mumeichan I think you should consistently use 'wa' for は and not 'ha' coz its used as a grammatical particle. Obviously your japanese is much better than mine , but I just thought that it could be confusing for beginners.


BTW, anyone know where I can get Genki books other than online? Kinokuniya doesn't seem to have them

Is there an advantage taking 2 JLPT tests? or is it just because if you fail level 1, you can at least pass level 2?

I use A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar

But I think that sentence mining is a better way to study than just to read a grammar book

This post has been edited by airiholic: Aug 21 2009, 12:15 AM

there's also a great online source called Tae Kim's guide to Japanese Grammar. Its free and covers pretty much everything a beginner needs to know about japanese grammar

I learned kanji from scratch with James Heisig's Remembering the Kanji. This method teaches you the just meaning of the kanji without the readings. It shows you how complex kanji can be broken down into simple radicals. I learned more than 2000 kanji with this method and can remember more than 1500 kanji by heart (I'm not chinese btw)

This method has as many critics and admirers, so try it out for yourself and find out if it works for you or not.

If you already know the meaning of the kanji and would like to know the readings, just get yourself a good kanji dictionary like Kodansha's Kanji Learner's Dictionary or the 2001 Kanji Odyssey series. Both of them available at Kino


You can easily learn hiragana and katakana in 1 week. By then you can already read simple children's story books

This post has been edited by airiholic: Feb 17 2011, 01:37 AM

^
1. There's no particular rule for that. In your example, most of the readings would be せつ. You just need to memorize those read as ぜつ　(very rare)

2. Its impossible to spell gaksei in Japanese. Some people just talk fast

3. Yes, you need to remember those

It's 4 o'clock in the morning. I can't sleep, so I'll write something quite long. Hopefully it will be useful

From the posts I've read, most people learn Japanese from Anime. Although it's a source to pickup some Japanese, I would rank it somewhere near the bottom when it comes to picking up Japanese by listening. My list would be:

1. Variety shows
2. Podcasts
3. Documentaries/TV news
4. Doramas
5. Audio books/radio news
6. Anime
[unranked] songs


I'll go over them one by one, starting from the bottom.

Songs
Depending on your level, songs can be a very good or bad way to learn Japanese. Translations of songs are normally done verse by verse or 2 lines at a time rather than line by line. If you're a beginner, looking at the translation and trying to match the english phrases to the japanese phrases will be confusing and frustrating. Not to mention you'll probably end up matching the wrong phrases. If your Japanese is decent, songs can be a great way to expand your vocabulary, improve listening and expose you to creative writing in Japanese.

Anime
Before you fanboys get mad at me, learning Japanese by watching anime does expose you to the language. And if you learn by doing something you enjoy, you're more likely to stick to it. So why do I rank anime so low? For one, the Japanese you listen to in anime isn't the same as the one you'll encounter in real life. You don't need to know 10 different ways to say "I'm going to kill you" or words like テメエ(you muthafxxxxr!) unless you plan to go to Japan and be a delinquent. Knowing 海賊王に俺はなる (I'm going to become the pirate king) won't impress the girls either.

Audio books/radio news
This is a great way to improve your listening skills. The narration is done by professionals with very clear pronunciation. Here are some free audio books with text http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum...6241&PN=1&TPN=1

Doramas
The same benefits of audio books but with visuals. Because you can 'watch' it, you'll be able to understand better what is being said. There are also other benefits such as you can read stuff like road signs, shop signs, food packages or whatever pops up on the screen in the dorama, this helps with your reading and vocabulary. Not to mention you can gawk at your favourite actors/actresses. You'll also be able to learn a lot about Japanese culture and their way of life. Doramas have an advantage over anime in the sense that the language used in doramas are more similar to the one you'll encounter in real life.

Documentaries/TV news
Same benefits with audiobooks + doramas. Narration is done by professionals and you can actually watch it, rather than just listen. They cover different events happening in different areas and sometimes have interviews with different people. So you can listen to how different people from different areas with different social status talk. But most importantly, you get to listen to people talking naturally,which is the very reason I put podcasts and variety shows high on the list.

