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 Singapore REITS, S-REITS

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Ramjade
post Oct 30 2021, 06:09 AM

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QUOTE(TOS @ Oct 29 2021, 10:27 PM)
Not in HK and SG. SG is where I want to be. tongue.gif
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QUOTE(TOS @ Oct 29 2021, 11:27 PM)
Ok I did some quick check, stay in Malaysia for 182 days or more then considered tax resident, so I buy property in SG with my family when retire stay in Malaysia for a few days less than 6 months, then can escape tax. biggrin.gif
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Sg is one of the worst place to be. Portugal, Canada are good place to stay Portugal low tax.
Finland very good life balance.
Canada high tax but good life

You do know that sg PR cannot buy a hdb? They need to buy a 5 year old flat. One HDB easily sgd300k. Good luck.
Ramjade
post Oct 30 2021, 08:49 AM

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QUOTE(TOS @ Oct 30 2021, 07:01 AM)
Well everyone has different goals and views. I disdain Western countries for their high taxes and over-liberal lifestyle, plus racial discrimination there. You seem to hate SG in every way, that's ok.

HDB resale flat is what I am aiming for, if I am SG PR. I do not discount the possibility of giving up my MY citizenship, so there is still a chance of me becoming kiasu kiasi Singaporean, then BTO flats will be the main avenue for me.

For work SG is fine, also good for starting a family too, compared to MY and HK. But for retirement, as of now, MY still ranks the best among the 3.
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For rising family no. Have you seen the kids at sg? All work and no play. 6 year old already for tuition and all kind of classes.

My friend was in sg. He told me the parents there want to hire him to teach their children sports and play games. Can you believed that?

It's not about over liberal. You want to have best work life balance. Do you want to overtime work say 10h a day or do you want to work say 8h 4 days a week? Your choice.

I do not hate sg. I am just saying they are old fashion Vs HK (unable to move USD around) or us (no fingerprint verification for withdrawal). Also ask yourself do you want to be kiasu and kiasi? I cannot imagine living that kind of life. Imagine go out makan and put tissue on the table cause scared someone take your seat.l

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Oct 30 2021, 09:35 AM
Ramjade
post Oct 30 2021, 09:32 AM

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QUOTE(kart @ Oct 30 2021, 08:58 AM)
If the dividend (derived from Stock Exchanges not in Malaysia) is credited into our banking accounts in Singapore or any other foreign country, income tax should not be imposed upon our dividend, right?
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Theoretically it should be taxed as it's a source of income. But that's where the line foreign income isn't clearly explained. Is it jobs or does it involve investment? We will know on Jan 2021. If they ask to pay, just pay only. But I like what you are thinking. If it never arrived back in Malaysia, is it counted? But you never know. Govt all around the world no money already. It's a global stuff. Govt around the world trying to claw back the money they gave out. More prominent in Malaysia. Have you seen the other tax?
1) tax on all imported stuff
2) tax on courier service

The two tax will.increase inflation and cost of living as everything we use is imported.

But I am more interested in the foreign income tax.

QUOTE(TOS @ Oct 30 2021, 09:01 AM)
What about if it goes to SG bank account, then you move that dividend into Malaysia say via CIMB SG/Maybank SG to say CIMB MY?

If LHDN/IRB wants to argue, you transfer it to Malaysia, so you receive it in Malaysia in the end. Sound plausible?
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But the thing is I never withdraw my money back to Malaysia at all. So I am eligible to be tax since the money never come back to Malaysia at all.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Oct 30 2021, 09:39 AM
Ramjade
post Oct 31 2021, 11:48 PM

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QUOTE(tadashi987 @ Oct 31 2021, 11:12 PM)
so far I have never transmitted back to Msia, having said the details are yet to be finalized or provided.

Seriously I am really sceptical about how they are gonna manage this.
Imagine I invested long term in S-Reits, realized gain and reinvest countless times, in between I might remit some of my SGD back to MYR
1) how they are gonna know that this SGD is my gain from S-Reits, how does the accounting work? who gonna calculate how much tax to pay? shakehead.gif
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Er, isn't it obvious, it is up to us to declare, pay and fill for refund and keep the records. They want our money but refuse to do the heavy lifting. I am so gonna vote opposition in this coming election. I never voted. But ranting.gif ranting.gif vmad.gif vmad.gif

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Oct 31 2021, 11:50 PM
Ramjade
post Nov 3 2021, 11:58 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Nov 3 2021, 11:23 AM)
No. I did not use IB. I use local broker. Kenanga Inv Bank. 
Reason: I am old man. There is the matter of probate in case i leave.   laugh.gif 
Easier if i maintain a Malaysian broker.
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He don't mind giving free money to brokerage. Hehe...
Btw moomoo is better than tiger. If you can deposit in sgd50k can earn free apple share. Based off my friend who used both. I didn't open moomoo caused they asked for passport.

