Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

 No qualified ppl even fresh grad RM100k pa., Investment banking is so hard to hire

views
     
atlantiz0
post Jun 25 2012, 10:46 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
154 posts

Joined: Jul 2011


i have this urge to just try my luck and see where I stand in your perceived 'standard' of current gen employees ... then again, I'm kinda amused by the possibility that you might be just simply trolling. Haha. pardon me yea .. its an online world where we are all sceptical to each other anyway.

I've got a question for discussion though, judging by your experience, what do you think is your company's draw factor for talented young graduates compared to top IBs like Deutsch, CS, MS, JPM etc ?

I mean, because you said your company wanted talents from the likes of Wharton - I suppose talent from unis like that would've been more than qualified for those international IBs, earning probably triple your stated salary here, and gain exposures that local IBs simply cannot provide..
atlantiz0
post Jun 26 2012, 12:36 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
154 posts

Joined: Jul 2011


hmm.. your reply surprised me a little, I must say.

I've thought of joining either smaller boutique fund houses and find my way into bigger IBs- but haven't actually spared a thought on .. something that's in between, i.e. like your bank vs. the international IBs.

hehe ... is the job challenging? If you are paying 70K, aren't you at a disadvantage compared to CIMB investment? They seem to be able to offer more- in terms of exposures, learning supports and pay/benefits, no?

Mind share on a little bit on the culture of the ECM team in your bank?
atlantiz0
post Feb 11 2013, 12:17 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
154 posts

Joined: Jul 2011


QUOTE(IBank BeanBag @ Feb 10 2013, 08:40 PM)
Yes, still hiring. Two fresh grads with little experience, if any, required.

Same stringent requirement but needed somebody who can withstand some alcohol in the medium term as eventual development will require you to have constant meeting with fund managers to pitch ideas.
*
Can't believe the same job is still available after 8 months ... is it really that hard to find good candidate ? lol

may I ask what's your opinion on the prospects of doing market/treasury risk in CB/IB?
atlantiz0
post Feb 11 2013, 10:12 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
154 posts

Joined: Jul 2011


QUOTE(fino_abama @ Feb 11 2013, 03:56 PM)
Market risk? Bright prospect with good pay as you gain experience but lower bonus as compared with IB, CF, ECM (random order).
*
i wonder how the local bank works in term of their risk mgmt structure? Would the market risk team deal with treasury (FX, IR) risk as well? I know some (CIMB) have separate risk analytic and modeling team ... that does sound really interesting but a few linkedin profiles I checked... people in that team are all phds from no less than ivy leagues or oxbridges... =(


atlantiz0
post Feb 12 2013, 01:49 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
154 posts

Joined: Jul 2011


QUOTE(fino_abama @ Feb 11 2013, 11:41 PM)
At the bank I'm working at, the market risk setup is small (market risk monitoring & compliance section and market risk management section). They monitor the FX, IR, Bonds, Swaps, etc.

Are you from a Quant background? For risk modeling, banks would look for those with tertiary education in Math, Statistics, Financial Engineering, Quantitative Finance, etc., packed with programming knowledge like C++, Java, VBA.
*
Yep .. have a maths degree with comp science minor (so i can do Java, VBA, matlab and SAS) and done some masters course-works in financial engineering .. working towards CFA too .. but now it seems less relevant to me if I don't do ECM/CF .. almost all of level 2 are valuations related ... not the kind of arcane maths I'm looking for. haha.

i'm actually working in bank too... but it's at the consumer division doing mostly risk modeling .. still, it is more statistical than mathematical to my liking due to the volume consumer businesses are dealing with.

i wonder if msian banks do derivative products origination ? or that's the big boys' game ?
atlantiz0
post Feb 12 2013, 10:47 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
154 posts

Joined: Jul 2011


QUOTE(fino_abama @ Feb 12 2013, 10:32 AM)
That's good. It doesn't always have to be in ECM/CF, there's still DCM, Fixed Income Analysis. Everything is about valuation in CFA, the math level is not very high (no stochastic calculus or Ito's Lemma, PDEs) but the practical side of things is incorporated into the syllabus. If you want to have a chance to apply what you have learn about FE, best place is SG or HK.

