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> Condo for daily tenent..homestay..legal or illigal, Condo for investment

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cherroy
post May 24 2012, 03:27 PM

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QUOTE(michaellee @ May 23 2012, 04:41 PM)
I was doing 3 months rental for some of my units before and the nasty management tried to shut us down. I won't go into details what happened thereafter, but we stood our grounds and won. It is not easy to define what is commercial. I have recently purchase quite a number of units which I intend to turn into a sort of mini hotel with daily rate due to the location of the high rise. I am likely to face problems but heck, since my group of people own a few floors, chances of us winning the AGM is higher than those against. The sad reality of a poorly set up Strata Title Act for Malaysia.
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Like that, I do not wish to buy the particular highrise building. smile.gif

If all owner across of the building is doing this, I don't think the property can fetch good price in the future.

The bolded part can be seen as commercial use.
Yes, how to define it as commercial use?
Let the judge to decide.


Added on May 24, 2012, 3:35 pm
QUOTE(Backkom @ May 23 2012, 08:47 PM)
It only takes one big criminal case (or one explosion) to bring the condo's name down.
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When people knew a particular property being used like motel, I can bet valuation will be significant lower than another similar one being being managed properly and genuine own stay one.

Little people want to buy a property for own stay that full of stranger that everyday changing due to daily motel renting.

This post has been edited by cherroy: May 24 2012, 03:35 PM
michaellee
post May 25 2012, 12:25 AM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ May 24 2012, 03:20 PM)
Yes, indeed.

There is not clear cut law, stated, what if tenants do not pay the rental, landlord has the right to cut water and electricity supply.
There is no specific law stated one can or cannot rent for 1 day, 1 month or 1 year.
There is only local authority regulation stated, residential property cannot be used for commercial like motel.

Rent 1 day is or is not a commercial usage, it is not up to ordinary person like me or we to judge. It is until there is preceding case and judgement being made, only then we can know what is verdict.

Whatever comment made here doesn't mean it must be right or wrong.
Some may be ill advised, some may be good one. It is up to reader to filter and judge on one own.
It is an open forum place,
moderator is not the one that know every piece of law and regulation which is right or wrong.
So it is not for moderator to delete those comment (even ill advised one), we can pin-point to the fact whatever comment is ill advised and wrongly, which is good enough to remind readers around.
You can, but it is not 100% sure will win the case as well.
As any T&C that violate the basic law, it can be deem void and null one or can be challenged.
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Actually there are clear cut case precedents on dealing with deliquent tenants and I have been promoting the legal way. Though I have never said that that is the most efficient way. I believe in such public forum, we should promote what is right rather than what is against the law, especially when Jalsrix mentioned that he has asked his lawyers, and some readers might interprete it as he had already done his research and advised accordingly. Such people are dangerous. He has failed to give the name of his lawyers and cases which supported his claims.

Like I have said, and I think Dario had pointed out, 1 day rental does not constitute anything illegal as there is no specific law in dealing with it. If it is illegal, then renting out the property for 12 months is illegal too as it is on a commercial basis.
cherroy
post May 25 2012, 10:57 AM

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QUOTE(michaellee @ May 25 2012, 12:25 AM)
Actually there are clear cut case precedents on dealing with deliquent tenants and I have been promoting the legal way. Though I have never said that that is the most efficient way. I believe in such public forum, we should promote what is right rather than what is against the law, especially when Jalsrix mentioned that he has asked his lawyers, and some readers might interprete it as he had already done his research and advised accordingly. Such people are dangerous. He has failed to give the name of his lawyers and cases which supported his claims.

Like I have said, and I think Dario had pointed out, 1 day rental does not constitute anything illegal as there is no specific law in dealing with it. If it is illegal, then renting out the property for 12 months is illegal too as it is on a commercial basis.
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Yes, there is no specific law saying that 1 day renting = commercial use
but neither said 1 day renting and running like motel is not a commercial use.

Then please always state the cases, and what is verdict as well, and law according to the deliquent tenants issue. smile.gif
It will help and benefit all, as there is no specific law or guideline to tell landlord what can be done on deliquent tenants issue apart from legal procedure to chase after the owed money.

