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Keyboards Possible to learn the classical Piano by myself?

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TSstanny
post Dec 24 2005, 09:44 PM, updated 20y ago

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As topic, is it possible to learn to play the classical piano by myself? Through books for example.

I have tried to learn to play the piano on and off for a couple of months but sometime later I will always get the urge to learn it again. However, instead of going somewhere every week to learn from a teacher I thought of this different approach. I thought of buying my own electronic / digital piano and get some books.

By the way, would it be advisable in this situation to get one of those keyboards as a substitute for the real classical piano? The keyboard doesn't have a pedal. Some do come with an entire set I guess with the chair and pedal. Any suggestions here?

I have intrest in works from Bach and mostly Chopin. To play like them has always been something I dream of. So anyone with recommendations please shoot them this way. Oh yeah, I have close to no music theory knowledge and I'm 20, if that helps.

Thanks!

This post has been edited by TheWhacker: Feb 22 2006, 11:27 AM
Geminist
post Dec 24 2005, 09:50 PM

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It's great seeing someone so dedicated to music (especially piano) ...

However, IMHO, piano is not really the same as guitar (not that easy to pick - up) ... My personal opinion is that, you should get a teacher <- if it's not a financial burden to you ... You can always tell the teacher that you're interested to pick this up as a hobby and not because you wanted to take an ABRSM exam or something .. I'm sure she/he will be able to work something out ...

The main thing about piano is, you require little talent but alot of practice (of course with talents, you'll learn in a much faster pace) ... You don't need to be maksim to play bumble bee if you practice hard enough ... There's no short cut to this, all you have to do is play and practice often ... smile.gif

My opinion is for your to get a teacher because, for piano, the important thing is your base/foundation ... Once your foundation is good, you can easily pick up tougher songs ... You can always self learn some basic theories like how to read the time signature, how to read some simple piano terms (pp, ff, staccato and etc) .... However, for the practical part, it is adviseable that you get a proper teacher to help you out ...

I would suggest if you're interested in classical, get an upright acoustic piano ... The feel of playing on acoustic piano and a keyboard is entirely different ... Try looking at some 2nd hand piano like Schwester which will cost you around RM3 - 5k depending on the model ... (if you can't afford Kawai/Yamaha/Steinway that is ....)

Lastly, age doesn't matter ... Seriously, if you truly enjoy music, I'm sure you'll feel passionate about it regardless of your age ... Hopefully my opinion helps and if you have further question, please post it here and I'll try my best to help smile.gif

This post has been edited by Geminist: Dec 24 2005, 09:51 PM
Criptonox89
post Dec 24 2005, 11:20 PM

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I'm not a pianist.....just give out some opinion....

In my opinion....most of musicians/people acknowledge that it's very very hard to learn to play a piano.....that's why most of the parents send their son/daughter to learn piano since they were still a kids....hopefully they can have a better learning way or to be a pianist in the future.....whatever....you've to put in much more effort in learning how to piano....it's easier to absorb the skill if u start to play when u were still a kid....

just to share out my experience......i got a friend..he's a pianist...he laern piano since he was 5 years old.....he told me that he always felt of wanna give up....but he still urge to force himself to learn piano....he's a Grade 7 piano player now....he'll sit for the Grade 8 next year....he's 16years old now....what he want to tell me is.....whatever problem i faced when learning my guitar...just take that as a lesson...dun give up easily....

Anyway...hopefully u can successfully overcome your problem and achieve your attainable dream......Good Luck.....
Geminist
post Dec 24 2005, 11:49 PM

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QUOTE(ANGELING @ Dec 24 2005, 11:20 PM)
I'm not a pianist.....just give out some opinion....

In my opinion....most of musicians/people acknowledge that it's very very hard to learn to play a piano.....that's why most of the parents send their son/daughter to learn piano since they were still a kids....hopefully they can have a better learning way or to be a pianist in the future.....whatever....you've to put in much more effort in learning how to piano....it's easier to absorb the skill if u start to play when u were still a kid....

just to share out my experience......i got a friend..he's a pianist...he laern piano since he was 5 years old.....he told me that he always felt of wanna give up....but he still urge to force himself to learn piano....he's a Grade 7 piano player now....he'll sit for the Grade 8 next year....he's 16years old now....what he want to tell me is.....whatever problem i faced when learning my guitar...just take that as a lesson...dun give up easily....

Anyway...hopefully u can successfully overcome your problem and achieve your attainable dream......Good Luck.....
*
This is one of the common problem people face ... When you're starting out on an instrument, most likely it'll be boring and you may need quite a period of time before you can play a song which you like ...

That is why I mentioned he should talk to the teacher about his preference in music and if he's not planning to go for examinations, the teacher can surely draft out another learning plans for him which will surely suits him more ...

Classical training method is really boring and yes, I did hv the thoughts of dropping this (not to forget I cursed my parents too ... which is something I regret in doing) ... You may feel kinda tough now, but in the future, you shall reap your rewards smile.gif
TSstanny
post Dec 25 2005, 06:23 AM

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From your opinion, I think it is best not to try and learn it by myself. I'm sure there are people that have manage to do it, but I think it is best to learn from someone experienced to build a more solid foundation. Besides, I don't think I have the dedication or motivation for that. Who am I going to turn to if I have a question? By the way, thanks for the great advice, Geminist.

I want to take this seriously, but I'm the kind of person who rarely finishes what I start (trying hard not to be). So for starters, I just want to take this as a light hobby. As a light hobby, I don't think I can take out that kind of money (3-5k) for a piano just yet. I know its probaly wise to invest in a better set in the beginning so that it can last for a long time. However on the other hand, I'm just afraid it will sit there and collect dust after a while. My budget would probaly be a cheap keyboard or something around a thousand ringgit.

Lastly, are there any places to learn piano in the Klang Valley that's more suited towards adults?

(P.S. Thanks for the kind words Angeling, I hope you archieve your dreams too. )
Geminist
post Dec 25 2005, 06:36 AM

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Welcome, glad I'm able to help smile.gif

I'm not able to tell you regarding which one offers such courses ... But I'm sure all you need to do is sit down and have a chat with your teacher before starting out ... This way, both of you can work out what you want smile.gif

Klang Valley ... It's somewhere near UM?

Actually, I'm not saying that piano can't be self learn ... It can as I have seen people who does so ... However the problem is, this requires alot of determination and abit of talent ... Or else you might take twice the time to progress as others who have a good teacher ... Another thing is, majority of the people I met who can master piano without having a teacher, they already have some basics in theory and music ...

Haha, I'm someone who's just like you ... I dropped things easily and I'm happy I didn't drop my piano lessons when I was young ...

For a keyboard, a decent one might cost you around 2k (like Casio WK series or Yamaha DGX series) ... You can consider asking your friends who have a piano at home ... Hopefully they'll let you play around with their piano ... smile.gif It's true that you should make sure you'll continue learning or else spending few thousands on these instrument will not be a good idea ...



Criptonox89
post Dec 25 2005, 12:39 PM

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The casio WK-1800 is around RM1700.....my mother jus bought one when i was buying my guitar.....i tried it once or twice every week in a couple months and felt that its function is quite wide and suitable for a beginner....easy to use......talking of function and quality......your budget seems to be can afford a KORG......you can try to pay a visit to Bentley Music oppisite is Lot 10 and KL Plaza....Good Luck
Geminist
post Dec 25 2005, 12:52 PM

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QUOTE(ANGELING @ Dec 25 2005, 12:39 PM)
The casio WK-1800 is around RM1700.....my mother jus bought one when i was buying my guitar.....i tried it once or twice every week in a couple months and felt that its function is quite wide and suitable for a beginner....easy to use......talking of function and quality......your budget seems to be can afford a KORG......you can try to pay a visit to Bentley Music oppisite is Lot 10 and KL Plaza....Good Luck
*
Korg huh ... ? The Triton and OASYS series is definitely a dream for most of the keyboard artists smile.gif

However, I'm not sure about the budget of stanny, but getting a Korg is not really adviseable at his current stage and besides, the price of a normal Korg would cost around the same or more acompared to a second hand piano IMHO ...

