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 Basic Intake and Exhaust Modification Guide, for normal aspirated cars v1.0

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low yat 82
post Jul 28 2006, 10:50 AM

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QUOTE
The newer Proton Saga/Iswara has very good example on bad muffler setup. The exhaust tends to get noisy and noisy after awhile because of low quality fiber inside the muffler. Besides, normal cars should not have noisy exhaust, it is lame. They are even louder than my Tanabe even when my car is in VTEC mode!




so any suggesdtion on how to solve this prob? i meean any suggestion on which muffler i shud get?

btw, its really daman anoyin... its a loud hummin noise when its jus in idle!!!
low yat 82
post Jul 31 2006, 03:13 PM

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QUOTE(thom_chai @ Jul 29 2006, 07:05 PM)
Best way is to replace the muffler to those older saga/iswara oem muffler.
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d orri older muffler is... doh.gif

any other suggestion?
low yat 82
post Oct 3 2011, 08:56 AM

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QUOTE( r u g a @ Oct 1 2011, 03:37 PM)
just went back from supercircuit to enquire about the system setup and the custom made rear muffler.

he(tommy, i guess is the guy u mention, w/ glasses) commented that the setup is abit too much backpressure from the 3" diameter 22" bullet, and the piping size of 1.6" is already big, stock is 1.5"
(when he says alot backpressure does it also means low noise? i guess not.) he's friendly enough to give suggestion and offer me to take in my car for further measurement and talks.

he says if pair this together with the custom small in/out 1.6" big body rear muffler probably will ruin the whole air fuel ratio and gain high fuel consumption. and mention if wanted to properly tune the mid powerband, solely from this setup wont work unless with emanage to retune the afr to match it.

also if wanted to fit the 22" bullet, the position would not allow since theres where the shifter is located.

they have ready made 2.5" diameter 26" bullet.
i'm starting to think, is the setup we are trying to do is something weird here in our local modification field. instead he suggest using 2, 1.6" about 6 - 9" length straight bullet and have a rear straight flow muffler which i think this is the usual setup that everyone will get.
btw, the custom rear muffler pricing i get, seems to be abit high, what do you think if its at 5+80.
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IMHO, 1.5" is enough provided u did not rev too high.. 1.6" will suffer abit low end hp, but when u enterin high rev, mayb 5k above, d extra burning will hav move space to come out from exhaust..

d setup intro upontheriversky is weird in malaysia as oldies exhaust tuner still thinkin inside d box..lol..

QUOTE(upontheriversky @ Oct 1 2011, 09:00 PM)
Supercircuit in sunway, can ask for more steel wool than fibreglass so longer lasting for high heat application. can custom to ur specific dimension. price differs from car to car. I did mine there, paid deposit, waited 3 days for it and now very satisfied biggrin.gif
oh how so?..every car manual usually states the cam timing degree, its ok, whats ur engine? i try look for the exhaust open BBDC for u. without it i cant do anything much really
i quote this from other site:
backpressure causes higher exhaust noise due to turbulence of slow moving gas from bigger pipe being collided by high speed gas behind it from exhaust port

if we want lowest possible noise, do piping as straight as possible, use biggest muffler canister/body, use smallest muffler pipe that flows enough for the engine. i believe if anyone is after pure exhaust performance, never use reverse flow / sflow / swirl unless one believe backpressure is needed to make power biggrin.gif

there is a difference between sflow type and small pipe in terms of flow restriction:
- sflow system RESTRICT exhaust by blocking the path and forces the gas to change direction
- small pipe system CONSTRICT exhaust to smaller volume, therefore increasing its pressure and hence is forced to move faster, it does not forces gas to change direction
- downside of small pipe is, it does not allow power in big throttle difference in short time i.e. sudden wide open throttle will give u a holdback. it works very well with progressive increasing throttle, so driver is also accountable to make power in this case

just for fun, check this out, apprently straight thru muffler does not really act like straight pipe, it acts more like a megaphone:
user posted image

yea thats the problem of fitting the box, space limitation, tune the downpipe length longer to fit the box and boosted rpm will be lowered biggrin.gif

i dont really rely on exhaust shops for exhaust info anymore, i rely only on their outstanding welding skill. this technique has been practiced for decades in racing scenes in western countries, but i never encountered anyone who tried this yet here so lets prove it biggrin.gif
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bro, see next weekend can make it or not..huhu..go dyno..wanna see b4 kacau d exhaust setup.. biggrin.gif not sure yet can go or not though..coz might goin bc hometown...