Whether it is legal or not, is not down to we think or you think.
It is down to the authority or judge to decide under juridication procedure, the definition of commercial use, whether daily renting to different person is a commercial use or not.

michaellee
post May 25 2012, 11:06 AM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ May 25 2012, 10:57 AM)
Yes, there is no specific law saying that 1 day renting = commercial use
but neither said 1 day renting and running like motel is not a commercial use.

Then please always state the cases, and what is verdict as well, and law according to the deliquent tenants issue.  smile.gif
It will help and benefit all, as there is no specific law or guideline to tell landlord what can be done on deliquent tenants issue apart from legal procedure to chase after the owed money. 

Whether it is legal or not, is not down to we think or you think.
It is down to the authority or judge to decide under juridication procedure, the definition of commercial use, whether daily renting to different person is a commercial use or not.
*
I think Dario had pointed out the cases where self help will only land the landlord in trouble. And it is a common knowledge among lawyers with some sense of the law that self help will land the landlord in trouble if the tenant happened to be knowledgeable about the law.

Let me ask you, is stealing RM1 a lesser crime than someone stealing RM100?

1 day, 1 week, 1 month, 1 year make no difference at all. Like Dario had pointed out, a tenant who is on a 2 year contract might be a nuisance and the one on a 1 day contract might be an angel. So which tenant is better?

Like my previous stand, I don't mind good debate and occasional bad advices. I can take and counter those. But when people like Jalsrix comes online and claimed that his lawyers have given such "illegal" advices and to date refuse to name his lawyers, it is dangerous. Newbies might pick the easiest way out since those advices are given by lawyers and because Michaellee is NOT a lawyer, hence his opinion will weigh a lot less. I believe dangerous people to society should be weeded out especially those who stubbornly thinks they are right and continued to use my lawyer says (and yet he got cheated by agents and bankers).
cherroy
post May 25 2012, 11:34 AM

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QUOTE(michaellee @ May 25 2012, 11:06 AM)
I think Dario had pointed out the cases where self help will only land the landlord in trouble. And it is a common knowledge among lawyers with some sense of the law that self help will land the landlord in trouble if the tenant happened to be knowledgeable about the law.

Let me ask you, is stealing RM1 a lesser crime than someone stealing RM100?

1 day, 1 week, 1 month, 1 year make no difference at all. Like Dario had pointed out, a tenant who is on a 2 year contract might be a nuisance and the one on a 1 day contract might be an angel. So which tenant is better?

Like my previous stand, I don't mind good debate and occasional bad advices. I can take and counter those. But when people like Jalsrix comes online and claimed that his lawyers have given such "illegal" advices and to date refuse to name his lawyers, it is dangerous. Newbies might pick the easiest way out since those advices are given by lawyers and because Michaellee is NOT a lawyer, hence his opinion will weigh a lot less. I believe dangerous people to society should be weeded out especially those who stubbornly thinks they are right and continued to use my lawyer says (and yet he got cheated by agents and bankers).
*
Again, whether stealing Rm1 or stealing RM100 is less crime or not, it is not up to we to judge. You or we cannot say it is the same or less.
It is up to legal juridication process to decide.

It is also irresponsible to say renting daily and running like motel has no different than 1 month or 1 years ordinary lease, unless we have precedented case saying it is not illegal to run like motel aka daily renting like commercial.
Don't get me wrong, I neither say renting 1 day is illegal as well.





dariofoo
post May 25 2012, 12:24 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ May 25 2012, 10:57 AM)
Yes, there is no specific law saying that 1 day renting = commercial use
but neither said 1 day renting and running like motel is not a commercial use.

Then please always state the cases, and what is verdict as well, and law according to the deliquent tenants issue.  smile.gif
It will help and benefit all, as there is no specific law or guideline to tell landlord what can be done on deliquent tenants issue apart from legal procedure to chase after the owed money. 

Whether it is legal or not, is not down to we think or you think.
It is down to the authority or judge to decide under juridication procedure, the definition of commercial use, whether daily renting to different person is a commercial use or not.
*
With all due respect, you are looking at it from a wrong angle. What I gather is that you're saying - there's nothing which says that 1 day renting and running like motel is not commercial use.

There is a maxim and general principle in law, derived from English law, that "everything which is not prohibited is allowed". As such, unless there is a general prohibition on it, then it is permissible. As such, one cannot say just because there's nothing in the law which says that "1 day renting and running like motel is not commercial use" then we can presume that is MIGHT or CAN BE DEEMED TO be commercial use.

