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 Monk Discussion V2, guides, opinions and builds for Monk!

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gladfly
post Sep 24 2012, 11:51 AM

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QUOTE(LifeX @ Sep 24 2012, 11:33 AM)
Reflect Damage dont really hurt as LOH and LS enough to sustain back.
Need wear all 4 full set ar?
I already have 2 already. Enough liao. I bought the pants and helm, which have resistance. I didnt buy the belt because it doesnt really help much.

And 3rd and 4th set bonus dont really help much. For next two items, i might as well buy natalya chest and ring, expensive yes but worth the money as 2 item adds 7.0 CC.

Inna pants have movement,IAS, and CC.

My playstyle weck only, no need chase, dmg high enough to 1 hit KO, so wont use SW much UNLESS elites and tons of mobs, as if got 3-6 mobs, i use SW, i dont get to regen the amount of spirit used.
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Bro..Nats chest only for DH..smile.gif as its a cloak

Get Nats Boots or Helm.. I think the helm is better with CC smile.gif

gladfly
post Sep 24 2012, 12:34 PM

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QUOTE(LifeX @ Sep 24 2012, 12:23 PM)
Yaya boots, not chest. Hehe forgot its torso.

Helm cant cuz i use Inna edy.
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Ah...actually I find boot and helm best combo. As helm gives CC..
Boots and Ring then for you. But Ring is too freaking expensive though..sad.gif
gladfly
post Sep 24 2012, 02:50 PM

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QUOTE(M2K2Land @ Sep 24 2012, 02:20 PM)
Exactly Lol when fly away (knockback & freeze) Lol and I hate shielding too... Suddenly hp drop and out of serenity and straight Mati Katak~
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Plus the nightmare afflix...that one hit u..u just lari walk straight to Arcane....deadfrog!
gladfly
post Sep 26 2012, 03:35 PM

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QUOTE(yuhhaur @ Sep 26 2012, 03:20 PM)
the figure dps is merely a guide. I personally didn't take much attention to it. As long as I can ditch out 100k critical hit frequently (those yellow figures that pops out) and have as high LS/LoH as possible on high dps weapon.

Generally that number is basing on:
1. attack per second - sword is 1.4, dagger 1.5, Increase attack speed items adds on to the numbers.
2. critical hit chance (CC) & critical hit damage (CD), higher the better (and yes this is where it makes the numbers fly up to 100k @ 40%CC+400%CD)
3. item damage: for example your fist with 352-843 @ 1.54 spd willl yield (352+843)/1.54=920.3. If a same fist with 400-800 damage will yield 779 only.


Added on September 26, 2012, 3:22 pm6k armor with a shield is rather low. pump up your dex, str, armor. Should hit 7k++ with shield and 6k with dual wield.
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Yuhhaur has a point and I do agree with him except on the last point 3. For me say the example given by Yuhhaur, between a 352-843 weapon or 400-800 weapon, assuming same IAS, I will pick 400-800 for the simple reason of consistency. Min damage will be 400 rather than 352. So i prefer to have a higher minimum range damage anyday over a higher max damage. smile.gif
gladfly
post Sep 26 2012, 08:49 PM

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QUOTE(LifeX @ Sep 26 2012, 05:03 PM)
Lost my bid for Reflection. DH ppl damn alot of money.

Tonight maybe buy Witching Hour and Vile Ward.

Other then Reflection what ring is good for monk? We dont say rare ring.
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Stone of Jordan.. rclxms.gif cheap wat monk's one smile.gif Just find 1 with + lightning damage and + % to Fot = Profit!!!!
gladfly
post Sep 27 2012, 12:54 PM

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QUOTE(sexbomb @ Sep 27 2012, 12:51 AM)
my advice is not to buy any rings and amulets now. if you have a godly ring, sell them now before the new patch comes out.
the prices are gonna plummet down very soon due to the fact that everyone is gonna get the hellfire ring that will be acc bound which ditch out 6-7mil crits on proc and also there will be ilvl63 rings and amulets on 1.0.5

this post is worth a few hundred mil gold.
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IMHO..I think rings with armour/AR will go up in price since STI nerf and enchantress nerf. Post patch 1.05, with MP I think it would be harder for monks to tank.
gladfly
post Sep 27 2012, 07:10 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Sep 27 2012, 06:30 PM)
have you not read what blizz has said at all? you're going to be taking less damage despite the defensive skills nerfing, less than pre-defensive-skill nerf.

their purpose is to loosen the reliance/mandatory requirement of said defensive skills/passives

sometimes, if you just read a few times over just to grasp on the situation, you would have a clearer perspective on how things work
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Quaza...