According to elea88 very easy to get money out from sg using their will. Based off her research.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Nov 4 2021, 12:03 AM
Ramjade
post Nov 4 2021, 12:59 AM

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QUOTE(TOS @ Nov 4 2021, 12:04 AM)
Why even you also fall into the "free share" trap... Can't you see through the business-minded mindset of the chinese capitalist..
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Bro, you can get the free share, sell it and cash out straight away. I know of one Singaporean guy doing that with his wife. Instant I think 10% ROI. There's no penalty for doing it. Back when it only required SGD2500 of deposit. That guy did the above but still keeping the moomoo account. #truestory biggrin.gif

You can then close account if you don't want to use them and withdraw all your money. Again no penalty.

That's what some people in the US do. Farming free cashback from new sign up credit cards and free stocks from brokerage.

When people give you free money, take it. Don't turn down free money.

It's not ethical but hey the company is the one throwing out free money.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Nov 4 2021, 01:01 AM
Ramjade
post Nov 4 2021, 10:42 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Nov 4 2021, 07:58 AM)
i don't need freebies. i need convenience for my family if i am not around any more. So for me, anything which makes life easier for them.

Plus, i do not trade in and out much. So charges for trustee fees is more impactful to me than the odd 0.1 % of brokerage for the cost of convenience.
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For reits, use FSM. I do not know how tiger or moomoo handle rights. But FSM is very easy for rights issue. All online.

Theoretically moomoo and tiger should also be online. But moomoo, tiger beats in term of interface, tools and fees.

If you don't want to fly into Singapore,
1) open cimb sg account online.
2) open moomoo/FSM online.

QUOTE(TOS @ Nov 4 2021, 08:12 AM)
but still keeping the moomoo account

That's it! That is the idea of this tactic after all. Because the company knows you are unlikely to close the account, one day you will come back and use it. (You may not right now, but big tech can afford to wait). Leaving an empty account also invites other risks of maintenance (account security issues etc.)

Farming free cashback from new sign up credit cards

Ok, I know. My mum wanted to do that too, but I stopped her. Think again, you get the freebies, what happen to the credit card? You cancel it?

Or you use it? Use it and potential cash flows with IRR of single/double digits flow to the banks and me (MA and V shareholder tongue.gif).

In behavioural economics there is the theory of endowment effect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endowment_effect

You own something, it's hard to dispose them. So businessmen trick you into buying something you don't need in the first place. This can be seen in other places like AMZN's retailers offering free cashback refund if you don't like their clothes (because they know you are less likely to return them).  

When people give you free money, take it. Don't turn down free money.

I don't buy into that. In HK, you learn that there is no such thing as free. This is basic rules of economics 101. When something is free, you ought to pause and think again, not jumping straight into it.

People do things for a motive. Maximize your own utility, not others, that's the goal. Why would Tencent spray cash (so much of them) to give "free shares"? Because one day later you will repay them. It is factored into their business strategy. Right now, each person given one AAPL share which cost several hundred dollars, in the future, for the business to be profitable, they need to recoup at least the several hundred dollars paid today plus interests over time to account for the opportunity cost, that would roll into the thousands (per person) over the years.

As the mantra goes: embrace, extend, extinguish. It is business tactic.

But well, everyone likes free things. Brain chemistry at the mercy of businessman's greed. laugh.gif
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Bro, I planned to open moomoo not to get free shares. I open it cause my sg friend who use TD, Interactive broker said nice things about them. I planned to get it for two reasons
1) free real time data for share price.
2) free real time price for options

I have tiger but tiger real price sort of only works on shares. And I got free Starbucks share from it. Never sold. tongue.gif

Like I said, hit and run. After get the free shares, sell it, cash out, close account. Mo penalty for hit and run.

For credit card, apply for it and don't use it. After 6 months cancel. I read of one guy in lowyat forum doing that for Maybank visa signature. Every 6 months reapply cause don't want to pay annual fees.

For me, I only apply credit cards that I only use. Unless they are like US where they give you free USD2k to open new credit card account then maybe I will farm credit card. But Malaysia have no reach that stage yet, so no incentive for me to farm credit card with lousy welce.bonus.

