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 survey, halal food without halal license..

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mikicun
post Jun 20 2012, 03:45 PM

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regarding the cafe srving halal food with liqour, actually is ok since u only need to wash the glasses with soap and water ... then it can be used to serve teh o to muslim customer..

but common muslim will avoid that cafe since they dont know if that liqour is also used during cooking... and it also gives bad impression to other muslim if another muslim saw u eating in such places serving liqour..

so to avoid "syubhah" (ada perkara-perkara yang syubhah iaitu perkara yang samar-samar hukumnya di antara yang halal atau haram), most muslim will avoid from eating or drinking in that cafe...
amxpayne67
post Jun 20 2012, 04:18 PM

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QUOTE(mikicun @ Jun 20 2012, 03:45 PM)
regarding the cafe srving halal food with liqour, actually is ok since u only need to wash the glasses with soap and water ... then it can be used to serve teh o to muslim customer..

but common muslim will avoid that cafe since they dont know if that liqour is also used during cooking... and it also gives bad impression to other muslim if another muslim saw u eating in such places serving liqour..

so to avoid "syubhah" (ada perkara-perkara yang syubhah iaitu perkara yang samar-samar hukumnya di antara yang halal atau haram), most muslim will avoid from eating or drinking in that cafe...
*
Agreed. Syubhah =Doubt. Just like i said.
TSleggedy
post Jun 20 2012, 05:50 PM

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wow..good info..i think i got what i wanted, but still need to do proper consideration on this matter..

Of cuz hygiene is number 1 before other point..
Icehart
post Jun 20 2012, 06:07 PM

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Halal certification from Jakim is not an easy matter. My company takes 6 months to get certified. smile.gif
amxpayne67
post Jun 20 2012, 06:28 PM

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If you really concern about hygiene, i think that is a universal common sense. But it is nice to go eat at clean and halal restaurant

This post has been edited by amxpayne67: Jun 20 2012, 06:28 PM
TSleggedy
post Jun 20 2012, 06:41 PM

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QUOTE(Icehart @ Jun 20 2012, 06:07 PM)
Halal certification from Jakim is not an easy matter. My company takes 6 months to get certified. smile.gif
*
yea, i heard so..

Ur company, mind to tell the name of ur company? Hehe..interested to know..


QUOTE(amxpayne67 @ Jun 20 2012, 06:28 PM)
If you really concern about hygiene, i think that is a universal common sense. But it is nice to go eat at clean and halal restaurant
*
agree..hygiene comes first..and then staff attitude..no matter how tasty ur food is, if the staff and hygiene fail, everything is a failure..
And finally not forgetting the ambience..
Hantu641
post Jun 23 2012, 07:18 PM

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yes, doubt is in the R&R of a Muslim choosing a restaurant..that why a muslim is hard to go to any restaurant without checking the place out 1st..
honestly speaking, im used to eat at a restaurant that runs by a chinese tokey and cooked by some indonesian cooks for few weeks..until one day the tokey come to me and tell me personally that the restaurant is non-halal one..
never go there anymore but miss the black old-school coffee..
SUSbudakdegilz
post Jun 24 2012, 09:18 PM

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WoowW!!!
OK...as a muslim myself
and before i jumpship to what's halal food and what's not.... blush.gif

let me ask some "not" so general knowledge to all non-muslim people espeacily in malaysia here...
" What do you as non-muslim understand about our HALAL food?? "

TSleggedy
post Jun 25 2012, 12:31 PM

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QUOTE(budakdegilz @ Jun 24 2012, 09:18 PM)
WoowW!!!
OK...as a muslim myself
and before i jumpship to what's halal food and what's not.... blush.gif

let me ask some "not" so general knowledge to all non-muslim people espeacily in malaysia here...
" What do you as non-muslim understand about our HALAL food?? "
*
erm..to my understanding,

1) the meat source have to be from halal slaughterer..

2) definately no alcoholic uses in marinating or cooking the food

3) the cutlery, and kitchen utensils used must be 'clean'..means if any of those cutlery or utensils used to cook non halal food before cannot be use again to cook halal food..

4) a halal license to protect the muslim diner..

Would gladly appreciate it if there is anything i missout..