I know about the 25% monster damage reduction. I was refering to MP level. As you go up in MP level, the damage is cranked up again, hence the inital nerf on NORMAL mobs is gone..yet the STI and Enchatress nerf stays.

Dont be so scarstic about the reading part mate... I did qualify on post by stating IMHO smile.gif
gladfly
post Sep 27 2012, 08:14 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Sep 27 2012, 07:36 PM)
the emphasis on MP is overall better quality of gear. damage requirement is heavily emphasized over your tanking capability as many have report that even with MP10, the dmg scaled wasnt much, while the monster health was easily few times of normal value.
(feel free to view the videos out there)

if a demonhunter with 150k damage spent few minutes on a WHITE MOB, and still couldn't even bring it to half health before dying, i think it speaks a lot on how much damage you need to do.

also, i believe you meant "clarify"? smile.gif
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I meant qualify...as its my opinion. I'm just stating that STI is a net nerf. The 25% reduction if I am not mistaken is gone by the time you reach MP3-4. Hence, if you chose to play monk in MP3-4, you essentially looking at playing with 50% reduction of STI in ACT 3 now. To many people its not a biggy if they are geared well, but average monk will feel the pain especially if you highly stacked on dex as the net loss from the armour buff will be bigger. Hence, people would have to re-gear, buy gears with Armour or strength to mitigate the loss in probably trading off some Dex, which in return loses the DPS. Its a catch 22. At the end of the day, monks will be really weak when people move to MP4 and above. No other class had it this bad, nerf on Barbs doesnt effect its survibility (only LoH on nandos procs lesser but its a constant value throught MP1-10) but IMHO monks will see the loss from STI progressvely get worst as you move to higher level ( I qualify again). A MP 10 barb will still get the same loH proc as in MP1. However, monks starts off with a net gain, but as the damage and health of monster scales higher in MP level, the value of STI at 50% diminishes. I hope I managed to clarify what I am trying to put through here.

Also, I think MP does not get you overall better gear. You get better chance of getting better gear since all will roll ilevel63 afflixes. You gain +MF/GF and Exp by 25% for each level you progress hence you will get more rare drops with minimal better chance of better rolls. The only plus thing about MP is that MF/GF is no longer capped, hence theoractically you can get max 550% MF/GF. You will get more rares (hence better chance of getting better stuff) but not guaranteed better items. Thats all...

gladfly
post Sep 28 2012, 12:17 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Sep 27 2012, 09:32 PM)
i was under the impression that one does not require qualifications to express an opinion laugh.gif
(or "attribute", if you're using that definition anyways, then again it's not like i h ave superb command of the English language)

moving on.
you cannot claim that it is a nerf to monk on higher MP because EVERYONE'S defensive skills/passives received a global nerf. The intention behind the nerf was made clear as day as blizzard wrote it themselves that it is to free up the mandatory requirement of said defensive skills/passive. (granted you can argue that majority of ranged classes such as wiz/dh/wd barely uses them, but thats more of a never ending issue between melees/ranged. to be a fair, melees get additional 30% flat out damage reduction)

hell, the idea of MP is to have the game harder (however more rewarding!) and if things are easily tanked/LoH or LS'ed away, what is the point? you'll then have the hardcores crying foul about how they were promised a challenge.
let me remind you that inferno was initially intended for the most hardcore of players. look at its state today, everyone can access and clear it with relative ease.
mp10 is simply to bring back its stature, albeit granting players the option to scale it themselves rather being outward globally enforced.

