That is a test mule la. No one should panic. this is quite normal la. Final version will not look anything like that. Before exora was released, Proton had a Toyota Wish on some other test mule. I'm pretty sure that the interior and the same Exora/Preve platform is being tested if it works in a SUV configuration. This must be some Youngman/Lotus concept on the same platform.

Can read more below article about preve where it mentions the platform sharing bit.

www.motortrader.com.my/news/proton-preve-1-6/

There is no financial sense for Proton to do SUV. Well, before DSZ came in, Proton did all kinds of vehicles. Jack of all trades, master of none. It is a very small market compared to the sedans and the city car in Malaysia. EMAS IS the next proton model to come out from Proton-next year or next 2 years. Latest next two years. Delays into the second year by months only have to do with fitting launch schedule to PM's schedule If you look at Proton's annual report (can find at proton holding's website), EMAS was mentioned way earlier than Preve. I found this article after the preve came out, and so far this old article seems quite accurate in terms of its assessment.

http://www.hanzoautobuzz.com/2011/08/exclu...on-beyond-2011/

So in order to know what is coming out for Proton wait for the 2012 annual report, then find clues there My hunch, new model every two years with facelift model in between. Spread that 2 year cycle across all the range of own made cars lets say:
Exora,
Savvy
Preve
Saga
Satria*

Then looking at a 10-year cycle for new models. Which for Proton is quite reasonable/minium though I suspect as sales increase and technology becomes better the life cycle will become shorter to about 8 years. and FL's in between is quite good. The 5/6 year car cycle is still out of reach IMHO as volume is not there yet. Good news for Preve owners, the car should still be there in 2020 abit with a few FL's:lol:

* Satria's life cycle should be longer though as it is quite niche market. I don't see any problem with R3 division making a limited run of 500 units yearly and profiting on it while the normal Satria is sold throughout the year. I really do think there is a market for the R3 brand on any Proton cars. Limited 2000 cars per year with slight mods for each limited run means that that car will be unique. I don't see any problem with making the Preve as well, though I suspect that with the Preve R3 the limited yearly number should be higher than 500 units. Having extra 2 doors make it a more better car to live with daily. I may be the only one who thinks that there is a market for a RM85k Preve R3 6-Spd CFE turbo manual transmission-which can pawn the normal Inspira

Proton has its sights on Myvi. The good thing now is that Myvi launched first, Proton can take its time making a slightly bigger, better city car in all angles to the Myvi. Not like last time, when Savvy vs first Myvi. Proton was caught off guard. The good thing about Proton now is that it actually is learning from past mistakes. Previously, they just did all kinds of cars. Cars not that refine yet-but no longer obtrusive. They are listening to owner's feedback. Preve was supposed to launch in Australia last month (based on initial talk on distribution). October still not there. Exora CFE still not in Australia. Proton still trying to fix that turbo problem. So unfortunate/fortunate for Malaysians, we get the models first, but we are also guinea pigs.

I really think the Campro engine still has some shelf life in it. The CVT gearbox with the engine really helps. I also think that Proton should have 3 engines in future. 1.3l, 1.6l and 2.0l-Or if follow Proton's own future replacement Y series: 1.2l, 1.5l and 1.8l engines . Only problem, engine development is expansive so I don't really see any new engine coming in until at EARLIEST 2016. That is being optimistic. Realistic 2020 is a better date. Even then it is financially better for Proton to use other people's engine in their own car (while they figure out making the next gen engine) and let other car makers make all the latest engine first and they can source parts from other manufacturers like Bosch and GETRAG. Two multipurpose platforms should be enough to cover the entire range.


That is my two cents


On another note, whoever in Proton took those pictures and leak it should be really ashamed of themselves. Memang tak rasa malu dan bangga diri. No sense of pride in own work. If got integrity will not leak stuff online. Though this car has little impact. I really think that either the user does not know that foursquare is public or don't mind. I feel the same way with the leaked photos of Preve. I say this because, lets say proton makes a great car launching soon. By releasing all those photos you are telling your competitors how the next car will look like. Not only that, you take out the wow-factor people seeing the car for first time-so less media/potential owner coverage. I can understand you being exited releasing the photos for everyone to see-but remember without those leaked photos the car will come out. Everyone already knew how the preve look like way before the event at bukit jalil. Sometimes all the hard work the disguising the car just goes to waste. There is a reason why Apple/Samsung go to great lengths trying to protect the design of Iphone and SGS3.