The basic of getting a keyboard is to first make sure it is touch sensitive (which in any case, it's quite a common features nowadays but it used to cost a bomb in the early days) and it's at least 76 keys or above (to ensure the versatility of the keyboard as reaching a higher state, you might find yourself short of keys if you're going for a 61 keys) ... Full size weighted keys are bonus if you manage to find such keyboards ... As for the sound engine, unless you're into composition, a decent keyboard like Yamaha DGX series or Casio WK series will produce roughly the same sound and only a higher end modal like the Yamaha Motif-8 or Triton will have a better and more "realistic" sound engine smile.gif
TSstanny
post Dec 25 2005, 09:02 PM

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Oh, Klang Valley I meant KL-Subang area mostly.
tytons
post Dec 25 2005, 11:01 PM

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i dun quite agree with the statement geminist made about guitar being easy to pick up....

sure alot ppl can play it...but can they play it right?talkin about techniques...any 1 can play the piano too...by self learing..or memorizing...but are they playin it rite?

u can self learn any instruments...excluding determination n other stuff..the question is..do u just wan to play a song...or u wan to play the song the right way.learning by books would not teach u much...compared to having a teacher ...and not to mention faster to learn if u can ask n get corrected at the same time.

but yea...it comes down to my point where do u wanna go with the piano...playing for fun n making it sound close to the composer or knowing how to play it well n making it sound really good.
Geminist
post Dec 26 2005, 12:42 AM

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QUOTE(tytons @ Dec 25 2005, 11:01 PM)
i dun quite agree with the statement geminist made about guitar being easy to pick up....

sure alot ppl can play it...but can they play it right?talkin about techniques...any 1 can play the piano too...by self learing..or memorizing...but are they playin it rite?

u can self learn any instruments...excluding determination n other stuff..the question is..do u just wan to play a song...or u wan to play the song the right way.learning by books would not teach u much...compared to having a teacher ...and not to mention faster to learn if u can ask n get corrected at the same time.

but yea...it comes down to my point where do u wanna go with the piano...playing for fun n making it sound close to the composer or knowing how to play it well n making it sound really good.
*
Sorry, what I meant easy to pick up was by, it's easier to self learn guitar then self learn piano ...

I'm not saying guitar is harder or vice versa ... All I'm trying to point here is, it's easier for someone with a musical background to pick up guitar then to pick up piano ...

*Above is just my opinion, I would like to hear more from you ... smile.gif


tytons
post Dec 26 2005, 02:00 AM

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QUOTE(Geminist @ Dec 26 2005, 12:42 AM)
All I'm trying to point here is, it's easier for someone with a musical background to pick up guitar then to pick up piano ...
*
hmm??some1 with a musical background?in that case...wat prob is there to pick up a new instrument..?besides the stiff fingers...or maybe more to the practical thingy...but theory wise ur already capable....confused.


n yea..the other thing..our fren stanny here has no basics in music..so assuming he doesnt know much about music.

i started with piano n shifted to guitar...wat i found out was i learn alot of new stuff...after classical guitar i tried self learning electric guitar...and found alot of stuff which are also different...like in styles of playing..fingering techniques and sound production...ive also heard alot of stuff like i didnt know like pentatonic, dorian,lydian, mixolydian...etc

also like harmonics...ive only learn natural n artificial harmonics...now i see pinch harmonics...

so yea..self learning is not impossible..but u learn slower...n u gotto learn to google well...but how to google for something u didnt know exist?

This post has been edited by tytons: Dec 26 2005, 02:08 AM
Pix
post Dec 26 2005, 03:20 AM

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tytons, but do you agree that piano is MUCH harder to self-learn ? of course it's possible, but many will just grow into despair at the beginning because it is so hard... look, on the guitar, you can learn to play a song (come as you are, let's say) in one hour, from scratch... i dunno... it's interesting because you learnt both of them.
tytons
post Dec 26 2005, 07:21 AM

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hmm actually Pix, im not too sure which is harder...

since i went thru both...i found guitar harder as my fingers were not tat flexible....assuming a song is just strumming of chords ofcourse...while for piano..."marry had a little lamb" can be played with just 1 finger? E D C D E E E

as for guitar is u were to play on the 1st and 2nd string..u would need 2 fingers.

but i think it really depends on the individual...

back to self learn on piano...yes i think its harder...as most piano books are not in numbers unlike guitar books
TSstanny
post Dec 26 2005, 08:22 AM

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I found something rather interesting. What do you guys think of http://www.playbyear.com.my

Came across this site while searching for piano courses.
Pix
post Dec 26 2005, 08:47 AM

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stanny, cool, i'll have a look smile.gif

tytons, i'm not talking about playing piano with one finger ^^ the synchrnosation between the left and right hands is something which is really unnatural to achieve, whereas guitar synchronisation is much easier... as far as i experienced it, anyway..
Geminist
post Dec 26 2005, 08:59 AM

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QUOTE(tytons @ Dec 26 2005, 07:21 AM)
hmm actually Pix, im not too sure which is harder...

since i went thru both...i found guitar harder as my fingers were not tat flexible....assuming a song is just strumming of chords ofcourse...while for piano..."marry had a little lamb" can be played with just 1 finger? E D C D E E E

as for guitar is u were to play on the 1st and 2nd string..u would need 2 fingers.

but i think it really depends on the individual...

back to self learn on piano...yes i think its harder...as most piano books are not in numbers unlike guitar books
*
IMHO, every song on piano could be play with one finger (provided that each tune needs only one key) ...

However, playing a song with all your fingers and one fingers, I'm sure you would know about the difference of the melody on one finger and using your hand ... The difference might not be obvious in the Marry Had a Little Lamb though ...

In addition to that, in my personal view, it is not to say guitar are not tough, they are both as tough, but the finger works required on advance level of piano are not easy either ... Besides, as pix have said, one of the tough things about piano is that, it's hard to match both hands at the same time ... This is more obvious on songs that utilizes both hands and not the conventional right hand melody left hand accompaniment songs ... smile.gif

Personally, I believe there's no end to the discussion of which is tougher to play, piano or guitar ... Both of these instruments are unique and they hv their own pros and cons ... And truly, anyone can pick up these instrument provided that they fork out enough effort, however, to master these instruments like the back of your hand, it's not easy ... smile.gif

---
Stanny, personally, I'm not really into playing note by note reading the manuscript ... When it comes to pop songs, I prefer to play it by ears as by doing so, you can color the song based on your own thoughts and feelings ... It's something fun to do (though sometimes it's not easy and I have given up halfway on alot of songs ... laugh.gif )

However, when it comes down to everything ... Practice makes perfect smile.gif
tytons
post Dec 26 2005, 10:28 AM

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QUOTE(Geminist @ Dec 26 2005, 08:59 AM)
In addition to that, in my personal view, it is not to say guitar are not tough, they are both as tough, but the finger works required on advance level of piano are not easy either ...

my point of how its hard to self learn an instrument...maybe i didnt know how to put it in words..but yea..was tryin to say tat...im not too familiar with electric guitar techniques...but for example...learning to play spanish pieces on classical guitar was hell thru reading...and even with an instructor..i still had alot of probs in fingering...sound projection, and gettin the notes to be cleanly played n strummed.
QUOTE
Personally, I believe there's no end to the discussion of which is tougher to play, piano or guitar ... Both of these instruments are unique and they hv their own pros and cons ... And truly, anyone can pick up these instrument provided that they fork out enough effort, however, to master these instruments like the back of your hand, it's not easy ... smile.gif
agree thumbup.gif

anyways...i hope no party is offended by my words...its good to share wat we all feel...sometimes typing can mislead to harshness...

