i think this is nothing.just like when the toyota wish with proton steering spotted. maybe this is a test mule.

those saying ugly, it's just a mule to deceive the public. Expect the end result to be different (as did Exora from the Wish mule)

Proton is not making an SUV. They only have 2 model incoming which is Preve hatchback and production model of EMAS.

The SUV is being developed by Youngman. Whether they'll rebadge that later on remains to be seen.

proton engineer? 

i saw so many nice ppl writing long essay supporting proton. i respect your effort.

but get one thing clear.

proton has no competitor. they only need to compete with themselves la.

[attachmentid=3080997]

Go and read the history of Toyota, Ford.  All got government protection. Also they started making cars so early that there was no one to compete in the first place-yet no one ever questioned that. Malaysia not even Malaya yet they started making cars. Toyota also got government bailout. Also they started so early that there is no competition. Even Kia/Hyundai started significantly early.

In order to talk about Proton you need to understand how the economy works.

What people see now Proton not good compared to other car makers. In that sense you are correct-compare apples with apples. However this is not the case. Something born in 1980s is not going to overtake others existed since before WWII if all developing on the same linear scale. Problem is the income placed into R&D of Proton vs Toyota/VW is not the same. Its like trying to say Everton is not as good MU but both play in EPL. Disposable income so different. People understand that Everton is not as successful as MU, but fail to see how apply that same formula to other areas. That is why in the long run, with the financial fair play comes in, clubs back by oil may not be so dominant now 

Lets say Proton was did not exists: car maker (not CKD assembling).
- No knowledge transfer to local population
- Where to relocate the workers working with Proton? Not only proton, but the support industry for proton.
- If you keep CKDing cars-profit goes to parent company. People are employed but that does not mean cars will be cheaper. Thailand got lots of CKD plants, but not everyone can afford a car. By circulating money in the country everyone wins. Economy grows when money is constantly in circulation. Got tons of money below pillow will not generate growth. Country economy grows when money is circulating in the country.

Mark my words, if the gomen (BN/PKR) lepas tangan in the automotive industry, I can see a future where people cannot afford a car. Or car loan 15 years+. Removing Proton from the equation does not make car prices cheaper. Yes, gomen can reduce the excise tax to lower the overall cost, but if you lower from one area, you need to increase in another area. PKR's lower car prices can work. But whoever in gomen needs to be very efficient in running the gomen to avoid waste. That is why you see Europe countries all going for efficiency. Malaysia-we got excess. Wastage everywhere. Efficiency savings will come and will hit people hard, though I see the current government too irresponsible for that increasing the debt level nearer to the legal threshold. If the debt reaches the threshold, the legal limit will be increased again and again. We have seen in done few years now-but not a lot of people notice. People only care dapat bonus tak belanjawan kali ini. Also whoever the gomen hutang still thinks the gomen can pay them. If all go to gomen same time demand gomen pay up-I don't think gomen can pay up. Same thing with US. Highest debt in the world-but world economy. It can rely on gold reserves and being war superpower-that is why it is still taking everyone for a ride with using everything to value against the US dollar.

Acquiring Lotus was the best thing ever. Now proton engineers can tune handling without needing to put "tuned by lotus" badge on the car. They are that good. If Proton decides to let Lotus go, I think they can do the handling themselves. In fact, short-medium and even long term, by selling Lotus Proton can be very profitable. Lotus is for the long term game. If I was ford now, I'd be cursing myself forever for selling Jaguar Land Rover cheap to TATA. Tata is reaping the benefits now. Ford foot most of the lost. Tata just 2 years.

Recently VW says it has no interest in Proton. They are lying and trying to devalue Proton stock. They may not want the Proton brand, but the removal assets are things they do want-Tanjung Malim is something they would like to own. VW said that way since they sakit hati few times already tried to buy but cannot buy. That's all.

No offence, I was like you until I someone told me the economic history-then after some reading changed my perception. I actually did challenge him, until he brought journal articles, economic articles, history books. He was not mentioning about Proton more about the economy in general. 8 hours well talking over few days.

I can see what Tun M was thinking. Give a man a fish-feed him for a day, teach him to fish you feed him forever. Only problem is that, I'm not sure if a lot of people can stomach that. 

This is why I am passionate/patriotic about local stuff. Proton is actually in the same boat in Petronas-both started from small beginnings. Petronas is already there. Proton not yet-but with each car Persona onwards they are responding to owners and not just make cars for the sake of making cars and say people will buy. Like one previous Proton CEO says that put Proton badge-people will buy
Back to the test mule car-I applaud Proton for using the Harrier. It shows that they are aware who the competition are and what they aspire to be. Like using the Wish for creating Exora. If proton used a BMW X5 or some complex SUV like Range Rover as test mule, I'd be very worried cause they are dreaming. Ambition there, but biting more than can chew.

The differentsimilar level of thinking between Proton [s]basher[/ fanbois] and someone who think they know the fact.

lol. asking ppl to pay expensive price for a car, and asking for ppl support? ppl offer cheaper price for national car, not make everything expensive.

look at the proton global car, can go head to head with civic and altis? when everything same price? if still cannot, then, 25 years is wasted.

pretty sure korean car and japanese car is very cheap in their own country.

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Added on October 3, 2012, 8:57 pm

yes you can.

you make sure they cannot afford to buy anything else.
you mean, ppl actually fancy a kancil??

to be fair, ppl are not hating proton, its the gomen policy and the way they execute it.