I really do hope Proton employee can read that last paragraph. Maybe I care too much about Proton

Go and read the history of Toyota, Ford. All got government protection. Also they started making cars so early that there was no one to compete in the first place-yet no one ever questioned that. Malaysia not even Malaya yet they started making cars. Toyota also got government bailout. Also they started so early that there is no competition. Even Kia/Hyundai started significantly early.

In order to talk about Proton you need to understand how the economy works.

What people see now Proton not good compared to other car makers. In that sense you are correct-compare apples with apples. However this is not the case. Something born in 1980s is not going to overtake others existed since before WWII if all developing on the same linear scale. Problem is the income placed into R&D of Proton vs Toyota/VW is not the same. Its like trying to say Everton is not as good MU but both play in EPL. Disposable income so different. People understand that Everton is not as successful as MU, but fail to see how apply that same formula to other areas. That is why in the long run, with the financial fair play comes in, clubs back by oil may not be so dominant now

Lets say Proton was did not exists: car maker (not CKD assembling).
- No knowledge transfer to local population
- Where to relocate the workers working with Proton? Not only proton, but the support industry for proton.
- If you keep CKDing cars-profit goes to parent company. People are employed but that does not mean cars will be cheaper. Thailand got lots of CKD plants, but not everyone can afford a car. By circulating money in the country everyone wins. Economy grows when money is constantly in circulation. Got tons of money below pillow will not generate growth. Country economy grows when money is circulating in the country.

Mark my words, if the gomen (BN/PKR) lepas tangan in the automotive industry, I can see a future where people cannot afford a car. Or car loan 15 years+. Removing Proton from the equation does not make car prices cheaper. Yes, gomen can reduce the excise tax to lower the overall cost, but if you lower from one area, you need to increase in another area. PKR's lower car prices can work. But whoever in gomen needs to be very efficient in running the gomen to avoid waste. That is why you see Europe countries all going for efficiency. Malaysia-we got excess. Wastage everywhere. Efficiency savings will come and will hit people hard, though I see the current government too irresponsible for that increasing the debt level nearer to the legal threshold. If the debt reaches the threshold, the legal limit will be increased again and again. We have seen in done few years now-but not a lot of people notice. People only care dapat bonus tak belanjawan kali ini. Also whoever the gomen hutang still thinks the gomen can pay them. If all go to gomen same time demand gomen pay up-I don't think gomen can pay up. Same thing with US. Highest debt in the world-but world economy. It can rely on gold reserves and being war superpower-that is why it is still taking everyone for a ride with using everything to value against the US dollar.

Acquiring Lotus was the best thing ever. Now proton engineers can tune handling without needing to put "tuned by lotus" badge on the car. They are that good. If Proton decides to let Lotus go, I think they can do the handling themselves. In fact, short-medium and even long term, by selling Lotus Proton can be very profitable. Lotus is for the long term game. If I was ford now, I'd be cursing myself forever for selling Jaguar Land Rover cheap to TATA. Tata is reaping the benefits now. Ford foot most of the lost. Tata just 2 years.

Recently VW says it has no interest in Proton. They are lying and trying to devalue Proton stock. They may not want the Proton brand, but the removal assets are things they do want-Tanjung Malim is something they would like to own. VW said that way since they sakit hati few times already tried to buy but cannot buy. That's all.

No offence, I was like you until I someone told me the economic history-then after some reading changed my perception. I actually did challenge him, until he brought journal articles, economic articles, history books. He was not mentioning about Proton more about the economy in general. 8 hours well talking over few days.

I can see what Tun M was thinking. Give a man a fish-feed him for a day, teach him to fish you feed him forever. Only problem is that, I'm not sure if a lot of people can stomach that.

This is why I am passionate/patriotic about local stuff. Proton is actually in the same boat in Petronas-both started from small beginnings. Petronas is already there. Proton not yet-but with each car Persona onwards they are responding to owners and not just make cars for the sake of making cars and say people will buy. Like one previous Proton CEO says that put Proton badge-people will buy


Back to the test mule car-I applaud Proton for using the Harrier. It shows that they are aware who the competition are and what they aspire to be. Like using the Wish for creating Exora. If proton used a BMW X5 or some complex SUV like Range Rover as test mule, I'd be very worried cause they are dreaming. Ambition there, but biting more than can chew.

