Hi all. Am interested in taking up degree for Quantitative Finance. Can i know more about the career prospects in Malaysia? Would like to work in Malaysia haha. Need some help in planning my study pathway. Btw i would like to be a fund manager hehe Thanks in Advance!!

This post has been edited by lamcc: Oct 6 2012, 05:33 PM

QF involve heavy math, programming, and finance. You will need it for hedge fund, trading for big investment bank, etc., which btw, is not "happening" in Msia right now. If you are looking at Asia region, you have better chance to get QF jobs in HK, Singapore, Tokyo, Sydney. Who knows by the time you graduate, the "Tun Razak" financial centre will attract someone to set up shop in Msia. In Msia, the most QF that I know is some simple warrant / call warrnat in investment bank, and some jobs to check and validate others' models. Not very exciting huh ?
To be a fund manager in Msia, get a good business degree (major in acccounting, finance, etc) and then CFA. Heck, even ACCA + CFA will do.

This post has been edited by nexus2238: Oct 6 2012, 09:41 PM

Risk management is big thing even for Malaysia corporates such as all the banks. A good QF degree from a great school will attract plenty of job offersin KL.

Ohh i see. Thanks yea. How about a degree im financial mathematics? Was looking at both of these courses but i'm not very sure about the diff in terms of career prospects and syllabus. I'm planning to take up CFA tho. Just thinking about which degree will be able to prepare me for a better job in the financial sector in the future.

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Added on October 6, 2012, 10:14 pmCan u tell me more about the career prospects? Work in banks or investment company as? Thanks alot yea.

This post has been edited by lamcc: Oct 6 2012, 10:14 PM

There is not much differences in Quantitative Finance vs Financial Mathematics vs Financial Engineering, if you just look at the title. My suggestion is to get the course syallabus and compare the subjects that you need to study.
Even for courses with the same title, different business school may has different emphasis with respect to math, programming, finance.
CFA will make getting job in fund management so much easier.
Financial sector is very wide, with jobs in front, middle, back offices, sales / marketing ....
What is your characters? To be happy in your career, choosing a jobs that suit your personality is very important.
For a first degree, as I said, a good business degree (accounting / finance) open the most doors.
If you want to be quant later on, then do a Master in QF or Financial Eng. There are a few good courses in Singapore.
In my opinion, unless your first quant degree is from some top notch school, it's just not worth it. You miss out on basic accounting, law, marketing in the general business degree, which make you more well-rounded.

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Added on October 6, 2012, 10:59 pmThe trick is "good QF degree" from "a great school"
If you want to get to basic risk management job, a GOOD general business degree will do. To move up, get FRM. This way you keep your options open.

This post has been edited by nexus2238: Oct 6 2012, 10:59 PM

Let's hope so... lots of Malaysians studying this sort of subjects right now.

You're right. For Quants a graduate/MSc degree in Quant Finance/Financial Eng/Comp Finance will be the least one needs. Maths, Engineering, Physics, Stats PhDs are not uncommon. For undergrad an Accounting/Finance degree is less specialised, so more "flexible" we could say. However no one gets to do a graduate Quant Finance degree unless they've done a lot of Maths in undergrad or they are some sort of Maths genius.

That's what I keep saying to young friends who want to get into financial sectors. It's a wide wide world
From your basic Consumer / Commercial banking, Investment banking (corp fin, treasury, equity / debt ... ), transaction banking, fund management (plain vanilla, hedge, private equity, venture cap ... ), commodities, real estate ...
For a person who just getting a 1st degree, it's too early to decide what is your cup of tea Do something that let you able to taste any chances that come your way later.
To specialise, get a professional qualifiaction or a Master to pad up your CV.

An old friend of mine from a chinese independent school used to represent the school in all those math competition. Did a business degree. Years later, did a MSc FE to become a quant. Math, even after so many years, is piece of cake

This post has been edited by nexus2238: Oct 6 2012, 11:51 PM

All true. Not everyone is like your friend though. It is highly specialised, but if anyone seriously considers a quant career then they need to choose their undergrad subjects quite carefully. Finance degree will not do. Even a Quant Finance degree may not do because you may only do a couple semesters of Maths plus a couple semesters of Mathematical Finance, then a bunch of Stats. That's how many undergrad degrees are. In the US it's even broader despite the longer duration making the concentration in Maths even less.

I see. Now at least I know more about the field. Thanks to your help. Haha. How about a finance degree? Just pure finance, without business. Basicly what you're trying to say is that a degree in quant finance or financial math is very specialised and future job prospects are very limited. Am i right? So it's actually better to take a more flexible degree as first degree rather than a specialised one, and shall decide what sort of field i want to specialise in the future. Do you mind telling me what are we going to learn in a finance degree?