Criptonox89
post Dec 26 2005, 01:45 PM

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QUOTE(Pix @ Dec 26 2005, 08:47 AM)
stanny, cool, i'll have a look smile.gif

tytons, i'm not talking about playing piano with one finger ^^ the synchrnosation between the left and right hands is something which is really unnatural to achieve, whereas guitar synchronisation is much easier... as far as i experienced it, anyway..
*
yeap...totally agreed!
the synchronisation between both hands is much harder than guitar......
Geminist
post Dec 26 2005, 10:21 PM

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QUOTE(tytons @ Dec 26 2005, 10:28 AM)
my point of how its hard to self learn an instrument...maybe i didnt know how to put it in words..but yea..was tryin to say tat...im not too familiar with electric guitar techniques...but for example...learning to play spanish pieces on classical guitar was hell thru reading...and even with an instructor..i still had alot of probs in fingering...sound projection, and gettin the notes to be cleanly played n strummed.

agree  thumbup.gif

anyways...i hope no party is offended by my words...its good to share wat we all feel...sometimes typing can mislead to harshness...
*
No problem, I'm just here to learn as I'm not that good in music sweat.gif and we're all here just to discuss and exchange what we have in mind smile.gif
Tachikoma
post Dec 26 2005, 10:24 PM

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Hmmm, I've been kinda interested in learning the piano too. I have some experience playing with the organ, but when I look at piano scores... whoah big difference in skill. >.>
Geminist
post Dec 26 2005, 10:30 PM

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Personally, I find organ to be more complicated with all the pedals down there laugh.gif


Tachikoma
post Dec 27 2005, 10:18 PM

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I think it'd be easier to go from piano to organ than vice-versa, hands wise you already have skillz far exceeding the average mid-grade organ player >_>
goliath
post Dec 29 2005, 01:09 PM

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gosh... after reading the comments posted on the 1st page, i'm having second thoughts of self-learning now..
ninelives1980
post Dec 30 2005, 05:52 PM

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hi stanny,

i haven't really read through the whole thread here.

Learning classical piano:

1. to get a teacher and learn under him/her covering both practical [literally piano playing] and theory studies [learning on the logics behind music construction on the overall].

To be able to play Chopin like you mentioned, you have to go to at least Grade 8 in ABRSM.

However, if you're good and intiative, you could attempt to play Chopin already even while you're in Grade 6.

That's what my teacher did, giving me piano pieces that are ahead of the grade that I'm in. Say like while I'm in grade 4, she's giving me grade 5 and 6 pieces to play and no more Grade 4 pieces.

It's never too late to learn classical piano. I started learning only when I'm 13. It really depends on how much you're interested cos' on my part I reached Grade 6 from Grade 1 in 3 years plus. Yea, it's practice crazy. Lol.

But if you were to learn contemporary piano styles playing like pop, and such, you could pick up on your own. But I wouldn't recommend it if you haven't got any foundation in classical. By the time you have, it would be a walk in the park to pick up contemporary piano playing. Trust me, cos' I've been thru that road. smile.gif

In saying that, picking up contemporary piano playing styles applies to contemproary music of course, except for jazz.
For jazz, there's a whole new studies on theory again, and practical playing. It's like a revolutionalized concept in practical and theory when it comes to jazz. You're sure to get your head fused up if you dont' have any foundation in classical when you attempt to understand jazz. It's possible though you might overstressed yourself.

Hope this helps.










ninelives1980
post Dec 30 2005, 06:04 PM

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piano's basically the basic of all instruments. Once you know how to play them, you could pick up other instruments just like that, if you so desires.

If you still want to branch out to other keyboard based instruments, from piano, you could go to keyboard/organ/synthesizers.

On piano, you could learn how to express emotions on the notes you play [degrees of volumes, legatos, and a whole bunch of stuffs]; things you can't really feel through your fingers on keyboards/organs/synthesizers.

I got to fiddle with an organ on my trip to an orphanage lately; never did touch an organ til' that time. Minutes sitting there, and it was quite fun having the bass pedals down there as well. Basically they're just chromatic notes as evident on piano's keyboard.

Classical piano's got a good future, even right here in Malaysia; but one thing is that you must be darn good. I mean as in, if you can play Chopin like nobody's business,take for example, his etude 'Revolutionary', or pieces like 'fantasy impromptu' in actual timing and just like the way it's meant to be played according to the original song sheets; then you're on top of your game.


hoongern
post Dec 31 2005, 12:12 AM

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Heya all you guys.. I just stumbled across this thread and thought I'd give a little input...

Personally I've been playing since I was 3 yrs old (Been playing for 14yrs now).

I tell you what - I started out without any lessons or books. Just by ear... by hearing what other people played and playing it back.

So to a certain extent it is possible to develop some skills from being self-taught... however, in my case, and I would probably say other cases, it's VERY VERY EASY to develop bad habits by teaching yourself. Stuff like posture, fingering, tone production and so on. Most people don't realise that music is A LOT more than just pressing the notes correct and in time. Even a computer can do that! It's about shaping the music, your input into it, tone, how you contrast the sections of the piece, and a lot more.

I think that past a certain level, you definitely need a teacher... If you want to progress further, that is. It's not impossible to do it by yourself, but you can learn so much more with a teacher.

Learning also doesn't have to be boring... Whatever people say about classical music teaching/learning or the music itself being boring... Part of it may also be due to having a boring teacher (heh, hope I'm not saying too much). But having a GOOD teacher can make ALL the difference. A teacher who cares, who understands you and can guide you through. Music can become quite a complex and personal thing, and you need a teacher who understands how you relate to music and so on..

I strongly disagree with electronic pianos/keyboards - their touch is normally horrible, they just don't have the feeling of a hammer moving forwards to hit strings, the pedals (if they have any) are terrible (discreet levels of pedalling and sudden changes), and the worst thing - There is NO character in the piano at all. All the notes sound the same! Get an upright (unless you can afford better), doesn't have to be new (my first piano had 6 strings broken and was out of tune).

About people comparing how easy it is to learn/master instruments or how basic they are, I have a different view... Having played in some orchestras & chamber groups, and seeing the styles in which the composers compose their music - All instruments are different, their method of playing, so on. For example, no other instrument can match the piano in its ability to produce colours with chords or its versatility in playing more than one note, or all those fast passages. On the other hand, what can produce that clear tone of the violin, which sings at the top? Or the power and rich tone of the trombone? Perhaps one might be technically easier to master than the other, but musically it might be even harder. Sometimes the simplest of things can be the hardest to master. You can even study recorder as your first instrument in the Royal Academy of Music (or is it the Royal College?) in London.

Don't let anything stop you from wanting to learn music - even my comments. Music is a language - there will be many opinions on it. But for the love of music... don't be discouraged.

EDIT: Just some other things I'd like to add - To me, music is not about exams. It doesn't matter what grades you have, that doesn't tell you much about you as a musician. Your musicianship is just as important. Notice I said "Just as". I'm not saying exams are less important than anything, but that there are also other important things which go along with the exams. Exams are useful in setting a goal and benchmarking yourself - but remember, it's not the thing which decides how good you are.

Oh, and about the organ. Have you heard the pipe organ in KLCC? It's not bad... hear all those powerful notes.. Or even better, try going to a cathedral... There's nothing more glorious than hearing a choir sing their hearts out with the deep sounds of the organ along with the grand pipes hitting you, and then suddenly, a drop in volume with the reverb of the voices echoing away into the corners of the cathedral. Whoops, getting a bit carried away.. hehe

This post has been edited by hoongern: Dec 31 2005, 12:16 AM
Geminist
post Jan 1 2006, 07:28 AM

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QUOTE(hoongern @ Dec 31 2005, 12:12 AM)
Heya all you guys.. I just stumbled across this thread and thought I'd give a little input...

Personally I've been playing since I was 3 yrs old (Been playing for 14yrs now).

I tell you what - I started out without any lessons or books. Just by ear... by hearing what other people played and playing it back.

So to a certain extent it is possible to develop some skills from being self-taught... however, in my case, and I would probably say other cases, it's VERY VERY EASY to develop bad habits by teaching yourself. Stuff like posture, fingering, tone production and so on. Most people don't realise that music is A LOT more than just pressing the notes correct and in time. Even a computer can do that! It's about shaping the music, your input into it, tone, how you contrast the sections of the piece, and a lot more.

I think that past a certain level, you definitely need a teacher... If you want to progress further, that is. It's not impossible to do it by yourself, but you can learn so much more with a teacher.

Learning also doesn't have to be boring... Whatever people say about classical music teaching/learning or the music itself being boring... Part of it may also be due to having a boring teacher (heh, hope I'm not saying too much). But having a GOOD teacher can make ALL the difference. A teacher who cares, who understands you and can guide you through. Music can become quite a complex and personal thing, and you need a teacher who understands how you relate to music and so on..

