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English Clubs Liverpool FC- The Kop Talk 2012, Liverpool 0-2 Arsenal - 2nd defeat!

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Duke Red
post Sep 1 2012, 09:38 PM

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QUOTE(hyperyouth_firepower @ Sep 1 2012, 09:05 PM)
Ian Ayre did a wonderful job as a Managing Director when it comes to negotiating the non-football corporate deals.
I think it's a little unfair he's being lynched. Some don't realise he was our Commercial Director before this and helped dramatically increase the club's revenue stream He also negotiated the Standard Chartered deal, and I don't have to tell anyone that it's still one of the most lucrative shirt sponsorship deals in football. He has also negotiated several smaller commercial deals in Asia where he has a bunch of contacts. He was heavily involved in bringing the club here for the first time. Friends of mine have actually met him in person when he was living in Malaysia as CEO of Total Sports Asia. Maybe he isn't a good Managing Director but one thing's for sure. He was tasked with making money for the club and that he did. Why else would he have been promoted?

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Sep 1 2012, 09:38 PM
Duke Red
post Sep 2 2012, 12:14 AM

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QUOTE(markblurberry @ Sep 1 2012, 10:26 PM)
A season of merry go round?? Again Liverpool is leaving itself short of option in attack...the trouble is, this seems to be the case season after season... KD did it last season, by allowing Aquilani on loan, and declaring our squad is strong enough...but turn out, we have one of the thinnest squad in BPL....again history repeat itself with BR...Cant fathom why letgo of AC when we are lighweight in attack...of course there was rave review of A. Morgan...but he is no prodigy, and i am really let down after dateline day....and I feel BR is also let down - he expect '1 or 2' signings...so who is the guy responsible for making sure we secure the squad...in this case...Mr Ian Ayre....no thanks to commoli, director of football is somehow overrated at Liverpool.

I opine that thanks goodness we dont get Dempsey, he is 29, doesnt fit our policy and our play structure, and for 6 million, i'd rather get a promising new face of 21 or 22 yrs old i.e someone like Assaidi, kudos BR for being consistent.

I do hope that FSG is using this season to evaluate BR, and real investment on players will come next season. We did spent an awful lot last season on awful players...and i think 30 million this season is a dipstick to check out BR and his eye for players..so far I m impress with BR's signing..if asaidi turn out like Sterling or better, then at least we have a manager with keen eyes on talent...and i cant help but feels that KD really too gung ho with some of the signings last season...its disastrous...and having seen ghost, FSG is naturally afraid of the dark
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Carroll obviously doesn't feature in Rodger's plans and having loaned him to West Ham, we've trimmed our wage bill. Likely the reason why we've loaned him out.

How is Morgan not a prodigy? He's 18, scored 21 goals at youth level last season and has represented England at the U-17 World Cup. He certainly fits the definition of the term if you ask me.

I'm perplexed as to why you don't feel Dempsey would be a good signing? He's 29 but that's hardly retirement age. Tim Cahill was approaching his mid 30's when he was still scoring for Everton. Paul Scholes and Ryan Giggs are approaching 40. Nothing wrong with having some experience in the side, especially given how little he costs, considering he's a proven goal scorer and has been the top dog in Fulham for consecutive seasons. We've been signing young players and it would have been nice to have someone with bags of Premiership experience who will get you goals. What's the downside?
Duke Red
post Sep 2 2012, 07:16 AM

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QUOTE(led_zep_freak @ Sep 2 2012, 12:24 AM)
But scoring goals has been our problem since last season. We've let out Carroll on loan but fail to bring in a replacement. On average, we should notch at least 60 goals a season to realistically compete for top 4. Unless Suarez scores more than 20 this season, I find it hard to see where the goals would come from.

I agree that it's not a bad summer for us as Borini & Allen are great signings. Sahin, Assaidi and Yasil are exciting prospects as well. Though I can't help but think that someone like Dempsey or Sturridge would have made completed the lineup.