This post has been edited by lamcc: Oct 7 2012, 01:17 AM

On a practical note, I generally found those with more "empirical" background make a much better quant .. engineering, applied physics ... come to mind.
My pet peeves with lots of undergrad business / finance program is that they are feeding the crappy MPT to those virgin minds as though it was the gospel


Err ... is there a "pure finance" degree nowadays? Sorry, I may be out of touch
I thought most undergrad degree are something like B. of Art/Sc/Bus/Comm with a major?
Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of jobs out there for good quant Problem is a basic degree in QF/FM/FE will NOT get you those GOOD jobs
Yes, get a GOOD 'flexible' (in your words) 1st degree. Make sure you get good grade, and read financial newspaper / periodicals.
Simple example. Say a job in Corp Fin:
Rule and regulation, terms and conditions in the deal (business law)
Analyse company, balance sheet, p/l, cash flow (accounting)
Instrument / solutions available, pricing, modeling (finance)
Marketing, road show (marketing)
Team / time management (organisation)
In short, there are reasons why all those "stupid" subjects are in a basic degree

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Added on October 7, 2012, 1:17 amAlready give you my opinion on the very 1st post
Planning is good, but don't plan too far ahead. One of the 1st thing you should learn in finance is the longer your projection time period, the more sceptical you should be of the result of the projection : Don't put too much weight into those 5 years plan
Get your 1st degree. Then CFA. If you want to be quicker, you can start CFA in your final year, but make sure you can handle the work load. Get job experience before going into Master.

This post has been edited by nexus2238: Oct 7 2012, 01:17 AM

I see. Thanks alot mate. Learnt alot today haha. Appreciate your help. Mind telling me what are you working as? Sounds very experienced. Just curious

Glad I could be of help. 15 years in finance, with 10 of those in fund management, last job C-level. Currently stay at home to spend more time with 3 very young kids. That's why I can waste time in forums

Wow so before getting involved in fund management, what did u work as? Needa know more about career pathway to get involved in fund management haha. Is the job tough? If you dont mind sharing your experience

Actually I got into fund management by "accident". Was in re-insurance and financial accounting before that.
So you want to be a "fund manager"? You do know that means managing and investing "other people's money" in most cases, until you can start up to manage your own money, like Warren Buffet huh
Tough? No, but there are lots of things to learn. But as in any profession, there are good fund manager and there are bad fund manager
The most important lessons that I learn in the first few years:
Make sure you know how to "protect" capital. 10% loss can be recovered by 11% gain. 50% loss, you are looking at 100% gain to get even.
If you make mistake, admit / adjust. Don't let your ego get in the way.
Make sure you have mental capacity to continue functioning after loss. A 10% loss of a 100mio fund is 10mio. At the beginning I could not sleep after the funds I manage suffered loss, thinking about all those aunties / uncles / kids with their education funds ....
You notice that none of the above is "technical" in nature

Ahhh i see...I need more infos about what can I do after my first degree. I'm currently looking at BBA Finance in Hong Kong University of Science and Technology. Any opinion on that? Or maybe a BBA in Econs & Finance / Accounting & Finance in Hong Kong Uni. Lets say after i completed my first degree, and I'm keen to get involved in fund management, what are the steps should I take? Which job and which aspect should i pursue? Does a fund manager work in an investment company? Such as Hwang DBS etc etc. Thanks for the help

I am not a subject expert on degree. Anyone else here can help?
From the perspective of an (ex) employer, both the uni above has quite good reputation, and I will get graduate with good grade to come in for interview.

Steps:
Internship during your degree studies in investment / asset / fund management firms. CFA. Your first job could be research analyst (buy or sell side), audit in big4 (but don't stay too long).

You does not seems to know much about fund management, may I ask why you are so keen on being a "fund manager"? Sound glamorous?
In a fund management firm, there are quite a few different roles:
Front office - here we have the "fund manager" who make investment decision, the "investment / research analyst" who do research and contribute investment ideas, "trader" who execute the trade with counterparties ...
Middle office - here we have "risk manager" who control and monitor the level of risk that fund manager get into, "compliance manager" who make sure the firm and investment comply with all the rule and regulations, investment mandates, service level agreement ...
Back office - or what is known as operations. Here we have "settlement" who settle the trades, "fund accountant" who value the investment, "registrar" who manage clients' details and reporting ...
Marketing / Sales - here we have "business development", "channel support", "client service", "event management" ...

If you want to work in Malaysia, check out the securities commission website, www.sc.com.my. It has lists of all the licensed investment management firms in Malaysia.