If we look at the Strata Titles Act, Section 34 provides:

34. Rights of proprietor in his parcel and common property.

(1) Subject to this section and other provisions of this Act, a proprietor shall have-

(a) in relation to his parcel (in the case of a parcel proprietor) the powers conferred by the National Land Code (NLC) on a proprietor in relation to his land;


So, we go back to the NLC. NLC provides for lease of land. Tenancy is also recognised as a irrefutable right of a proprietor, provided that an agreement for a tenancy does not exceed 3 years. If it is more than 3 years, it has to be a lease. And a lease must be registered.

One must note that there is no minimum limit as to tenancy set by the law. As such, even a day's tenancy is considered legal. One cannot equate it to a hotel/motel as for such services, they do not require tenancy agreements to be drawn up. A signature on the registration form confirms that the occupant agrees to be bound by their Rules & Regulations set by the hotel/motel.

For landlords who are going to rent it out on a daily basis, a tenancy agreement still has to be drawn up and executed by the parties and subsequently stamped (if the landlord wants it to be enforceable and admitted as evidence in Court if a dispute arises).

So, we've basically established that even a daily tenancy by a proprietor is not commercial in nature and is not against the law with regard to the National Land Code and the Strata Titles Act.

Now, in the event that the tenant causes nuisance or trouble or transgresses upon the rights, use and enjoyment of OTHER proprietors and/or the common property of the condo, then yes, there is a breach in TORT. In this scenario, the other proprietors or the MC/JMB can take action against the tenant and/or proprietor for such tort.

The remedy for the other proprietors or the MC/JMB is to seek damages/compensation. That is all. The other proprietors or the MC/JMB cannot prohibit the landlord from subsequently renting out the premises to another party. That would be infringing upon the legal right of the proprietor to the use and disposal of his private property as he pleases. If another problem arises, another legal suit has to be filed again. The process is separate and commences again from scratch. If there are any losses/damage, then the tenant/proprietor, or both, must pay damages to the party who has suffered loss.

On another note, if there is sufficient proof to show that there is a commercial aspect to the rental (i.e. it is essentially a motel business disguised as a tenancy), then a complaint to the Local Authority can be done. Evidence such as:
1. The issuance of receipts with the landlord/proprietor being represented by a commercial entity in name, or even a name of a motel; or
2. Advertising and notices with the landlord/proprietor being represented by a commercial entity in name.

If there is black and white evidence of the above, then a complaint to the Local Authority (LA) can be justified. The LA can take action and fine the individual/company concerned for breach of municipal laws, eg for trading without a proper license, trading without proper signage/signboard. The Inland Revenue Board can also take action if they find out that the entity has not been declaring their profits for the purposes of taxation (as we can assume that the rental is paid by way of cash). In all such cases, the proprietor would be fined and warned.

However, if the scenario is such there is no receipts, no advertisements (depicting a hotel/motel scenario) and no representation by a legal entity that the premises are for commercial usage of a hotel/motel, then IT IS NOT ILLEGAL.

I hope the above clarification suffices. icon_rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by dariofoo: May 25 2012, 12:26 PM
michaellee
post May 25 2012, 05:54 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ May 25 2012, 11:34 AM)
Again, whether stealing Rm1 or stealing RM100 is less crime or not, it is not up to we to judge. You or we cannot say it is the same or less.
It is up to legal juridication process to decide.

It is also irresponsible to say renting daily and running like motel has no different than 1 month or 1 years ordinary lease, unless we have precedented case saying it is not illegal to run like motel aka daily renting like commercial.
Don't get me wrong, I neither say renting 1 day is illegal as well.
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I believe Dario has given the full picture notworthy.gif . I truly have nothing more to add.
Backkom
post May 25 2012, 08:19 PM

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Dariofoo taikor, so citing example of what's happening in my condo:
1. The boutique hotel is being advertised online in agoda.com and many other online hotel booking websites.
2. DOMC and house rules clearly prohibits subletting - which in my laymen understanding is that the resident(s) of the unit should either be the owner or tenant that has a tenancy agreement with the rightful parcel owner.
3. The "hotel" resident would not have registered themselves with the management office as resident (most of the times they don't even register as visitors).