if you still aren't getting it:
no you should not need to re-gear, nor the nerf is intended for you to re-gear (OwE talks/discussions/blizz official statements anyone?)
if you can't deal with x level of MP, simply get better gear, that's all there is to is to this game, it isn't rocket science.

oh and that LoH opinion? why can't you get LoH just like barbs do?
as as per your words:

how does this NOT affect survivability if LoH is one of a key attribute to survival?
you're contradicting yourself man smile.gif

with all that said, you do at least got one thing right:
mp does not give better gear, merely a higher chance in getting them which indirectly have a higher chance in getting better quality gear smile.gif
HOWEVER.
no, mf/gf is capped.
the bonus from MP goes BEYOND the cap (like how NV do over paragon)
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Hehehe...an opinion is a qualified statement.

Anyways, lets digress its not an English class ....back to this disscusion.

Perhaps you missed my point. What I am trying to put through is this. STI nerf progressively gets worst as you move up the MP chain. Assuming a monk with 2000 dex, with the nerf, stands to lose 1000 Armor. Now a loss of 1000 Armour is at MP 1 is bearable since 25% reduction to Monster damage. However, when you reach MP3-4, the nerf starts to bite, as the loss of 1k Armour means your effective HP is reduced as the 25% reduction on MOnster damage is virtually gone by then. As you scale up, it gets worst..as the monster damage scales up the EHP continues to diminish unless one is to replace the loss of armor.

I dont get why you say with STI nerf you dont have to regear. Most monks that I know (perhaps all) ...rely on STI to buff the Armour. Hence when looking for an item, I rather pick an item with low armour but high Dex + AR+ Stacking resisit. The loss of armour is compensated from the high Dex by way of STI. With the nerf, most monks cant rely on STI to get the Armour buff, hence have to regear and get + Armour on some gears and lose some Dex in exchange. I agree with you that its all about gears for this game, hence most people will re-gear to compensate the loss of Armour.


On the point of LoH, ok its oranges and apples analogy but I dont see how I am contradicting myself. What I wanted to put accross is for the eg of the nerf on proc of nandos. Its constant..irrespective which MP level you are playing whereas the STI diminishes as you progress further in MP. Say after nerf in 1.05 a barb gets 100 life per tick from its LoH. Irrespective MP1 or MP10, the Barb WILL get 100 life per tick, period unlike STI which the effectiveness diminishes as you progress higher MP. Also, if you look at the PTR at the moment, monks are really struggling...they are stuck in the middle. Not high enough DPS to kill stuff faster and cant tank efficiently. Heck, seen any monks trying to do MP10? As it stands I think barbs are able to do it smile.gif the youtube post on the Hellfire Ring was a barb.

On MF/GF did you see the part where I mentioned 550%?=300% +250% from MP bonus


gladfly
post Sep 28 2012, 12:35 PM

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QUOTE(yuhhaur @ Sep 28 2012, 12:24 PM)
I think every monk will suffer from the STI nerf. How many of us are getting 1k STR + 2k armor from equipment? I tried this way but it sacrificing my DEX so much that it affect the effect of the DEX on attacking side.

NOTE: +2k armor means on average your 10pieces gear had to have +200 on average. Not an easy choice as to compensate others losses.

I think we'll be seeing more MoE+HT in higher MP levels.
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Thats my point exactly. The Nerf on STI actually effects monk much more than what was initially thought. Monks now considered pariah class liao.

Want to survive? lower your dex get Armor. But then...you take forever to kill the monster. Catch 22....
gladfly
post Sep 28 2012, 11:52 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Sep 28 2012, 06:10 PM)
i would beg to differ that you were missing my point instead.
my point is mainly simple:
- it is not so bad to monks as you may think
- other classes faces the nerf too
- you will have worse things to worry about other than survival

ill pick WD/wiz as examples:

the change to energy armor means that wizards are getting shafted higher in overall damage reduction compared to monk. do take note on the 1:10 ratio, and having both armor/resistance reduction (better geared wiz all uses prismatic, not force armor) will reduce your overall dmg reduction greatly.