This post has been edited by nexus2238: Oct 8 2012, 08:56 AM

I don't feel that they teach theory from the purist, hypothetical, academic perspective. I feel like they emphasise a bit that there is the practitioners' point of view that theory doesn't agree with, although it is heavily used in practice sometimes. I do feel that while they teach Corp Finance theory, Black-Scholes, Binomial, Options, MPT, there is very little solid link to reality. They do point out that "in reality it's not likely to be like this, they add this and that" but even at 3rd year when it's meant to be "applied" it feels as if I've completed all these classes but they aren't going to propel me into a job (if I can get one) armed with any know-how. So I'm doing all this just to go in blind. Like, I know when you start work (I've worked in Finance "behind the scenes" for some time) there's so much to learn and you develop a new system for yourself/follow one while learning continuously for an extended period. But in this case I'm doing a full degree, taking difficult and high level electives, yet I feel as if I could've learnt so much more on my own or by working a couple months. There is a huge flaw in the school system and it is easy to admit the degree is all one really gets from the academic side of school (this doesn't apply to all schools, I didn't go to a top 10 uni in the world unfortunately, who knows if they're any better).


Interesting, you got into FM from reinsurance and financial accounting. Were you an accountant in the reinsurance business? When you went into FM did you have to start from the bottom?

Is it true that in FM people work not as many hours as IB analysts?

Ohh ok. Is CFA essential? How about a Masters Degree? Is it equivalent to CFA?

It's all about application / execution in real world. We deal with real data, whether historical or real time. And when we do that, we realise lots and lots of things "assumed in theory" simply does not work with real data, eg. I cannot ignore outliers, I need to get quick and dirty, and market sometimes make me feel stupid
I went to an Aussie U, who was/is considered a very practical business school with lots of collaboration with financial industry. When I compared notes with my friends from other U, I realised how practical / real world we were compared to others, and yet I still find myself a bit shock with I started work. That's almost 2 decades ago, I was hoping it will get better. But when I interviewed some of the young chaps now, I realised the disconnection between U and real world is as wide as ever
Maybe it's just finance / business, because what I heard from friends in engineering, for example, is much better.

No, I was in underwriting, don't like it, moved to financial accounting in commercial firm. Yup, I started from back office, doing settlement and fund accounting. Then research analyst with the same firm while doing CFA, then fund manager. A long journey.

I think in Malaysia, the back office is around 9 to 7/8/9, that kind of hour, consistent. Research is more hectic, hours during result season could be real bad. I remember my worst stretch was 5 hours sleep during 2 and 1/2 days. As fund manager, you tends to meet clients more, but strangely I have seen some who clock out 5pm sharp everyday (but not me )

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Added on October 9, 2012, 9:26 amIf you want to be a "fund manager" someday, yes, get the CFA. My personal view is it is more "recognised" than say MSc Finance from "lots" of business school.
You may find a MBA relevant, after 10 - 15 years as "fund manager", and want to move into boardroom / start your own firm ...


This post has been edited by nexus2238: Oct 9 2012, 09:26 AM

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Added on October 9, 2012, 9:26 am
If you want to be a "fund manager" someday, yes, get the CFA. My personal view is it is more "recognised" than say MSc Finance from "lots" of business school.
You may find a MBA relevant, after 10 - 15 years as "fund manager", and want to move into boardroom / start your own firm ...

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Ahhh i see. Thanks for the info. Wow apparently it took you only 5 years to be a fund manager. You must a some sort of genius or something hahaha.

Errr ... sorry, how did you get the 5 years?
1st degree on 95, spent 1 year in re-insurance, 3 years in financial accounting.
Started in FM back office on 99 for 1 year (started my CFA), then get transferred to research analyst for 2 years. Became fund manager on 02.
IQ test show I am top 1%, but that's nothing to shout about if you think about it And I have meet plenty of people I consider that is "more genius" than me
My view: "supreme intelligence", as we commonly understand it, is NOT the an important criteria of a good fund manager. As I said, the technical part of the job could be learned by "normal intelligent" people with application.
I would say the following is important (in no particular order):
Discipline, Confidence but have (lots of) Humility, ability to detect Falsehood (read body language, the mythical six sense by one of FM I know , intuition by another FM . And I know a FM who actually participated in one of those world poker championship ), Open-minded, Willingness and Ability to Learn (you are investing in all type of industries, and you need to know how those business work and make profit. Or you could become a specialist, eg in IT, biotech, alternative energy ... ), Read broadly, Not afraid to ask seemingly "stupid" questions, Sceptical, Nerve of steel (I trained very hard to get this ) .....

Hahaha having nerves of steel will be quite a challenge for me . But yeah, thanks for the help and guidance. Will work hard towards my goal

Good luck in pursuing your dreams But remember, the world is a funny place. When opportunities knock on your door, make sure you look and evaluate before you slam the door, even though it may not seem to be what you are looking for

I am currently conducting research on quantitative trading, nice to meet you. My wechat ID is :englianhu
https://github.com/englianhu/binary.com-interview-question