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 Hack the separation wall of 2 condo units, Is it do-able and legal?

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TSLimamila
post Aug 28 2012, 12:38 PM, updated 14y ago

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I intend to buy a neighbour condo directly besides my current unit. I plan to hack the inner wall separating my unit and the neighbour unit. My question here is if this is allowed by the authority and is it safe to do so? Anybody here has done this before? Please advise on your thoughts.
someone_stupid
post Aug 28 2012, 12:48 PM

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AFAIK when we asked about this, some managements will allow for a doorway, but not a whole wall though i think it depends on how the building was built and the management's say in this
TSLimamila
post Aug 28 2012, 01:07 PM

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QUOTE(someone_stupid @ Aug 28 2012, 12:48 PM)
AFAIK when we asked about this, some managements will allow for a doorway, but not a whole wall though i think it depends on how the building was built and the management's say in this
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I am guessing AFAIK means As Far As I Know?

What concern me is whether do I need to get the PE endorsement and approval from local council kind of stuff etc.. I doubt if they will find out if I proceed blindly, but I just want to know the legal way of doing things and the fees involved if I chose to do so:P
Nitrous
post Aug 28 2012, 02:18 PM

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A condo? Usually for high rise, the separating walls between units can be load bearing, thus it is not hackable at all. You risk undermining the structure of the entire building if you do so. If the wall is indeed load bearing, the upper units can collapse upon your unit since there are nothing holding the concrete slab at the top.
Best people to check with are the management office, but from my 2 previous condos that I have stayed in, none allow such hacking, i was not even allowed to move a door to another wall for an adjacent room.
Good luck
jerm
post Aug 30 2012, 10:02 AM

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it's possible if there are load bearing beams, and even then, advisable not to break down the entire wall...maybe a third of it
enriquelee
post Aug 30 2012, 01:32 PM

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Answer is simple.
Load bearing wall = can not hack
Non load bearing wall = can hack
So, find out which type of wall it is.
tehtmc
post Aug 30 2012, 06:34 PM

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Load bearing wall - concrete wall - cannot hack

Non-load bearing wall - brick wall - can hack

You'll be able to know whether it's brick or concrete by removing the plaster layer.
stanlykok
post Aug 30 2012, 09:59 PM

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Just try drill some hole randomly check out if is concrete / brick wall. You can feel something different during drilling...... If clay brick then you know what you can see...... brows.gif
enriquelee
post Sep 1 2012, 09:44 AM

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Non load bearing wall can be concrete wall as well.
Usually like this
Load bearing wall : Concrete with rebar
Non load bearing wall : Bricks/blocks/Concrete with BRC and etc.
Eleganz Concept
post Sep 1 2012, 10:08 AM

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There is one more thing to take note, even there may a brick wall, and can be hack, but most of the time, you may understand if condo not using load bearing wall, which mean they using beam to support, and high rise have bigger beam, so even u hacked the wall, but the beam is very low, is still may feel not hack batter then hack coz of the ceiling height are too low.
enriquelee
post Sep 1 2012, 11:25 AM

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Definitely beam is a structural member which can not be hacked.
member808
post Sep 1 2012, 04:03 PM

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QUOTE(stanlykok @ Aug 30 2012, 09:59 PM)
Just try drill some hole randomly check out if is concrete / brick wall. You can feel something different during drilling...... If clay brick then you know what you can see...... brows.gif
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not recommended. You are not supposed to expose the rebar in any way icon_idea.gif
enriquelee
post Sep 1 2012, 06:00 PM

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QUOTE(member808 @ Sep 1 2012, 04:03 PM)
not recommended. You are not supposed to expose the rebar in any way  icon_idea.gif
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+1
Neverever expose rebar for long period.
ricstc
post Sep 1 2012, 06:09 PM

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QUOTE(enriquelee @ Sep 1 2012, 06:00 PM)
+1
Neverever expose rebar for long period.
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+1 too.

