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 Proton PrevĂ© V15, Slow & Steady, Come Join Us Already..

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GoldenHawk
post Oct 18 2012, 11:05 AM

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QUOTE(GoldenHawk @ Oct 17 2012, 04:55 PM)
Mine manual, no load, A/C off, night, flat road, floor the pedal & got 180KM/H cry.gif WHY!!! WHY!!!!!! cry.gif
*

Any other manual users with similar experience? unsure.gif

By the way, out thread got no logo sad.gif Need Mr. apimerah to fix it! tongue.gif
GoldenHawk
post Oct 18 2012, 04:04 PM

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QUOTE(dares @ Oct 18 2012, 11:49 AM)
Drive so fast for what? sleep.gif

In Malaysian traffic, low end torque is much more important than high top speed. unless you like to chase dugong and pay saman.
*
Meter got write '180' mar... have to try lor... tongue.gif I was quite disappointed that I can't get it to speeds my 20 year old Saga used to do... and it was bog-standard too sad.gif

QUOTE(archiq @ Oct 18 2012, 11:58 AM)
i thought stickshifter user can press pedal till redline in each every gear?  hmm.gif
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That was what I was trying to do - hitting the red-line in 5th... tongue.gif

Anyone managed to hit higher in non-CFE models? unsure.gif
GoldenHawk
post Oct 23 2012, 03:16 PM

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QUOTE(arthur88 @ Oct 23 2012, 02:24 PM)
what the.... doh.gif  doh.gif  doh.gif
nah user posted image
multiple sausage for u...
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Aiyo... now I'm hungry sad.gif
DAMN YOU!!!! mad.gif

laugh.gif laugh.gif

This post has been edited by GoldenHawk: Oct 23 2012, 03:17 PM
GoldenHawk
post Oct 23 2012, 03:21 PM

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QUOTE(Saya_Dhuang @ Oct 23 2012, 03:17 PM)
WAHAHAHA.. laugh.gif  laugh.gif

Now everybody's hungry in this thread! All Arthur's fault! tongue.gif
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Don't care! Next TT must bring sausages!! vmad.gif ...or he walks back!!!

laugh.gif

BTW, next TT bila? Any news? unsure.gif


Added on October 23, 2012, 3:24 pm
QUOTE(setsunagn0000 @ Oct 23 2012, 03:19 PM)
hi all i'm just a silent reader of this forum been following the preve forum since v1 til now haha..

do i own a preve? no, not yet i might own one maybe next year? or may continue to wait for the preve sapphire edition  drool.gif

anyway i just saw this thought i might share it here  smile.gif

http://funtastickodesign.wordpress.com/201...n-petronas-e01/
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Wah... faster than me smile.gif The actual article from Berita Harian is here:
--> http://www.bharian.com.my/bharian/articles...Article/artikel

We're not sure if the Sapphire is ever coming, just rumours - so if you're getting one, just go ahead. Or you could hold up for festive promotions & get some bargains then. Even now, there are forumers offering good deals & discounts on new Preve's (...cheh, I never get last time cry.gif )

This post has been edited by GoldenHawk: Oct 23 2012, 03:24 PM
GoldenHawk
post Oct 23 2012, 03:41 PM

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QUOTE(arthur88 @ Oct 23 2012, 03:32 PM)
u in northen region area?
didnt see u reply in my post in fb prevoc...
hmm.gif
*
Central & South blush.gif
Mai KL-lah... biggrin.gif


Added on October 23, 2012, 3:46 pm
QUOTE(setsunagn0000 @ Oct 23 2012, 03:41 PM)
faster by 3mins only haha

to be completely honest i'm ok with the current preve design (can mod to sapphire if want  tongue.gif ) but also torn between both the preve and inspira cause i like both!!  cry.gif
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I was bound by budget, so the Preve was the best option I had, given size & overall package. I'm not exactly "average built", so this was the only one I fit in comfortably tongue.gif
If you're stretching your budget by going for the Inspira, then I'd suggest getting the Preve & slowly upgrading the interior to match the Inspira's interior comfort levels. Preve doesn't come with leather interiors (which is a shame) but it is roomy.
As for performance, I can't say much. You're comparing a 2.0 vs. a 1.6. Even in the CFE flavours, you might not get the raw power of a 2-liter N/A engine. So don't aim for the moon tongue.gif
You should get into both cars (if possible, in succession) and do a 1-to-1 comparison. Decide after that...

