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 Coffee lover please come in

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Keng
post Dec 9 2014, 03:45 PM

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QUOTE(mel5582 @ Dec 6 2014, 05:46 PM)
I've looked up a video which might help you understand how to steam milk after removing the nozzle. It's a delonghi, but they should work the same way with the same technique applied.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhEBKf7tqZE
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Thanks for sharing, gonna give this a try. Been failing for like almost every time, probably I shouldn't keep switching with pannarelo and without, but now mostly without.

I'm using (Philips) Saeco Promia and in my third week now. Yet to depressurize the PF as I'm still waiting for my tamper to arrive. Grinder is Hario Slim, easy choice for low budget but I've ordered Welhome ZD-15 grinder, again, still waiting.

Back to topic, I've only successfully froth it once to the foam level that I wanted in out of say, 20 tries sweat.gif . The last attempt I tried was with really cold milk in order to buy myself more time. Anyhow I believe its just my lack of technique and precision, but I'm getting there, I hope.
Keng
post Dec 9 2014, 05:45 PM

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QUOTE(geney @ Dec 9 2014, 04:57 PM)
Need you to share more tips here  laugh.gif Me too have been trying to get good froth on Poemia. It's just refused to. Jin pek cek...  sweat.gif  Most of the time the milk gets really hot (smoking liao!!!  shocking.gif ) before seeing bubble (foam) leh... Got once I fill my 20oz pitcher half full (standard is 1/3 I heard) and still... ... Haiz. The milk I use is always cold. Straight from fridge. Few times I put to freezer before frothing too. Same  shocking.gif
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I'm not getting any success, so no tips to share, only what-not-to-do to share laugh.gif

I don't have issues surfing the surface, I can get good foam from that first step. Its when I proceeded to the next step by dipping the tip by about 1/2cm (or until sound gone) that problems started to haunt me. During this step, I'd be focusing on both the temp and maintaining the whirlpool (easier said than done) and most of the time, the temp caught up really fast and I just couldn't get the microfoam throughout the whole volume.

I suspect its either:
a. spent too long at first step to create foam;
b. not building whirlpool fast enough;
c. whirlpool not strong enough to polish the foam;
d. all of the above sweat.gif

For now, I'm using my hand only as heat sensor haha (waiting for thermometer to arrive together with tamper). Lets see if I can take a video with every bit of details like temp/type of milk/time etc and share it for the pros to comment.

This post has been edited by Keng: Dec 9 2014, 06:00 PM
Keng
post Dec 10 2014, 11:36 AM

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I made the PF go through a 'depression' last night and made my espresso in non PPF for the first time this morning. 1 word, failure. No crema at all, maybe at the side of the cup wall and that's about it.

I ground it on 3 clicks from max on my Hario Slim, press with what I think was 14kg force on it. Extraction came out fast like in 4s and filled up 60ml in like 17s.

As for the milk, this was my 2nd time putting the milk on freezer about 30mins before I froth it. The milk near the pitcher wall were frozen LOL. Anyway, I let it sit about a minute to defrost before I began to froth it. I got good and strong whirlpool but only small foam developed (not micro) like only 0.5cm thick at best.

Oh man, I'm sensing a rough road ahead.
Keng
post Dec 10 2014, 11:48 AM

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QUOTE(geney @ Dec 10 2014, 08:44 AM)
Wanted to get from TB but cannot wait leh... But locally (Singapore) even pitcher is damn ex sia... Normal normal jiu 40 plus Singkapor dollar liao. So ended up buying from forum. I know the seller bought from Amazon and markup quite a fair bit but OK lah. Cheaper than local market.

