Thank you for the advice!

As for jpa, my current offer is different and am applying for placement changes to usm-kle - so I guess I'd have to see how that goes first.

Another question I'd like to ask is -
How long do medical officers usually wait for their turn to specialise?
I've read that recently, albeit being good and applying, there's still a long line to wait for.

This is because I'm also pondering about if I took jpa it has that 10 year bond to serve before we're free to go. In my plannings, I don't think I'll be going to private, however I'd still prefer if I had the freedom of choosing career pathways.

Thank you! Have a good day.

If possible, try to get the USM-KLE.

About your other question, if you really determined, you can start your way to become a specialist (in certain fields) even during your housemanship training by taking and passing certain professional exams. It is faster than doing Masters degree in Universities but.... you will have to fork out the fees yourself.

For example, MRCP (UK) if you are keen to become a physician.... MRCPCH for pediatrician... MRCOG for Obgyn specialist... MRCGP for family physician...
If you manage to pass all the required papers, you can apply to KKM to be registered as a specialist after you have undergone a certain period of training known as 'credentialing' in suitable departments.

See here for recognized specialist qualifications: https://www.nsr.org.my/Qualifications.html

On the 10 years bond... that is not necessarily the case nowadays... new medical doctors are hired on contract basis now... only a fraction of them will be absorbed into permanent work force...



This post has been edited by CyberSetan: Jul 4 2020, 11:07 PM

times have changed. for now you should also add in additionall prayer everyday that you get a tetap position after your HO. no harm taking papers during HO and contract MO years. but can set aside the masters dream until you get tetap.

MRCP = specialist in Malaysia?

Yeah, what I've heard and read is that if you passed your professional examination and undergo a period of gazettement/observstion, you will be deemed fit to be a specialist in malaysia.

(Which in my opinion is kinda surprising and scary as people who've passed MRCP are only SHO level/pre-registrar going into higher specialty training in the UK)

ya, because if I understand correctly, MRCP is only a pre-req to enable one to apply for specialty training in the UK. It is scary indeed!

Wait a minute - MRCP = specialist in Malaysia? Please check and confirm, because the MRCP, MRCPCH and all membership exams for that matter, are entry exams and have been for decades in Singapore and the UK.

Back in my time and that’s some 20, 25 years back, the Membership exams were a prerequisite for me to exit BST (Basic Specialty Training) and enter AST.

This post has been edited by hksgmy: Jul 14 2020, 03:05 AM

You can see here - it is listed in the National Specialist Registry (NSR):

RECOGNIZED POSTGRADUATE QUALIFICATIONS (MEDICINE) - https://www.nsr.org.my/Qualifications.html

This post has been edited by mRNA-83: Jul 14 2020, 02:32 PM

Yes, but that is just a postgraduate qualification - it may not confer professional recognition of specialty. Eg in the UK, you’ll need the CCST post MRCP to qualify as a specialist. In Singapore, you’ll need a Fellowship equivalent.

In Malaysia, after getting that MRCP, they need to be gazetted as a specialist by MOH. eg; they have to undergo 18 months of 'credentialing' before being allowed to become a 'specialist'.
Its not specifically written in that NSR link, but that is what is being practiced for those who recently obtained MRCP/MRCPH/MRCGP:


See this under MRCGP in the link:

Membership of the Royal College of General Practitioners, United Kingdom (MRCGP (UK)) - Qualification obtained before the year 2007, will be considered on a case-to-case basis - Qualification obtained after the year 2006 (from 2007 onwards), must undergo minimum 18 months period of credentialing


This post has been edited by mRNA-83: Jul 14 2020, 02:51 PM

yes, thats why malaysia boleh.

as what mrna-83 said, you can be a specialist just after 18 months of gazettement with MRCP, MRCPCH and MRCGP. (not MRCS since its not recognised)
so yeah in theory, i can finish mrcp by next year and be a specialist in 2-3 years time in malaysia without any higher speciality training (as long as ive passed the gazettement of course)

Thank you for your clarification! That's honestly an eye opener for me!

Summoning hypermax for useful input on MRCP.

This post has been edited by mRNA-83: Jul 15 2020, 02:27 PM

That’ll be good to hear it from a junior doctor in the Singapore system. I’m an oldfag - I passed out decades ago when life was simpler. Can’t say I envy you guys.

Is it true that now UM and UKM graduates are not accepted by Sg for HO, although both schools are still in SMC list?

Just because a degree is recognised doesn’t mean a position will open up, esp for a foreigner. It’s getting harder, even for returning Singaporeans, to secure housemanship positions, as the local schools are churning out 500 students (of varying standards) annually.