Coz i believe getting the license doesnt mean the restaurant cook will be practising all the guidelines..so in order to for me to build a return muslim customer i must have good knowledge in preparing halal food practises..
SUSbudakdegilz
post Jun 25 2012, 08:09 PM

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seems to me your knowledge about our halal food is quite good thumbup.gif

QUOTE(leggedy @ Jun 25 2012, 12:31 PM)
erm..to my understanding,

1) the meat source have to be from halal slaughterer..
yup... notworthy.gif
and in order to get halal certificate from JAKIM the slaughter house also need to get a certificate of halal


2) definately no alcoholic uses in marinating or cooking the food
yup...and not only it doesn't contain any type of alcohol/wine/liqour
in order to get JAKIM halal certificate other instant ingredient also need to be halal...
for example soya sauce, if it produce in malaysia it should have certificate from JAKIM
and for imported ingredient, it should have a recognize muslim associate from the country manufacture origin
for example
http://www.jurnalhalal.com/2010/04/halal-b...d-by-jakim.html
and for more info (updated)
http://www.halal.gov.my/v3/


3) the cutlery, and kitchen utensils used must be 'clean'..means if any of those cutlery or utensils used to cook non halal food before cannot be use again to cook halal food..
yup... notworthy.gif
and that's why in order to get JAKIM halal certificate, in the restaurant kitchen are required at least 2 muslim person working in it
as have been told by forummer here..in our religion it teach us if you have a doubt about something it's better to avoid it
not because we not trust the non-muslim owner...
it's just for a peace of mind for us muslim  nod.gif


Coz i believe getting the license doesnt mean the restaurant cook will be practising all the guidelines..so in order to for me to build a return muslim customer i must have good knowledge in preparing halal food practises..
i believe when you get a halal certificate from JAKIM...
it just like any QUALITY CONTROL organization...they will come to spot check your kitchen anytime  nod.gif
that's why for me personally i would believe more in JAKIM halal certificate

*
actually JAKIM or generally islam halal certificate is not so much different with jewish kosher certificate..
it's all about QUALITY CONTROL
....
and what conserns as muslim in malaysia(personally me tongue.gif ) was there's party who trying to take advantage of our halal certificate espeacialy in malaysia market...
for example here
http://www.jurnalhalal.com/2010/04/syarika...halal-yang.html
those organization was NOT recognize by JAKIM or any islamic NGO oraganization in malaysia
how can they write malaysia there???!!
and actually you can see how to logo having a resemblance of JAKIM halal logo
and you can see also the IFANCA logo is not the same with the true IFANCA(islam food and nutrition council of america) logo
http://www.ifanca.org/website

so if you want to attract muslim crowd market in malaysia...
it's better to get JAKIM halal certificate.. thumbup.gif
but as we all know...NOT ALL muslim in malaysia consider about the halal food status...
it's up to their personal choices...
but PLEASE don't take an advantage about our HALAL FOOD QUALITY CONTROL by using non-recognize halal logo notworthy.gif

This post has been edited by budakdegilz: Jun 25 2012, 08:25 PM
TSleggedy
post Jun 26 2012, 08:06 AM

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QUOTE(budakdegilz @ Jun 25 2012, 08:09 PM)
seems to me your knowledge about our halal food is quite good  thumbup.gif
actually JAKIM or generally islam halal certificate is not so much different with jewish kosher certificate..
it's all about QUALITY CONTROL
....
and what conserns as muslim in malaysia(personally me tongue.gif  ) was there's party who trying to take advantage of our halal certificate espeacialy in malaysia market...
for example here
http://www.jurnalhalal.com/2010/04/syarika...halal-yang.html
those organization was NOT recognize by JAKIM or any islamic NGO oraganization in malaysia
how can they write malaysia there???!!
and actually you can see how to logo having a resemblance of JAKIM halal logo
and you can see also the IFANCA logo is not the same with the true IFANCA(islam food and nutrition council of america) logo
http://www.ifanca.org/website

so if you want to attract muslim crowd market in malaysia...
it's better to get JAKIM halal certificate.. thumbup.gif
but as we all know...NOT ALL muslim in malaysia consider about the halal food status...
it's up to their personal choices...
but PLEASE don't take an advantage about our HALAL FOOD QUALITY CONTROL by using non-recognize halal logo  notworthy.gif
*
yeap, agree with the advantages taking parties..that is definately a no no to me, why would i want to risk having my customer doubt on my food quality control..