The only comfort I could get is that Arsenal and Spurs missed out their deadline targets too.  laugh.gif
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I'm just trying to look at it from a positive viewpoint. I'm a fan of Carroll's and really wanted to see him do well at the club. I also thought that Dempsey would be a safe and useful acquisition but que sera sera. Like I said earlier, I'd like to see the midfielders chip in when it comes to scoring.
Duke Red
post Sep 2 2012, 11:42 AM

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QUOTE(realshinjae @ Sep 2 2012, 08:03 AM)
Big guy had a good report from last night's match. Wishing him for a great recovery.

But I don't have a single clue how Carroll can be accustomed in BR's play. Or vice versa.
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Carroll is most effective when teams play direct football, something Allardyce's West Ham does. They were just pumping the ball into him and within the first 15 minutes, he was winning everything in the air. We play a more patient style of football where Carroll was expected to hold up the ball, push it back and move further up the park. I don't see Rodgers falling in love with him anytime soon.

QUOTE(dragontongue88 @ Sep 2 2012, 10:42 AM)
For me personally, I wasn't so disappointed about losing out on Dempsey, but more to the failure of the board to back Rodgers. You sack King Kenny, and put him in charge, then you refuse to give him an extra few millions to get a player in. The board and Ian Ayre had acted very unprofessionally imo, first they announce Dempsey has signed on FSG's own website, then after that still don't want to come out money to buy. I'm sure if they did come out a couple million extra, shirt sales in the USA would have recover back the extra few millions. Rodgers himself was quoted to say that he would be crazy to let Carroll go, then he let Carroll go expecting a signing that didn't came. I'm pretty sure Rodgers would be disappointed as well. Our upper management stinks of unprofessional-ism and incompetence at the moment. Heard some rumours that Ayre may be replaced, if true I say good riddance, heads should roll for making us a laughing stock after the deadline day debacle.

Carroll did well yesterday, wasn't too surprise, Allardyce team is famous for long balls and it will really suit Carroll. Hope he will have a wonderful season and then we can sell him at a higher price.

Our first team though is still quite strong, so I hope we can get a good result against Arsenal. Sahin will make his first start I'm sure. Let's hope we win today and Suarez stays injury free for the next 6 months at least.
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This is discerning indeed. Thing is Ian Ayre has done a lot for the club financially and the decision not to fund Dempsey's transfer may not have been his. If not for him we may not have secured the Standard Chartered deal. There's more going on upstairs than we know I suspect. I mean all this walk of a new stadium and suddenly it's all gone silent again? Could be Rodger's wanted to be his own man and assumed he had the power to sign whoever he wanted whilst the top brass may have seen Dempsey as nothing but an ageing footballer with no resale value. Cybermetrics at work again? Whatever it is, it stinks.
Duke Red
post Sep 2 2012, 12:42 PM

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Happy Birthday Bill Shankly - Gone But Never Forgotten.

If there was one man would could stare down the owners and put them in their places, it would have had to be the Shanks.
Duke Red
post Sep 2 2012, 03:13 PM

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Word is we're looking for a new MD and it remains to be seen if Ian Ayre will be given his old job back, where he was successful. Anyway, I'm dedicating all my posts today to the man who started it all.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Sep 2 2012, 03:18 PM


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Duke Red
post Sep 2 2012, 03:16 PM

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99 years old today

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Duke Red
post Sep 2 2012, 09:12 PM

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I have to say that the person who looks most lost today is Steven Gerrard. He's been taking too long to make decisions and is slowing us down. Oh mon capitan. Get back in the game.
Duke Red
post Sep 2 2012, 09:27 PM

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QUOTE(skyz @ Sep 2 2012, 09:20 PM)
Now see whether Brendan Rogers has got the balls to do so... Gerrard just still not adapting to our short passes play...
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It's why I've been saying that Gerrard should sit further back. He isn't the sort of player to play quick short passes, the way the rest of the team is playing. He wants the ball all the time and needs runners so he can make incisive passes. By being so far up the pitch, he's also being pressed into mistakes. I think Joe Allen looks better going forward that Stevie. If he continues to struggle and the score stays the same, he'll surely be subbed around the 60-65 minute mark. His only saving grace is that Borini is struggling as well and may be sacrificed before him.
Duke Red
post Sep 3 2012, 11:19 AM