Here's me sharing smile.gif

This post has been edited by GoldenHawk: Oct 23 2012, 03:46 PM
GoldenHawk
post Oct 23 2012, 05:17 PM

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QUOTE(LYNsucks @ Oct 22 2012, 10:38 PM)
Had tried the stick shifter iafm+ model and so far I could say it's a bit hard to drive when moving from stand still or slow down and then continue moving in 1st gear. The car seemed especially slow to response to clutch release which caused the rpm to drop drastically when release the clutch to make it move. It'll shoot back up to normal rpm once dropping too low(nearing stalled condition) eventhough throttle were being kept constant. That caused the car to jerk while moving in the traffic jam. I wonder if it'll improve after 1st 1000km service? Also, the acceleration seemed to be slow. I'd tried the turbo version before and that seemed to be easier to drive and behaved in a more normal manner.

Currently not confident enough to negotiate a slope as the slow response might stalled the engine! Will observe how it goes though.
*
Welcome to the club buddy sad.gif Like I mentioned before, I think there's an anti-stall logic that keeps the car from stalling if you release the clutch prematurely. It heightens the idle up to a point the engine is stable. However, the mechanism seems to immediately cut-off at the 1st sign of any throttle input. So, as soon as you depress the throttle, the idle drops (back to the standard idle). This, added with the very sluggish throttle response, is why you get the stalling effect.
A safe way to do this is to rev the engine, keep your foot there, then release the clutch. Yes, you'll look like an amateur driver but its better than stalling tongue.gif

My next trip to PROTON, I'm going to spike the idle a little. Lets see if that does the trick...

QUOTE(LYNsucks @ Oct 22 2012, 10:38 PM)
Hi there another manual driver! How's your ride so far? Have your car's minor issues solved?
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No-lah... they are still not giving me a car to use while repairing the gearbox sad.gif So I have no choice but to wait for a relieve car. I don't have a spare sad.gif
GoldenHawk
post Oct 24 2012, 10:20 AM

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QUOTE(mat79 @ Oct 23 2012, 06:38 PM)
hi, i dont really recommend u to increase the idling timing higher than standard coz it may cause ur campro based engine to become hotter than usual.
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I was thinking of this because I often get the "chak!" sound whenever I'm launching from 1st gear. I think this is the sound of some anti-stall mechanism kicking in - the idle will shoot up for a few seconds then go back to normal. I had this in my old Saga before & hiking the idle did the trick tongue.gif Just re-applying the logic here, although I think my gearbox issue has something to do with this problem as well. If the clutch is not releasing gradually, then the clutch will dump suddenly, causing the engine to stall, causing the anti-stall to kick in, right? unsure.gif

QUOTE(mat79 @ Oct 23 2012, 06:38 PM)
By the way, about the lag, its drive by wire lag. Main concern is to control emmision. For auto related car, its not really obvious(but still can feel the lag), but for manual using dbw throttle, more or less the same from initial throttle input. I'd never driven japs manual dbw equips cars, but had driven euro manual equips with dbw throttle. The effect during initial launch, almost the same, even for a bimmer.

Maybe u shud read up more on dbw throttle and learning through it how to minimise the lag. They can sharpen the throttle, but it come with a cost, emmision. Since preve is quite heavy, the lags is apparent even compare to flx 1.3 manual. Just rev a bit more than usual than u drive cable equip manual car, then it shud be ok. When its on the move, it shudnt be a big prob unless really low speed when u need to resot to 1st gear. Try to drive savvy manual(renault engine, manual trans with dbw),then u know what i mean. Actually nearly the same in any manual campro engine which utilise dbw throttle. Only the weight with the power of the engine make it a bit obvious than others. Europes manual cars using dbw hardly to see malaysia nowadays unless for big n powerful one. Renault, bimmer n vw uses dbw for manual, but i dont know whether its available for non sport oriented variant.
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Yes, in a manual, it's REALLY obvious. I've managed to find a way of utilizing the anti-stall to move the car, then get on the throttle (roll start, then throttle) but it usually doesn't work when I need to move in a rush. As a result, I'll have to throttle, keep it revved then release the clutch. Like I mentioned, sound like an amateur driving stick, but that seems to be the only way I know now sad.gif
I also agree that this is a heavy car with a (somewhat) under-powered lump. If the car were lighter OR engine more powerful, perhaps it wouldn't be so obvious. But as it is, it's a bit annoying. If sharpening the throttle would help, I don't mind going with that option but is it possible? Will Proton do it for me? unsure.gif

QUOTE(mat79 @ Oct 23 2012, 06:38 PM)
by the way goldenhawk, why not u write a formal letter to prtn hq requesting on replacement car@ some remuneration for renting outside car when ur car in workshop n try to mentioned all the trouble u have to face if there is none provided by them, n if they not commited to provide u any, u also mentioned that u will lodge report to tribunal on the matter. Maybe this will work :-). Keep copies of ur letter though for referance.