Read all the terms and condition and fees before signing up for something. That's what I did. I make sure no platform fees, no yearly fees, no penalties before doing hit and run on brokerage.
Btw moomoo platform fees is when one carry out transaction only and it's not quarterly. And fees is still cheaper than local brokerage.

For me, only thing I farm is credit card cashback. Reasons
1) it's stupid to pay in cash
2) banks giving you free money take it
3) I use it on groceries, petrol so if I use cash, I won't get anything back.
4) I pay on-time and in full and banks never make money from me.

QUOTE(kart @ Nov 4 2021, 09:05 AM)
Let's assume a simple scenario, whereby a person decides to invest RM 1000 (by transferring this RM 1000 from Malaysia to foreign country), in Stock Exchanges in foreign country.
Scenario 1:
After a year, this person gain a profit of RM 100 (from share capital gain, and dividend). The total amount that this person has in foreign banking account and foreign brokerage account is RM 1100.

This person then decides to remit RM 1000 back to Malaysia.  The actual profit of RM 100 is still being kept in foreign banking account.

In such scenario, this RM 1000 should not be taxed, because it is not foreign-sourced income, and it is just initial investment capital of this person.
Scenario 2:

Let's assume that the share price has dropped, and the investment amount has decreased from RM 1000, to RM 800, due to capital loss. Then, person then decides to remit RM 800 back to Malaysia.

In such scenario, this RM 800 should not be taxed, because it is not foreign-sourced income. Moreover, this person has suffered losses in his / her investment capital.
Are my understanding on both scenarios correct?
Thank you. smile.gif
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Let's wait until 2022.

QUOTE(TOS @ Nov 4 2021, 09:20 AM)
I am not sure if LHDN allow you to claim tax refund against you loses in investments though, US allows you to do that: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/perso...ur-tax-bill.asp

Not heard of that in MY as far as I know. I think that is for countries with capital gain tax only.
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Unlikely they let you claim.l. Govt no money already.

QUOTE(cherroy @ Nov 4 2021, 09:28 AM)
Nothing beat convenience sake.

We can't squeeze every drop out. Sometimes a little price paid for easier management, especially aging time, memory may wane.  laugh.gif
Also, for the sake quick and easier for families member for Will execution.

A good long term investment return often overwhelmed the cost saving squeezed.
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Agreed. Use to squeeze every drop guy. Now realised investment gains > small fees. But I still keep my cost low.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Nov 4 2021, 10:43 AM
Ramjade
post Nov 5 2021, 06:15 PM

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QUOTE(Hansel @ Nov 5 2021, 06:07 PM)
Bros,... I believed that taxation thing is only for corporates which have overseas operation and revenue.

Not for individual investors. It is impossible to tax individuals as all discussed here,... unless,... you are the IRS.
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I wished you were right but it seems like we will be taxed.

QUOTE
it was proposed that income tax be imposed on residents in Malaysia with income derived from foreign sources and received in Malaysia, from Jan 1, 2022

QUOTE
Foreign sourced income

From Jan 1, 2022 onwards, foreign sourced income received in Malaysia will be taxed in Malaysia. This applies to both individuals and corporates.


https://www.theedgemarkets.com/article/prop...says-tax-expert
https://www.thesundaily.my/business/tax-mat...vival-AY8515064

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Nov 5 2021, 06:19 PM
Ramjade
post Nov 5 2021, 07:13 PM

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QUOTE(TOS @ Nov 5 2021, 06:59 PM)
So as long as not bring back then no tax. Correct? Now many are looking for ways to spend SGD bank account money directly in M'sia to avoid tax. You got suggestions?
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Just bring back the min amount so won't kena tax. I am sure there's a threshold say only RM10k/year. And only if you really need it.
Ramjade
post Nov 6 2021, 02:04 AM

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QUOTE(TOS @ Nov 5 2021, 10:09 PM)
So local UT/companies dividends will also be taxed then, if the government wants foreign-sourced and brought-in ones taxed.

ASNB and EPF will be exempted I guess, otherwise millions of people will raise a big row.
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Actually no. Majority of those invested in EPF only want better performance than FD.
Ramjade
post Nov 9 2021, 03:23 PM

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QUOTE(tkwmm @ Nov 9 2021, 01:25 PM)
Hi fellow bro and sis, I freshie that just starting to look for some investment, and I am interest to invest S-REITs for the dividend.

From what I research, there is a few steps.