Are you in consumer credit risk? Credit scorecard modeling?
*
yeah man. Spent countless excruciating hours studying stochastic and some more did my numerical differential methods programming and I have no chance to use them.. quite a waste. Yea... been thinking of trying my luck in SG/HK or even London ... but the market is really tight now.. i wonder when will the recovery truly comes.

yeap consumer portfolio credit. Dealing more with portfolio-wide stress testing, ICAAP and some BASEL modeling ... nowadays start doing on scorecard and decision tree modeling too. It is honestly not that boring too but the pay could have been better.. haha.

how about you ? Are you in market risk ?
atlantiz0
post Feb 12 2013, 10:50 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
154 posts

Joined: Jul 2011


QUOTE(Materazzi @ Feb 12 2013, 09:13 AM)
Is cfa important to climb ladder?
*
Depends on where and which department you working at I suppose. I think you can safely assume a MBA will do you more good in climbing the ladder than a CFA.

I take up CFA more due to interest... climbing ladder - it is always about your actual work performance and how you carry yourself through anyway.
atlantiz0
post Feb 12 2013, 12:02 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
154 posts

Joined: Jul 2011


QUOTE(fino_abama @ Feb 12 2013, 11:34 AM)
I'm in Non-Traded Market Risk (Interest Rate Risk & Liquidity Risk Management, ICAAP, Basel III LCR & NSFR, Stress Testing, Scenario Analysis). If you've been there for a few years, apply for internal transfer to market or operational risk (if this practice is allowed). You're still young (I suppose) so move around and get more exposure. As you get more experience, your salary will move up, don't worry.

SG, HK, London markets are always hiring for Quants (though not on a wide scale) but you must remember, there are many FE grads out there (in SG alone, you have NUS, NTU, SMU), not to mention on the other side of the world, you have CMU, Baruch, Columbia, etc churning out Financial Engineers every year. I don' t know where you studied yours, so no offense intended.
*
I'm from NUS sweat.gif ... Did not have a first class - it was cut throat in SG market anyway... so I came back msia to look for promised land when the recruiter call me up. hahaha. like you said.. i'm waiting for the opportunity to do internal transfer back to SG/HK while I prove myself in msia. 1.5 years into the job already and still waiting ...

yours sound fun - my bank has a separate balance sheet mgmt team to deal with liquidity risk... but you seem to sapu everything under non-traded except price risk... sounds like lots of good learning opportunities there. Any thoughts on FRM or PRM ?
atlantiz0
post Feb 13 2013, 10:58 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
154 posts

Joined: Jul 2011


QUOTE(fino_abama @ Feb 12 2013, 12:42 PM)
FRM and PRM are good risk management qualifications IMO. FRM is more on the practical side (always up-to-date) while PRM is more math-based (but not hardcore level). I've done both, so that's telling from my experience. My current employer doesn't really recognize it (but my next one does brows.gif). The knowledge helps, though, that's how I'm able to move up so fast.

1.5 years is still okay, banks in SG pay high as well for people with credit risk experience. Don't give up, keep on applying.

My unit doesn't handle price risk (that's for the Traded Market Risk unit) and because of our lean structure, 1 person will be doing 4 people's work (Per hour pay still higher than McD's). Learning curve is steep but I enjoy it.
*
thinking of taking up PRM after my CFA is done ... but not entirely sure if Risk is where I wanna do for the rest of my career tho - since I have the chance to rotate to other front offices as part of my MT program if I choose to .. what do you think ? Have you tried functions other than risk ?

But it's really incredible that you did both frm and prm in a short span of time - where to find discipline for that ? haha . I've heard somewhere that there are only a handful of PRM qualified candidates in Msia and most of the employers do not even know this qualification ... is that true?

like your comparison of McD salary. I think I'm underpaid with the hours I'm putting in .. hahaha .
atlantiz0
post Feb 13 2013, 11:03 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
154 posts

Joined: Jul 2011


QUOTE(mercury8400 @ Feb 12 2013, 04:06 PM)
Wow, I see alot of risk people here.
Anyone doing credit risk?
Should share some exp here
I'm a credit risk analyst for large corp in a well known bank in SG.
*
hiring? icon_idea.gif haha.

how would you rate your experience doing corporate credit risk ? Funny that I have a senior rotating into my consumer risk department and she told me consumer risk is much more interesting with more analysis and thinking behind the decisions - while corporate risk analysis is more governed by established policies and rules ... what would be your thought?
atlantiz0
post Feb 14 2013, 12:27 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
154 posts

Joined: Jul 2011


QUOTE(mercury8400 @ Feb 13 2013, 02:55 PM)
I'm more into credit analysis where i evaluate the bank's clients business model, balance sheet, and cashflow using qualitative and quantitative methods to determine the credit worthiness of a customer and/or structure deals which mitigates the clients inherent credit risk.
It more fun than looking at risk models/KMV or VAR since i get to interact with clients and understand their business models.
I personally feel the structure and lending mechanism is more complex in corporate banking and needs much more analysis than consumer banking becuase you are dealing with conglomerates who have different businesses all ove the world.
*
My thoughts too ... that's what I told the senior on why I am looking forward for a stint in corporate credit risk last time. Probably I should try it myself if I've got the chance.