Wrong info

MRCP pathway is now known as parallel pathway. One must have 3 years of Internal Medicine training pre-MRCP (as MO. HO rotation not counted), then 1 year of Internal Medicine training post MRCP, then finally half a year of gazzettement (functioning as specialist but under supervision). So total duration to be gazzetted as a General Internal Medicine specialist in KKM is 4 and half years. Then for NSR registration, one need another one year after gazzettement before being qualified (total 5 and 1/2 years from start to finish to be able to register as GIM specialist in NSR). If you struggle to pass your MRCP, let's say 6 years before you finally clear all parts of MRCP, you still need the one year post MRCP training before being able to go for gazzettement. Don't simply sarcastically say "Malaysia Boleh" if you don't know the full facts la

During the 4 years pregazzettement, the candidate must go through at least 8 sub-specialty rotations, namely cardio, neuro, respi, nephro, gastro, rheumato, endocrine, and ID. If not mistaken, geriatric, hemato and palliative are optional. Max duration for each rotation is 4 months. Anything more than that is not counted towards the 4 years training

The rules have tightened considerably since 2016 because previously too many young MRCPians without experience. Simple procedures like chest tube, transvenous pacing, pericardial draining also cant do independently

*PS gazzetted as GIM specialist means can only work as specialist in KKM hospitals. To be able to practice in private hospital as a GIM specialist, one needs NSR

This post has been edited by hypermax: Jul 15 2020, 11:43 PM

Apologies as Im a UK graduate working in the UK 🤷.
I'm speaking from an international graduate perspective.

From your context and from the NSR website, it seems like 4 years post MO is the earliest possible time. (Which is still much shorter in comparison to UK)
Yes, that's why I'm supporting the fact that doesn't mean you have MRCP, you're competent to be a specialist in the field.
In the UK, mrcp is just a prerequisite. Nothing more.
Still have at least 3-4 years after MRCP to have your CCT aka completion of training.
And for UK trainees, there's 3 years of basic specialty training anyways prior to higher specialty training.
So technically, you can be a specialist registrar in the UK but a full fledged specialist in Malaysia as long you fulfill those rotations mentioned.

Thank you for the clarification! To be honest, the training requirements are somewhat basic, for recognition and to be gazetted as a specialist in Malaysia. What you just mentioned would be the level of a specialist registrar in Singapore (during my days, God knows how things have been tweaked now, what with the residency program and other changes) but I know for a fact that post qualifications training is not just for another year - it wasn’t during my time (that required a minimum of 3 additional years, a published paper and an exit exam) and in Australia, you’d need the FRACS or FRACP or FRACGP or any other Fellowship of the specialty colleges which are exit exams.

Are you still in Singapore or have you gone back to Malaysia?

Again, your comparison is somewhat flawed.
Higher specialty training in UK = subspecialty training in Malaysia. The only difference is GIM is considered as a higher specialty/subspecialty in the UK.

Please bear in mind that it is possible to get dual accreditation (eg GIM and endocrine) from a higher specialty training programme.

My friend who passed mrcp with me is doing that in Cambridge.
5 years of higher specialty training programme where he will be awarded both GIM and endocrine accreditation at the end of his training. The pathway is actually faster than in endocrine training pathway in Malaysia.

In the UK, 3 years of basic specialty training leading to MRCP, then 5 years of training for CCT in both GIM and endocrine. Total 8 years

In Malaysia, 4 and half years (3 + 1 1/2) to be gazetted as GIM specialist, one additional year for NSR, then only eligible for endocrine training which is typically 3 years. So total 8 and half years for dual accreditation, which is actually longer than that of UK training.

Also in Malaysia, you must fulfill your logbook for procedures such as chest tube, transvenous pacing, lunbar puncture etc in order to complete your gazettement.

I was in Singapore for one year of electrophysiology fellowship. I am now back in Malaysia as cardiologist (already completed 3 and half years of cardiology training before i went to Singapore)

Singapore system has changed to mimic US. 3 years of basic specialty training in GIM (aka residency), then additional 3 to four years of subspecialty training. It is also possible to get dual accreditation in GIM and a subspecialty of your choice. But one will need additional 2 years of GIM training post 3 years of basic GIM training.

In summary
Single accreditation: 3 + 3 or 4 years depending on which sub
Dual accreditation: 3 + 2 + 3 or 4

Still faster than Malaysian pathway lol. Not to mention housemanship in Singapore is only one year.

Also please bear in mind, invasive procedures such as chest tube can only be done by senior respiratory medicine registrar, and not basic GIM trainee. Heck even simple procedure like transvenous pacing needs to be done by cardio registrar

This post has been edited by hypermax: Jul 17 2020, 09:25 AM