From TB even cheaper if you can wait. Think RM30 (before shipping) can get good 12oz ones.
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I bought my 12oz from this seller at Rm29.90+Rm6 shipping

http://www.lelong.com.my/stainless-steel-m...7-01-Sale-I.htm

My verdict for those who have short steam wand (especially with pannarelo taken off) is that you'll need to fill it close to more than 1/3 full. That's more than 6oz coz milk pitcher has wider bottom and hence even if its not 1/2 height full, its already more than 1/2 the volume

As for tamper, I got mine from aliexpress at USD13, thermometer USD4.80, all free shipping. I think I'll get a scale later.
Keng
post Dec 10 2014, 06:16 PM

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QUOTE(mel5582 @ Dec 10 2014, 04:29 PM)
I bought the same kind of pitcher at Robinson's quite some time ago.. costs RM60 for it dayum.. Anyway, here's a short video I did using it and how I steamed milk with it.. Sorry cuz that's the best angle I could place the camera at.. latte art fail LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkRNyOqIBjc
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Wow, thanks for sharing. Ok, I've got few questions:

1. What was the starting temp of the milk? And milk used?
2. I noticed you spent about 7s surfing and another 7s after submerging it about 1cm. At what temp when you decide to submerge it and what temp when you take it out? Is it the usual 38c and 60/70c?
3. Addition to item #2. During the first 7s and the last 7s, how much volume (height or %) did the milk increase?
3. You mentioned 6oz, is that the starting volume or the ending volume plus the microfoam?

I know I can't follow what you did blindly due to the difference in the milk and also the steaming power. Cheers!
Keng
post Dec 11 2014, 10:25 AM

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QUOTE(mel5582 @ Dec 10 2014, 07:52 PM)
For 6oz of milk (I use Farmhouse), the starting temperature is from refrigerated milk. I normally have 15 - 20 secs time frame to work till 65 degrees Celsius. I raised my pitcher after the milk has expanded about 1 - 1.5cm and continued texturing the milk up to temperature. So for smaller boiler machines, you will have more time to texture your milk.. Maybe around 30 seconds..

It really depends on the situation.. below is a video I recorded earlier which used only 2 seconds to aerate the milk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpZHV_IvXI8
Brewing is around 40 seconds tops if you're using 93 degrees Celsius hot water. That's for immersion time.
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Still failed this morning doh.gif

Gonna give it a shot again tomorrow rolleyes.gif
Keng
post Dec 11 2014, 12:21 PM

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QUOTE(mel5582 @ Dec 11 2014, 11:32 AM)
For WBC, the baristas bring their specially sourced beans.. They worked closely with the coffee roaster which suits the extraction they're meant for..
Don't worry, keep practicing.. You will get it.. Like I've suggested, use cold water and put 1 drop of dish detergent in the milk pitcher and steam it. At least you get the hang of it without wasting milk..
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I tried it with a pinch of used coffee ground to observe the current pattern laugh.gif

Need to work on the first phase of building that initial foam first rclxub.gif
Keng
post Dec 11 2014, 03:37 PM

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QUOTE(ijan @ Dec 11 2014, 03:11 PM)
Keng, you have the Poemia with the Panarello steam wand? Should be, so you should follow the Panarello instruction. These tip theoretically make steaming straightforward. If im not wrong, insert the tip till it reach the bottom of the pitcher and froth to your hearts desire. Krups various steam wand also work in the same manner. Thus Mel's technique not valid in your situation.

http://www.gaggia-usa.com/skills/steaming-frothing/nav/57
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Yes, exactly this type
user posted image

The thing is by the time the bubble reaches the breather hole (its located at the joining instead of at the middle of the plastic cylinder like the 1 you shared), the volume would've increased too much to my liking doh.gif

I'll have to knock dozens of time for the big bubble to burst laugh.gif
Keng
post Dec 12 2014, 10:12 AM

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Finally, after so many tries, I managed to make microfoam albeit the 0.5cm bigger foam at the top. icon_rolleyes.gif

Not easy at all and I spend quite a lot of time surfing it. However so, the whirlpool were very strong during that time. I think i'll need to make a small groove line before the steam tip coz sometime I lose track where it is laugh.gif
Keng
post Dec 12 2014, 06:03 PM