Would all these form part of the "evidence" as breach of law/DOMC/house rules which gives the JMB the right to shut down the "hotel"?
dariofoo
post May 25 2012, 10:03 PM

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QUOTE(Backkom @ May 25 2012, 08:19 PM)
Would all these form part of the "evidence" as breach of law/DOMC/house rules which gives the JMB the right to shut down the "hotel"?
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I've already stated the position in my earlier post, so I'll post the relevant portion here again. If you think it's too long then just read the parts in bold:



The remedy for the other proprietors or the MC/JMB is to seek damages/compensation. That is all. The other proprietors or the MC/JMB cannot prohibit the landlord from subsequently renting out the premises to another party. That would be infringing upon the legal right of the proprietor to the use and disposal of his private property as he pleases. If another problem arises, another legal suit has to be filed again. The process is separate and commences again from scratch. If there are any losses/damage, then the tenant/proprietor, or both, must pay damages to the party who has suffered loss.

On another note, if there is sufficient proof to show that there is a commercial aspect to the rental (i.e. it is essentially a motel business disguised as a tenancy), then a complaint to the Local Authority can be done. Evidence such as:
1. The issuance of receipts with the landlord/proprietor being represented by a commercial entity in name, or even a name of a motel; or
2. Advertising and notices with the landlord/proprietor being represented by a commercial entity in name.

If there is black and white evidence of the above, then a complaint to the Local Authority (LA) can be justified. The LA can take action and fine the individual/company concerned for breach of municipal laws, eg for trading without a proper license, trading without proper signage/signboard. The Inland Revenue Board can also take action if they find out that the entity has not been declaring their profits for the purposes of taxation (as we can assume that the rental is paid by way of cash). In all such cases, the proprietor would be fined and warned.

icon_rolleyes.gif
Backkom
post May 25 2012, 11:06 PM

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Thanks Dario for your patience. I'm just trying to understand how we can improve our odds (from the JMB point of view) "legally".

Need your help with explanation in more laymen terms:
1. JMB to seek damages/compensation - didn't really understand this. Are you referring to physical damages done by these day-rent tenants towards common properties? Or inconvenience/nuisance caused to the other residents?
2. Say the hotel operator has a "commercial" name, but that name/entity is not registered with the government/municipal, can we still hold that entity liable? Cause since it's not registered, we would not be able to link it to the hotel operator/owner/landlord.

Thanks!
dariofoo
post May 26 2012, 06:30 PM

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QUOTE(Backkom @ May 25 2012, 11:06 PM)
Need your help with explanation in more laymen terms:
1. JMB to seek damages/compensation - didn't really understand this. Are you referring to physical damages done by these day-rent tenants towards common properties? Or inconvenience/nuisance caused to the other residents?
2. Say the hotel operator has a "commercial" name, but that name/entity is not registered with the government/municipal, can we still hold that entity liable? Cause since it's not registered, we would not be able to link it to the hotel operator/owner/landlord.
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1. Both.
2. Doesn't matter if not registered. That's what you want - the fact they are running a business which is not registered. The proprietor/owner will be responsible nonetheless. That would be the party who would be penalised by the authorities.
Backkom
post May 26 2012, 08:53 PM

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QUOTE(dariofoo @ May 26 2012, 06:30 PM)
1. Both.
2. Doesn't matter if not registered. That's what you want - the fact they are running a business which is not registered. The proprietor/owner will be responsible nonetheless. That would be the party who would be penalised by the authorities.
*
Thanks a lot!
My other lawyer friend also suggested that I go through Hotel Act, and can pursue it via Ministry of Tourism and IRB thumbup.gif

http://www.thesundaily.my/news/187865

Excerpt from Act 626 - Hotel
"Interpretation

2. In this Act, unless the context otherwise requires—

“this Act” includes regulations made under this Act;

“Commissioner” means the Commissioner of the City of Kuala Lumpur appointed under section 4 of the Federal Capital Act 1960 [Act 190];

“hotel” means any premises where—

(a) persons are harboured or lodged for hire or reward of any kind; and

(b) rooms are furnished by the owner, lessee, principal tenant, occupier or manager of such premises for the domestic use of the persons so harboured or lodged,

but does not include—

(aa) any premises on which the activities mentioned in paragraphs (a) and (b) are being carried on by or on behalf of the Federal Government or the Government of any State or any statutory body established by any written law;

(bb) any private healthcare facility, child care centre or care centre the establishment or operation of which is controlled or regulated under any other written law;