Maybe they r too busy in restructuring the company n over look it :-). I hope they listen coz i believe, previous one will do if u do it formally through the correct channel.
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Actually, I'm in queue for a relief car but the list moves REALLY slowly. My case is already with Customer Care. The last I checked, I was #15 in the list. I'll have to call them back again today I guess.

Maybe if I get frustrated today, I will send an email out. But to whom? unsure.gif

As always, your replies are tremendously appreciated Abg. mat97 thumbup.gif Hope to hear more from you soon biggrin.gif


Added on October 24, 2012, 10:23 am
QUOTE(V12Kompressor @ Oct 23 2012, 08:35 PM)
makan apa? sausage?  unsure.gif
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laugh.gif


This post has been edited by GoldenHawk: Oct 24 2012, 10:23 AM
GoldenHawk
post Oct 24 2012, 03:58 PM

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QUOTE(fysim @ Oct 24 2012, 03:45 PM)
The damage is RM2K sweat.gif


Added on October 24, 2012, 3:47 pm
Will post the pics once install next week icon_rolleyes.gif
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I opened a thread on this topic in Prevoc.org. I had a few quotes, ranging from RM2300 to RM2500 I think. This is the cheapest so far. What kind of leather are they using? Colours?

Hope the results are good smile.gif

This is the thread:
--> Replacing seat covers or seat fabric
GoldenHawk
post Oct 25 2012, 11:09 AM

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QUOTE(torres09 @ Oct 25 2012, 11:09 AM)
Im now at proton sc doing my 2nd service. Asked to do alignment and use full synthetic for 10k interval.
Hope can settle before lunch
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Bro.. you make sure they use 10W40 or better (Syntium 3000 and above). Syntium 1000 is 15W40. My car feels sluggish after the idiots in Glenmarie SC used this sad.gif


Added on October 25, 2012, 11:13 am
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

I've got a feeling all Preves are tuned the same, regardless of Manual or CVT. The engine is exhibiting CVT-like behaviours even though mine's a manual. I think that's why I have the idle-drop issue and so on. Is this normal? unsure.gif

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

wave.gif Abg. mat97... I think you missed my questions. Tolong... tolong... THANK YOU!!! biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by GoldenHawk: Oct 25 2012, 11:13 AM
GoldenHawk
post Oct 25 2012, 11:46 AM

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QUOTE(torres09 @ Oct 25 2012, 11:27 AM)
I asked puchong SC here they said fully synthetic only 15W. If use semi synthetic then have 10W.
So they are masuk-ing 15W for me. No difference they said. hmm.gif
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Trust me... GOT difference. I'm feeling it now sad.gif
And the guys there are dumb-@$$es... if don't have 10, go for 5W-lah! Cannot-ar?! Unless you say it's too expensive, then no comment tongue.gif
GoldenHawk
post Oct 25 2012, 02:01 PM

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QUOTE(mat79 @ Oct 25 2012, 01:00 PM)
Ha..ha..sorry,miss out that. Generally,nope coz not in practice in any car maker, but u can point out for their tuner such r3 for prtn, n others like trd,impul, mugen, m3 n etc. But doing outside, warranty will be void unless u use plug n paly things for dbw which can be easily dismantle when claim for it, for r3, normally,they give their own warranty, same as other tuners, but will effect factory warranty,unless the manufacturer give the warranty such r3 neo. Sorry about that. But i know a lot of tuners, even some protonians who work extra job(unofficial) doing tuning outsides.

For the letter, write to those who is in high rank, in the service centre@even prtn hq.

Iinm, its 15w 50 for syntium 1000. A good engine oil coz can withstand high temperature, but not really recommended coz its characteristic, n its quite thick. 5w 30@5w 40 shud do the trick if u want to use fs. If u notice, for common cars, many manufacturer recommend 10w 30 rating as standard. That is the best balance between price, performance n fc n it use less addititve.
If love to speed, always speeding n outstation,then 40 is my preference, but for normal ride, 30 rating is just nice.