1.) Open a Singapore Bank Account.
i Citibank
ii. DBS / POSB (I choose POSB My Account)
iii. HSBC
iv. OCBC
v. Standard Chartered Bank
vi. UOB

Updated
-----
while doing some research, the most easier way transfer from MYR to SGD is via CIMB , linking both Malaysia and SG CIMB account.

2.) Look for a broker, and register an account
i. Saxo
ii. Tiger
iii. Standard Chartered
iv. PhillipCapital
v. OCBC Securities
vi. UOB Kay Hian
vii. DBS Vickers
viii. moomoo

which I see many people recommending Tiger and Moomoo

3. Open a CDP account at https://investors.sgx.com/cdp-account-openi.../form-selection. I heard broker will help you open if you do not have one, not sure true or not, and the fees.

Updated
----
There is also Interactive Brokers. It is up to you to choose. You don't need to open a CDP account if you stick to Moomoo/TIGR/Interactive Brokers as they are custodian/street name accounts.

If there is mistake in my steps, hope someone pointing it out, thanks.
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Just go with cimb sg. It's the easiest one for Malaysians to open as it is all online. No need to visit SG. Wrong. The best way to send money to SG is using Sunway Money. Don't bother with MY banks -> banks unless you want to lose 2-3% upfront. However, I do recommend using Cimb SG -> Cimb MY as they have the best rate.

If you are just going to buy reits, be prepared to cough up cash every now and then for rights issue by reits. If you are not ready to cough up cash for rights issue, then you need to think is reits really for. It's inevitable.
Go with FSM SG. They deal with rights issue very well. Can even apply for access all from online. They are not useful for US stocks, unit trust. Avoid them totally for US stocks, unit trust.
Saxo all marketing and fees. Do not recommend them at all. Avoid.
PhillipCapital, OCBC Securities, UOB Kay Hian all fees only if you are using custodian account (quarterly platform fees)
DBS Vickers only useful if you want to open DBS account. Otherwise, not useful.
Standard Chartered high forex fees, they restrict you by preventing you from buying some US reits listed in SG. Hard for Malaysians to open. I will give it a skip.
Tiger, moomoo good for farming free shares and get instant 10% return by getting free shares. Keep in mind you can cash out the free shares after getting them and close account. No penalty. They are useful for US stocks if you don't want to use Interactive broker. I personally use Tiger for real time price for my US stocks as Interactive Broker does not have real time quotes and I am too cheap to pay for them. I do not know how they handle rights issue as I never use them for rights issue. I just use them for free real time US stock price.

Interactive broker, Highly recommended for US, HK, UK, AU, Canada, Europe stocks over anybody else. Super cheap commission and spot rate conversion (real time forex rate without any markup) and no platform or inactivity fess. Where can you find a broker which give you spot rates for converting your money and access to so many markets? Highly recommended.

Don't bother about CDP if you are buying reits. Why? If you don't have SG address and don't have access to a SG atm machine or access to a relationship manager, you cannot participate in rights issue. That's why I reocmmend FSM SG only for reits.

If it's too long, quick and short version to have
1. Cimb SG bank acocunt
2.Sunway money
3. Cimb Malaysia bank acccunt
4. Moomoo - for real time US stock price
5. FSM SG - for reits
6. Interactive broker - for other overseas holdings except sg reits.

Keep in mind I am writing this as someone who doesn't have priority/private banking in SG/SG address. Just your regular poor Malaysian. So if you have priority/private banking in SG/SG address, the above quick and dirty tutorial might not be suitable for you.

QUOTE(TOS @ Nov 9 2021, 02:11 PM)
Hello and welcome to S-REITs world.

There are 2 types of brokerage accounts, CDP and custodian/street name accounts. CDP means you are registered directly as a shareholder of the company and you get to vote, attend AGM/EGMs etc. You will need an SG address in order to open a CDP account. You can still vote/attend AGM/EGM if you opt for a custodian account, but you need to do extra work by notifying your broker in advance to obtain the permissions to join the meetings or cast your vote.

Since you already have an SG bank account (or you have chosen one), then you can proceed to choose your broker, the new incoming ones like moo (Futu SG) and TIGR offer lower fees and charges with lots of "free gifts". There is also Interactive Brokers. It is up to you to choose. You don't need to open a CDP account if you stick to Moomoo/TIGR/Interactive Brokers as they are custodian/street name accounts.

Other players like the banks and Phillips offer both CDP and custodian accounts, usually the CDP account is more expensive.

There are guides online on choosing which types of accounts and to choose which broker to start with. https://blog.moneysmart.sg/invest/investmen...ingapore-guide/

Hope that helps.
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Wrong. Even as a nominee/custodian account, you get to attend the AGM. Only need to inform your brokerage that you want to attend. But like you said need extra work.
Wrong. You don't need a SG address. I registered with a Malaysian address.