IMHO, for 1.0L-1.3L capacity engine, sflow might not ganggu d exhaust flow.. coz most of d exhaust sflow i google, all hav at least cfm of 2xx... dats enough free flow for low capacity engine i guess.. anyway, d s- flow muffler all i search is d branded 1 la...lol..
low yat 82
post Oct 3 2011, 11:27 AM

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QUOTE(luqmanz @ Oct 3 2011, 09:03 AM)
Wow great info in here ... I have been going around looking for ideas to mod my exhaust ... but there were so many conflicting opinions (most interesting is the backpressure for low-rpm, they make it sounds like a black art) in the scene that makes it hard for me to plan for the mods ...

I'have a manual Myvi 1.3 ... stock exhaust system and now looking for to upgrade to achieve almost zero-loss exhaust system... i have question

1) Is it necessary to change my stock extractor ?
2) The right length for downpipe is 52" ? Is it measured from exhaust valve (the engine) till the first bullet?
3) Where did the 52" figure comes from  ? Any formula ?
4) Adjusting the downpipe diameter will shift the max torque RPM? (smaller diameter, higher torque at lower RPM). Is there a formula for this ? So we can calculate what is the right diamter if the desired max torque RPM is 4000 for example.

I think the most "revolutionary" idea in the local scene is the pressure wave tuning ... nobody in the other forums or the shops ever mentioned about this ... thanks alot upontheriversky... now I know that the popular "backpressure" thing is not accurate. Hehehe
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alo bro~~~ hows ur forex tradin? lol biggrin.gif

actually newer breed youngster exhaust workshop, do noe ab this... jus they r not too well verse technical side of it..
sample took from 1 of workshop..2 straight flow mid muffler
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


zero loss a? hmm... its been proven dat wit 2.2cfm per hp, will hav near 0 loss bcoz of backpressure, but again . smaller diameter pipe will hav higher velocity at d expense of higher resistance.. i dun hav d calculations for d diameter, but as reference, untill 4k rpm, ur ori myvi 1.5" diameter will do better..


low yat 82
post Oct 3 2011, 08:00 PM

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QUOTE(luqmanz @ Oct 3 2011, 06:08 PM)
Wah nice exhaust .. woksyop mane yang buat ?

Hahaha ... still trading ... but nothing much ... been obsessed with exhaust lately LOL ...  sweat.gif

I think I have found the formula to calculate the length of the header + collector ... correct me if I'm wrong ...

Old high-school textbook    v = F * Lambda

F = exhaust frequency (calculated from RPM .. lets say its RPM is 4000)
V = speed of sound at collector's temperature (rev your engine at RPM 4K and measure with thermometer lol) ... at 100 C the speed of sound is  390 m/s
Lambda = to be calculated .. will need this figure to calculate the collector's length ..

Engine .. Myvi 1.3 ( 4-stroke, 4 cylinder ..  2 rev = 1 exhaust cycle per cylinder )

F = ( 4000 rpm / 2 ) x 4 cylinder = 8000 exhaust cycle per min = 133.33 exhaust per sec = 133.33 Hz

So calculating lambda ...

Lambda = V / F    =  390 / 133.33  =  2.925 meter

Using harmonics (length required to ensure resonance) =  Lambda / 2  =  1.46 meter  =  57.48  inches.

So the length of header + collector need to be around  57 inches ...

Another perspective ...

Length of collector = Speed of sound  /  RPM

Longer collector = lower optimal RPM  and vice-versa

Correct me if I'm wrong .... LOL ...


