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> Singapore vs Brunei - 50 Years Economy Progress

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SUStat3179
post May 5 2012, 08:44 PM

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QUOTE(MR_alien @ May 5 2012, 08:26 PM)
SG vs brunei..there are few difference
SG is braggy..brunei is keeping it low profile
SG more advance..brunei stays ordinary
SG hard to survive...brunei many welfare/goodies
in the end....brunei is still a better place to live in
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Singapore is braggy because they deserve to be braggy. They have worked hard, smart and thought way ahead from the rest of countries in ASEAN.
Tell me, which other country in this world could achieve what Singapore has achieved based on their circumstances?

And who says Brunei likes to do low profile?

In Brunei, everything was controlled by the Sultan. If you read the scandals about the Brunei Sultan and his brothers are in it would make you blush.
All the monies they earn, they squandered by joli-joli and making bad investment decisions.

The only saving grace is that Brunei has a low population.

About Brunei's welfare and goodies...one day like any minerals, the oil will run out. Once it does, where does that country have the money to continue to give goodies to their people?

Point is, Brunei is comfortable now. But it is a country without a future.
SUStat3179
post May 5 2012, 08:50 PM

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Basically this article is about Brains v Natural Wealth.

Natural Wealth will solve all your problems in the short run, but will make your leaders complacent and unable or unwilling to plan strategically for the future. Once the Natural Wealth runs out and you have no plan, to turn around would be almost impossible as your neighbors would have slaughtered you economically.

But if you really on Brains only to survive, planning is vital and you could not afford to make big mistakes. The leaders have to be constantly on their toes and their country will always make decisions that effect them 30-40 years down the line.

This post has been edited by tat3179: May 5 2012, 09:15 PM
SUStat3179
post May 5 2012, 08:51 PM

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QUOTE(YameteOniichan @ May 5 2012, 08:29 PM)
we should make more palm tree's
more and more palm tree's and more palm tree's

palm oil is the future.
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More like because we have no choice since we have already lost high tech to the likes of Singapore, Taiwan and Korea.
SUStat3179
post May 5 2012, 09:02 PM

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QUOTE(MR_alien @ May 5 2012, 08:51 PM)
1st Q...Hong Kong, they're the head of asia for a reason
and when i refer to low profile..meaning wealth...the only way u see how wealthy brunei is to see the sultan's car collection
and brunei as 1 of the richest and low population, they can last long...unlike UAE where they just spend it all
got future or not...still need to see how they do but as a "bruneians"...its VERY VERY GOOOOD
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They have beaten Hong Kong which after WWII was way more economically advanced than Singapore and many other Asian countries during the 50s because of their status as a British Crown Colony. Heck, the Singaporeans are proud because they beat Hong Kong recently and don't even bother about the news that they surpassed Malaysia.

Hong Kong was their rival, not Malaysia.

Read the article.

Like I said, you are looking in the short term. No matter how much oil Brunei has now, it will run out. The article states that more than 90 percent of Brunei's economy is oil based. They almost have no industrial base and no knowledge worker base. Their people are not productive and I think depends on the oil money their government hand to them. In fact, the article states that the government even embarked Islamification policies recently that drives even more smart and productive people out from the country. Their attempts on diversification has failed repeatedly.

They are in fact, worse than the UAE. At least Dubai is more modern than Brunei and embarked to a more successful diversification by attracting talent to go there until the big bust of 2008. Brunei, the opposite is happening.

Sure, Brunei looks very gooding now, Tell me. Would you stake your children's and their children's future on a country like Brunei?


SUStat3179
post May 5 2012, 09:21 PM

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QUOTE(WiLeKiyO @ May 5 2012, 09:19 PM)
What I care is the Sultan, he has too much "toys". His cars are uncountable.
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You want to see a potential failed state in the making, try counting the no. of cars and palaces their leaders have.
SUStat3179
post May 5 2012, 09:26 PM

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QUOTE(MR_alien @ May 5 2012, 09:20 PM)
ya..its smart they did that
but their things are kinda like..not cheap
their tourism is for ppl who are doing quite well only..not for airasia free ticket customers tongue.gif
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But even the UAE is not successful in transforming themselves and diversify completely from oil.

