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 PROTON SAGA BLM, FL, FLX CLUB V23 - Dead or Alive!

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davidke20
post May 30 2012, 02:34 PM

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Dares,thanks for the input, I'm not asking for permission. I'm asking where to do & how much does dyno run cost. I'm trying hard not to spark anything around.

V12k, thank you for the full statement. Again I would like to emphasize, its NOT that I don't believe in modding those wouldn't release more horses, I'm trying to prove the effect with dyno. What left is,will you help to recommend me the test. Wouldn't demand a super discount like what you get, atleast if you can provide a platform with a reasonable price to dyno run, I get to benchmark, mod and dyno again to find out how effective the mods are. We all get a bigger picture of what mod gives what kind of improvement to our SAGA.

Sorry I didn't know CVT can't spin on dyno roller. So, is there any other way we can find out the actual output? I've taken a ride on your car last time, it does felt different. Just how much you got from the mod, that is more interesting IMO.
davidke20
post May 30 2012, 03:09 PM

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QUOTE(V12Kompressor @ May 30 2012, 02:44 PM)
Its not cant spin. It will spin but the figure will not be accurate. The figure will surely goes beyond manufacturer claim. Actual output need to be measured on crank itself or find a way to "lock" the CVT so that it wont be variable.
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Learned new things hmm.gif so does SAT help? I've seen auto tranny went dyno with no problem. Ofcoz I understand there will be slippage due to clutching/torque conversion, but that will only happen on higher RPM/max torque? No?

Anyway, can we meet up to discuss my dyno projet? The least I can do to prove the mods is from what a stock BLM to mod BLM dyno run. A small discount would be a plus, so I no need to blow my wallet away even before I start modding the car.
davidke20
post May 30 2012, 04:36 PM

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QUOTE(iXora.ix @ May 30 2012, 03:44 PM)
siuyi,

does it means.. our gaga just install front strut should sufficient enough already rite..

cause i also not going time attack at sepang even go downhill genting.. just song song letak and feel difff when corner only smile.gif
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Thickness/existence of front ARB can be very noticeable when you literally ATTACK corner. Whenever you negotiate a corner, there will have more force on the outer wheel than the inner wheel. ARB is there to make sure G-force being distributed to the inner wheel(use the outer side force to pull the inner side down), safe to said keep your car on the ground. For example, when you attack right corner, your left wheel will tanggung more force, where as you may actually lift up your right wheel. When you have a strong ARB holding on the chassis, it will pull the right wheel down.

As for the rear ARB for GAGA, mainly decoration. Torsion beam is too damn strong. If you able to bend it, I'd say your the corner you're trying to attack has got your car terbabas ady laugh.gif To install rear ARB for GAGA, it may increase stiffness due to less free play. I henbrek drifted a showroom FLX SE during test drive, the rear doesn't seem to lift the ground a mil.

Generally, without ARB to attack right corner, your car tend to buang kiri. With ARB, it helps to pull your right wheel down. In short, it increase your corner limit, BUT its general characteristic will become UNDERSTEER. Meaning when your tayar tak boleh tahan the amount of force being sent, your car can drift even worst than the 1 without ARB. To put it simple, without ARB if over speed corner jadi buang longkang/power drift. With ARB, you have higher corner speed limit, but if over that limit you tend to berputar-putar macam gasing.

If you're NOT a hardcore time trail kaki(literally attack every apex in shortest time+fastest speed possible), you probably wont get any benefit from the ARB. The only thing you feel is stiffness. If you hit a small stone during corner, your car will buang, but that's it.

All the above experience are obtained from my previous vehicles, mainly my RX2,808 and KE20 for motorsport purposes. I have not mod my GAGA - YET, correct me if the above statement can't be apply to GAGA.
davidke20
post May 30 2012, 05:06 PM

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QUOTE(dares @ May 30 2012, 04:55 PM)
front buang or rear buang, or all buang?
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front buang, rear got tosyen bim jor rclxms.gif but then when front buang, rear wheel will change track and follow where your head go la. so, regardless. No ARB, masuk longkang. Got ARB, berpusing-pusing.