(cc) any hostel established by or on behalf of any private educational institution or private higher educational institution and controlled or regulated under any other written law; or

(dd) any premises let out on landlord and tenant basis;"

Now I understand your point - with the receipt from the illegal hotel, that's all we need thumbup.gif


This post has been edited by Backkom: May 26 2012, 09:37 PM
lainux
post Aug 10 2012, 12:30 AM

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QUOTE(dariofoo @ May 26 2012, 06:30 PM)
1. Both.
2. Doesn't matter if not registered. That's what you want - the fact they are running a business which is not registered. The proprietor/owner will be responsible nonetheless. That would be the party who would be penalised by the authorities.
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So what is the right way to do it if one is to rent out daily?

1) so if letting out as a company with receipt is constitute as commercial or hotel? so, what happens if a company owns a prop and renting it out yearly, and tenant asks for receipt?

dariofoo
post Aug 10 2012, 12:38 AM

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QUOTE(lainux @ Aug 10 2012, 12:30 AM)
So what is the right way to do it if one is to rent out daily?

1) so if letting out as a company with receipt is constitute as commercial or hotel?  so, what happens if a company owns a prop and renting it out yearly, and tenant asks for receipt?
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Right way to do it in what sense? If you're renting it out daily it is still considered a business. If you rent it out on a yearly basis that is different, as you would prepare a proper tenancy agreement and it would make the relationship that of a landlord and tenant. That is legal.

If daily and with a receipt, that is clearly running a business, and if the law catches up on you, they can shut you down. icon_rolleyes.gif

lainux
post Aug 10 2012, 12:43 AM

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To another poster question about controlling crowd.

how is controlling daily rent tenant any diff than friends of tenant visiting? If you can't control visitors coming in, then one should focus on fixing that issue first.

one should look at the problem, rather than the tenant's period of stay. Like another poster has stated, long term tenants could cause more problem too. So, the problem is managing the building, not managing the rental type.

would you prefer a yearly bad tenant living across you or a daily bad tenant across you? w/ daily, you might be annoyed few times a year, but w/ long term, you might be annoyed few days a week!

Don't just w/o investigation & facts, claim short term renters as bad!

if you can tighten the security to screen every visitor, then you have better security regardless of whether he is visitor, daily renter, owner, long term renter.


Added on August 10, 2012, 12:47 am
QUOTE(dariofoo @ Aug 10 2012, 12:38 AM)
Right way to do it in what sense? If you're renting it out daily it is still considered a business. If you rent it out on a yearly basis that is different, as you would prepare a proper tenancy agreement and it would make the relationship that of a landlord and tenant.  That is legal.

If daily and with a receipt, that is clearly running a business, and if the law catches up on you, they can shut you down. icon_rolleyes.gif
*
right way to rent it out daily. to me, renting it out yearly could be considered as business as well.

when will it be considered as a business? x=1 day? x=1 week?

what is the shortest possible period to avoid being considered as a biz?

just saying, assuming how a legal non business tenancy is considered.

1) renting period: x till y(in short n days)
2) draft & sign tenancy agreement
3) landlord as individual

so will it become illegal if:
- no tenancy is signed
- landlord is a company & receipt is issued


This post has been edited by lainux: Aug 10 2012, 12:59 AM
dariofoo
post Aug 10 2012, 01:01 AM

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QUOTE(lainux @ Aug 10 2012, 12:43 AM)
what is the shortest possible period to avoid being considered as a biz?

just saying, assuming how a tenancy is considered.

1) renting period: x till y(in short n days)
2) draft & sign tenancy agreement
3) landlord as company or individual
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No.2 is enough to show existence of tenancy. You can even have a daily tenancy. However,is it practical to prepare, sign and stamp a tenancy agreement for a one day rental? But, if you want to really show that you are renting it out as a tenancy and not an unlicensed hotel, that is the only way to go about it, as much as it is not practical.

Landlord whether company or individual makes little difference. Earnings by way of rental is taxable in both scenarios.
cherroy
post Aug 10 2012, 01:21 AM

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QUOTE(lainux @ Aug 10 2012, 12:43 AM)
To another poster question about controlling crowd.

how is controlling daily rent tenant any diff than friends of tenant visiting?  If you can't control visitors coming in, then one should focus on fixing that issue first.

one should look at the problem, rather than the tenant's period of stay.  Like another poster has stated, long term tenants could cause more problem too.  So, the problem is managing the building, not managing the rental type.

would you prefer a yearly bad tenant living across you or a daily bad tenant across you?  w/ daily, you might be annoyed few times a year, but w/ long term, you might be annoyed few days a week! 