Podcasts
The keyword here is unscripted, natural speech. Something that documentaries have little of and the previous methods have none of. By podcasts, I don't mean a person reading off a script, that would be categorized under audio books. What I mean by podcasts is people talking to each other just as they would in real life. They talk at a natural speed, using regular words they would use everyday and their pronunciation is similar to the average Joe (or Takeshi) Podcasts can range from a wide range of topics from science, to video games, to simple ones designed for beginner Japanese learners. The weirdest one I've listened to was from TBS Radio where 3 guys talking about masturbation

Personally, the best thing I've done to improve my Japanese is listening to podcasts on the bus on my way to work everyday. Within a few months, I went from being able to only say 私は。。。です or 私は。。。をします to having a real conversation with my Japanese friend when she visited. By real conversation I don't mean just お元気ですか？I mean asking about her family, the situation in Japan etc (it was almost a year since the tsunami) Obviously I did make some mistakes but it was a massive improvement from my pre-podcast days.

Variety shows
The benefits of podcast + visuals. Japanese variety shows are the best in the world. They can make you laugh, they can make you cry, and they can make you go "WTF just happened?" Obviously with visuals, you better understand what's going on. Just like podcasts, they speak naturally, and unscripted (to an extent) Plus, they have text that appear on the screen. So if they're talking too fast and you can't hear what they're saying, you can simply read the text. It's a great way to improve you listening and increase your vocabulary while enjoying yourself.

If you're into idols, there are shows like AKBingo(AKB48), Idoling!!!(Idoling!!!) and Nozibingo(Nogizaka46). If you're into pretty boys, you can watch "vs Arashi"
on 8TV every Sunday. If you want to have a good laugh, you can watch Gaki no Tsukai (ガキの使い) or Lincoln(リンカーン) If you want to watch awesome athletes competing against each other, there are shows like "Sasuke" and "Pro Sportsman No1"(最強の男は誰だ!壮絶筋肉バトル!!スポーツマンNo.1決定戦) There's always a show that suits you.

Yes it's used for words borrowed from from foreign languages it's also used for Japanese words as well. Some other uses of katakana

1. words someone just blurts out in anger, surprise, wonder etc. eg:マジ? (really?) ワァ！(Waa! [in amazement]) バカ!you all probably know what this means.

2. Onomatopoeia. ニャンニャン、ワンワン、ブーブー (meow, woof, oink respectively) other sounds such as ガオ(roar) ピカピカ(sparkle. How Pikachu got it's name)ワクワク(excitement)

3. Replacement for normal words that have difficult kanji.ゴミ(塵,garbage) アリ(蟻,ant) ガン(癌,cancer)

4. Transliteration for company names. セイコー(From 精工舎) トヨタ(豊田)

5. Words that have their own kanji, but borrowed from Chinese words. ウーロン茶 (Oolong tea.烏龍茶) ラーメン(ramen.拉麺)

4. Slang/accent. テメエ(you, [gangster]) コイツ(this guy, [gangster]) コラ(something a gangster would say at the end of sentences to his victim) ボブトモ-シマス。ヨロシクオネガイシマス (I'm Bob. Yoroshiku onegaishimasu. Written in katakana to indicate that he's a gaijin and speaks with a foreign accent)

5. Technical/Scientific terms. In a technical environment, 'people' would be written as ヒト rather than 人

^
My post was focused towards learning by listening. In learning languages, of course reading would be important

You can check out http://www.voiceblog.jp or http://podcaster.jp
If you have some money, you can subscribe to http://www.japanesepod101.com. It's a really good resource for beginner - lower intermediate learners.

I can't help you choose which podcast to listen to. That depends on your current level and interest.

Japanese podcasts on iTunes
1.Open iTunes, go to iTunes store

2.Scroll all the way down, click on the flag icon


3.Under Asia Pacific, choose 日本

4.BOOM!! The contents of iTunes Store are in Japanese. This doesn't change your iTunes language to Japanese (that is done through "settings"). It only changes the contents of iTunes Store


5.Click on 'podcasts', choose a podcast and start listening.