Added on October 3, 2011, 6:18 pmBy the way ... one question ... waht is the effect of the bends ? For example .. let's say the suitable collector length is 57" .. does it matter if the collector is not straight ?
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lol. same here..forkin alot MOD car... my tradin also okok..

d pic from facebook. from duno wat workshop..think xxss somethin like dat..

d calculation had to ask upondsky...anyway, nowadays people use software...
low yat 82
post Oct 4 2011, 08:41 AM

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QUOTE(Kirie @ Oct 3 2011, 09:38 PM)
the shop name is Exss Work at Setapak
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nod.gif nod.gif

QUOTE(luqmanz @ Oct 4 2011, 07:24 AM)
Heheh wanna share with you all ... my GHETTO CAI ..

Myvi 1.3 ....

Stuff ...

KNN with ram-pipe  = RM 260
Air hose                = RM 35
Aluminium foil        = RM 8 

LOL .. GHETTO!!!! ..


Added on October 4, 2011, 7:32 am

Hows their price and workmanship  ?
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haha! diy rules~~

i think mayb lengthen using exhaust pipe to near d corner of headlamp would b better.. well, dats wat usual setup.. mayb u can ask d theory of length tuned intake from upondsky..

d workmanship i guess is ok coz not many complain.. price r really expensiv than most other shop... u can check out their facebook..
low yat 82
post Oct 10 2011, 07:43 PM

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QUOTE(amir_tengkorak @ Oct 10 2011, 07:31 PM)
Hai guys.i'm new in this lowyat forum.

Currently driving satria 1.3 carburetor.
My current exhaust setup is
1)Zenden 4-2-1 Extractor
2)2 inch nenas/flexi pipe
3)1.7 inch piping with 2 inch mid bullet
4)2 inch straight flow muffler

Previously i was using stock nenas/flexi which is the size is around 1.5 or 1.6 inch..
I've decided to change to bigger nenas because i scared of bottleneck in my exhaust system..
After changed to 2 inch nenas/flexi,low end tarak power already..
Should i stick with it,change to 1.7 inch nenas,or change back to stock nenas?

Thanks for reading yo.
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wahahah!! king amir also come here~~

prepare kena mind twistin theory la...lol!

lol... i till noe no dare sentuh pipe diameter coz scare my low end disturbed...zzz
low yat 82
post Oct 10 2011, 08:46 PM

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QUOTE(amir_tengkorak @ Oct 10 2011, 07:55 PM)
dei..apa king laaaa..
actually,its just slightly low end power lost..
and the good side is,when the torque kicks in,fuh..
gear 3 macam nak terbang siot..  sweat.gif
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ooo...good for u la.. i cannot.. everyday drive town. low end must take care.. icon_question.gif icon_question.gif
low yat 82
post Oct 11 2011, 09:09 AM

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QUOTE(upontheriversky @ Oct 10 2011, 10:09 PM)
same for me also.. if low end lost i couldn sleep at night hahaha
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haha!

QUOTE(amir_tengkorak @ Oct 11 2011, 12:30 AM)
wei tauke 5770,come la test my car first..tak try tak tau maaa..sudah try hari hari mau maaa.. laugh.gif
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haha! kanasai la u. dun poison me la. =.=!

QUOTE(upontheriversky @ Oct 11 2011, 04:16 AM)
true also, i couldn get the take-off rush speeding after paying toll as fast as when i was on bigger pipe anymore haha but top speed sustain is much superior with smaller pipe, just need to open throttle gradually instead of floor it down right from beginning. i had problem sutaining power at high gear speed with bigger pipe
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how it happen cant sustain power at high speed gear wit bigger pipe?


low yat 82
post Oct 11 2011, 09:48 PM

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QUOTE(samwongjyhhorng @ Oct 11 2011, 08:04 PM)
Is it nobody can help me to answer my question?another question is my bullet n midbox distance onli 4inch,is it oso wil affect top speed?
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IMHO, d distance is not d big question... d big question is d diameter of pipe in between of dat 2...
low yat 82
post Oct 11 2011, 10:07 PM