now for WD it is a bit tricky, (do correct me if i am wrong on the dmg reduction being multiplicative or additive, since WD are like so friggin rare and i dont even play one myself) if you are actually decently geared in armor and resistance, you will be getting a huge defensive nerf. however if you're a pure glass cannon that dies from basically anything in a hit, then not so much effect to you anyways.

now comparing to our fellow melee brother the barbarian:
i'll put it to you that barbarians have absolutely NO PROBLEM in gaining armor, they however may have some difficulty in gaining resistance considering that they do not have OwE and balancing a secondary resistance throughout all your gear pieces can be a difficult task (however rewarding if you can pull it off anyways)
and guess what:

welp! too bad, they now have even worse problems in gaining resistance now!

but you see, i firmly believe no one that's prepared to play in higher MP levels are gonna cry about defensive skills/passive change. because they are going to have worse problems in dispatching mobs. i don't know about you, unless your idea of wailing at a WHITE MOB for 5-10mins is your idea of fun, i am pretty certain that the huge majority of the community would want nothing of that sort.

if you get my whole point in the first place, you would immediately understand why most monk would not bother to re-gear and continue their pursuit in getting higher dps. (or overall higher quality gear)

on LS/LoH/healing, you're simply mixing things up. by your logic, even barbs/wiz are hit as bad as monks considering their nerf "scales" as MP goes up (again, by your logic)
the only class that are probably not affected by this are DH, however even blizz acknowledges that their class are very binary and are being look at (either you are godlike or you die even if someone as much as sneezes at a DH) and if you've seen the video of that 150k dmg DH (without SS) wailing at a white mob in mp10, i think the DH would have better concerns on how to buff dps over trying how to survive

on GF/MF bonus, it is only assuming if you are paragon 100 which im sure majority of us are still a long way to go in that. which comes down to stacking mf/gf gear, and doing that in mp levels is... kinda suicidal i would think.
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Alrite, I'll cut this short as the replies seems to get longer.

For your comparison between wiz/WD, it doesnt cut it. (They are different class i.e ranged). They were not supposed to tank in the first place, period. The nerf they are getting is exactly what happened to the DH tank (RIP..except builds like Shin which needs a Nat's legacy)

Lets just compare barbs and monks (melee) which is more relevant. You pointed out Warcry nerf (expected) but you taking it on the surface. I'm going to be lazy and just retort by cutting and pasting an enlightning post from battlenet.:-

I had this discussion with a mate a while back
re monk vs barb defensively before the defensive nerfs
AR = All Resist
CR = Chosen Resist {poison, arcane, fire, etc}
Dex + StI (monk) = Str (barb) - dodge
(AR + AR/2 {of CR} OR CR + CR/2 {of AR}) + OwE = Warcry + IMPUNITY (resist wise)
Therefore:Barb:Warcry(Impunity) + AR gears - 20% Armor= Monk:OwEStIAR + AR/2{CR} gears - eg 70 res all + 35 poison res- Dodge gained from Dex.
So say a barb gearing normally, {str/vit/all res} plus 1 active = a monk gearing for OwE {dex/vit/all res/chosen res} + 2 passives.
So in order to factor in the 20% bonus in armor, a monk needs to use MoE + Hard Target. The only advantage here is monk getting a whole bunch of dodge chances.
That's 1 active, 2 passives and selective gearing for greater dodge chances vs a barb.
Now, I know warcry impunity got shafted down to +20% All Res, but the utility of this one skill is still massive.

If you follow the computation, you will know why Warcry is still viable even with the 20% nerf.