This post has been edited by davidke20: May 30 2012, 05:08 PM
davidke20
post May 30 2012, 06:32 PM

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QUOTE(dares @ May 30 2012, 05:08 PM)
Basically you mean either way also understeer jorĀ   doh.gif
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blush.gif OVERSTEER is, dunno how come I type UNDER instead. blush.gif I ady explained it will push in and spin like gasing, so that should be over and I mistaken type UNDER tongue.gif

Err... blink.gif I don't know how to elaborate it. Will you borrow me your ride? I can have you sit on the passenger seat and show you how I meant OVERSTEER when you have an ARB/thicken ARB compare to stock car. blink.gif I supposed you're not going to let me touch your car geh, consider all my embarrassing history blush.gif Anyway, let's just put it simpler way may be that helps to explain. I wanted to emphasize with ARB is tend to OVERSTEER whereas and I mistaken write UNDER. However, with ARB/thicken ARB type of overspeed cornering, you'll have split second of opportunity to negotiate your steering wheel, try to safe a mishap. Whereas a car without ARB went understeer, that is just BASIC lose control and very little thing you can do other than braised for impact blink.gif

Sorry for the confusion blush.gif

By the way, a good read regarding ARB. Please find it useful.

This post has been edited by davidke20: May 30 2012, 07:21 PM
davidke20
post May 30 2012, 08:48 PM

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QUOTE(sagacokelat @ May 30 2012, 08:32 PM)
anyone can answer this huhu im facing this problem huhu
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Change to BLM standard spring, you wouldn't have that anymore thumbup.gif
davidke20
post May 30 2012, 09:38 PM

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QUOTE(sagacokelat @ May 30 2012, 09:02 PM)
aiyakk!!! if install rear strut bar can ka?
oem spring very lembut lo + to high oso, gayat woo~
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tongue.gif no way to fix la bro, or may be there is I didn't know. According to my understanding on the car's foot work, either hard or soft. Install strut bar will NOT solve your swaying problem. Strut bar is there to avoid your chassis being compress during high speed cornering. From my experience, lowering the car with progressive spring + terbalik absorber(sucking type instead of pushing type), that will really glue your ride on the ground thumbup.gif I was using this type of absorber on my KE20. There is very little chance the car will get flicking out of the line on uneven road. HOWEVER, you'll suffer insane gravity pull/rejection from your car. You'll feel every uneven terrain as a BOUNCE instead. I still remember there was once I brought along 2 of my mates to Penang to visit chick there, after JURU toll there's a stretch of uneven road, when reaching the Penang bridge toll, we had to stop cause my mate at the back start vomiting. As I stopped the car, the passenger also start vomiting. In the end, I smell those crap I also beh tahan roll down the window start vomiting. UEEkkk.... sweat.gif Please consider GAGA is very "tall", provided FLX SE came with 15" wheels, added to the height, the car sway abit is fairly normal la laugh.gif

This post has been edited by davidke20: May 30 2012, 09:38 PM
davidke20
post May 31 2012, 08:55 AM

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Moaning Z1,moaning ebibodi!

Here is a little sign0006.gif thing would like to share with you. This morning having breakfast at nearby restoran, 1 of the customer galoh with the restoran tauke,saying the food not worthy & expansive. He was shouting & brag he can buy over the restoran, he grabbed RM10 throw to the tauke shouted keep the change lansily.then... A tow truck was outside towing his "H" brand "A" previous model car. He rushed out to stop it to no avoil as the tow truck got warrant to tow his car due to no payment for 5 consecutive months shocking.gif

Out of baik hati, helped him to understand the situation & found he just settled his whole loan YESTERDAY, whilst the tow truck database wasn't updated. Whilst sending him to Jln YKS to discard the reposession, he was shouting how much he can afford & he offered me RM1000 reward for being a helping hand. I gently rejected as I'm not allowed to take "carrots" due to anti money laundering. He was cheered & shared to me saying he just had a lucky hand lately to settle all his debts from sports toto doh.gif

Before left him @ the impound, he again offered me a job saying he can trust me shakehead.gif Again I gently rejected his proposal. Learned a morale that this kind of SUDDEN RICH probably won't last long. Judging on the way he behave, spending purposeless cash on ego. My friend, EGO worth how much? Its either PRICELESS as you can never buy it, or its PRICELESS as it worth nothing. If I were the tauke restaurant, I would have let him humiliate me by throwing RM100 bill on my face 1000 times laugh.gif Or can turn around, take away his food ask him to leave immediately icon_idea.gif

In the end, I hope that man survive his fortune for understand not every person has a price & to spend his fortune wisely. For those who can't afford to pay car installment, kindly call up your bank get them restructure and put on hold of your current monthly payment. Tell them your current situation and demand for a grace period(for a price ofcoz). Bank may offer you an alternative "service" period to service a minimum payment for a certain period before your financial become stable again, instead of after 2 months no payment, they will issue warrant to tow your car!