Added on October 25, 2012, 1:00 pm
Ha..ha..sorry,miss out that. Generally,nope coz not in practice in any car maker, but u can point out for their tuner such r3 for prtn, n others like trd,impul, mugen, m3 n etc. But doing outside, warranty will be void unless u use plug n paly things for dbw which can be easily dismantle when claim for it, for r3, normally,they give their own warranty, same as other tuners, but will effect factory warranty,unless the manufacturer give the warranty such r3 neo. Sorry about that. But i know a lot of tuners, even some protonians who work extra job(unofficial) doing tuning outsides.

For the letter, write to those who is in high rank, in the service centre@even prtn hq.

Iinm, its 15w 50 for syntium 1000. A good engine oil coz can withstand high temperature, but not really recommended coz its characteristic, n its quite thick. 5w 30@5w 40 shud do the trick if u want to use fs. If u notice, for common cars, many manufacturer recommend 10w 30 rating as standard. That is the best balance between price, performance n fc n it use less addititve.
If love to speed, always speeding n outstation,then 40 is my preference, but for normal ride, 30 rating is just nice.
*
Wow... sampai double-post! shocking.gif Thanks Abg. mat97 thumbup.gif
PM tuner details sket... brows.gif tongue.gif
GoldenHawk
post Oct 31 2012, 10:21 AM

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Guys, have you taken a close look at your car's paint job? I realized it's not really smooth. It has an orange-peel effect, which is quite saddening sad.gif You can't see it from afar but if you wash your car yourself (like me), you'll definitely realize it
1) Anyone else realize this on their cars?
2) Has anyone tried fixing it? Pictures please smile.gif
GoldenHawk
post Oct 31 2012, 11:14 AM

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QUOTE(scarybuzz @ Oct 31 2012, 10:44 AM)
What color is your car bro? i think mine is good (solid white), I wax my car weekly so I'm looking at the paint surface in dif angle, maybe u got hawk eye hehe polishing can't solve the orange peel effect?
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Genetic Silver bro. Under proper lighting, can see sad.gif I'll see if can take pictures or not. Quite obvious-lah sad.gif
But for some strange reason, my car looks DAMN nice when it's wet tongue.gif
GoldenHawk
post Oct 31 2012, 01:53 PM

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QUOTE(Cavino @ Oct 31 2012, 01:49 PM)
New Civic using SOHC engine. Meant to coupled fc saving with performance. Preve is pure performance oriented with walak FC concern taking a backseat.
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Are you serious?! shocking.gif
GoldenHawk
post Oct 31 2012, 04:18 PM

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QUOTE(ymspsn @ Oct 31 2012, 02:35 PM)
To all Preve brothers out there. NEED HELP!!!

I'm driving a Preve Exective Manual. I'm glad that i bought this car and enjoy the ride so much so far.

However, recently i found out that it start to develop some noise especially when i release the clutch at 1st gear.
Noise is heard coming from the back then to the middle of the car. It comes to me like the fuel pump is suffering is sucking the fuel in and instead sucking in the air that makes the noise. ohmy.gif

Another thing is when driving in heavy traffic, the car seems to be "shivering" whenever it comes to a stop. ohmy.gif
Anyone has come across this problem so far? Please help!!!
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Yes! Another LoS member thumbup.gif
1) The noise - does it sound like "Chak! Chak!" when you release the clutch? This will occur when the idle is low, just as you release clutch and pedal the accelerator. Right?
2) Shivering when stop while you've freed the gear or while your foot on the clutch? Does the shivering stop when you stop & free the gear?

At the moment, I still have the erratic idling problem - it happens when the A/C cuts off. Since I usually set the A/C at its lowest most of the time, the A/C kicks in & cuts off quite frequently. So its quite obvious to me...
GoldenHawk
post Oct 31 2012, 04:49 PM

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QUOTE(ymspsn @ Oct 31 2012, 04:31 PM)
Hi GoldenHawk,