Unless you are a whale or hold substantial amount say 5% of the reits holding, your voice doesn't matter. tongue.gif

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Nov 9 2021, 03:25 PM
Ramjade
post Nov 9 2021, 03:55 PM

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QUOTE(TOS @ Nov 9 2021, 03:37 PM)
Maybe rule changed. Anyway for S-REITs right subscription, you need a local SG address anyhow. Individually, you voice don't matter, but collectively, they matter, as seen in Sabana's case last year.
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The rules never change. It have always been that since I opened account. No one told me that I cannot participate in rights if I have a Malaysian account as you "must manually key into atm" for rights if using CDP. Very old fashion considering nowadays eveeubtik g can practically be done online.
Ramjade
post Nov 9 2021, 04:07 PM

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QUOTE(tkwmm @ Nov 9 2021, 04:00 PM)
If I would like to participate in the right issues, can I use my sister Singapore address? My sister live in Singapore.

I dun mind buying more share with discounted price, as long as they are expending the business (more dividend in the future perhaps), instead of repaying their loan.
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If use CDP account, you need someone to press the ATM for you. Like I said , if you want to participate, just do so with FSM. Totally online and so easy. No need to queue up at ATM. Save time. Unless you are like Singaporean who love to queue. tongue.gif

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Nov 9 2021, 04:08 PM
Ramjade
post Nov 9 2021, 08:40 PM

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QUOTE(Hansel @ Nov 9 2021, 08:13 PM)
Who said must press at ATM for Rights application for CDP ?
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If you are non DBS customer and no access to relationship manager? Only way is press ATM button. From what I saw in the chats with Singaporean investors.
Ramjade
post Nov 10 2021, 04:12 PM

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QUOTE(frostfrench @ Nov 10 2021, 03:09 PM)
Hello, I was wondering any one here are still buying or monitoring SG Reits at the moment?

I looking at Mapletree's MCT, MIT, MLT. At the moment MIT looks good to me, YTD -7% already
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I jumped shipped from reits already. Never monitor them already. Too slow. tongue.gif
Ramjade
post Nov 17 2021, 09:23 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Nov 17 2021, 09:02 AM)
That is a lot of work for overseas tax authorities?  For the sake of malaysia?  laugh.gif
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It's all automatic. CRS form that you sign. That's the one.
Ramjade
post Nov 17 2021, 08:43 PM

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QUOTE(Hansel @ Nov 17 2021, 08:22 PM)
Bros,... asking fro help here : please monitor and put up the FAQs here later when they appeared in the LHDN Website,...

I'll help to interpret,...
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Ok.
Ramjade
post Nov 23 2021, 06:37 PM

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QUOTE(TOS @ Nov 23 2021, 03:22 PM)
Ya, old hand knows better. tongue.gif I am mostly textbook-style in my approach. biggrin.gif
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Investing is an art. You cannot follow blindly by the books. Very good example. Tesla, bitcoin, ether tongue.gif

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Nov 23 2021, 06:37 PM
Ramjade
post Nov 25 2021, 11:53 AM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Nov 24 2021, 03:50 PM)
No matter how, the 2.x% yield is difficult to justify for reit although it is very stable.

In fact, recent many Sreit price even for malls and hospitality related (whereby situation has yet back to pre-pandemic level and has long road to go before we can say back to normal, as travelling won't be back to total normal at least until after 2023, in the mean time, some malls may face negative rental reversion) are actually creeping to upside despite treasuries yield is at upward trajectory, which defy normal reit vs bond/treasuries inverse relationship.
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Bro, you haven't see US reits yet. My favourite prologis is I think only 1%.
Ramjade
post Dec 11 2021, 03:47 PM

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QUOTE(TOS @ Dec 11 2021, 03:15 PM)
Hi, welcome.

I would love to participate in rights offerings but because my address is not in SG, I can't participate in them. These days there are private placements too but they are for accredited investors only. Most members here participate if they want to stay with the REITs in the long run, otherwise their shareholdings might be diluted (private placements result in dilution too).
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Now you know my pain? That's why I said sg govt very old fashion. In this year and age still need person to have sg address for rights. Very old fashion when you it can be done online.

For rights or placement just use FSM SG. Can be done via online unless it's private placement. Actually not true. If you catch a REIT at very low price, any rights or placement basically no impact.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Dec 11 2021, 03:47 PM

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