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QUOTE(mel5582 @ Dec 12 2014, 01:56 PM)
Jeng jeng jeng... A whole bag to try..
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Bangkok? GOnna pay it a visit as I'm going there for bean hunting end of the month hmm.gif
Keng
post Dec 14 2014, 02:07 PM

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QUOTE(skitZo` @ Dec 13 2014, 02:45 AM)
Hi Keng,

I have the Poemia too, replaced the Panarello with this Saeco Wand its also a pannarello wand but when you take out the outer part it will be a normal steam wand sort of extension of the 'short' steam wand when you remove the default pannarello. Pannarello wand is hard to maintain especially keeping the tiny hole unclogged.

Install this on your Poemia and start steaming your milk just before the steaming light comes out (usually around after 25-30 seconds after you flick the switch to "steam" ), that way you will have constant and powerful steam as the boiler heats up the water to produce steam. This is because once the steam light is ON the steam generated by the boiler is sometimes not powerful or sufficient to steam and create a strong whirlpool, that is why others on the internet recommend steaming your milk right before the steam light turns on. This way the boiler won't stop heating the water inside thus producing steam on a constant rate.
You can try steaming your milk by removing the default panarello wand and use the short tip of the steam wand but you have to have more milk in your pitcher because the steam wand is short. I recommend the steam wand above to extend the short steam wand.

Ciao.
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Haha, trying to make the best out of what I have at the moment first. Yeah, i saw that before too but I thought the small steam hole would restrict it before filling up the rest of the camber in the plastic. How big is the camber/shaft in that plastic?

My attempt this morning



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Keng
post Dec 15 2014, 10:19 AM

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QUOTE(mel5582 @ Dec 14 2014, 04:19 PM)
Keng Nice try! Still a little too frothy for a latte.. it's more like cappuccino.. If you can lessen the froth a little more, it'll add more definition to your latte art smile.gif
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Thx! I still find it tricky to know when to stop surfing. I just agakX2 by looking at the foam grouped near the wand.

This milk steaming subject is still very foreign to me, the 'paint texture' term that most used seem to misled that the texture should be throughout the whole volume. Is that even possible?

QUOTE(skitZo` @ Dec 15 2014, 12:18 AM)
keng,

Here are the measurements for the Saeco steam wand its around 7cm in length for the inside wand , and 8 cm for the wand with pannarello cover. Refer bottom pic for details.

Mel5582 , Neat trick about Saeco machines using the pressurized PF to do pre insfusion, will try it out tomorrow.

[attachmentid=4259349]
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Ah, thx! At the moment, I can steam just fine without pannarello on a 12oz when I'm steaming 6oz, any lesser than that I'll have to use a smaller glass & I don't have a milk pitcher for htat sweat.gif . I'll keep this steam wand you've mentioned in view. cheers.


QUOTE(geney @ Dec 15 2014, 08:39 AM)
Quite nice wor...

Me haven't reach that level yet despite playing with the machine for a while liao. Problem is I don't drink every day and the max is 1 cup per day.

The common drawback for this ppf I think is the fake crema. Seems always very bubbly. Then you do art also like not as nice.
By the way, Keng, do you find the coffee come out a bit runny/watery most of the time?
Taste wise I think still acceptable. Some of the cafe I visited also about this standard only but they charge you like close to $4 Singkapore lollar.
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I've depressurised the PF about a week now. Yeah, it does start to blond near 2oz/60ml mark, so it's time to stop it anyway. Now with manual PF, I can get really nice thick Guinness crema icon_rolleyes.gif . 1 problem though is that I can't prolong the extraction past 20s. I've set it at the finest setting on the Hario Slim, so the only thing I can alter is the tamp pressure. However, when I tamp too hard, the puck is very difficult to knock out. If I tamp normally at which I think was 15kg, it'll be done by 20s. Any suggestion?