Furthermore even if you are successful in breaking down part of the wall, what will the future value of both of these condo be when you want to sell it off in the future? Patch back the hole and sell separately is it?
stanlykok
post Sep 1 2012, 07:26 PM

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QUOTE(member808 @ Sep 1 2012, 04:03 PM)
not recommended. You are not supposed to expose the rebar in any way  icon_idea.gif
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rclxub.gif not understand.
Just drill small hole like hanging picture type (dia 6mm, depth 2inch) can expose the rebar??? doh.gif
enriquelee
post Sep 2 2012, 10:38 PM

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QUOTE(stanlykok @ Sep 1 2012, 07:26 PM)
rclxub.gif  not understand.
Just drill small hole like hanging picture type (dia 6mm, depth 2inch) can expose the rebar??? doh.gif
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Ofcause that will not.
The bottom line is, do not expose rebar. If really can not avoid then must treat the exposed bars.
TSLimamila
post Sep 3 2012, 05:32 PM

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QUOTE(ricstc @ Sep 1 2012, 06:09 PM)
+1 too.

Furthermore even if you are successful in breaking down part of the wall, what will the future value of both of these condo be when you want to sell it off in the future?  Patch back the hole and sell separately is it?
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Yes. patch back when situation arise. smile.gif
ricstc
post Sep 3 2012, 05:54 PM

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QUOTE(Limamila @ Sep 3 2012, 05:32 PM)
Yes. patch back when situation arise. smile.gif
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rclxub.gif hah easier said than done.

Anyway I foresee that you eventually won't be able to break the wall and will settle for using the front door of each of your apartment like you should.

Good luck
TSLimamila
post Sep 3 2012, 06:46 PM

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QUOTE(ricstc @ Sep 3 2012, 05:54 PM)
rclxub.gif  hah easier said than done.

Anyway I foresee that you eventually won't be able to break the wall and will settle for using the front door of each of your apartment like you should.

Good luck
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Really? just settle for a doorway also no chance? what are my chances from 0 to 100%?
ricstc
post Sep 3 2012, 10:10 PM

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QUOTE(Limamila @ Sep 3 2012, 06:46 PM)
Really? just settle for a doorway also no chance? what are my chances from 0 to 100%?
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Like some of the others mentioned, it really depends on your building management people. They will eventually have the final say - of course - you can still do it 'secretly' and not mention the doorway as your plans but interior renovation when you fill in the form for permission for your contractor to initiate work.
bteoh
post Sep 3 2012, 10:55 PM

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unless you want to bring the few hundreds residence down with you....otherwise, spent your money else where to get a bigger unit. Cheers
kelvin_ck1
post Sep 4 2012, 12:55 AM

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guys if you need to hack better get an engineer to point out which wall can be hacked which wall cannot be hacked .... although an experience contractor also can point out ...

concrete elements (columns/beams/walls) ... please do not disturb
brickwall (clay/sand) ... you are welcome to hack ...
enriquelee
post Sep 4 2012, 12:58 AM

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QUOTE(ricstc @ Sep 3 2012, 10:10 PM)
Like some of the others mentioned, it really depends on your building management people. They will eventually have the final say - of course - you can still do it 'secretly' and not mention the doorway as your plans but interior renovation when you fill in the form for permission for your contractor to initiate work.
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Highly not recommended to do it this way. If you disturb the structural element too much, you might cause the building collapses.
SUSendau02
post Sep 7 2012, 05:14 PM

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normally i would do a huge coring on the ceiling n it looks like a duplex. but i dunno whether its legal onot
TSLimamila
post Sep 7 2012, 05:38 PM

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QUOTE(bteoh @ Sep 3 2012, 10:55 PM)
unless you want to bring the few hundreds residence down with you....otherwise, spent your money else where to get a bigger unit. Cheers
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Looking at the scenario, i better scrap my idea of buying neighbouring unit cry.gif