I was experiencing the both of the above mention. Does the SC has any solution for that?
But on top of that, just recently the problem develops, the light "kruk kruk" sounds that is heard coming from the back. I have try to duplicate the problem at my own. I think i'm now successfully in duplicating that.
The problem is most significant when the engine is at its operating temperature, then at idle slowly remove the clutch pedal without pressing on the accelerator. Ideally, the car should just glide smoothly without any noise. But in my case, I could actually hear the "kruk kruk" sounds (like we are sucking up teh-tarik to the last drop) coming from the back and passing below the handbrake. That's why i'm guessing if it is the fuel pump noise.
*

1) The "Chak! Chak!" sound is the anti-stall keeping the engine from dying (I think). I also have this problem & it's unresolved. I'll have to bring it up on the next service visit
2) This a question - when does the shivering happen? When idling or when your foot is still on the clutch?
3) I also had the "kruk kruk" sound before but mine happened when driving on uneven roads. Sadly, the sound has disappeared, before I could find the root cause sad.gif I hope it doesn't happen again... but if it does, I suspect it could be coming from the rear suspension components. At the moment, the only annoying sound I have is a faint "gluk... gluk... gluk..." sound when driving with load. It seems to be coming from somewhere around the rear wheel. The last 2 times I told the SC this, the said they "tighten under-carriage bolt". Both times also the sound came back. I suspect the SC will do the same for yours...

Anyway, where's your location?
GoldenHawk
post Oct 31 2012, 11:42 PM

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QUOTE(mat79 @ Oct 31 2012, 05:16 PM)
about the manual gearbox, they need to consult getrag on the matter coz now trans thing will be directly under oem supervision n warranty. The report need to be sent to them for rectification, unless it is related to the engine part. So,send to sc to check which part is associate with the problems. Seems punch is more proactive then getrag, or maybe getrag too busy due to high supply with other automakers. But every problems need time to rectify coz any counter measures need to be sure effective so that the same probs will not surface again.

Gk lai, i think its the tcu update. But just confius on the coolant change@top up. If top up, i think the excess of coolant shud be in ur car(of course,in bottle) coz rarely u need a bottle to top up. And compressor oil, i dont remember needed to change on that mileage. Maybe i miss that part@sanden did issue circular to replace the oil.
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Abg mat97, actually Getrag are very proactive. Remember my (unsolved) gearbox issue? I actually contacted Getrag & on the same day, I got a reply email pointing me to the correct person. On the 2nd day, the local representative call me already smile.gif The guy actually just got out of a major spine surgery a few days before & he still called me while on MC. I think this shows commitment to their products.
Sadly, I found out Proton have been doing their own "cost cutting" by engaging a secondary supplier for repairs & parts. En. Zulkifli (the local rep.) actually called Proton HQ to get the details on my case & it seems they have ordered parts from another supplier to fix my gearbox. And YET, he insisted I send the car to Proton for rectification & if there's still an issue, Getrag will swap the gearbox for free.
Now the ball is in Proton's court actually - they are STILL refusing to get me a relief car. I've still not gotten to the point of screaming at someone (via email or otherwise) & I'm still giving the "system" a chance to prove itself. Like I mentioned before, my name is in the relief car list & I'm waiting for my turn...

QUOTE(ymspsn @ Oct 31 2012, 05:23 PM)
I'm in Penang Island.
1. The "Chak!Chak!" sound, previously SC said is due to the spring at the clutch pedal. The did something to it and it appear to be fine right after service but the sound comes back after a week or so.
2. The shivering happen only at idling at "N" or my foot engage on the clutch  fully (equivalent of "free-gear"-ing). The most concerning to me is that whenever it happen, it seems like affecting the electrical load in which display on the radio would get dimmed a bit.
3. I think the "kruk kruk" noise that i have would be the same case as your "gluk.. gluk.. gluk" noise. The noise that you heard does it only happen at low rpm ~1.5K and very low speed, especially in heavy traffic jam? Or the "gluk... gluk... gluk..." noise would even been heard on a normal smooth driving?
*


1) I don't think the "Chak! Chak!" sound comes from the clutch pedal or the clutch for that matter. It seems to come from the engine itself. Sounds like the engine is choking... if you listen closely, you'll realize it happens in this order:
a) The idle starts dropping (for instance when you release clutch and start pressing accelerator)
b) The "chak!" sound occurs once
c) The idle rises to keep the engine from stalling
d) If you depress the clutch now, the RPM will shoot up a little, before settling down to it's normal idle RPM

If this is what you're experiencing, then it's definitely not the clutch spring.