I strongly disagree with electronic pianos/keyboards - their touch is normally horrible, they just don't have the feeling of a hammer moving forwards to hit strings, the pedals (if they have any) are terrible (discreet levels of pedalling and sudden changes), and the worst thing - There is NO character in the piano at all. All the notes sound the same! Get an upright (unless you can afford better), doesn't have to be new (my first piano had 6 strings broken and was out of tune).

About people comparing how easy it is to learn/master instruments or how basic they are, I have a different view... Having played in some orchestras & chamber groups, and seeing the styles in which the composers compose their music - All instruments are different, their method of playing, so on. For example, no other instrument can match the piano in its ability to produce colours with chords or its versatility in playing more than one note, or all those fast passages. On the other hand, what can produce that clear tone of the violin, which sings at the top? Or the power and rich tone of the trombone? Perhaps one might be technically easier to master than the other, but musically it might be even harder. Sometimes the simplest of things can be the hardest to master. You can even study recorder as your first instrument in the Royal Academy of Music (or is it the Royal College?) in London.

Don't let anything stop you from wanting to learn music - even my comments. Music is a language - there will be many opinions on it. But for the love of music... don't be discouraged.

EDIT: Just some other things I'd like to add - To me, music is not about exams. It doesn't matter what grades you have, that doesn't tell you much about you as a musician. Your musicianship is just as important. Notice I said "Just as". I'm not saying exams are less important than anything, but that there are also other important things which go along with the exams. Exams are useful in setting a goal and benchmarking yourself - but remember, it's not the thing which decides how good you are.

Oh, and about the organ. Have you heard the pipe organ in KLCC? It's not bad... hear all those powerful notes.. Or even better, try going to a cathedral... There's nothing more glorious than hearing a choir sing their hearts out with the deep sounds of the organ along with the grand pipes hitting you, and then suddenly, a drop in volume with the reverb of the voices echoing away into the corners of the cathedral. Whoops, getting a bit carried away.. hehe
*
So there's someone hiding under water .. ? laugh.gif

Anyways, until now, I still believe it's not hard to pick up an instrument if you have a decent background in music .. It's not hard to pick up, but it's hard to master it like the back of your hand as I suggested earlier ... The thing is, for example, everyone can play guitar, but how many of them can play like Mike Oldfield?

About the exam, it's just the same as all the exams (SPM and et cetera) we see everyday ... They merely act as a medium for you to venture into further places within the music field as you'll need to have a certain qualification before being eligible to be enrolled into music colleges ...

I haven't heard about the pipe organ in KLCC, but I did visit a cathedral here and I must agree ... The impact of such combination is truly impressive (though I couldn't understand what they were singing in the first place) ...

About the keyboard, there are better ones (but usually they will cost ALOT more than an upright piano) ... Those piano that are used such as stage performance piano (like Kurzweil or Nord), they do have a much proper piano styled pedals and weighted hammer action keys ... As you have been involved in so many events, you surely understand that sometimes, portablitiy comes before quality ... smile.gif

This post has been edited by Geminist: Jan 1 2006, 07:29 AM
TSstanny
post Jan 1 2006, 08:19 AM

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Wow, Grade 8 to play Chopin! I better start soon then if I am going to reach there anytime soon. Chopin is so much as an inspiration to me and its the reason I want to play the piano.

From reading all the comments I am certain that I need a teacher so that I develop correctly instead of picking up bad habits. I also don't want to get something digital anymore. As hongern mentioned, I think the normal piano has so much more to give and the expression it can give just don't compare (I have tried messing with digital keyboards and an acoustic piano before).

One thing though, what do you think about sweaty palms when it comes to playing the piano? When I do anything that requires the use of my hands, like foosball or playing the guitar, my palms start to sweat and its just not a minorly. On some rare occasion though, I keep my cool and it doesn't. Maybe I could wear gloves while attending class but I think thats just akward.
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post Jan 1 2006, 09:01 AM

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QUOTE(stanny @ Jan 1 2006, 08:19 AM)
Wow, Grade 8 to play Chopin! I better start soon then if I am going to reach there anytime soon. Chopin is so much as an inspiration to me and its the reason I want to play the piano.

From reading all the comments I am certain that I need a teacher so that I develop correctly instead of picking up bad habits. I also don't want to get something digital anymore. As hongern mentioned, I think the normal piano has so much more to give and the expression it can give just don't compare (I have tried messing with digital keyboards and an acoustic piano before).

One thing though, what do you think about sweaty palms when it comes to playing the piano? When I do anything that requires the use of my hands, like foosball or playing the guitar, my palms start to sweat and its just not a minorly. On some rare occasion though, I keep my cool and it doesn't. Maybe I could wear gloves while attending class but I think thats just akward.
*
It's true that you're better off with an acoustic piano because as suggested earlier, there are better ones out there just that, the price tag are much higher too ... Well, I'm not really a fan of digital keyboards but I must clarify that instruments like Korg/Roland/Nord give very good expressions and mood (I once downloaded some demo of Korg Triton some time ago) ... Just that, the price is just not worthwhile for everyone ...

I don't think there's any problem with sweaty palms unless if it's very serious to an extend you might wet the keys ... The reason is because you're only playing with the tip of your finger ... You should pay more attention to your finger nails as finger nails sometime make you slip and the "tik tik" sound from the finger nails are rather annoying at times ...

Posture huh ... For first timmers in violin, the first few lessons of the violin class it to learn how to hold/stand with the violin in the correct way ... laugh.gif
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post Jan 1 2006, 02:38 PM

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QUOTE
So there's someone hiding under water .. ?


More like hiding under a piano laugh.gif . I'd drown if I hid underwater...

To be fair, yes, I agree that digital pianos can be very versatile - and I've come across many HORRIBLE acoustic pianos too (some with broken keys, dead sound, hammers which hit the strings NEXT to the one they're supposed to hit, broken music stands, etc). They will never replace a proper concert grand piano, but they do have their place in music. (At least they don't go out of tune tongue.gif , and need less mantainance). But even when I compare two grand pianos (For example my school's 7ft Yamaha Grand and 7ft Steinway Grand, both aren't that great, but you can hear the character in the steinway - it has a voice, so to speak).

Also I've heard some synthesized piano (using Synthogy Ivory, about 40GB of samples?). It sounds nice, nicer than my piano, but yet, something is missing.. It just sounds too boring, even if it sounds nice. I can't yet find out what it is, but it just doesn't have the touch and sound of a real piano... perhaps it's the way that the keys interact with each other when the frequencies interfere on the sound board of a piano if it's real - the synthesized doesn't have it.

I guess the argument of portability/quality all depends on the concert.. If it's a big concert, I won't want a digital... But yes, the digital piano is useful.. (assuming you find a plug point heh)

QUOTE
Wow, Grade 8 to play Chopin!


Hehe, depends which Chopin. "assuming" a level of grade 8 (Who decides what's gr.8 standard anyway?), he has pieces less challenging / more challenging than that.

About sweaty hands, does that happen because of nervousness, or does it just happen? I know it can be quite an issue especially in cold countries - when a concert comes up your hands all become cold and sweaty.. that's when one starts looking for a hand drier. Too bad pianos aren't designed with warm air vents to blow across the keys drool.gif That would be useful for me...

I hope you don't mean wearing gloves when playing? (Well, my teacher wears some wrist protectors or something). It would be quite hard to play with them on...

tak tak sound of fingernails can be irritating, yes. Tak NAK that sound! Keep them trimmed =) . Pity for those who like keeping long fingernails. (Although it isn't impossible to play with long ones)
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post Jan 1 2006, 08:18 PM

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QUOTE(hoongern @ Jan 1 2006, 02:38 PM)
More like hiding under a piano  laugh.gif . I'd drown if I hid underwater...

To be fair, yes, I agree that digital pianos can be very versatile - and I've come across many HORRIBLE acoustic pianos too (some with broken keys, dead sound, hammers which hit the strings NEXT to the one they're supposed to hit, broken music stands, etc). They will never replace a proper concert grand piano, but they do have their place in music. (At least they don't go out of tune  tongue.gif , and need less mantainance). But even when I compare two grand pianos (For example my school's 7ft Yamaha Grand and 7ft Steinway Grand, both aren't that great, but you can hear the character in the steinway - it has a voice, so to speak).