Anyway, learn few construction terms in this thread especially about 'rebar' ...next time talk to contractor also can lagak a bit brows.gif
SUSadvocado
post Nov 5 2017, 11:33 PM

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QUOTE(enriquelee @ Sep 1 2012, 09:44 AM)
Non load bearing wall can be concrete wall as well.
Usually like this
Load bearing wall : Concrete with rebar
Non load bearing wall : Bricks/blocks/Concrete with BRC and etc.
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when we say a support wall cannot hack, does this mean small hacking for concealed wires also not allowed?

what about drilling a small hole to add a power socket right beside an existing socket?
enriquelee
post Nov 6 2017, 12:22 AM

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QUOTE(advocado @ Nov 5 2017, 11:33 PM)
when we say a support wall cannot hack, does this mean small hacking for concealed wires also not allowed?

what about drilling a small hole to add a power socket right beside an existing socket?
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Small hacking can, but must patch back with non shrink grout.
chooyang
post Nov 6 2017, 02:03 AM

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QUOTE(advocado @ Nov 5 2017, 11:33 PM)
when we say a support wall cannot hack, does this mean small hacking for concealed wires also not allowed?

what about drilling a small hole to add a power socket right beside an existing socket?
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small small sure can la...
as long as not potong / hack the steel bar inside if wall is consider as loading wall.
if u only hack the surface cement or just remove little cement of the loading wall will cause building runtuh..
then u really need to re-consider still staying at the condo or not ... rclxms.gif
SUSadvocado
post Nov 6 2017, 09:00 AM

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QUOTE(chooyang @ Nov 6 2017, 02:03 AM)
small small sure can la...
as long as not potong / hack the steel bar inside if wall is consider as loading wall.
if u only hack the surface cement or just remove little cement of the loading wall will cause building runtuh..
then u really need to re-consider still staying at the condo or not ...  rclxms.gif
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ok, but play safe plan a 2nd route which is more inconvenient.

those walls that are part of exterior wall of building, also can do minor hacking for wiring?

cause it's all hacking whether big or small was told cannot hack support walls but never mention big hack or small hack.

also is it ok to drill a small hole tru the support wall to route a wire pass it? any consideration of the hole location, like cannot too close to the wall/ceiling?

This post has been edited by advocado: Nov 6 2017, 09:02 AM
enriquelee
post Nov 6 2017, 05:49 PM

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QUOTE(advocado @ Nov 6 2017, 09:00 AM)
ok, but play safe plan a 2nd route which is more inconvenient.

those walls that are part of exterior wall of building, also can do minor hacking for wiring?

cause it's all hacking whether big or small was told cannot hack support walls but never mention big hack or small hack.

also is it ok to drill a small hole tru the support wall to route a wire pass it? any consideration of the hole location, like cannot too close to the wall/ceiling?
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If have 2nd route, better use it then.
SUSadvocado
post Nov 6 2017, 09:14 PM

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QUOTE(enriquelee @ Nov 6 2017, 05:49 PM)
If have 2nd route, better use it then.
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the 1st route would be ideal unless structural integrity is a concern, if by 2nd route will be longer route, more hacking and certain locations i could not put the sockets without using exposed routing.

what about drilling a small hole for a Cat6 cable to pass, is it ok? coz no other way other than drill a hole tru the window which is not ideal.
enriquelee
post Nov 6 2017, 10:30 PM

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QUOTE(advocado @ Nov 6 2017, 09:14 PM)
the 1st route would be ideal unless structural integrity is a concern, if by 2nd route will be longer route, more hacking and certain locations i could not put the sockets without using exposed routing.

what about drilling a small hole for a Cat6 cable to pass, is it ok? coz no other way other than drill a hole tru the window which is not ideal.
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For load bearing component, ideally better do not touch it.
But if really no choice then just do it. This is because the structural engineer always allow some safety factor when they do the design.

 

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