True story, not implying anyone,anything. Just friendly sharing.
davidke20
post May 31 2012, 11:42 AM

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QUOTE(dares @ May 31 2012, 11:01 AM)
Still got ppl having trouble paying, for example David's Gaga's ex-owner  blink.gif
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Ya, now my turn to suffer. 750/month! doh.gif
davidke20
post May 31 2012, 01:42 PM

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QUOTE(dares @ May 31 2012, 11:54 AM)
Do you wish you bought a Viva instead?  hmm.gif
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BiBA also 720, that's why GAGAed laugh.gif


Added on May 31, 2012, 1:55 pm
QUOTE(DaBestOne @ May 31 2012, 01:24 PM)
why so expensive one hmm.gif
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Not enuf donpeymen tongue.gif oso tot of faster repaymen faster "lut sun", ended up cekik own leher sad.gif

This post has been edited by davidke20: May 31 2012, 01:55 PM
davidke20
post May 31 2012, 09:01 PM

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Have any of you install hydrogen tank? Am thinking of electrolisys hydrogen system to help FC brows.gif
davidke20
post May 31 2012, 10:29 PM

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QUOTE(zeone @ May 31 2012, 08:27 PM)
A simple circuit controlled by driver's door sensor switch is good enuf. Even if it's on in daytime, current consumption by LEDs is minimal...

So to those of yu who still wld like to hv an LED Keyhole Light...What are yu waiting for??

Like Nike says..."Juz do it!!!"

Let's do it, guys!!
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user posted image
blink.gif What key ring light? Tapping into door switch to light up the ring is not purposeful la, for decoration only. So, tell me, once you disarm your alarm, you get into the car, what do you do immediately? Ignite? Or shut the door? If your key ring light off after you shut your door at night time, you still need a torch light to search for the "hole" laugh.gif That's why with timer/slow dim is recommended.

QUOTE(zeone @ May 31 2012, 09:09 PM)
1 of my relatives did same to his H Accord. In the end he dismantled it altho it did save a bit...
Mainly cos of high risk of explosion!!
(NB. Yu do kno that Hydrogen is a VERY explosive gas should it be mixed with air & ignited somehow...?)

Continuous maintenance needed.

Frankly NOT worth the minimal savings....

ps. Our petrol is still among the lowest in the region, rite?
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Friend of mine in Phoenix already did his lawn mower running on WATER! Cost of building it as expansive as a BUICK laugh.gif Besides of the carburator & block, everything stainless steel, including intake/exhaust/piston/valve/pressured hydrogen tank. However, according to him drinking water is as expansive as petrol over there doh.gif Charging the hydro tank is another pain in the butt. In order to mow his lawn, he'd charge the pressure tank whole night for a 15 minutes garden work rclxub.gif So, now his STAINLESS STEEL LAWN MOWER is back to 91 Regular unsure.gif

According to him, hydrogen highly combustible and ease of ignition with air mixture. HOWEVER, most of the ignition DO happened IN a contained area. For example, his lawn mower with the pressure tank with compressed hydrogen can be a hydrogen bomb if it ignite the tank. He did clarified normal hydrogen kit we used on motor vehicle will generate a small amount of hydrogen that spray into the intake system, some of it already leaked out. The remainder helps to improve combustion, whereas the others will be release to the atmosphere. Therefore, without a STORAGE/PRESSURE tank to store the hydrogen, there is 0 risk notworthy.gif

I've got those information since 2004, but until today still haven't get to really put it into action.