Very good info u've provided..thanks alot!
dvng
post Jun 27 2012, 07:57 PM

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If you want an honest opinion, If your cafe or restaurant serve Good and delicious food it will attract customer even if it is not Halal. i have seen non-halal eating place having brisk business without the need of muslim patrons. Look at all those places which serve Pork Ribs. And, i do not patronize chinese owned eating place which does not serve pork.
DarkNite
post Jun 28 2012, 08:02 AM

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F&B business is already hard enough! Success rate for new F&B is only less than 10%, some more you as a non-muslim wans to tap the muslim market doh.gif



TSleggedy
post Jun 29 2012, 02:00 PM

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QUOTE(dvng @ Jun 27 2012, 07:57 PM)
If you want an honest opinion, If your cafe or restaurant serve Good and delicious food it will attract customer even if it is not Halal. i have seen non-halal eating place having brisk business without the need of muslim patrons. Look at all those places which serve Pork Ribs. And, i do not patronize chinese owned eating place which does not serve pork.
*
QUOTE(DarkNite @ Jun 28 2012, 08:02 AM)
F&B business is already hard enough! Success rate for new F&B is only less than 10%, some more you as a non-muslim wans to tap the muslim market doh.gif
*
Thanks alot for ur kind input...
We r still in mid of planning..have yet to reach final decision..i need all possible feedback...keep it coming forumers!!

=)
Putraskyline
post Jun 30 2012, 03:58 PM

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QUOTE(vey99 @ Jun 19 2012, 11:34 AM)
if malay cook, no halal cert also they dun mind
if mamak cook, generally dun mind but some more pious one wont go also
if cina cook, even less will go.

but if western they will go and eated even if no halal despite the arak is served in same type of glass as non arak.

so how?
*
This is typical Malay statement. When you are doing survey or whatever, mostly outcome from Malay groups will become like this. You understand Malay mind well, Vey99. But most of my self observation goes like this :

QUOTE
if malay cook, no halal cert also they dun mind : This is true. Well most of Malay stall that serving Thai food using product from Thai which I think 50-50 about halal. But they don't mind as long as Malay cook it. They will said, 100% confirm the Malay cook will be using ALL certified ingredient. They will use assumptions rather than true observation. They don't care.


if mamak cook, generally dun mind but some more pious one wont go also : Malay will see Indian or whatever as Mamak which is known as Indian Muslim but they don't know a lot this restaurant just put Islamic wording at counter so most of them will make self assumption that this restaurant is Halal. They don't mind to eat. I have seen 2-3 restaurant which I dont know either Indian or Indian muslim ordered wet ingedient from Chinese supplier.

if cina cook, even less will go : I agree. Although the mamak restaurant above take same ingredient from the same supplier but less Malay will go.

but if western they will go and eated even if no halal despite the arak is served in same type of glass as non arak : This is another level of Malay eater. They usually comes from rich family and have been going travel around the world.


This is my personal observation and its hard to capture Muslim market smile.gif

This post has been edited by Putraskyline: Jun 30 2012, 04:00 PM
vey99
post Jun 30 2012, 05:05 PM

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QUOTE(Putraskyline @ Jun 30 2012, 03:58 PM)
This is typical Malay statement. When you are doing survey or whatever, mostly outcome from Malay groups will become like this. You understand Malay mind well, Vey99. But most of my self observation goes like this :
This is my personal observation and its hard to capture Muslim market smile.gif
*
i see so many example liao
many also chaplap
no customer

chinis food, halal, malay or non malay also, very less malay will go.
if the place got business also due to chinis customer. the only malay u see is cos got chinis on same table (company meal)

its not that they are racist. its simple culture, malay very strong on home cook culture.
modern ones do eat out, but ur market still niche.

chinis food alot cos chinis lazy duwan cook want to eat outside msg.