Like I said, you are comparing apples-apples. Kia started in the 60s. If you see the original Kia rio in 1990s over Proton Wira, People think Wira is superior. Wira is a mitsu rebadge so technically it does not count. Kia has the facilities all in place-even though they were not making desirable cars, they keep churning out cars good value for money. The Korean government did help along the way. Here is a summary:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_in..._in_South_Korea

Proton Preve in 29 years is very good actually. 29 years is very young for a car company. If you consider Waja as its own car. Proton started making cars since 2000. 12 years. All new car companies start by ripping other people off-nothing wrong with that. Apple copied everyone in the 90s'. Then only making their own products. That is why you see Pensonic/Panasonic. Asadi/Adidas. Imitate someone, resemble their products, sell it a lot cheaper is one method to market your products. Jap car makers did it in the 70-80's. China is doing that now with everyone else. I bet you next 10 years when China makes own cars Malaysians will buy. Now Malaysian cars are seen superior.

Like I said, it is a matter if you want to stomach it or not. Like it or not Proton is here. Previously the gomen can put 300% tax when Anwar was DPM. Now not really. That free trade deal is there. Cashbacks are given to Proton in terms of research grants to make the cars competitively priced. Also, if someone really hates Proton cars, they can buy a new non-accessorize car and because Malaysians have quite high car ownership, there are choices on the 2nd hand market.

I am also in the camp that if you need a 7 year loan to buy a car then you cannot afford a car. It is down to our weak purchasing power. Was I disappointed in Proton-yes, until DSZ came in. You can see change. Now not sure where Proton headed. I lived with Perdana (MT) for 7 years. That car even got mobile aquarium in the boot. back seats which can make your trousers wet if you sit on it-I know your pain.

It is actually hard to compare apples-apples in automotive industry. If it is the establish makes it is fine. They are already there. Merc-VW-BMW-Toyota-Ford-GM-Honda-Fiat-Renault-PSA. Each car maker has segment of the market. You know when you can compare makes with each other when BMW makes M3, merc comes out with AMG and Audi makes a RS. Honda-Toyota are fighting each other with some similar car line up.

In future, all car platforms will be the shared, parts too. Difference only exterior and interior finishing. Those car companies can now afford to share stuff because the are established.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19784691

these two guys are the most retarded animals in the world.

i dont care. i want cheap cars. i dont want to learn making cars. all i care is i want to drive bmw 30k RM. not a single sen more.

and also proton is about making cars. thats it. no technology thing. not about educating people. not about engineering expertise, new added values to own people. people want knowledge go read books. or utube. or sleep with martin winterkorn. heard he sleep talking. sure he can tell how to make cars when he sleeps.

all i want cheap cars.

acquisition of lotus was sick. does it make cars here cheap? no. so if anything done not doing car prices cheap, so it is no good. sick. since 2006 taxes go down but car no cheap. i must blame proton. dont care.

compete to altis are u crazy? this cannot compete with even horse cart. cart cheap no use petrol so sure better. what mahalel done? nothing. he never intended to design small engine or develop such technologies when he acquired mv agusta. so correct la sell for 1 dollar. eh was it 1 dollar? christ somebody bought it off for nearly 100 million years after that!

power window got 5 years warranty also no good. ya la. 5 years too short. must make like 100 years. eh wait. lifetime warranty? it got lifetime warranty? oh shite. wait. wait. must figure something to blame proton. wait. i got it. haa see, 100 years is better than lifetime.

the design is nothing like peter schreyer. or that guy design bmw what his name. forgot but proton, in any way u see it, dont look like 5 series. thats it. i am done.

must bash proton. everyday.

hey u how la fair like this.
make me sound like know nothing is it
haha

but seriously. i hope that is just a mule. it is hideous. SUV is a great vehicle segment proton seriously need to get involve in. of course it is late now everyone got their SUV sold here/asean. what happen with the JV they did with the chinese company and they got this low sloped exora tested few years back? that cud be a great new vehicle if proton decides to introduce a new vehicle.

i thought they got like this JV of which perhaps proton got this opportunity to sell those vehicles here. i mean not as that bad looking as that chinese low slope exora, but few mods here and there i bet that going to be proton version of caldina some sort. of course market size could be a problem but treat that as spin off deal. china is the main market and malaysia/asean should be the other main market. so small volume should do.  its win win what.

the other thing is, engine development. seriously they need to get like one new engine for every 5-10 years. that also considered not so good because everyone getting a new one for every 3-5 years.

and that city vehicle. whats going on with that. can they fit one small 1.0 or 1.3 litre engine in that? whats the delay? late Q3 or Q4 2013 atleast they should get that one out already. dont wait la for frazer nash. just get petrol version out first. EV/ hybrid can come later.

in my POV,

its not about starting earlier (Toyota/Hyundai/Ford) vs late starter (Proton)

Proton was created to rip off the rakyat themselves, producing junky transportation vehicles that was not created based on a nationalism mind.

Japanese are proud to be making those Toyota(s) and proud to be using them.
The same goes with the examples given like Hyundai with the Koreans, Ford...etc.

Now back to Potong...
Are they proud to be making a national car?
Potong Management: Our goal and objective is to juice out from the low/low-middle income rakyats as much $$$ as we can. Not to worry if we price our cars too high, the gomen will make the others increase their price so high that the majority population will never afford it!

Are we proud of the national car maker?
Do i even need to answer that?

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Added on October 5, 2012, 2:13 pm
if by that time nothing falls apart from this car 

business is not a business if you need someone to feed you from behind

The Japanese certainly aren't proud of the cars they produce for the ASEAN market, or would even drive them. Not the ones they sell to us (apart from grey imports).

Protons are surprisingly reasonably price considering the high taxes on Proton vehicles (same as Toyota etc. when produced in Thailand, Indonesia, ...). Same taxes, but much lower prices. How do they do it?