QUOTE(dares @ May 31 2012, 09:30 PM)
Got such thing in reality?  blink.gif

Straight go nuclear power la
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user posted image

Nah... blink.gif
davidke20
post May 31 2012, 11:51 PM

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QUOTE(zeone @ May 31 2012, 10:52 PM)
Juz 4discussion sake...ok Bro?

Diagram abv is VERY simplified sys...really...

In reality, there's nothing like 0 risk...true?
Juz need 2think abt it in more detail...

If sys is made of hi class reliable, strong & leak-proof materials & parts...probably...
Then costs gonna shoot way up high! Phew!
Then how long to recover "investments"?

Moreover there's need 2use suitable acid 2add 2the distilled water. Tap water wld result in lotsa "scum"?

Need 2ctrl rate & vol of Hidrogen gas produced & channelled into intake manifold...etc., etc.

Still worth it?

YOU decide...
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That is when my friend make it a PURE hydrogen driven motor. For vehicle use, widely available on ebay
davidke20
post Jun 1 2012, 01:38 PM

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Am visiting supplier tomolo. 2 things call for bulk order(if any)



Cap ayam BM horn - RM9/pair
HKStyle(NOT HKS) vacuum gauge, smoked meter - RM85(negotiable, depends on volume)

For now, 3 units cap ayam BM horn for SiuYi, still got 1 spare unit for Huzaifa, but yet to meet him up. If any of you interested, kindly PM. Remember, PM only. FYI, I'm NOT making any profit from the bulk, pure friendly sharing effort. If you have cheaper source, feel free to propose. wink.gif

This post has been edited by davidke20: Jun 1 2012, 01:44 PM
davidke20
post Jun 1 2012, 09:48 PM

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QUOTE(dares @ Jun 1 2012, 06:07 PM)
My friend open my car door hentam tiang,  whistling.gif  saje

vmad.gif  vmad.gif

luckily no scratch, but that time my heart really sink into my stomach  cry.gif
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blink.gif I tot u okey with it geh? Coz last TT at Sri Petaling, Kenji also open his door & slammed on your passenger door blink.gif and you looked whistling.gif relek je

But the most memorable thing is find your fried rice still on the roof after cumbak frm test drive laugh.gif
davidke20
post Jun 2 2012, 10:48 AM

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QUOTE(drexchan @ Jun 2 2012, 01:16 AM)
user posted image
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So, not quite getting what do you want to point out.

The picture seems tying to elaborate force on right wheel, which implicate on hard left turn. To me, the tiny anti roll bar is steeper(less effectie) compare to the beem behind, which is still quite straight. Logically, the beem is actually using the down force on the right wheel to force the left wheel stick on the ground. Whereas the ARB in the picture looks given way. IMO, the ARB in the picture has minimum effect in the presence of the beem.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Not much experience with rear ARB.
davidke20
post Jun 2 2012, 12:28 PM

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QUOTE(calvin_kenni @ Jun 2 2012, 11:20 AM)
Was driving around in melaka town finding dinner..
then this motor fella did see me braking at traffic lights..
ended up banging into my car..
after that he sped through the red lights and ran away..  mad.gif
and here's the end result

user posted image

*heart broken*  doh.gif

anyone knows how to fix this?  cry.gif
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Pls check bracket got broken or not. If broke, pls take out & replace 1st, if not the flexibility will make more paint fall off.

To repair surface, recommend to patch the ruptured surface with clay/fibre glass,both got pros & cons. After dry, sand it flat & repaint your bumper lo.
davidke20
post Jun 4 2012, 01:43 AM

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QUOTE(mieza @ Jun 3 2012, 03:34 PM)
Usually I will slow down when approaching the apex and start maintain acceleration by tekan minyak at corner so I don't have to brake during turning.. After the corner I just continue pressing minyak because my car already in momentum to accelerate..

ps/: like I said I can do this on my mum car, but Saga quite difficult because I feel not so stable..
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Smooth driving does help maintain traction, instead of letting go of acceleration. Please refer Driving Smoothness & Traction towards the bottom part of the webpage.

QUOTE(dares @ Jun 3 2012, 03:46 PM)
At least not like this "careful" fella driving the new Elantra in front of my car, when I was driving home the previous TT nite.