SUSbudakdegilz
post Jun 30 2012, 10:15 PM

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hehehehe...
the MAIN reason why many malay NOT dare to enter chinese restaurant simply because

QUOTE(dvng @ Jun 27 2012, 07:57 PM)
If you want an honest opinion, If your cafe or restaurant serve Good and delicious food it will attract customer even if it is not Halal. i have seen non-halal eating place having brisk business without the need of muslim patrons. Look at all those places which serve Pork Ribs. And, i do not patronize chinese owned eating place which does not serve pork.
*
yup..PIG is kind of BIG taboo in malay culture...
and don't be confius between malay and muslim.. blush.gif
as a muslim and malay myself...i know some of them didn't not really care about this halal certificate...
espeacilly those who live in urban place such in KL
and if you want to captured those crowd..just open up vegetarian restaurant...
i'm pretty sure that many will come to your restaurant.... thumbup.gif

BUT don't simply put an halal certificate JUST because you serve a vegetarian food....
as i told before halal certificate is more like about quality control....

and you know what a typical malaysian thinking was
*malay=muslim=only eat halal food
*indian=hindu=not eating beef
*chinese=buddha=must eat pork
laugh.gif

This post has been edited by budakdegilz: Jun 30 2012, 10:20 PM
hhng
post Jul 1 2012, 01:17 AM

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QUOTE(leggedy @ Jun 29 2012, 02:00 PM)
Thanks alot for ur kind input...
We r still in mid of planning..have yet to reach final decision..i need all possible feedback...keep it coming forumers!!

=)
*
TS... i hope i able to give some information as well some little opinion towards Halal Restaurant..

Abit of introduction of my self. I am a chinese. I own a restaurant in Kota Bharu. My restaurant serve Halal Western such as american & italian & abit of french food. Like ur concern, my customer always wonder if my restaurant halal. This restaurant just celebrated 1 year anniversary few days back.

my major customer group more or less consist of Chinese 65% Malay 25% India 10%. In a very initial state during the business we tried to target muslim market as our main market. However a fews issue that i face to archive the main targeted market..

Basically like fews had mention about quality control & jakim verification. I wish to get the Jakim Halal Cert however the is pro & cons to apply it. 1st of all as a small capacity 40pax restaurant, it is very difficult to hire numbers of employee. Turnover of Waiters & Cook become 1 of my main concern. in the discuss to archive HALAL cert by hakim, we must atleast hire 2 FULLTIME (not partime) MUSLIM as our food handler (kitchen assistant/chef). So as usual, they will come to check most of the time to see if ur kitchen have 2 fulltimer muslim. So it is safer if u able to hire more than 3 muslim just for the kitchen side to incase during operation there are always 2 muslim working.

Secondly all the ingredient must be VERIFIED & Halal. Tried to get all ur sauce, soy sauce and other flavouring agent that archive halal. Possible keep all the Halal Certificated printed and file it for future references. Must restaurant may find difficult to do so just simple because certain ingredient it is halal but it don't certified HALAL. Example: if u having some western recipe that require MUSTARD, SAFFRON, other ingredient, make sure u sure the mustard from the HALAL company. The problem is that in the market i not sure that if u can easily get those ingredients CERTIFIED.

Thirdly, make sure all ur source of butcher item/meat item come with halal certificate. Example that u should purchase chicken from Dinding, Ayam Mas and other halal supplier. Ur Imported or local Beef should ship with Halal Certificated as well.

Another big thing u may need to take care that once u get the HALAL certification, U have to work hard to maintain it. If let say one day (touch wood) the certificated had been withdraw by Jakim for whatever reason, u may be jeopardize ur brand. A story (maybe real/true) from one of the local chinese restaurant . They successful archive the Halal Certification from Jakim for years. One day, the jakim had spot check on the Halal prospect & the restaurant halal cert was withdraw/forfeited. The reason is that the restaurant purchase AYAM KAMPUNG (free range chicken) from the local wet market which is not verified HALAL CERTIFICATION.


I not so sure how the Jakim Procedure of checking HALAL rule & regulation. I hope above information will give you some guide.
icemanfx
post Jul 29 2012, 11:47 AM

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Authentic Chinese, Italian, French, etc cooking use pork and alcohol extensively. Non-pork or halal non-Malay, non-mamak restaurant means omitting and substituting certain dishes and ingredients i.e. compromising quality, is best to avoid if choice is available.


athlonmax
post Jul 30 2012, 01:50 PM

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From what i know,restaurants like Chilis,TGIF didn't have halal logo because they are serving alcohol,that's why Jakim didn't provide them with halal logo,eventhough their food is pork/alcohol free.

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