Also I've heard some synthesized piano (using Synthogy Ivory, about 40GB of samples?). It sounds nice, nicer than my piano, but yet, something is missing.. It just sounds too boring, even if it sounds nice. I can't yet find out what it is, but it just doesn't have the touch and sound of a real piano... perhaps it's the way that the keys interact with each other when the frequencies interfere on the sound board of a piano if it's real - the synthesized doesn't have it.

I guess the argument of portability/quality all depends on the concert.. If it's a big concert, I won't want a digital... But yes, the digital piano is useful.. (assuming you find a plug point heh)

*
I must say there is no end in the discussion of keyboard versus acoustic piano (it's just like saying the egg or chicken comes first) ... As you said, it depends on the concert ... To be more precise, I believe what you mentioned is the genre of the concert itself ...

Oh and by the way, you're one lucky person in this world to be able to play on a Steinway grand ... The best I came across was Kawai smile.gif

But seriously speaking, I'm not that into Yamaha's piano as I find their sound to be muffled or blurry ... I prefer something which is clearer ... smile.gif (<- guess it's just me) ...

hoongern
post Jan 2 2006, 12:30 AM

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QUOTE(Geminist @ Jan 1 2006, 08:18 PM)
I must say there is no end in the discussion of keyboard versus acoustic piano (it's just like saying the egg or chicken comes first) ... As you said, it depends on the concert ... To be more precise, I believe what you mentioned is the genre of the concert itself ...

Oh and by the way, you're one lucky person in this world to be able to play on a Steinway grand ... The best I came across was Kawai smile.gif

But seriously speaking, I'm not that into Yamaha's piano as I find their sound to be muffled or blurry ... I prefer something which is clearer ... smile.gif (<- guess it's just me) ...
*
I guess so. You could almost consider them (ALMOST, not exactly) different instruments...

A steinway is just a steinway.. And anyway it's not mine (wish wish).. In fact, the steinway I normally use is not that great... Its top range has become a little harsh.. Although, yes, it's still a steinway. And at home all I have is a aging Kawai..

Actually, over the years I notice that Yamahas actually tend to be brighter (at least on the bottom end).. or maybe it's just because i've just played on very-well-seasoned pianos (hammers harden up - thus the brighter sound). But again, every piano has a different character, so it's hard to say.


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post Jan 2 2006, 12:38 AM

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QUOTE(hoongern @ Jan 2 2006, 12:30 AM)
I guess so. You could almost consider them (ALMOST, not exactly) different instruments...

A steinway is just a steinway.. And anyway it's not mine (wish wish).. In fact, the steinway I normally use is not that great... Its top range has become a little harsh.. Although, yes, it's still a steinway. And at home all I have is a aging Kawai..

Actually, over the years I notice that Yamahas actually tend to be brighter (at least on the bottom end).. or maybe it's just because i've just played on very-well-seasoned pianos (hammers harden up - thus the brighter sound). But again, every piano has a different character, so it's hard to say.
*
Music is just a hobby to me and I don't really have that much exposure ...

Thus, someday, I really need to try out a Steinway grand ... laugh.gif

On a serious note though, I have played on an upright Yamaha, Kawai, Schewester and Samick grand ... I still find that Yamaha's sound are muffled ... Perhaps I ought to give Yamaha more tries when I get back ...
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post Jan 2 2006, 09:02 PM

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QUOTE(Geminist @ Jan 2 2006, 12:38 AM)
Music is just a hobby to me and I don't really have that much exposure ...

Thus, someday, I really need to try out a Steinway grand ... laugh.gif

On a serious note though, I have played on an upright Yamaha, Kawai, Schewester and Samick grand ... I still find that Yamaha's sound are muffled ... Perhaps I ought to give Yamaha more tries when I get back ...
*
You wouldn't remember which yamaha models you've played on?

I've played on three Yamaha baby grands (model GC1 i think), 2 were bright, 1 was slightly mellow.. one Kawai baby grand which was really old and clangy, 4 Yamaha Grands (model C5), two are bright, one was really new, a bit mellow, but not fuzzy, and the other - bass range was mellow, top range was harsh.. that was a terrible piano (and I had to play it in the MidSomerset Festival competition! Luckily everyone else also had to play it)... One Yamaha C7 grand... which is moderately bright... As for steinway I've played a Medium Grand - Model M 5' 7" which sounded really underplayed (a bit muffled) and could not take much dynamic changes... An older one (7ft+) which sounded really rich&clear.. but perhaps aging a bit. and the one I'm currently using in my school is a Music Room Grand - Model B (i think, but might be parlour model A) which is quite rich, but a bit too mellow on the midrange and a bit clangy on the top.. And whoops, I broke on the of the piano strings on it, while recording!

I have a Kawai US-50 upright grand which is HARSH and no volume on the bottom range (all the hammers have hardened up)...

And my school's practice pianos are mostly Yamaha (either PX124 N-T or SU7, I can't remember) which are bright....

hope you manage to try out a steinway soon.. meanwhile you can load some samples into your computer heh, it's not the same though.
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post Jan 2 2006, 09:14 PM

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Erm ... No ... I seldom pay attention to too much models of acoustic piano because it's not easy remembering them (for me...) ...

After reading your impression on Steinway, I really really really ought to give it a try if I can find one ...

Hmm, yea .. It's not the same by loading it onto my computer ... The feeling of listening to a piano live and from a computer, it's totally different ... Somehow, I feel more impressed and touched by listening to a piano live instead of listening through computer ...
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post Jan 2 2006, 09:33 PM

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Thats why the audiophiles say the piano is by far the most difficult instrument to reproduce on hi-fi >_>
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post Jan 2 2006, 09:49 PM

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Yes.. live performances are so much better... You're in London? I'm not sure whether they allow you (so if you decide to go and turns out to be a failure, you can't blame me for wasting your money! tongue.gif), but you could try going to the Royal Academy/College of music and see whether there are any there to try.. Probably not actually.. I think you have to book practice rooms and that kind of stuff.....

The piano can be hard to capture... but I don't think it's the hardest. I haven't tried miking a pipe organ *yet*

Hehe... we seem to be diverging off the topic...

Anyway if anyone wants to do Chopin which is not that hard... I did Deus Nocturnes, Op. 55 Nr.1 in F minor 5 years back I think... or you could try perhaps the B flat minor nocturne... or the E flat major waltz.. Although if you've just started I don't suggest you try those... Start with something simpler first..

This post has been edited by hoongern: Jan 2 2006, 09:49 PM
Geminist
post Jan 3 2006, 11:35 PM

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QUOTE(hoongern @ Jan 2 2006, 09:49 PM)
Yes.. live performances are so much better... You're in London? I'm not sure whether they allow you (so if you decide to go and turns out to be a failure, you can't blame me for wasting your money! tongue.gif), but you could try going to the Royal Academy/College of music and see whether there are any there to try.. Probably not actually.. I think you have to book practice rooms and that kind of stuff.....

The piano can be hard to capture... but I don't think it's the hardest. I haven't tried miking a pipe organ *yet*

Hehe... we seem to be diverging off the topic...

Anyway if anyone wants to do Chopin which is not that hard... I did Deus Nocturnes, Op. 55 Nr.1 in F minor 5 years back I think... or you could try perhaps the B flat minor nocturne... or the E flat major waltz.. Although if you've just started I don't suggest you try those... Start with something simpler first..
*
I'm in UK, but not London ... The address I put up here is the address of Sherlock Holmes at Baker Street ... Didn't have time to visit that place ... XD

I'm in a remote town called Bradford ... How about you? Are you doing music in England now?

*Yea, we seems to be diverting our conversation alittle here ... laugh.gif

Hmm, isn't piece like The Flight of the Bumble Bee composed by Rimskij Korsakov much tougher? By the way, you came across any piece you like by Franz Schubert?
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post Jan 4 2006, 07:00 AM

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geminist...does ur uni hav music courses?mine has..n they got some orchestra thingy...some ppl are not bad...theres alot a place in newcastle called sage or someting i was told they got orchestra n gig goin on there..i miss the tommy emanuel 1 not too long ago...im sure london got alot of events as well rite?

i checked the schedule..hillary duff will be here this year..haha.. tongue.gif but it doesnt hav anything to do with the topic hhaa.. wub.gif

This post has been edited by tytons: Jan 4 2006, 07:00 AM
hoongern
post Jan 5 2006, 04:31 PM

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QUOTE(Geminist @ Jan 3 2006, 11:35 PM)
I'm in UK, but not London ... The address I put up here is the address of Sherlock Holmes at Baker Street ... Didn't have time to visit that place ... XD

I'm in a remote town called Bradford ... How about you? Are you doing music in England now?

