graduates: Churns out thousands of rubbish that doesn't go through the retarded CLP exams and straight into the working sector, no QC for them because they have apparently studied local law so the assumption is that they are good at it. Turns out maybe 1/100 is a good student. and every 1/10 good student might be a good lawyer.

fun fact: oxbridge student also can fail CLP one. dont play play.

So they ain't god la? I for ppl say they're head and shoulders above the rest, clp must be their first year exam standard... 

walao... news complain fresh grad lawyers salary 2k, you guys sokong.

But if news say fresh grad <insert different courses here> salary 2k, you guys complain, say 2k is enough for them, dont be picky.

such unfairness.

standard loh, everybody hates lawyer.

Thiru and other senior lawyers however, said young lawyers did not deserve the raise.

If they meet their KPI or watsoever why not deny the raise?

this.
IMHO the profession should be kept expensive, like someone said so.

And CLP be kept the standard it is, barristers are supposed to be the people's champion, if every tom's d*** can qualify, then where is the expected quality? 

Macam your local U lah..

Sounds like the complaint of every employer in every field nowadays so can offer low salaries to freshies.

have to disagree. it is not about expensive VS cheap. education should never be expensive imho.

as for your point on standard. CLP is only one battle. the profession has many filters, chambering & retention will be the 3rd & 4th filter. however, it doesnt stop some not too bright heros who believe that opening up a law firm straight after chambering is the most brilliant thing to do.

btw, I heard they are going to compel pro bono work for all lawyers regardless of age and you need to hit like 3 or 4 pro bono cases a year if you want to renew your practicing license.

WE refer to the article “Lawyers not up to par” (Sunday Star, Oct 21) regarding the Bar Council’s National Young Lawyers Committee (“NYLC”) Working Conditions Forum held at the Bar Council on Oct 20.

The same article appeared in the online version of The Star titled: “Young ones do not meet benchmark set by employers, says Bar”.

Paragraph 1: “All young Malaysian lawyers do not meet the standard international quality benchmark set by their employers, according to a Bar Council survey.”

This sweeping and untrue statement was not made by any of the speakers at the forum. Paragraph 1 is also not borne out by the Bar Council’s Employability Survey and is therefore a grave distortion of it.

While the Bar Council intends for the proposed Common Bar Course to be benchmarked against international standards (to ensure that lawyers entering the profession will have the requisite quality), it is certainly not our position that all our young lawyers are below par.

The article has made an unfair generalisation that is a stain on the many good young lawyers of the Malaysian Bar.

Paragraph 3: “It found that young lawyers practising for less than seven years do not have basic attributes like English proficiency, communication and critical thinking skills ...”

This paragraph misquotes what was said. In his presentation, the Malaysian Bar treasurer Steven Thiru emphasised that the survey targeted a sampling of “new entrants to the legal profession”, and he explained that this group consisted of law graduates, pupils in chambers, and lawyers in their first year of practice.

The survey therefore did not cover “young lawyers practising for less than seven years”.

The treasurer’s statement on the decline in quality was in respect of the results from the sampling of the new entrants to the legal profession covered by the survey, and was not directed at all “young lawyers practising for less than seven years”.

The confusion could have been due to NYLC being a committee that focuses on the welfare of, and issues affecting, lawyers of seven years’ standing and below.

However, even NYLC’s survey on working conditions was directed at first-year lawyers and not “young lawyers practising for less than seven years”.

It is also not the position of the Bar Council that all young lawyers practising for less than seven years lack the basic attributes and skills.

Paragraph 14: “Thiru and other senior lawyers, however, said young lawyers did not deserve the raise.”

This paragraph also misquotes what was said, as Wong Fook Meng and Thiru repeatedly stressed at the forum that employers (who are able to give the raise) would be willing to do so for young lawyers of quality, as it would be in the employers’ interest to do so, to retain talent.

It was also not the position of any of the speakers that a first-year lawyer, notwithstanding quality, did not deserve a raise in salary.

In all, it was emphasised the recommendations contained in the NYLC’s survey are to serve as a non-binding guide for employer-law firms.

The report also failed to highlight the call by NYLC chairperson Richard Wee Thiam Seng that young lawyers must equip themselves with better knowledge of the law and constantly improve standards.

At the same time, he also said that employers ought not to exploit young lawyers by offering sub-standard salaries.

The article gave the impression that all young lawyers are incapable, and that NYLC’s recommendations for better remuneration are baseless.

This was not the position taken by any of the speakers at the forum.

On the contrary, it was the common view that the forum was the first step towards reform in the working conditions of young lawyers, in tandem with the drive to push young lawyers to improve themselves.

RAJEN DEVARAJ
Chief Executive Officer
Bar Council

Yeah. That would get a real overwhelming support by the lawyers at the next AGM...

actually it might not be a bad thing if firms recognise the pro bono work done. i know some firms take pro bono work into account when deciding bonus.