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QUOTE(samwongjyhhorng @ Oct 11 2011, 09:54 PM)
piping diameter still is original..if i take out the bullet and use the midbox onli,isit performance still remain same or more worse?
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this 1 need ask d exhaust specialist dat put 2 muffler for u.. in velocity terms, it doesnt matter, onli d sound might b louder abit..in pressure wave tuning, m not sure..
low yat 82
post Oct 12 2011, 09:27 AM

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kanasai. meet up around sunway la.... wan go dyno ma... uponskyriver u dyno d? mayb we go dyno la..huhu.. easier to chat wit graph infront us biggrin.gif
low yat 82
post Oct 12 2011, 10:32 AM

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QUOTE(amir_tengkorak @ Oct 12 2011, 10:04 AM)
wei mau dyno ka? adoi next month la..this month koyak liao..
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next month a hmm.gif hmm.gif

see wat upondskyriver say 1st lo.. actually wanna dyno wit him since 2 weeks ago.... jus no time..zzz


waaa... speedworks rm100 per run...so expensiv.... http://www.speedworks.com.my/dynamic_test_systems.aspx

millenium shawnz told me rm60 for 3 runs.. hmm.gif
low yat 82
post Oct 13 2011, 08:28 AM

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» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


this 1 need confirm wit king amir lo.. if he really wanna do dyno, then wait for him lo... i lately burnt a hole in d pocket as well... somemore this end of month goin holiday at langkawi...lucky this month salary comes out at 2Xhb sweat.gif sweat.gif

low yat 82
post Oct 16 2011, 08:38 PM

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QUOTE(samwongjyhhorng @ Oct 16 2011, 02:14 PM)
Is it auto car can use 4-1?wat difference wit 4-2-1?
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there r 2 types of 4-1. d usual people say low power on low rpm is d long type,.. there is another type which is short 4-1.. its something like exhaust manifold.. d short 4-1 is extrememly suitable for town drive...but will mati pucuk vry fas... mayb 4krpm.. not sure..
low yat 82
post Oct 19 2011, 03:48 PM

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QUOTE(XionCity @ Oct 19 2011, 03:16 PM)
Hey guys, I had an exhaust setup error problem here...
recently, my car no power...since after i changed my car's exhaust system...(i lost my original stuff after left it at friend's house, he lost it too)

My ride is KIA Forte 1.6L Automatic. Originally 1.6'' piping, and i change it to 2'', while feeling underpowered, i changed it back 1.6''. but problem is, my original center box which came with catalyst converter, is lost, and i can't find it again(unless buy it for cost of RM3k)....i used a mid-box recommend by exhaust shop, ended up feel no increment of power(low to mid-end torque).

Original system 0-100km/h at max 12 secs, now is around 13.5-14 secs......I did like 2 know is there any mid-box that can help providing low to mid-end torque??? So far, i only found out there are 2 types only....twisting mid-box(i m using it now), and straight flow mid-box(minimum of 1.8'' diameter).....do u all know anything type or any other types of mid-box should i use to get bck my low2mid-end torque or better?
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mid box also got swirl type? i thought bullet onli got...lol...

anyway, u do not need swirl type as u alrady change back to 1.6" pipe... imho, d bullet/box shud b put near d ori place to gain bc ur power losses... u can find mfa in auto garage sales.. i think he can help u solve d placement
low yat 82
post Oct 25 2011, 08:57 AM

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QUOTE(amir_tengkorak @ Oct 24 2011, 08:52 AM)
My low end torque is baaaaaaaccccckk!!!
I've changed back to previous nenas/flexi pipe. brows.gif

To 4G13 owner,if ur car is stock,don't use 2 inches nenas or piping.suffer wei last few weeks with the 2 inches nenas.. sweat.gif
wei low yat 82,come shah alam.i kasi test.. brows.gif
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hehe! thanks for d experiment yo... but i dunno my flexi pipe size though... y shah alam a? u not stay at kelana jaya ka?

m havin dilemma wit my torque curve la.. how come shape like sheet 1 a... bcoz afr or wat a?zzzz

Attached Image
from my analysis, it seems m havin problem wit 4k rpm..

n from d calculation i did for my engine,in terms of wave / pressure analysis,

d stock intake ruuner length is maximise for around 4k rpm wit 3rd Harmonic, means cant sqeeze anymore

d exhaust currently tune for 3k rpm, guess i can tune this part for better mid range torque... mayb tune for 4k rpm.. hmm.gif

d piping currently at stock 1.5"... tuned for 3k rpm.. guess i increase d size to 1.6-1.65" to tune better power at 4k rpm range...

not sure shud i tune for max torque instead as its quite far away at 5k rpm....let me noe wat u guys think of...