Don't just w/o investigation & facts, claim short term renters as bad!

if you can tighten the security to screen every visitor, then you have better security regardless of whether he is visitor, daily renter, owner, long term renter.


*
Long term tenants does not mean it must be good, but for security purpose, it is easier for them to control, monitor etc.
It is impossible for security personnel to control and monitor if the properties is full of stranger everyday and changing everyday.
Try to run a management company or security company with that, you will find and encounter problem to enforce a tight security in this kind of situation.

Just like a mall, it is impossible to screen every visitors coming in, as everyday you see stranger and face keep on changing.
If screening everyone, people complain, and also causing lot of time and effort by the security personnel, causing delay in access, car access etc.

But with long term tenants mostly, security personnel can identify who is who, and even their routine visitors.

No one want their properties or home being passed by stranger that keep on changing everyday except for the party wish to turn their properties into daily rent and reap profit from it. No offence. smile.gif

Yes bad long tenants is as bad. But we are talking about increase of security risk with extreme short term /daily tenants.

It is not only increase the security risk, but can make the property value less appealing for future appreciation for genuine future own stay buyer.

Backkom
post Aug 10 2012, 07:21 AM

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QUOTE(lainux @ Aug 10 2012, 12:43 AM)
To another poster question about controlling crowd.

how is controlling daily rent tenant any diff than friends of tenant visiting?  If you can't control visitors coming in, then one should focus on fixing that issue first.

one should look at the problem, rather than the tenant's period of stay.  Like another poster has stated, long term tenants could cause more problem too.  So, the problem is managing the building, not managing the rental type.

would you prefer a yearly bad tenant living across you or a daily bad tenant across you?  w/ daily, you might be annoyed few times a year, but w/ long term, you might be annoyed few days a week! 

Don't just w/o investigation & facts, claim short term renters as bad!

if you can tighten the security to screen every visitor, then you have better security regardless of whether he is visitor, daily renter, owner, long term renter.
Hmm I personally am a direct victim from all the nuisance caused by short term renters.

Once they rented the place to do birthday party, my entire Saturday night was ruined by the non stop screaming and shouting in the unit.
Numerous times people got drunk and made noise in the unit until I had to get the guards to come and remind them that this is not a pub.
Of course there was once a whole bunch of people got drunk at the corridor, guards came to warn them 3 times, they argued with the guard. At the end the guards had no choice but to call in police.

And my neighbour has 2 young children - would you want your children to see these kinda nonsense day in day out?

So well, you can say all you want. But I can testify to anyone about all the problems we had thanks to these short term renters.
ungka
post Aug 10 2012, 07:46 AM

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lazy to read all.. and i'm not in this field either
with all those acts etc..
just wanna put a simple point of view that might be related to topic(might be only)

there's diff between commercial and residential zoning.
i bet there's a reason for such other than taxing purposes.

like the case above if my neighborhood become like pub place and feeling less secure i wont like it.
while yes even a permanent residents might have frequent visits but it's kinda diff from a daily out of nowhere people come and go.

in both matters fishy things could be done to.. not to say a permanent resident wont drug deal etc..

it's just point of view i think.
people will tend to see the daily renting one as not comfortable

that's why i think it's best (not must)commercial purpose place in the commercial zone and home for home

i think it's about consideration. especially a condo type.




lainux
post Aug 10 2012, 09:59 AM

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QUOTE(dariofoo @ Aug 10 2012, 01:01 AM)
No.2 is enough to show existence of tenancy. You can even have a daily tenancy. However,is it practical to prepare, sign and stamp a tenancy agreement for a one day rental? But, if you want to really show that you are renting it out as a tenancy and not an unlicensed hotel, that is the only way to go about it, as much as it is not practical.

Landlord whether company or individual makes little difference. Earnings by way of rental is taxable in both scenarios.
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Thanks, so the real way to protect one self is to sign a tenancy agreement. Will electronic version work? Must it be stamped?

So, if a tenancy isn't stamped, one can be sued for running as a biz? regardless of the period.

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