er.. bottom line, only for "financial industry pros/full timers"?

Lulz @ -baby.

Xuzen

This post has been edited by xuzen: Aug 14 2012, 06:10 PM

well said

Yes, I would happily pay 1.5% AMF (and more) if the Fund Manager can return profits more than anyone else. Clue: Think of Hedge Fund managers.

Focusing on just the AMF is the wrong thing to do.

I don't know what's required for CUTA, but that was the wrong question to ask.

The operative word is the "IF". If the Fund manager return an alpha greater than benchmark fine and dandy to me as well.

However, the operative word is can the Fund manager consistently return an alpha greater than its benchmark? If yes, can its risk be lower than that of the benchmark consistently?

It was this question that prompted John Bogle the fund manager to set up this ultra low cost fund that utilizes passive investing.

Also, if you have read A random walk down Wall Street by Burton Malkiel, the author also come to the same conclusion.

I also have another book All About Index Fund by Richard Ferri in my personal library which also advocate low cost index fund for investor.

On a parting note, I agree that low AER is not the only parameter for choosing a fund, but it does play a part. For me, it plays a big part in choosing a fund. Why the heck you think I become an agent if not to reduce the cost of investment.

Also, by being CUTA, I have access to off-shore funds where the AER is much lower and zero sales charge.

I am first and foremost an investor, hence I think like an investor, not as an agent.

Xuzen.

This post has been edited by xuzen: Aug 14 2012, 09:54 PM

(1) There are no "IF"s as far as I can see in your question: "How does 0.1% annual management fee sound to you? Still want to pay 1.5% AMF? ".

(2) Random walks by who? Alpha what? I don't care about random walks by whoever. I don't care about costs either. I care about PROFITS to me. If you really need to know, I can dig up all sorts of funds with very low costs and LOSSES.

If you care too much about random walks, and about managements fees, and about all sorts of ratios without even understand what a simple figure, ie PROFIT mean, you are just barking up the wrong tree.

This post has been edited by howszat: Aug 14 2012, 10:05 PM

1. As far as I'm concerned, the PSMALL Cap is closed but my DDI is still on going, no problem.

2. DDI is direct debit instruction, you're right. But the benefit of 0.5% discount on service charge doesn't apply to all new fund. To me, DDI is just a way allowing me to invest minimal purchase consistently.

Ahem ahem.. pls allow me to serong a bit with an idea ar.

Since DDI doesn't stop if there's not enough $ in the funding a/c, just skipped for that month:
1. When U want to get in (ie. during low or "normal range" NAV of the fund), have enough in your funding a/c to DDI

2. When U don't want to get in (ie. during abnormally high NAV of the fund), remove your $ from the a/c for those few days - eg. if your DDI = 8th, then perhaps 7th till 9th, have less than DDI amount in your funding a/c, thus DDI does not happen for that month

Yar yar - snakey a bit but what to do, have to "play the game" based on their rules right? Creative a bit lor.
Please note your mileage may vary

Err.. U spamming or true?
Your previous posting: http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2007814/+2413

If there is such thing, can help capture with your phone's camera and share share?

The "IF" I said was in reference to your own writing at post #44 of this thread. He he he... sometimes in the internet, things get lost in translation.

To me, Profits is related to trading. You buy low, sell higher and the excess you call it Profit.

In investment, there are other parameter to consider such as the excess return (alpha) above the benchmark taking into consideration the function of co-relation between the fund volatility and that of the benchmark (aka beta).

I do understand the function of PROFIT, but the question is, do you?

Profit is a function of sale minus cost, and if you do not care about cost, you are missing a parameter in the equation. Since cost is positively co-related variable in the profit equation, you lower the cost, the better your profit.

Random who, alpha what... these are financial articles written by award winning authors and they usually have something worthwhile for investors to ponder upon.

Lastly, you want to show me some funds with low cost and losses? Go ahead, I am all ears. Give me also their benchmark return and their corresponding beta vs their benchmark so that I can make objective evaluation. Thank you.

Xuzen

IMHO, for us fund investors, we should be aware and take into consideration a fund's AER. But, if the fund has demonstrated respectable performance over a reasonably long timeframe (for me, 3-5 years track record would do), I would bear with its SLIGHTLY higher than its peers AER.

Guys, I need some advice from all the sifu here.

I bought my PM funds about 5 years ago and I am still making lost.
To get your advice, here are the fund that i invested.

PIADF, PFEDF, PCSF, PCIF

Here is the advice i got from my agent.

1. PIADF switch to PDSF
2. PFEDF leave it
3. All china fund (perform DDI)

I have to admit that I am a lazy person that I didn't want to monitor the share market and this is also the reason why i enter PM previously and invested my $ there. but after so many years, I am starting to lose confident in PM as I think putting the money in FD is even better. I know making lose is my own fault but now is not the time to blame PM or myself.

I hope someone can give me a good advice on what should I do. My objective is to break even in the shortest time so that i can take out all the money i invested previously and i want to do some other investment.

Hope to get some advice! TQVM

another good tactic... still learning new lessons from our master sifu.

i think there's lots of other factors involved too since this is a PM thread; smaller gains okay with me if the fund house is still standing 10-20 years later.

i) PIDF > PDSF

ii) Leave PIADF as it is.

iii) Switch the China Funds and PFEDF to Public Far East Properties and Resort Fund (PFEPRF) or into PIADF.

They are better performing fund without sacrificing your diversification much.

Xuzen

Hi Xuzen bro/sifu, thanks for ur advice.

Just to confirm the point i), is it you mean PIDF is better than PDSF?

Bit regret didn't do DDI for psmallcap..

some pretty good advices there...

----------------
And for clarity to other readers since there are so many funds in PM...
PIADF - Public Islamic Asia Dividend Fund
PFEDF - Public Far East Dividend Fund
PCSF - Public China Select Fund
PCIF - Public China Ittikal Fund

and PDSF - Public Dividend Select Fund.

Not sure which funds are making lost for you, but I suspect (depending on time of purchase and whether DDI or not) PIADF is a slight gain, PFEDF losing 15-20%, and both the China funds losing 20-25%.

All the 3 Dividend funds are classified as "moderate" funds, while the 2 China funds are "aggressive". PDSF is mainly "local" in that most of the its equity investments is in Malaysia.

PIDF (Public Islamic Dividend Fund), i concur too... one of the few funds that I held that were making gains.

i think PIOF is better.

Best to demonstrate with an example. Consider the following:

(1) Sale=100. Cost=10. Profit=100-10=90
(2) Sale=11. Cost=1. Profit=11-1=10

(2) has lower cost. (1) has higher profit.

You prefer (2) with lower cost?

Me - I prefer (1) with higher profit. I just look at profit of 90. I don't care about the cost of 1. Assuming, of course, other factors being equivalent.

Yes you are right.

My meaning of "consistently" doesn't include situations where bank account doesn't have enough cash.

Kinda hard to explain "detailed" in forum, via typing.

But your additional info helps the forumers a lot.

Thanks !!

Below are the lost that I am making at current stage based on what i got from my agent.

PIADF (0.16%)
PFEDF (21.18%)
PCSF (47.83%)
PCIF (36.35%)

I will go with the advice given by bro xuzen. But i just got another question, if i were to DDI let say RM 500 per month and still stick to the advice given by bro xuzen, will it help to break even faster? Or i should just put in one lump sum of may be RM 5K after switching my China fund to PFEPRF?

Really appreciate you guy's advice. Thanks.