Tip:
On the iTunes Top 10 podcast ranking, almost all of them are by TBS Radio. It's safe to say that they produce quality podcasts
There are also podcasts for Japanese people learning English. You can try 'reverse learning'
Don't worry if you don't understand everything. The main point is exposing yourself to natural speech.
Don't try to look for the 'perfect' podcast. If you can't decide, just listen to anything


** 12/03/14 Edit **

Came across this useful video on LifeHacker


Based on my experience, this explains why I learned more Japanese in 1 year compared to 5 years of learning Arabic

This post has been edited by airiholic: Mar 12 2014, 11:54 AM

It's definitely possible to self study japanese. I started out self studying with genki textbooks. The only classes I took were twice a week, which I attended for 2 weeks before I decided that I could learn much faster on my own. Of course there would be times where you need to ask questions, that's what the internet is for

Like you, I too work odd hours. Apart from the 2 week class I took, the rest of my studying has been self study

How's your japanese? (other than not knowing kanji?) Not to discourage you or anything but if you're starting at N5 and trying to pass N2 in 1 year you're gonna have to quit your job/studies and do nothing but study japanese. And as xenoxi mentioned, Kinokuniya is the place to go

Hiragana for japanese words and sentences.


Katakana
-is for words taken from foreign languages.

-When the entire sentence is katakana, could be to indicate that the speaker speaks japanese with a foreign accent

-onomatopoeia

-When refering to scientific/technical terms

-sometimes to give a 'friendly' feeling.　for example, zoos sometimes write the animals name in katakana so kids can read them. instead of 白熊 you might find シロクマ

WARNING:LONG POST

I'd like to share how I managed to win a 2 week study trip SPONSORED by the Japan foundation. Sponsored flight ticket, accomodation and food. Any money you bring there will be used for entertainment . NOTE: I haven't taken the JLPT nor attended any Japanese classes

Each year, the Japan Foundation of Kuala Lumpur hosts a japanese speech competition (日本語弁論大会) When? Follow the JFKL facebook page. Have an idea on what you want to talk about. Something you're passionate about or skilled at. Perhaps about your own experience, or your dreams. Anything at all. Write the rough draft of your script in your native language.

Go to lang-8 and create an account and create a post. translate your script to japanese to the best of your ability. For each post, translate ONLY ONE OR TWO paragraph(s). Make sure to write the include the english script as well in case your japanese is too difficult to understand, japanese people can see what you're trying to say by reading the english text.

This was my the first part of my initial script


Japanese users will then correct your japanese sentence by sentence. Copy the correct sentences and paste it in a google doc. YES, GOOGLE DOCS. Not word. You'll see why later. Keep posting paragraph by paragraph until you finish your script. again, copy and paste the correct sentences to the google doc.

By now, you should have a complete script in japanese. Although the sentences are correct grammatically, it might not sound natural since we only copy pasted the sentences, which might have been corrected by different users. So how do we make the sentences more natural?

If you have a japanese friend on skype (luckily,I do) CALL (not chat) him and send him the url of the google doc. Ask him to adjust the sentences so it seems more natural and fluid. as he tells you what to change, you can make the changes on the google doc and he will see those adjustments being made in real time. It's like having a native japanese speaker at your side correcting your script!

If you don't have japanese friends on skype, copy and paste the japanes translated script from the google doc into a lang-8 post. Mention that you want it to be corrected so it would sound natural.

After having my text corrected in real time through skype and google docs, my lame script I wrote previously, turned into this masterpiece


Once you have an awesome script, try reading it out loud. There will be a time limit of 5 minutes (if I'm not mistaken) so see if you can finish the script within 5 minutes. If it's too long, edit unecessary parts out. If its too short, you can read it slower or add some parts.

If you can, get a japanese friend to read the script while you record him. Keep the recording on your phone and listen to it constantly. If you don't have a japanese friend, record yourself reading it. Keep practicing until you memorize the script. Try to minimize any foreign accent.