This post has been edited by Keng: Dec 15 2014, 10:20 AM
Keng
post Dec 16 2014, 09:44 AM

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QUOTE(skitZo` @ Dec 15 2014, 10:27 AM)
Keng,

Try to increase the dose of the coffee. How many grams are you using right now?
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LOL, i've no idea. I'm still waiting for my scale to arrive sweat.gif . At the moment, I just fill it all the way up the basket and sweep it like they do on youtube rolleyes.gif . I know its not the right way but its the only way I have now laugh.gif
Keng
post Dec 16 2014, 09:46 AM

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QUOTE(mel5582 @ Dec 16 2014, 09:02 AM)
Yeah, machines without the 3 way solenoid valve, you only need to descale. You can descale once every 6 months for Malaysian water. Typically it's every 3 months preferred, but our water is clean. You buy those liquid or tablets, then dump into the water reservoir and fill the tank up. Let the machine run through the tank. Then fill with clean water and through that as well.

Like Gaggia Classic has a 3 way solenoid valve, you would have to backflush it. Backflushing prevents clog in the valve.. E61 is the group, that one can clean or replace the shower screen.

And today's morning kopi.. Pacamara house blend cheers.gif
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Yeah, was about to ask about how often you guys descale, no need to ask anymore smile.gif

Wow, sifu notworthy.gif
Keng
post Dec 17 2014, 10:00 AM

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QUOTE(skitZo` @ Dec 15 2014, 10:27 AM)
Keng,

Try to increase the dose of the coffee. How many grams are you using right now?
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You were right. I went to Daiso to buy this cheapo scale until my digital scale arrives. I tried 20gm (the scale has units of 20gm laugh.gif ) this morning and could get roughly 27s of extraction with the same tamp force, the taste was a bit on the bitter side though. I'll reset the grinder tomorrow and give it a try again.
Keng
post Dec 22 2014, 08:08 PM

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Just got my electric grinder. It's so much easier to make espresso in the morning ....... Or so I thought. Basket clogged on first shot despite checking the usual coarseness by rubbing them with my fingers.

Wasted blardy 20gm there. Then second shot was too coarse. Oh man, these things are never easy eh


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Keng
post Dec 23 2014, 09:54 AM

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QUOTE(geney @ Dec 22 2014, 11:08 PM)
Poemia in red very chio sia  thumbup.gif

Maybe try with cheap coffee first. Bon Cafe ones rather cheap.
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Yeah, TBM was doing roadshow and I got the salesman to check all their outlets for this color cool2.gif . Yeah, I tried with Ikea beans LOLOL, but all I could get out of that experiment is the coarseness, so difficult to get crema out of them mad.gif

QUOTE(Kclee2002 @ Dec 23 2014, 09:07 AM)
Antipodean has some offer for their roasted beans now, 25myr for 250grams, free 1cup coffee(french press,dine-in only) of your selected choice
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I love their coffee! I tried their espresso blend to 'hoi pau/bukak bungkus' my poemia. Couldn't get anywhere near what they put on the cup though hahaha.
Keng
post Dec 26 2014, 05:43 PM

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I find it difficult to get good froth when I'm making for 1 cup, its easier to get (close to) good froth when I'm making for 2. Is it the same for anyone else?

Oh, just received my food/milk thermometer. Its not perfect. I get partial reading only as only partial of the probe is in the milk. I tried with boiling water and I get reading up to 60c when 1/3 of the probe is in the water. When more than 1/2 is in the water, I get 70c, so on & so forth.

Oh man, I think its better to use thermocouple from my car project for more accurate reading.
Keng
post Dec 28 2014, 10:26 AM

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No matter how fine I grind or how hard I tamped, I still couldn't prolong the extraction to over 25s, I can't even make it past 17s for god's sake.

Turns out the shim under the burr was too thin and all I had to do was added a ticket shim. Voila!


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Keng
post Jan 4 2015, 10:31 PM

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QUOTE(patryn33 @ Jan 4 2015, 09:42 PM)
Your mod got u there?
If not u should consider the ROK
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Yup, taste great now. And now I have to work on the steaming huhuhuh

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