*Yea, we seems to be diverting our conversation alittle here ...  laugh.gif

Hmm, isn't piece like  The Flight of the Bumble Bee composed by Rimskij Korsakov much tougher? By the way, you came across any piece you like by Franz Schubert?
*
PM'ed you which hopefully got through... hehe.. Too off topic..
X-LaW
post Jan 19 2006, 12:31 AM

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i am on the move of buying a DIGITAL piano or a keyboard... budject is around 3k.. i nd to carry aroud place so i cant consider a piano..

i am jz a beginner..

any model recomemdation from u guy??

is digital piano beter then keyboard..? weighted key??
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post Jan 19 2006, 12:54 AM

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QUOTE(tytons @ Jan 4 2006, 07:00 AM)
geminist...does ur uni hav music courses?mine has..n they got some orchestra thingy...some ppl are not bad...theres alot a place in newcastle called sage or someting i was told they got orchestra n gig goin on there..i miss the tommy emanuel 1 not too long ago...im sure london got alot of events as well rite?

i checked the schedule..hillary duff will be here this year..haha.. tongue.gif but it doesnt hav anything to do with the topic hhaa.. wub.gif
*
Really sorry, didn't check back this thread until I saw the latest thread ...

Erm, no ... IIRC, the university don't really offer any music course ...

*Yea, there's quite a lot of events going on around London too (though I'm not staying in London) ... I missed the Stomp performance some time ago but I don't think I need to worry much as they perform frequently ...

QUOTE(hoongern @ Jan 5 2006, 04:31 PM)
PM'ed you which hopefully got through... hehe.. Too off topic..
*
Erm, been wanting to ask you, I think I have replied to you ... Or haven't I huh.gif ?

QUOTE(X-LaW @ Jan 19 2006, 12:31 AM)
i am on the move of buying a DIGITAL piano or a keyboard... budject is around 3k.. i nd to carry aroud place so i cant consider a piano..

i am jz a beginner..

any model recomemdation from u guy??

is digital piano beter then keyboard..? weighted key??
*

:

Some digital piano are portable whereas some are not, so the choices I'm listing below are all portable ... (About the price, it's something around 3k I guess .. I'm not in Malaysia so I can't really tell) ...

For 3k, you can consider:

Digital Piano

Yamaha P60 Digital Piano (Discontinued, but hopefully they still have some in stock)

Yamaha P70 portable Piano (Successor to P60 and cheaper too)

Korg SP200 Digital Piano (Not sure about the price, but it's around 4k if you convert it to RM)

*All three of the digital piano's key have hammer action which means, they are closer to a real acoustic piano ... But of course, the price for all three digital piano exceeds the keyboards ...

Keyboards

Yamaha DGX 205

Yamaha DGX 505

Casio WK3200

Casio Wk3500

Personally, I would suggest the Casio WK3000 (Discontinued model, so try and hunt for a price reduction) ...

Or else, Yamaha DGX205 might be a good choice for budget users too ...

Well, after having said that, what is the main purpose for you to buy a piano?

You wanted to self learn or?

Your choices of instruments might vary depending on your choices of use ...

This post has been edited by Geminist: Jan 19 2006, 12:57 AM
goldfries
post Jan 19 2006, 01:00 AM

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what about Roland keyboards nowadays? i still have one, hardly use cos most time play guitar.

oh and about piano, you don't have to play it complicated to make it nice. smile.gif for me, i just play keyboard without notes, just generate a tune as i play.

heck even once my mother thought it was some CD or some music on TV. wink.gif

i have no piano class, but i do have Yahama JEC certification (can't remember what level la)........ but that was like 15 years+++ ago.

This post has been edited by goldfries: Jan 19 2006, 01:03 AM
X-LaW
post Jan 19 2006, 01:04 AM

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i have learn piano for a a while.. bt nd to go melaka to study.. so plan to buy one can portable one ma... can bring there n bring back when holiaday...
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post Jan 19 2006, 01:16 AM

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QUOTE(goldfries @ Jan 19 2006, 01:00 AM)
what about Roland keyboards nowadays? i still have one, hardly use cos most time play guitar.

oh and about piano, you don't have to play it complicated to make it nice. smile.gif for me, i just play keyboard without notes, just generate a tune as i play.

heck even once my mother thought it was some CD or some music on TV. wink.gif

i have no piano class, but i do have Yahama JEC certification (can't remember what level la)........ but that was like 15 years+++ ago.
*
Oh Roland ... !!

I didn't really do much research on Roland last time ... Therefore, I'm not really familar with their products ...

But as far as I know, just like Nord, Roland's product don't come really cheap nowadays ...

It's fun to play by your feeling (though it may turn out crappy sometimes) or play by your ear ... As long as you enjoy it, it's good enough smile.gif

QUOTE(X-LaW @ Jan 19 2006, 01:04 AM)
i have learn piano for a a while.. bt nd to go melaka to study.. so plan to buy one can portable one ma... can bring there n bring back when holiaday...
*
Well, if you're just going to play it casually, I would suggest a keyboard like DGX205 as it's really quite cheap and decent ...

However, if you're looking for something which will last you for a longer period of time, try to look for DGX505 or digital piano ... However, they might be more pricey ... There's some change in the models of the keyboards/digital piano lately, so try and hunt for a bargain smile.gif

*For the keyboards above, the Casio and the Yamaha doesn't vary much, it's just your personal preferences to decide which brand you would like to get ...

hoongern
post Jan 19 2006, 01:48 AM

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QUOTE
Erm, been wanting to ask you, I think I have replied to you ... Or haven't I huh.gif ?


Hmm. nothing yet..

QUOTE
oh and about piano, you don't have to play it complicated to make it nice. smile.gif for me, i just play keyboard without notes, just generate a tune as i play.


Yes.. Improvisation - a total skill by itself.. one weird thing I've come to realise too is that in many cases, the simpler stuff is harder to play than complicated stuff... because you can easily cover up if playing all those thousands of notes.. but to play a few notes perfectly can be a huge challenge...
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i caught stomp here in newcastle...was not too bad..enjoyed it...i had the vcd at home long time ago..n suprisingly its pretty much the same routine...so i guess 1 time is enuff...unless they have a new routine...but they do improvise a lil during each performance..so its not 100% identical.

hoongern
post Jan 22 2006, 09:34 PM

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Actually, seems to me that the term 'improvisation' (in classical context) hasn't been heard much...

When you hear that term most people think of jazz improv or something (i think)... and actually, although now most classical scores are notated, if you've listened to any Mozart Piano Concertos, the cadenza (Basically the part where the pianists gets to show off all his skills) used to be improvised... as well as during the baroque era, the person having the basso continuo would be given figured bass and would improvise on top of the bass line... Just something I thought interesting.
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post Jan 25 2006, 07:15 PM

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Yamaha DGX 305.. jz bought...1765

playing wit it nw...

thx for advise...
Suzaku Sougekiha
post Feb 21 2006, 08:10 PM

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Hello, I'm new here, I'm Indonesian, I'm currently studying at KL, but I can't practice piano because I don't know where to rent piano at KL, does someone know where to rent a cheap piano? any help will be appreciate.
hoongji
post Feb 28 2006, 12:42 PM

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it's expensive to rent a piano. not to mention the trouble of moving it if you are moving. you can try to find some music schools near your area and rent on hourly basis. you'll just need to go there to practice.
Suzaku Sougekiha
post Feb 28 2006, 10:01 PM

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But I'm Living at cyberjaya, and there is no music school nearby, therefore no piano rental. Is there any piano rental/school u know near cyberjaya or KL? thx for the help
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post Mar 1 2006, 04:32 PM

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you can try out in Serdang, South City Plaza or Mines. i see a couple of music schools there
Sky.Live
post Mar 9 2006, 08:58 PM

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hi, i am very interested to play piano.. wanted to learn them but i couldn't afford a piano, neither would my parents allow i guess.. but is there anyway which i can learn piano actually without owning a piano? and what is the cheapest alternative...
hoongji
post Mar 10 2006, 01:29 PM

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if you're not into exams but just for leisure, there's always a way to learn without having to own a piano. do you have friends owning a piano? head over there once in a while. you can also join some music clubs in school or college. i'm pretty sure most of the schools do own one. you don't have to pay a single cent. just need to treat your friends

learning piano by ear is very good for late starters. you don't have to focus on the exams. with minor guidance from an expert, you can play much more better (pop songs, not classicals) than those who have taken many exams, provided you can master the basics.