QUOTE(syafiqariff @ Oct 25 2011, 03:03 AM)
hi guys.. i'm new here anyway
i'm just setup me exhaust system at EXSS WORK last week
myvi 1.3 sxi (manual)
costly rm2300.. really crazy
but i'm totally satisfied with the perfomance

mr sharom advise me to do his way
and it is proven!
it is true pick up & torque is super superb!!!

the problem is the sound is like normal standard myvi as usual
i like the one which sound quite loud.[COLOR=orange]
even though my myvi perfomance now is tip top
but i still want that sound in my exhaust
[color=green]so i'm here to offer u guys who want my exhaust system
i have the receipt 22/10/2011

mr Shahrom useing 1.6" pipe - 2 oval mid box(inlet/outlet 1.6") - 1.6" pipe -
Hotbits chambered muffler located beside the fuel tank - 1.6" pipe to the back

but i only want to sell the Hotbits chambered muffler located beside the fuel tank - 1.6" pipe to the back
price rm600.. negotiable[COLOR=red]

you will not get this price with mr shahrom hehe..
can test my car first if u guys want.
014-7117172[COLOR=blue]
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lol..nice stuff... exss work i saw their facebook b4. they use wave pressure tuning..but d price r....
low yat 82
post Oct 25 2011, 10:07 AM

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QUOTE(amir_tengkorak @ Oct 25 2011, 09:39 AM)
I'm from shah alam la dei..  smile.gif

To all who want to tembak me and say flexi pipe size doesn't matter,go ahead try to change to big size.
Even exhaust shop tembak me and say that flexi pipe doesn't matter.
But then after i explain my problem,then only they started to "oh ya la maybe got difference"
F**k la..off course got difference..if u compare the inner size of a small and big flexi pipe,big difference la..
Front portion of exhaust system pulak tu..haiz..
If anyone here want to tembak me,hold on..chill..
Go to exhaust shop,buy a flexi pipe that is bigger than ur current flexi pipe and install it.
Use it 1 month see u can tahan or not the almost no low end power..hahahaha
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haha... u taiko ma.. they too bz sellin exhaust forgot ab d importance of flexi pipe.

i guess when u say really got different means can feel.. dunno mine wat size..goona see it when change piping..
shah alam where? not free la... goin to langkawi on this thursday..huhu... comin back on 29th... means cant join u guys for dinner doh.gif
low yat 82
post Oct 25 2011, 10:37 AM

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QUOTE(amir_tengkorak @ Oct 25 2011, 10:16 AM)
Dei what taiko.. dry.gif
Eh u confirm mau tukar piping ah? naissss... brows.gif
Langkawi apa bikin? come la the 4G1series dinner..got lots of straight road there to test..hehehehehe
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ya... confirm... increase to 1.6"-1.65" (internal shud b 1.5x) dun wan too big la.. later low end reduce alot..cannot la.. coz 95% i town drive.... >.<"

langkawi las time alreay buy airasia ticket... pergi balik onli rm90 for 2 person... huhu..


low yat 82
post Oct 25 2011, 01:42 PM

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QUOTE(amir_tengkorak @ Oct 25 2011, 11:40 AM)
Before u tukar,come la test my car first.feel the low end power first..if nice for u,then change la 1.7 inch..
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like dat good also.. i contact u after come bc from langkawi..huhu..

QUOTE(Peekab0o @ Oct 25 2011, 12:36 PM)
I using 1.7" too ... Orgasam wei  brows.gif
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lol... drool.gif

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