During the competition, after your speech, you will be given some questions regarding your speech. My speech was titled 'Honda Soichiro and the Power of Dreams' and the 1st question I was given was 'あなたは夢がありますか？' Don't make the same mistake I did and answer with a simple 'はい、あります' Instead, I should've answered 'はい、あります。私の夢は。。。。' I found out later that although my speech was the best, I lost valuable points because of my short answers. Moral: answer the questions in full sentences.

After you step off the stage, don't worry. nothing you do after will change the results. If you manage to make top 3, congrats. You're going to Japan. if not, you can always try again next year.

By 14AW005 <--my id for the study trip

This post has been edited by airiholic: Jan 12 2016, 09:53 PM

あの男性はボブです。That guy is Bob.

There's no rule to when you should use kanji. You can write in full hiragana and it's still fine. Certain well known kanjis are written in kanji. Since pretty much the entire japanese population can read 男性, it is written that way instead of だんせい

Greetings are usually written in hiragana instead of kanji。こんにちは instead of 今日は
expressive terms like かわいい/カワイイ are written in kana to express how cute it is . 可愛い seems more serious
some companies use katakana for their name; トヨタinstead of 豊田. Some use kanji; 三菱　(mitsubishi)

The more you familiarize yourself with japanese, the more you'll discover the small nuances of the language. It's something you'll learn faster when you discover it for yourself

From what I understand, her looks are changing. Not in the sense that her face changed from najib to rosmah while looking at the mirror. But her face is changing over time. Perhaps she was young and now she's old. Perhaps she was healthy and now she's sick. Perhaps she was pretty and now she's ugly. Depending on context. Just my 2円



I'm in the middle of creating a kanji course for beginners. Will probably take a month or 2 to complete. When it's complete, I'd like to ask for your feedback, お願いします Turns out that it's taking too much of my time. Cancelled

This post has been edited by airiholic: May 7 2016, 02:23 PM

I'm just wondering if any of you use flashcard apps to help with studying? I would say it's the single most useful tool in my studies but I'm really surprised by how so few people know about this

No age limit. You'll compete with people of different levels. Just because they passed N1, doesn't mean they speak well. Similar like how people get A in English, but they speak like crap. I had several coursemates in japan who passed N1. Their speaking ability was horrible

Have you guys even tried flashcard software? I think it will completely change the way you study. remember more, better, faster. The only thing is creating decks is a bit of a hassle

To each his own, I guess.
the software is can be used to memorize anything. If you want to remember vocab, create vocab decks. If you want to remember sentence structure, create sentence structure decks and so on.

I'm not really into reading. I'm more into watching/listening. my favorite method would be podcasts and variety shows

by jisho, do you mean old school, paper jisho?

courses aren't necessary and JLPT is not a good measure of how good you are. To master a language, you need to 'live' it, not learn it. I have friends who passed N1 but they can barely speak japanese.

example
Bangla/Nepal/Myanmar people come to Malaysia and can speak some understandable malay within a few months. Did they take any course? They simply learned the language from real life.



Something I want to mention here is to practice correctly. PERFECT practice makes perfect

example
Malaysians in general have received english language education throughout our schooling life. But still the majority of us speak horrible english because we grew up saying things like 'like dat oso can ah?' It might be a source of pride to have a local flavor of english, but from a language learning perspective, this will slow you down in learning the proper way to speak that language

Basically your 3 excuses (not problems) are

1. How to stay motivated
2. No friends, resources etc

Answer

1. What is your BIG WHY? Why do you want to learn japanese? Is it to impress chicks, to study in japan, being able to watch dorama without subtitles? Is it just a want, or a burning desire? Once you answer this. you'll find ways to motivate yourself

and you just answered yourself with the 3rd bolded text



2. this is 2016. We have the internet. we have skype, we have facebook.
go to facebook, look for malaysia-japan related groups, make friends. skype

and there are plenty of language exchange and language learning sites. google them