Sky.Live
post Mar 10 2006, 05:27 PM

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QUOTE(hoongji @ Mar 10 2006, 02:29 PM)
if you're not into exams but just for leisure, there's always a way to learn without having to own a piano. do you have friends owning a piano? head over there once in a while. you can also join some music clubs in school or college. i'm pretty sure most of the schools do own one. you don't have to pay a single cent. just need to treat your friends

learning piano by ear is very good for late starters. you don't have to focus on the exams. with minor guidance from an expert, you can play much more better (pop songs, not classicals) than those who have taken many exams, provided you can master the basics.
*
i wish to play classical more then pop songs.. and most of my friend has a piano i guess.. just that.. even those with piano also dun want 2 play edi.. guess their piano edi left for years..
hoongji
post Mar 10 2006, 06:00 PM

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QUOTE(Sky.Live @ Mar 10 2006, 05:27 PM)
i wish to play classical more then pop songs.. and most of my friend has a piano i guess.. just that.. even those with piano also dun want 2 play edi.. guess their piano edi left for years..
*
you need professional training to play classical because there are many techniques you need to learn. pop is easier and can be learned on your own.

i'm just like your friends. i left my keyboard in the dust. now working already and don't really have the time to play.
Sky.Live
post Mar 10 2006, 08:57 PM

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QUOTE(hoongji @ Mar 10 2006, 07:00 PM)
you need professional training to play classical because there are many techniques you need to learn. pop is easier and can be learned on your own.

i'm just like your friends. i left my keyboard in the dust. now working already and don't really have the time to play.
*
lol, my fried dun want to play coz he said his teacher very fierce biggrin.gif

seems that it's impossible to play classical without enrolling to proper classes cry.gif
aiks.. seems that i can only listen oni..

my uni(UTAR) seems stupid after all, they dont have any proper instrumental club cry.gif maybe yes to guitar or violin or instrumental which have mobility.. but not to bulky instrumental like piano or organs etc...
hoongern
post Mar 11 2006, 03:32 AM

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Well, I guess it's true that you will need a teacher at a certain point.. but I don't know. I myself started out learning classical piano by ear when I was three yrs old... and I can say that that has trained my ear A LOT, although yes, it can be a problem as well... You can pick up many 'bad habits' without a teacher... I think these habits come whether it's pop/classical/anything...and if I may to voice my opinion, the technical side of classical playing is much harder than pop music, which is why the problems seem more apparent in classical.

Yes, there are some ganas teachers around.. which, depending on the student can be good or bad. Personally I don't go well with ganas teachers hehe... But I will say - I would always want a teacher... and I have very very very nice teachers...

As for a piano... I guess you'll just have to go to one of your friend's houses to use a piano... Or *if* you enroll in a music school, depending, you should be able to practice there.

Bulky instruments? Care to try talking about the pipe organ??? Hehe.. I only know one in the whole of malaysia - at MPO.. (I'm sure there're a few more here and there).
Sky.Live
post Mar 11 2006, 09:16 AM

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QUOTE(hoongern @ Mar 11 2006, 04:32 AM)
Well, I guess it's true that you will need a teacher at a certain point.. but I don't know. I myself started out learning classical piano by ear when I was three yrs old... and I can say that that has trained my ear A LOT, although yes, it can be a problem as well... You can pick up many 'bad habits' without a teacher... I think these habits come whether it's pop/classical/anything...and if I may to voice my opinion, the technical side of classical playing is much harder than pop music, which is why the problems seem more apparent in classical.

Yes, there are some ganas teachers around.. which, depending on the student can be good or bad. Personally I don't go well with ganas teachers hehe... But I will say - I would always want a teacher... and I have very very very nice teachers...

As for a piano... I guess you'll just have to go to one of your friend's houses to use a piano... Or *if* you enroll in a music school, depending, you should be able to practice there.

Bulky instruments? Care to try talking about the pipe organ??? Hehe.. I only know one in the whole of malaysia - at MPO.. (I'm sure there're a few more here and there).
*
lol, try carry and broke a few back bones?

can you clarified by what is by ears? listen and find out the chords?

my friend's teacher is not that "ganas" gua, just want take ruler and knock his finger when he played something wrongly LOL~~
hoongern
post Mar 11 2006, 03:04 PM

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QUOTE(Sky.Live @ Mar 11 2006, 01:16 AM)
lol, try carry and broke a few back bones?

can you clarified by what is by ears? listen and find out the chords?

my friend's teacher is not that "ganas" gua, just want take ruler and knock his finger when he played something wrongly LOL~~
*
You can't even carry a pipe organ - it's built as part of the building itself hehe, because it's too big!

Well, playing by ear may mean different things, for me it is actually replicating the piece - playing every note exactly (This is for classical pieces). It's simpler to do with composers like haydn, mozart... although the late romantic stuff - forget trying to replicate them by ear.

Hmm. I don't think a single one of my teachers has ever knocked my fingers with a ruler hehe..
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post Mar 11 2006, 03:06 PM

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i cant even play with my fingers...
how can u play with ur ear?
Sky.Live
post Mar 11 2006, 06:36 PM

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QUOTE(hoongern @ Mar 11 2006, 04:04 PM)
You can't even carry a pipe organ - it's built as part of the building itself hehe, because it's too big!

Well, playing by ear may mean different things, for me it is actually replicating the piece - playing every note exactly (This is for classical pieces). It's simpler to do with composers like haydn, mozart... although the late romantic stuff - forget trying to replicate them by ear.

Hmm. I don't think a single one of my teachers has ever knocked my fingers with a ruler hehe..
*
lol, coz he learned since very young i guess..

i see, pipe organ, seems familiar, is there such organ which uses the stalactite in cave? it produce some real natural and smooth tune...

hmm, seems that piano's dream is too far for me for the moment.. make take guitar classical ..

QUOTE(washabushi @ Mar 11 2006, 04:06 PM)
i cant even play with my fingers...
how can u play with ur ear?
*
by listening, not by using ear to tab...
Pix
post Mar 11 2006, 11:30 PM

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i didn't read previous posts, so apologies (in advance) for repeating or being off-topic wink.gif
playing by ear means basically that you are able to play what you hear. For instance, here are few extreme cases, when you're really good at it :
- you hear a song *for the first time* and are able to play it immediately, almost in-sync with the CD.
- you imagine a melody or a chord *gasp* or a chord's progression *double-gasp* in your head, and instantaneously you're able to play it.

There are methods to train your ears, i've seen some exercises in my guitar books. Most of it implies singing along when you play (i mean sing exactly what you play, not something else laugh.gif )
Sky.Live
post Mar 12 2006, 06:58 PM

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QUOTE(Pix @ Mar 12 2006, 12:30 AM)
i didn't read previous posts, so apologies (in advance) for repeating or being off-topic wink.gif
playing by ear means basically that you are able to play what you hear. For instance, here are few extreme cases, when you're really good at it :
- you hear a song *for the first time* and are able to play it immediately, almost in-sync with the CD.
- you imagine a melody or a chord *gasp* or a chord's progression *double-gasp* in your head, and instantaneously you're able to play it.

There are methods to train your ears, i've seen some exercises in my guitar books. Most of it implies singing along when you play (i mean sing exactly what you play, not something else laugh.gif )
*
but that seriously need lotsa tallent right? i guess i dun have much talent.. will need lots of hardwork if i were into it
Pix
post Mar 12 2006, 11:13 PM

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talent ? a bit... but it's mostly work and experience.
for instance, i can think a simple melody and play it right out of my head... but can't do it with chords (yet ?). It sounds amazingly difficult, but if you focus on it for a while, i'm pretty sure you can reach it.
It's just music, you can always give it a shot, even if you're a little scared biggrin.gif Or try to base-jump from KLCC, that should relativize...
Sky.Live
post Mar 13 2006, 07:46 AM

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QUOTE(Pix @ Mar 13 2006, 12:13 AM)
talent ? a bit...  but it's mostly work and experience.
for instance, i can think a simple melody and play it right out of my head... but can't do it with chords (yet ?). It sounds amazingly difficult, but if you focus on it for a while, i'm pretty sure you can reach it.
It's just music, you can always give it a shot, even if you're a little scared biggrin.gif Or try to base-jump from KLCC, that should relativize...
*
i have no idea what is base jump from KLCC.. huh.gif

chiam_ace
post Nov 6 2006, 08:33 PM

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To the threadstarter.

