Songs, dramas or movie.
Whichever interests u most.
My GF listens to the songs and tries to write out the lyrics hence learning both vocabulary and listening.

hello. i use twitter and sometimes i follow japanese people. the problem is that i can't understand what they are typing. i am trying to find a proper japanese to english translator but i failed.

is there any website/program that can translate japanese to english and vice versa?

I tried that b4, but its more to entertainment than learning the Japanese language.

how is ur GF japanese level, how long she took to learn?

She passed Lvl3 last year and lvl4 the year before.
Both on her first try.
Although I studied longer, she has better vocab than me due to all those anime and song listening.

my not effective learning japanese experience:

1.download anime OP and ED PV which have kanji and hiragana subtitle.
2. Open it and repeat it definitely.Watch out for word u never learn b4.
3. Repeat step 1 and 2.

Learning via Drama and Anime has it's own benefits, they are more likely to enhance your learning experience if you have a basic understanding of the language.

I had a lot of problems with "受身形　Ukemi-kei" and "使役形　Shieki-kei" during my learning in class, but when I watch this drama "Liar game", the girl keep saying she got cheated : 騙された, so now I keep remembering "された" is something done unto you, like 食べされた (u got eaten?? lol)

It does help you remember better, because u keep hearing them over and over again.

Just my 2 cents, hope it helps~

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Added on March 31, 2010, 12:18 pmSame here same here, I also pass both lvl 3 and 4 on the first try, although not in the same year.

And my sensei keep commenting about my pronunciation sounds like native japanese, like they're really impressed...

This post has been edited by audreyreiko: Mar 31 2010, 12:18 PM

may i know which language center u go to? how much is the fees?

I go to ICLS Subang, the fees IMO are pretty reasonable, per course is about 300+ which comes to about 100 a month because one normal part time course takes an average of 3 months.

If you take the intensive course it will be more pricey but still worth it because you finish it in a much shorter period, like 10 days for 1 course level. But that also mean you pay 300+ for just that 10 days. Depends on how you look at it, to me it's about the same.

I would recommend this language school because their teachers are friendly and the atmosphere is relaxing.

They also have branches in KL and Damansara.

(Sounds like i'm helping them advertise pulak lol)

Off topic....LIAR GAME ROCKS !!!

OFFTOPIC:

I watched the whole Liar Game Season 2 with no english subtitle to learn Japanese,really a pain in the ass. The only japanese words I learnt in the J-drama is 十字架。

LOL same here, I can GUESS the meaning, but out of 10 words in a sentence I can probably recognize... like 4??

Part of the reason is because they speak fast, and since a lot of Japanese words sounds similar to one another, I get confused sometimes... if there are Japanese subtitles together with the speech I will be able to understand better.

Actually, ukemi-kei for taberu 食べる is taberareru 食べられる. In this form for this particular verb, it overlaps with the kanou kei　可能形

XX は食べられる means XX is edible.
to be eaten is 食べられた
to be made to eat is 食べさせられる

In general you need to be conscious of the differences when transforming Group I, II and III verbs

I know... this drives me crazy...

Any good advice how to remember this kintaro??

お... 願... い...!

Hi, need help again from all the sensei here.

What would this sentence mean?

「好きだ。もう一度するのかをみてください」彼は言った

hai!!
ore wa nihongo mau belaja desu!

make a table, splitting between Group I, II and III verbs. You can use either jisho-kei or teinei/masu-kei as your base.

For group I, choose a minimum 1 or 2 examples of each pre-masu stem (e.g.: if using masu kei, "kakimasu";"hajimarimasu") or if you prefer jisho-kei, the endings (e.g.., "kaku"; "hajimaru")


Then add in in adjacent columns the te/ta-kei, ukemi-kei, kanou-kei, shieki-kei.

If you look carefully you should be able to discern certain patterns and reduce them into simple math-like formulae.

I could give you the formulae outright, but that wouldn't be any fun, would it? XD
Stuff you work out yourself sticks in your head much longer.

Since you are already learning ukemi and shieki kei, I would surmise that you are already at least at an intermediate level. You should be able to deduce by now that the Japanese language follows some very clear, pseudo-mathematical rules and have far less rei-gai compared to some other crazy mongrel languages (English comes to mind). If you are adept at math, using this formula approach will speed up your understanding of Japanese grammar.

This post has been edited by oe_kintaro: Apr 4 2010, 04:12 PM

I do agree that figuring this out ourselves promote learning better... but I hate math...

Thanks for your advice, just need to get the motivation going again!!

Depends on the sentence. The verb ending also modifies the action but doesn't indicate the topic subject and object. I’ll try to explain, but I’m not familiar with all the Japanese grammar terms like Ukemi-kei, first time I heard of it. However I’ll just use it’s equivalent in English, since that’s how I learn

You have to look out for three things in a subject object verb sentence. Then no matter what they are placed in the sentence, you can understand what's it means. The keys is understanding what the particles mark

Verbs maybe be transitive or intransitive. Transitive is when the actions has to be performed on an object or would be otherwise meaningless, intransitive is when an action can be done without involving an objects, like walking and sleeping.

Then there are two types of sentences.
Active - A does something to B
Passive. Something is being done to, or was done to B by A

What's the difference?
In an active sentence, A is the subject and agent of the sentence and B is the object, the receiving end of the action.
In a passive sentence, the object becomes the subject of the sentence, there is no longer an "object" but the agents remains and is marked by a certain word.

As you can see, only transitive verbs have active-passive sentence. And the rule is all passive verbs are ichidan aka -ru verbs.