QUOTE(IBank BeanBag @ Feb 13 2013, 08:45 PM)
y hijack my thread to discuss credit risk?

my thread is about investment banking hiring for fresh grads and interns
*
haha.. sorry bean.
atlantiz0
post Jun 16 2013, 07:01 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
154 posts

Joined: Jul 2011


QUOTE(sendomike @ Jun 16 2013, 04:34 PM)
Haha.. Yeap.. I guess it didn't sad.gif
*
Don't think it'll look attractive to him even if you are from Harvard. He will need people that works proactively instead.
atlantiz0
post Jun 20 2013, 12:40 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
154 posts

Joined: Jul 2011


QUOTE(IBank BeanBag @ Jun 18 2013, 02:12 PM)
Have to disagree.

My second ivy league intern just finished his tenure with us.

Like the previous guy, he was good at picking up new things and came in with very good attitude.

On top of that, he could survive in the extreme conditions that we are operating in.

Our interview process is designed to identify this type of candidates out of the many that we have seen. And for once, I am going to share on this.
What is our process?

Truth is we are most likely to have screened through 100 CVs - which i usually screen for 5 mins each and say keen (50) or not keen  (the other 50) - so don't be upset if I concluded in two words. We cannot afford to give detailed feedback and we don't owe you that.

And we will speak with 50 candidates for about 10 mins each. A lot of you have gone through that personally.

Then we move about 20 candidates that we would spend two hours each managing the process or interviewing or testing.

Of that, we may look at 10 final candidates and compare one to another (few more hours each). Once we are happy, we choose 1-3 people and show to the bosses and about 50% got an offer from there.

and if you do the maths, I spend 100 hours each time and my recruitment results has so far been very impressive in identifying the right candidates.
What is the drawbacks?

I tend to have 30% of candidates who cannot handle the rejection well or perhaps my non-sugar-coated way of saying no is too harsh.

I suggest whoever thinks they fit into this category please inform me of their preference for me to ignore him / her than saying no.
Atlantiz0 is based in KL or SG?
*
thanks for the insights ! It's always interesting to know how IB functions.

I'm based in KL at the moment ...
atlantiz0
post Aug 20 2013, 10:45 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
154 posts

Joined: Jul 2011


Ah Bean ... 3 nights is the max ... don't overwork your people .. haha tongue.gif

Investment bank intern, 21, on £45,000 worked 'until 6am for three nights in a row' before he was found dead in his London flat

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-23...long-hours.html

This post has been edited by atlantiz0: Aug 20 2013, 10:46 PM
atlantiz0
post Aug 21 2013, 09:54 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
154 posts

Joined: Jul 2011


QUOTE(snai85 @ Aug 21 2013, 04:34 AM)
My opinion:

i) Don't expect your subordinate can perform job as you do..Some people need to adapt with the environment before they can start to perform
Don't work in investment bank then. The expectation is that you either have it in you when you join, or you learn darn fast. Hence the stringent selection bro.

ii) Only foreign Uni graduate? Local grads can't do any job?? I saw a lot of "Foregn Uni" grads unable to perform compared with the local grad. Mostly come-out from their uni with an egoism as a package but unable to perform and always ask question without effort to find answers by themselves.
I think it is not an absolute requirement to be foregin grads. I dont think the hiring team cares , given if you can perform well.

iii) 70 hours for 5 days a week (14 hours)..is that your minimum working hours? It is totally not worth even you pay them with 5k...as I mention, the new joiners need some time to adapt..but at the same time not to pampered them.
pretty normal hours I thought - have you heard how long the management consultants need to work?

iv) If you do want people to work that hard...why don't you take 2 person and pay them rm2.5k? Atleast if they can work 9 hours (normal working hour) daily, with 2 of them, you can get around 90 hours per week consistently. At the same time don't be too strict on the requirement.
you mean to say - we can replace one warren buffett with 100 snai85? Dont think so leh.

Thanks
*
By the way, read an old article recently on IB/WallSt. "Much of what investment bankers do is socially worthless" ... pretty neatly elaborated
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/11...fa_fact_cassidy

 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0314sec    0.62    6 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 9th December 2025 - 06:14 PM