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QUOTE(reehdus @ Sep 3 2012, 10:42 AM)
Actually I agree with some of the reasons brought up by the owners as well. We shouldn't be paying for stopgap solutions like Dempsey/Drog/Owen. These guys have at the most 2-3 years left in them, compared to the rest of the team. We have so much cover for both Carra and Gerrard because they're on their last legs. Similarly, we don't want an aging strike force, whether or not they are good. The philosophy Fenway has been showing is a good one, build from the ground up with young talent, and as much as it pains me that we're screwed atm, it's something worth looking at if you ask me.
We didn't buy carroll for 35M for him to have his touch in all our goals. We bought him to score them.
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Owen? Heaven forbid. I appreciate what he's done for us in the past but he's lost a lot of his pace and if I'm to be honest, he is half the player he was without it. He burst into the international scene at the tender age of 17 when at the 98 World Cup, he skipped past one of the best defenders in the world at the time, Roberto Ayala and Jose Chamot before slotting the ball into goal. He had blinding pace and even such renowned and experience defenders had problem coping. As injuries took it's toll however, he had to rely on other attributes and was never really the player he was before. I wouldn't even label him a stop-gap measure at the moment. I'd much rather play Adam Morgan and have him gain more experience. I would not put Michael Owen in the same category as players like Drogba and Dempsey who still play regular football and get the job done.

You also have to consider the type of player that they are. Drogs unlike Owen relies on power and not pace. The latter diminishes faster with age and injury than the former. In short, Drogba has a longer lifespan that someone like Owen does.

Now, on the issue of stop-gap players. We already have a bunch of relatively young players in today's side. If you look at the players who lined-up against Arsenal, we fielded a team with an average age of 25.

Pepe Reina (30), Glen Johnson (28), Luis Enrique (26), Daniel Agger (27), Martin Skrtel (27), Steven Gerrard (32), Joe Allen (22), Nuri Sahin (23), Fabio Borini (21), Luis Suarez (25), Raheem Sterling (17).

If you factor in the subs that came on i.e. Jonjo Shelvey (20), Stewart Downing (28), that figure drops to 23. Fact is we do have a pretty young squad. We had wanted to build a squad for the future and we have. Pepe Reina can play well into his 30's if he keeps himself fit. When Glen Johnson and Stevie G are eventually phased out, we have the likes of Jonjo Shelvey, Lucas, and Martin Kelly waiting in the wings. What I feel we need right now more than anything, is Champions League football. The financial windfall from just qualifying means we can spend on younger, more expensive players who can potentially yield more returns on investment in the future. We need proven players even if they are a little older than we'd like to take us into Europe's top competition. Ageing, proven players may not be good value (considering their age and price) but if they get us into the Champions League, their value increases based on how much we stand to gain just by qualifying, considering they are cheaper than a lot of young talent out there. If I were desperate for it, I'd much rather rely on older players who we know will have no problems adapting to English football than an unknown quantity, with a big reputation. I think it's what we need now given the expectation of the owners and our desperation to get back into the CPL.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Sep 3 2012, 11:21 AM
Duke Red
post Sep 3 2012, 11:34 AM

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I don't know what actually happened on the final day of the transfer window, I don't think any of us do. All we an offer is speculation. What I do know is this however, that we were made to look like fools. What makes it worse is that reports are now suggesting that Rodgers is having an open rift with FSG, and we all know that spells trouble as the latter is all about the bottom line. What makes us look more like idiots now isn't that we are considering bringing in Owen or Drogba to resolve our striker shortage, it's that I've read unconfirmed reports suggesting that Rodgers is considering recalling Carroll from his loan spell!