Whatever preceeds the particle は or が is always the topic of the sentence. The topic of the sentence is usually the agent or subject in an active sentence and is the object in a passive sentence

Whatever preceeds the particle を will always be the direct object of the verb in the sentence or phrase. You won't see this in a passive sentence

Whatever preceeds the particles に could be many things. In an active sentence it will refer to the direction of the action while in a passive sentence it makes the agent of the action

Lets look at a few examples that lacks any conversation context.

私はテリビを見る - I watch TV - Here the topic and the agent of the action is 私 marked by the particle は. The verb 見る is transitive because the object is maked by the particle を. Therefore, the action is done onto something. And we know this since 見る is in it's dictionary form.

Potential forms

私はテレビが見られる - I can watch the TV. The -られる ending indicates the action can be performed because of the agents own ability, not the situation. So a sentence like 部屋から私はテレビが見られる, would means I can watch the TV in the hall from my bedroom because I've good eyesight. The topic is marked by the particle は while the subject is marked by the particle が.

If the agent is well understood and omitted altogether, then the noun marked by the particle は will become the subject of the sentence. For example テリビは見える, simply means I can see a/the TV

All these sentences are active sentences. Potential verbs are not transitive, therefore cannot be made passive. That is also why テレビ wasn't marked with he particle を

There are special potential verbs such as 見える and 聞こえる, they are not the normal potential form of 見る and 聞く

私はテレビが見える - I can see a TV - The meaning of this sentence is a TV can been see from the position I'm standing at and the position of the TV and whatever other external factors. A more meaningful sentence would be 部屋から私はテリビが見える, I can see the TV in the hall from my room as there are no walls objects in my path.

Causative forms


All causative verbs are transitive, even if the stem verb is not. For example, 歩くー＞歩かせる, to walk is intransitive, but to make someone walk is.

Lets go through a few examples
Intransitive stem – 私は子供を学校え歩かせた – I made my child walk to school
Transitive stem – 私は子供にjジュスを飲ませた– I made my child drink juice

*Notice how を marks the person made to do the action in one sentence while the other is marked with に

私は先生ににあの本を読ませた – I was made to read the book by my teacher
私は母に野菜を食べさせられた – I was forced to eat vegetable by my mom

*Notice how in a passive sentence, は marks the topic and the “object”(the receiving end of the action) while に marks the agent or the person doing the action.

You got confused with this form of verb because you learned it by hearing だまされた. The verb form here is not the causative form of the verb だます, it's the passive form of the verb だます. You make the passive form by taking the verb in it's dictionary form, changing it to the plan negative, taking out the negative stem, then adding れる to Godan verbs or られる to Ichidan verbs。

だます 　だまさない　だまさ　だまされる　

This is referring to the passive form of the verb cheat, not to cause someone to cheat.

So
食べる　食べない　たべられる　- To be eaten
たべる　食べられる - That I'm able to eat the food
食べる　食べさせる - To make someone eat
食べる　食べされる - To be made to eat something by someone
食べる　食べさせられる - To be forced to eat something by someone

Edit - some corrections

This post has been edited by mumeichan: Apr 5 2010, 11:03 PM

mumeichan,
an interesting and detailed take, but I'm not sure if that is entirely kosher.

Within the context of group II verbs, passive (受身形) and potential (可能形) form are similar. My take on this, using 食べる:

食べられる - this form serves as both potential and passive depending on context of the sentence. Key to deciphering would be based on particles used, eg. に or が
Based on my understanding, the Japanese potential form does not differentiate between "edible" and "able to eat" - both are 食べられる. To decipher them would be based on context. Or, you can use the 食べることができる form to make things clearer.

The only notable special exceptions to this rule is 見られる (able to see)　and 見える　(visible) and the 聞ける (able to hear)　and 聞こえる (audible) forms

By detailing the forms above, you have basically alluded to a somewhat problematic and controversial topic in Japanese grammar: the [ら]抜き (omission of "ra") which I am not sure is entirely appropriate for the casual level of understanding of this forum.
But anyway here's what I know of it:

In casual speech form it is common to hear "食べれる" or "見れる" when used as potential form but this is not considered grammatically orthodox as it should still be written as 食べられる and 見られる. In schools, the [ら]抜きis still not taught despite it's pervasiveness in everyday usage.

just my 2 cents'


p.s. 食べされる looks wrong. される for exists for する (group III)

させる　form represents both "to make" or "to let" depending on context
させられる　form represents "to be made to do" or "to be forced to do" (essentially the same thing)

Ah, oe_kintaro, you're right. I realized it and coincidentally I was making some corrections just as you posted you reply. Thanks

And yes, I also made a mistake in the earlier version of my post. Japanese does not differentiate between edible and to be able to eat except for those special verbs.

I jumbled up between when explaining the られる part. As you say, the れる form is just the omission of the ら

As for 食べされる, I can't tell whether such a form is actually used in Japan, nor have I come across it, but from what I've learned so far, it's used for the passive-causative form of the verb together with せられる and させられる, not just for henkaku verbs. However, thanks for bringing this up, I've to do more research on this as I could be really wrong. But isn't the passive-causative form of する、させられる

Also to audrey, talking about conjugations, for the few important henkaku verbs you should simply memorize all the forms.
kuru (come)
suru (do)
shinu (die)
kiru (wear)

Actually how do I say all these grammar terms in Japanese.

Active is 能動態
Passive is 受動態
Causative is 使役形
Passive is 受身形

Am I right about those? How then do I say passive-causative and potential forms and whatnot.

This post has been edited by mumeichan: Apr 6 2010, 12:18 AM