This post has been edited by mystvearn: Oct 3 2012, 05:11 PM

One of the reason old Proton (Gen2 and before) cannot learn from mistakes also has to do with top-down culture. When they kept making weird cars like Tiara (no offence to owners), internet penetration was low. So they just made cars no matter how bonkers it is. Juara ( thanks Dares) is actually a good car, only that our culture not into some box car. In terms of space-there is massive space.

Now people can get vocal, also those who work in Proton also use internet, they can read what the mood is. So even though you don't do some official letter complaining of problems, they are listening and trying to fix the problem. Going to COSE explaining directly the problem is even better. That is why you have launch delays in overseas market and launch delays of future models. If the car is already launched overseas, it means that the model is reliable enough without suffering backlash.

There are two kinds of car image leaking:
1. Control: Manufacturer want to judge market perception with car design.
2. Subversive: Employee or some paparazzi go take snapshot.

That harrier leakage could be considered both, though if I were in charge of HR-I would say no leak whatsoever-banned mobile phones at car testing area. Even though it will not look like final product. Intention of leaking this Harrier could mean that there could be a SUV in the future. Competitors can react. The proton employee weird car competition makes and auto shows are considered controlled leakage on design language. Also, futuristic concept cars are a method to make the media go wow. When people keep remembering your brand, they are more likely to buy it. That is why you see Ford group cars in James Bond movies. Go wiki product placement.

This post has been edited by mystvearn: Oct 3 2012, 07:19 PM

Aduh, my bad. Juara. Jaguh is the modenas motorbike. That shows you that I don't remember all those weird cars.

Weirdly weird cars like the jumbuck or that Frankenstein Wira works well in Australia. Does not work well in Malaysia.

This post has been edited by mystvearn: Oct 3 2012, 07:10 PM

Yes, the cars are rebadged cars but not taking market's perception.

You are correct if proton made cars there are a few. Maybe I should have changed the wording there.

You cannot make something if no one wants to buy.

Like I said, you are comparing apples-apples. Kia started in the 60s. If you see the original Kia rio in 1990s over Proton Wira, People think Wira is superior. Wira is a mitsu rebadge so technically it does not count. Kia has the facilities all in place-even though they were not making desirable cars, they keep churning out cars good value for money. The Korean government did help along the way. Here is a summary:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_in..._in_South_Korea

Proton Preve in 29 years is very good actually. 29 years is very young for a car company. If you consider Waja as its own car. Proton started making cars since 2000. 12 years. All new car companies start by ripping other people off-nothing wrong with that. Apple copied everyone in the 90s'. Then only making their own products. That is why you see Pensonic/Panasonic. Asadi/Adidas. Imitate someone, resemble their products, sell it a lot cheaper is one method to market your products. Jap car makers did it in the 70-80's. China is doing that now with everyone else. I bet you next 10 years when China makes own cars Malaysians will buy. Now Malaysian cars are seen superior.

Like I said, it is a matter if you want to stomach it or not. Like it or not Proton is here. Previously the gomen can put 300% tax when Anwar was DPM. Now not really. That free trade deal is there. Cashbacks are given to Proton in terms of research grants to make the cars competitively priced. Also, if someone really hates Proton cars, they can buy a new non-accessorize car and because Malaysians have quite high car ownership, there are choices on the 2nd hand market.

I am also in the camp that if you need a 7 year loan to buy a car then you cannot afford a car. It is down to our weak purchasing power. Was I disappointed in Proton-yes, until DSZ came in. You can see change. Now not sure where Proton headed. I lived with Perdana (MT) for 7 years. That car even got mobile aquarium in the boot. back seats which can make your trousers wet if you sit on it-I know your pain.

It is actually hard to compare apples-apples in automotive industry. If it is the establish makes it is fine. They are already there. Merc-VW-BMW-Toyota-Ford-GM-Honda-Fiat-Renault-PSA. Each car maker has segment of the market. You know when you can compare makes with each other when BMW makes M3, merc comes out with AMG and Audi makes a RS. Honda-Toyota are fighting each other with some similar car line up.

In future, all car platforms will be the shared, parts too. Difference only exterior and interior finishing. Those car companies can now afford to share stuff because the are established.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19784691

---

Added on October 3, 2012, 10:32 pmI'd rather see gomen helping Proton than otherwise. This policy was adopted by the Korean and Jap gomen. I don't want a future where Proton is neglected like AvtoVAZ. Started in 1960's still nowhere.

This post has been edited by mystvearn: Oct 3 2012, 10:32 PM

Thanks-noted