Why? When a country attracts more low skilled workers to be their maids, security guards, waiters, laborers..etc than high skilled workers you are going nowhere.

When your own people are too spoiled to learn, work and gain knowledge to compete with the East Asian economies, you're screwed.

When your people refuse to break through your sense of superiority and the comfort zone of your religion and culture and adapt to globalisation, you just can't compete.

One must see beyond the shiny towers and impressive infrastructure that your oil money could buy.
SUStat3179
post May 5 2012, 09:31 PM

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QUOTE(KVReninem @ May 5 2012, 09:27 PM)
Mevotex in Lowyat? LOLz..

eh soundsys...u copied from miricommunity.net
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But the article was very well written and the contents are very compelling.

It is for college thesis?
SUStat3179
post May 5 2012, 09:43 PM

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QUOTE(raul88 @ May 5 2012, 09:34 PM)
good read i would say

but one can sense by the way the article is written,
that sg will come out eventually as winner
against all odd.....a bit dramatic article
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My sentiments are not really being pro-Singapore, I for example don't like their kiasuness and sense of superiority to us, especially to the Malaysian Chinese.

But facts are facts.

This tiny island, so poor in resources that even water have to piped to it from a foreign country, surrounded by bigger rivals that are in fact hostile to it and would like no more to see crawling back to Malaysia, in 60 years transformed into the only 1st world country in South East Asia. This is a fact.

You can say that this article may be biased towards Singapore, but do you have any data or facts to refute what has been written?

The only country that could replicate what Singapore did was Israel, and the Israelis received far more military, economic and diplomatic aid from the US. Singapore has to do more by its own.

Fact is, no matter how you dislike Lee Kuan Yew, he is probably the best leader in his cohort in the entire South East Asia hands down.


SUStat3179
post May 5 2012, 09:48 PM

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QUOTE(BaboonZ @ May 5 2012, 09:37 PM)
What's the use if wealth is not distributed evenly?
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More like what's the use if you don't know how to expand and secure your nation's wealth properly and successfully.

You have to first catch the chicken before even discussing how to divide it evenly.
SUStat3179
post May 5 2012, 09:55 PM

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QUOTE(quintessential @ May 5 2012, 09:50 PM)
malaysians are too pampered with goodies and handouts from goverment. PR makes it worse by providing free tertiary education and more subsidies. instead of private charities, poor people depend on goverment.

we need to acknowledge that free market capitalism turned 4 asian tigers including singapore from 3rd world backwater to 1st world country and yet socialists blame it for widening gap between rich and poor. of course socialistic policies like public housing and free early education are important as a starting point for social mobility and that's all. the rest should be left to free market.
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I don't think the issue is about capitalist vs socialism or goodies and handouts by the government.

Remember, the PAP is socialist party. Though in reality they are pragmatists in administration. The HDB is an example of socialist policies. They know how to blend both capitalist and socialist policies properly.

The real issue here is meritocracy, governance, planning and foresight. And a sense of constantly being feeling an existential threat as a nation by the bigger nations around you thus removing complacency that afflict all other governments in SEA.


SUStat3179
post May 6 2012, 10:05 AM

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QUOTE(empyreal @ May 6 2012, 01:26 AM)
pap a socialist party? not really. their opponent, the workers' party, is socialist - which resulted in them getting pretty much gagged and oppressed.

and it's because of this lack of opponents that the government was free to enact non-populist measures. if they had, likeus now, both sides will outbid each other trying to push for which party can give more unsustainable subsidies to the people. if you're the only kid on the block, you dont need to do that.

and of course, having a natural port and infrastructure that was built up by the brits and an already present concentration of educated workforce prior to independence helps too.
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If you read LKY's memoirs, LKY always claimed that PAP is a socialist party and a member of Socialist International.

The Worker's Party on the other hand, is actually communist, not socialist.

In any event, PAP launched many socialist policies, like setting up co-op stores which is government run, and the HDB which is also govt run and many more. They know however, where to step back, and where to intervene effectively.
You could also argue that Temasek, one of the largest sovereign wealth fund is socialist because it is government run and not a private fund.



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