Lastly, to be honest I wouldn't have bothered to reply but for the snide remark asking me to read up. Guess I probably did read up...but just a little I guess
gladfly
post Sep 29 2012, 04:28 AM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Sep 29 2012, 03:30 AM)
So your retort is that warcry is still viable; So are you saying STI is no longer viable?

personally, i think you really need to read up maybe a little more, more so on blizzard's intention. if you still think it is too much of a nerf, perhaps you can go cry at the official forums than here. i don't think blizz reads LYN, and your intentions would be in vain (assuming your intentions are good)


Added on September 29, 2012, 3:31 am

very interested, but i don't have much, so too bad for me.
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I'll leave at that Quaza. I know when the cows come home...smile.gif You answered my post with a question...lol

You can have the last word as usual..isnt it obvious. smile.gif
gladfly
post Oct 2 2012, 03:24 PM

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QUOTE(LifeX @ Oct 2 2012, 01:47 PM)
Would advise you to get a Damage Range on your Amulet, and Rings.

Get either Inna Belt or Inna Pants ( Pants would be better for Movement Speed, and Crit Chance, 2nd set grants you 130 dex since your have Inna Chest )

Got extra money, get a better boots. With set of Sage only grants you 35+ on Dex, if you have Inna Pants you dont need Movement Speed on Boots.

Try getting Arcane + All Resist + Higher Dex. For your other parts, try getting CC or CD, or IAS.

Resistant get around 500-600ish will be fine, providing you have enough dps and enough HP.

You can check my profile below, i have only 504 Resist and i could have 26K HP if i put a 17% Life Gem on Helm, but need exp now till PUSH Paragon to 50 before i change back.

My Profile.


Added on October 2, 2012, 1:56 pm

Wah, bro...with your stats, can beat Inferno Diablo on previous patch or now? Or Co-Op?

You need to upgrade mostly everything. Whats your budget? As new patch might be out, try upgrading everything but not your Amulet n Ring, new patch will have iLvL63 which will roll much higher stats.

I would suggest up your Pants, Chest, Boots and Helm 1st.

Others hold on 1st as it will be expensive.
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Yeah. I totally agree on those who is thinking of changing rings and Amulets. Damage range is actually very viable if comnpared than main stats. Simple reason that only jewelry gives these stats. Get 1 with 30-70 damage range, some Vit, CC/AS/CD and you can see your DPS increase a lot. I kinda stumble into it, wehn I replaced my rings with a 36-72 ring, outguns my 120 Dex ring easily.
one of my
gladfly
post Oct 2 2012, 04:06 PM

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QUOTE(sexbomb @ Oct 2 2012, 03:53 PM)
im still lacking on attack speed =.= currently only on 1.8x before pants and gloves
dunno can touch 2.00 or not
i heard (didnt read) that 105 will not affect legendaries. nat rings wont be lvl63. so those with uber stats or trifecta ones are still gonna cost a bomb!
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Blizzard is looking into it. I think a blue posted that rare rings and amulets will roll 63, hence it would be weird that the set/lagendaries will only to 62. It will be back to 1.03 again when rare> lagendaries. I think they will again shift the goal post again and "New" set/lagendaries will be allowed to roll to 63. Hence, I do think that the current rings and ammy will lose its shine once patch 1.05 kicks in. Still I think the difference will be negligible ie those current trifecta rings will still cost a lot, but it wont be the end game class once the ilevel 63 rings shows up. As it is PTR we ahve 80% CD ammies..which outguns any Ammy currently at 1.04.
gladfly
post Oct 2 2012, 05:07 PM

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QUOTE(LifeX @ Oct 2 2012, 04:56 PM)
Haha 1.0.4. Guess as much.
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The best fix ever for 1.04. Killed the regen/full life reset of the elites. Such a pain during 1.03 when you slowly chipped them to 1/8 of their life but you died.....and viola...reset to full health. Pure brick wall when you face a insane afflix pack smile.gif
gladfly
post Oct 3 2012, 02:27 PM

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QUOTE(ALeUNe @ Oct 3 2012, 01:46 PM)
Yup, the one you got is godly.
With high AR.
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Yalor...its really the bane of Inna's....low AR for Melee class...really???. What the heck were Blizzard thinking..? IK > Inna.