Things are obviously not harmonious in the board room and I shudder to think that Rodger's reign may be the shortest in our history as he doesn't strike me as the sort to back down. FSG had initially pledged to get behind their man but it doesn't look like they've done that, have they?
Duke Red
post Sep 3 2012, 11:54 AM

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QUOTE(sickx @ Sep 3 2012, 11:37 AM)
i thought Borini is an out and out striker. why he was played on the flank?
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He play on the left of an attacking trident, so I don't think it's accurate to say he was on the flank. Against Arsenal, he repeated came in-field to a more central position, dragging Gibbs with him, which mean that Podolski had to track Glen Johnson, who was out wide whenever we went forward. I would however like to see him swap positions with Suarez as I feel the latter is better with his feet and creating whilst Borini is the type of player whose first instinct isn't to create like Suarez's is, but rather, to finish.

QUOTE(reehdus @ Sep 3 2012, 11:37 AM)
if i'm not mistaken the reason for the Dempsey issue is that the price quoted to us was more expensive than the price quoted to other teams. That and the buy young sell later bla bla etc. broken record. We did do some good pieces of business though, i.e shipping out deadwood. My love for Carroll aside, I felt sad for the guy, and hopefully he'll slot right in to West Ham and get his confidence up. Adam, I don't know, he just never fit in.

Tbh I think we left it waaayy too late on deadline day to get a replacement. Now we're looking at players out of contract to do what we should've done on transfer day 1.
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We did indeed. I think the Joe Allen acquisition is proving out to be a real coup. He was superb last night in his role at the back. He never lost possession and his passing was spot on. At one point towards the end as we were pushing forward, he brought the ball all the way up to the edge of the Arsenal box and danced past 2-3 defenders who were trying to get the ball off him. He's still only 22 so we need to hold on to this one. I'm thinking teams will come sniffing at the end of the season and maybe even as early as January.

Snubbing Dempsey may have been down to principle but given the stakes involved, one could also have put it down to stubbornness. I don't really blame Fulham for quoting us higher especially after we basically assumed he was already one, telling the media he was on his way.

QUOTE(dillonyong @ Sep 3 2012, 11:37 AM)
Exactly. My fear is that there will be another staging protest against the Yanks soon if we lose few more matches. Just like the one against Tommy and Gigi of the previous regime.

Then, we will be in a further decline. Sigh.
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Well the good thing is we aren't in debt so the situation isn't as dire but you're right, it looks like only a matter of time before fans direct their frustration some place and FSG are the obvious targets. The fans are smart enough to know that Rodger's wasn't going to build a title challenging side over night.
Duke Red
post Sep 3 2012, 02:19 PM

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QUOTE(rushmode @ Sep 3 2012, 12:04 PM)
my thought on Borini as well. I felt Suarez is more suitable there while Borini in front. Suarez can drag the fullbacks to give our wingbacks space to supply the ball to center. However, since both our wing back is prone to attack this will make us vulnerable on counter attack as demonstrate by the Goons yesterday. The job to nullify this counter was supposed to be Lucas jobs but since he is out Allen have to take over. So far Allen is doing a good job there but I felt while his ball distribution is ace his tackling and ball winning is still behind Lucas. I also would like Stevie changes places with Allen because he has been poor on his current role so far. Make Gerard play deep because he still has that good vision and decision for that deadly through ball.
My thoughts exactly on Gerrard. I've always seen him dropping further back as age catches on. It's a natural progression as one is no longer physically able to outpace defenders, or when your reaction time increases. As you get older, you'll noticed that your reflexes get slower, if even by micro seconds. Players like Gullit, Matthaus or event Giggs, who were potent attacking threats in their prime, dropped further back as age caught on.

Rodger's system insists that players make quick, short passes which isn't a strong part of Stevie's game. He is always looking for the killer, incisive pass and he prefers to run with the ball. He simply is not going to be afforded that amount of time up front. Yesterday, he was once step behind each time he was played a short pass. He often took too long and lost possession or he was forced into turning the ball over. Until Lucas returns, Gerrard should fall back, adopting a role Xabi Alonso used to for us, allowing Allen to move further up the pitch.

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