2. The shivering is definitely the same idling problem I'm having. Idle not stable means the RPM drops below the idle. The fact that it's effecting the electrical system proves it has something to do with the RPM, because when the RPM goes down, the alternator slows down too... and the current being supplied to our electrical system goes down as well - thus your dimming radio.

3. Initially, the "kruk... kruk" sound only happened on uneven roads. But, as I mentioned earlier", it's already disappeared sad.gif
The "gluk... gluk" sound is audible at low speeds but if you manage to hit a stretch of soft tarmac & you turn your radio off & you have 3 adult passengers in your car, it's still there! And yes, it also occurs during smooth driving... as long as you're moving. Remember, the road is never "smooth" and it seems the sound follows the road undulations... hmm.gif

Fuh... lenguh tangan tongue.gif
GoldenHawk
post Nov 1 2012, 12:20 PM

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QUOTE(mat79 @ Nov 1 2012, 05:58 AM)
sorry, whether i miss sight on ur previous post@u didnt post. Either way, is not a prob anway. Abot scndary supplier, that is sop. Still the same from getrag coz in any situation, prtn still need to follow sop so that nobody will miss a thing on the probs coz issuance of the part still need to undergo prtn part n assembly@repairing still need prtn serivce coz getrag dont offer assembly@repairing job,just supplying part to proton. Andwhat i mentioned is if for probs, any rectification@update, need validation from oem, can simply usik2


Added on November 1, 2012, 6:01 amthere is no other supplier, just subsidiary or those who are incharge@representative from getrag.

Gk lai, what do u mean by pinging@knocking sound?its quite confusing. Can u eleborate more?Didnt u report it when u send to sc?


Added on November 1, 2012, 6:05 amn if prtn endorsed@engaged another supplier without getrag consent or through getrag, prtn will be in trouble. Everything is in black n white.


Added on November 1, 2012, 6:06 ambut on replacement car, thats prtn jurisdiction@fault, not related to getrag anyway.


Added on November 1, 2012, 7:18 amb4 people taking out my statement wrongly, i need to clear things up. When i said prtn jurisdicition, it doesnt mean their obligation coz in any car maker in the world, there is no legal contact for them to pay remuneration@provide replacement car @ any relevance matter to customer, its only part of their goodwil. The only thing provide under warranty is replacement of faulty part n its service for free under warranty.

Not defending proton, but thats how its work for any car maker too.

However, i still insist for proton to provide temporary relief car for mr golden hawk or any customer.
*
Yeah, I understand your point. But telling the customer "...yes, got car but have to wait forever..." is very misleading. If you're providing the service, then be fair & give us a definitive timeline-lah. Not good to keep people waiting indefinitely, right? Its like going to a restaurant, ordering your food & having the waiter tell you "...you might get your food anytime between the next 15 minutes to next week...". How-lah?! shakehead.gif

Anyway, I've sent an email (with all my documented evidence) to a whole list of people, including the ones rich8833 recommended. Wish me luck guys sad.gif
GoldenHawk
post Nov 1 2012, 03:37 PM

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QUOTE(maverickng @ Nov 1 2012, 03:25 PM)
honda brio not hybrid,is a 1.2L NA
maybe proton get it to change to 1.2L hybrid thumbup.gif
*

They should stop working on hybrids & look at range-extenders, like the REEV platform. This is the future - allowing development of more efficient generators & electric motors. Personally, I won't go for hybrids

Here's a nice EV drool.gif
http://www.teslamotors.com/models/features
GoldenHawk
post Nov 1 2012, 03:52 PM

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QUOTE(Cavino @ Nov 1 2012, 03:46 PM)
I'm not sure abt range extender for long term viability. Electricity generation still requires a huge amt of gas, coal and fuel currently. Defeats the purpose unless we realise huge capacity renewable energy source.
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Range extenders allow for development of efficient forms of power generation. The transfer of gas --> electricity --> motion is far more efficient than gas --> motion. Plus, as technology advances, who's to say we'll be running on fossil-fuel burning generators? hmm.gif Nuclear anyone? tongue.gif

I'm just saying, range extenders open a whole world of possibilities. Energy efficient generators, alternative generators, efficient motors, alternative power-trains.... can go on & on... smile.gif

Added: Suddenly remembered Dr. Emmett Brown's DeLorean running on garbage tongue.gif That's from Back To The Future for your kids out there... laugh.gif Damn! Feeling old already sad.gif

This post has been edited by GoldenHawk: Nov 1 2012, 03:54 PM

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