Favouritism/ bias numbskulls. And who the heck needs 0.33 spirit regen? Ptuuuiiiiiii
gladfly
post Oct 4 2012, 02:55 PM

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QUOTE(cowithgun @ Oct 4 2012, 02:49 PM)
i miss seeing "green" drop...
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Lol...yeah man..."green" lost in the woods liao.....patch 1.04 only 1 green so far..sad.gif
gladfly
post Oct 5 2012, 03:12 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Oct 5 2012, 01:35 PM)
dunno apa itu, only see it drop from AH


Added on October 5, 2012, 1:44 pm

same as you, pre ordered CE and playing since closed / open beta and eventually day.... 2/3 ( because lol CE shipment)
i did play a wiz (because rofl monks in inferno), however until today also havent 60 lol

i agree with 1 and 3, not so much 2
1) everyone is using shitty f***ing FoT/SW, and shitty stupid buffs
3) its sad they need to put a damn decimal on something so trivial? id bet people would complain less if it's 1/sec

now for 2:
its because of 1, STI is nerfed. its too much of a mandatory passive.
enchantress on the other hand, lets just say shes a mandatory follower and thats 1 of the reason.
id like to kinda switch to lyndon once a while because hes funny and would make grinding paragons a bit less of a chore but then again doing so would be stupid because he's practically useless.
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Lol..butting in. First of yeah Lydon is funny....hell lot better than Kormac. He is good for a range player if you give him a high percentage Windforce, he can really keep mobs at bay with his chill/knockback.

As for the STI point, sorry to revive it ..and not intending to repeat myself..but even with the nerf ...MONKS will still use it irrregardless.Reason is other passive is just too shitty....so the build diversity?? At least give an alternative to STI..buff other passives..especially with a offensive passive. The current offensive passive is meeeehhh...unless you got octopus hands ..tongue.gif or risk whacking your keyboard to pieces..lol

gladfly
post Oct 5 2012, 04:12 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Oct 5 2012, 03:37 PM)
giving a legendary to a follower to make him viable is hardly "viable" at all.

you can just say giving green lantern/stormshield etc to kormac makes him the ultimate tank for rangers, or legendary 2 handers with high ass dps and int so that eirena can 1 shot mobs in inferno (not that it wasnt possible pre 1.0.4 before they buff white mobs' health, and im sure people can easily do it with enough gear to eirena)
why bother knockback when eirena can 1 shot people and provide you with uber armor buff right?

they said they are going changing it, just not yet. i'll tell you straight up i'll still use STI until i see an offensive alternative (which as you said, none yet).
crying foul because they merely took the first step to promote more diversity is just too much of a whiner if you ask me. i mean, yeah sure it sucks to get nerf, however as i said it before and i'll say it again: what does crying about it (especially on LYN) do? hell, not to mention crying for the wrong purpose.

if you're gonna harp on monk viability, go harp on how useless other passives are, and provide constructive feedbacks about it. maybe it would actually not annoy me and post offensive replies.
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Heh...well a Windforce is actually cheap (you can get a decent one for about 500k)..I got mine after I sold a 49% knock back and made some gain. reason why Lydon is preferable is for the 3% CC increase. I dual Hxbow, so I dont need more ASI. As a DH, CC is gold smile.gif if you drop SS. Also, I wouldnt rely on eirina when her armour buff is going to be reduced to 5% next patch. Aint that uber anymore...smile.gif

Well, on the STI point and I am not trying to take this further but to me its wrong to take away something and not provoding alternatives. Armour is essential to a melee class, if you are going to take away that, at least offer an alternative, which is exactly what happened to Barbs (nerf and buff others). Sad to see Blizzrd is not offering any alternatives in respect of the nerf, yet gave the impression that the nerf is warranted in so far for buld diversity.If that is so, then they should nerf Archery as well, since 100% of DH is using it.....weird huh..build diversity? Again, I with you on offensive passive, which is lacking.
gladfly
post Oct 9 2012, 02:30 PM

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QUOTE(Wazzzap @ Oct 9 2012, 02:03 PM)
LMAO LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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Lol..can ...monk can still be the best tanker...

just load up 2.k LoH, 5.6% LS, 800 Regen...and stack AR + Armor + Vit.

DPS....maybe 9k? But still the immortal tanker..smile.gif

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