On a relatively straight road. Slight curve to the left, brake. Slight curve to the right, brake. wasn't even going fast, 70-80kmh like that. I see his brake lamp on off on off til pening  rclxub.gif  rclxub.gif
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Not a BLM rite? I do that alot when kena cucuk rolleyes.gif


QUOTE(+Newbie+ @ Jun 3 2012, 04:46 PM)
I know what you mean, man. I hate idiotic drivers like that. It's like the fella is driving for the first time and doesn't know how to gauge the speed and size of the car. Yet they like to hog the fast lane. I normally find a way to overtake idiots like that. I'd go crazy staying behind them.
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Who me? I let you overtake laugh.gif don't "diong" me will do

QUOTE(+Newbie+ @ Jun 3 2012, 04:46 PM)
My advice to you would be to get front strut bars. You'll love it. Trust me.
All cars suffer in traffic jam. I know how that Sunway jam is. I think other cars would get similar mileage like yours. When you're sitting still with the air cond on, it's petrol flushed down the toilet whatever car you choose. Worst case, maybe other cars can get only slightly better.

Be that as it may, traffic jams are the Saga's nemesis. The main weakness is totally exposed right there. It sucks a lot of fuel idling (due to huge air cond compressor) and the constant start stop traffic means you're perpetually stuck in the weakest part of the Saga's power band. If you're on the FLX CVT or manual, consider yourself lucky. I get worse on a Saga BLM auto.

The consumption of a 1.3 FLX manual in mixed driving should be around 11 - 12km/l?

And as always, when measuring fuel consumption, always pump to full tank, reset mileage, drive like normal, pump full tank again, then measure mileage driven vs quantity of fuel in second full pump. Try to stick to km/l or l/100km.
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Due to school holiday, 7am at Jln Kuching is like a drag track! ISWAGA 1.3 - 16.2km/l recorded last Friday. icon_idea.gif as of my BLM 1.3M... be it jam/no jam, never gets beyond 12km/l shakehead.gif
davidke20
post Jun 4 2012, 11:16 AM

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QUOTE(+Newbie+ @ Jun 4 2012, 10:14 AM)
I see. Well, I guess you gotta get used to it, then. Most important is be gentle. That article David gave is a good read. Explains everything a lot better.
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Last time we only have 14.4kbps modem for internet, and very expansib. The only way we learn is watch OPTION/HOT VERSION, then test it out by ourself. Can't affrord Stadium carpark, go industrial area put ice cream con & start practice laugh.gif Have no idea why, but we know do not release gas pedal to avoid "lut tau", vice versa step on it will result "tui tau lut mei" smile.gif fun stuff every moment to try out by yourself(provided if u have a spare car)
davidke20
post Jun 4 2012, 11:48 AM

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QUOTE(huzaifa136 @ Jun 4 2012, 10:48 AM)
semi-syn oil, depends on sc, usually petronas syntium oil
drain plug + oil filter

as mentioned in the proton edar website, should be 122.74

other than that not necessary

proton edar also have this guideline in their website
http://www.proton-edar.com.my/pdf/procareP...0Saga%20FLX.pdf


Added on June 4, 2012, 11:04 am

does it means that u took the bent/curve slowly? is this how u drive karak?
in my case, last weekend travel to hometown kelantan via karak, as usual i like karak
into the curve if right hand curve i dare to speed up/accelerate and get as close as safety permit to the longkang or white line
but for left hand curve, i got illusion that i'll be hitting the rail sooner or latter even if it's not close as the right hand curve

so far i've nvr lose rear end stability on saga into a corner
i've installed spring buffer on my saga, does that make a difference?
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Got watch Initial D ka? Ebo3 dikalahkan FC3S bcoz sked of opposite trafik. Your case is the other way round, u no sked opposite trafik, but the longkang. To conclude, you need to be more Takumi, entry longkang with front wheel to gain full apex traction, whereas rear wheel masuk longkang to gain full acceleration before complete kornering! laugh.gif That's usual la bro. The point is try to menten speed to help tyre traction, not about attcking corner. Whereas, spring buffer helps to an extend of kasi spring 1xround less bounce. IMO, tak beza sangat la. Infact I felt imbalancing of bodyroll after spring buffered. Plan to change rim/tyre soon & take back out the buffers.

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