Under the guidance of my mother I started learning piano when I was 4 years old. It was fun at first, and slowly as I started my classical grades it became tedious and I hated it, for the teachers who scold me for not playing pieces well every week (I was very lazy to practice) and for my parents who gave me huge amounts of pressure for playing well.

It wasn't til around Grade 6 when I really liked to piano. So since you're around 20 that means you do have a mature mind I assume (lol dont take the offense) and therefore classical piano learning, while tedious, you wouldn't be so easily frustrated because YOU KNOW that you want to learn it.

As with the piano teachers I STRONGLY recommend that you learn from a qualified piano teacher. Unless you have amazing out-of-the-world talent, you will not play it correctly. You might think it's played correctly, maybe by google or ear or etc. But you won't know if you played it the wrong way anyway. And really, get an acoustic piano. 2nd hands won't cost too much beyond your 1k budget.

To the guys who are on instrument self-learning, piano is fairly easy in the early stages. Most pianists will agree with me. One of the main differences piano learning is different from other instruments is the syncronization of both hands. Non-keyboard instruments cannot produce both melody and the accompaniment on their own (correct me if there's any that could, I cannot think of any now). The hard part of learning piano playing comes in the later stages. With the piano and skill, you can literally produce the whole orchestra's sound (or almost the whole) of some pieces into a single piano. That's when the hard part comes in smile.gif

Personally I'm able to play Liszt's piano transcription of the Beethoven's 9th Symphony, 4th movement. Learning solely this piece took me a long time. Piano is different from other instruments like guitars or harmonicas, both which I can play as well, so no "you don't know the guitar" stuff.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


A page from Liszt's piano transcription of Beethoven's 9th Symphony, 4th movement. This isn't something you can play by self learning. Piano playing ISN'T anything like Marry Had A Little Lamb. That's like strumming all the strings on guitars, or blowing randomly into the harmonica, which a baby can do.

Oh by the way, so far as I know, good Chopin pieces doesn't come in the early stages of piano. They aren't easy at all. Bach is different though, you can find some easier pieces of Bach without effort.

This post has been edited by chiam_ace: Nov 6 2006, 08:43 PM
SUSgogo2
post Nov 6 2006, 10:48 PM

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Hi thread starter...

I think no one start as old as me. I just start this year. 2 months ago. I bought Casio Privia PX-300 at RM1750. It is hammer weighted 88 key digital piano. The sound lose to P70 but has a lot of feature because PX-300 is stage piano while P70 is just basic piano (but sound really nice).

Since digital piano is cheap, I cannot recommend buying a keyboard unless you want a lot of synthesize sound.

And about self learning, I think its not advisable. I've gotten myself a teacher from Yamaha and it cost RM75 per month. So far so good. I can play some interesting pieces such as Got those blues, joy to the world, cockles and mussels etc...which is quite fun. But I think the learning is getting harder. Before this, I feel fun. But now, I feel stress...tongue.gif So, the important thing is, persevere. Talk is cheap. I hope I can do it. By the way, I think those pieces is not even grade 1... tongue.gif

EDITED : Wait wait, by the way, I'm 28

This post has been edited by gogo2: Nov 6 2006, 10:48 PM
anggoh
post Dec 4 2006, 02:18 AM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Nov 6 2006, 11:48 PM)
Hi thread starter...

I think no one start as old as me. I just start this year. 2 months ago. I bought Casio Privia PX-300 at RM1750. It is hammer weighted 88 key digital piano. The sound lose to P70 but has a lot of feature because PX-300 is stage piano while P70 is just basic piano (but sound really nice).

Since digital piano is cheap, I cannot recommend buying a keyboard unless you want a lot of synthesize sound.

And about self learning, I think its not advisable. I've gotten myself a teacher from Yamaha and it cost RM75 per month. So far so good. I can play some interesting pieces such as Got those blues, joy to the world, cockles and mussels etc...which is quite fun. But I think the learning is getting harder. Before this, I feel fun. But now, I feel stress...tongue.gif So, the important thing is, persevere. Talk is cheap. I hope I can do it. By the way, I think those pieces is not even grade 1... tongue.gif

EDITED : Wait wait, by the way, I'm 28
*
Hi there, I just got my piano lesson. Today's my first lesson. I'm now looking for piano- digital ones, as my hse is small to put a larger piano. Just to ask you, whr do you get your casion piano at so cheap price?


Bassix
post Dec 4 2006, 06:12 AM

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QUOTE(chiam_ace @ Nov 6 2006, 01:33 PM)

To the guys who are on instrument self-learning, piano is fairly easy in the early stages. Most pianists will agree with me. One of the main differences piano learning is different from other instruments is the syncronization of both hands. Non-keyboard instruments cannot produce both melody and the accompaniment on their own (correct me if there's any that could, I cannot think of any now).

*
2-hand tapping on bass/guitar is an example requires sync of both hands on a non keyboard instrument. Example jean baudin (11-string bass) and michael hedges (10-string harp guitar). Hedges is a better example of using a single instrument to acquire accompaniment, melody and percussion all in one. It's not easy, probably even harder than piano (but i wouldnt know cause i quit piano long time ago....and regret it now). That's why only a few people manage to reach that stage. But it can be done and has been proven.
hoongern
post Dec 4 2006, 09:41 AM

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I don't think you can compare instruments like that. They are all just too different from each other to compare them. I think that certain instruments may be easier to 'learn' than others, but at a certain level, mastering them is just as difficult, from one instrument to the other.

I'm a pianist.. and last year I took up the trombone - on which I have advanced really quickly - but the challenges I faced were totally different. On a piano, once you've hit the note, generally you don't think about it at all. The sound just decays and you can't do anything about it. Whereas on a trombone, even though I can (typically) only play a note at a time, there so much more you can do with the note - you can bring down the volume in the middle and make it louder again, you can add vibrato, you can do many things to the tone quality, etc etc.

Piano requires sync between the two hands, trombone requires sync between the hand and the lip. And trombone playing is very athletic. You have to think about your breathing, lip muscles, etc. Or perhaps it seems to me that way because perhaps I've been playing the piano much longer than I've been playing the trombone.

Hope everyone knows what a trombone is!

But my point is, I don't think you can say one is harder than another.
Bassix
post Dec 4 2006, 04:01 PM

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wrong choice of words. I meant to say that there are possibilities of playing accompaniment and melody on non-keyboard instruments.
SUSgogo2
post Dec 20 2006, 04:20 PM

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QUOTE(anggoh @ Dec 4 2006, 02:18 AM)
Hi there, I just got my piano lesson. Today's my first lesson. I'm now looking for piano- digital ones, as my hse is small to put a larger piano. Just to ask you, whr do you get your casion piano at so cheap price?
*
I got it at lelong.com.my.... tongue.gif someone decided to sell it after 2 months usage. Still got 10 months warranty...

anem88
post Dec 22 2006, 01:57 PM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Nov 6 2006, 10:48 PM)
Hi thread starter...

I think no one start as old as me. I just start this year. 2 months ago. I bought Casio Privia PX-300 at RM1750. It is hammer weighted 88 key digital piano. The sound lose to P70 but has a lot of feature because PX-300 is stage piano while P70 is just basic piano (but sound really nice).

Since digital piano is cheap, I cannot recommend buying a keyboard unless you want a lot of synthesize sound.

And about self learning, I think its not advisable. I've gotten myself a teacher from Yamaha and it cost RM75 per month. So far so good. I can play some interesting pieces such as Got those blues, joy to the world, cockles and mussels etc...which is quite fun. But I think the learning is getting harder. Before this, I feel fun. But now, I feel stress...tongue.gif So, the important thing is, persevere. Talk is cheap. I hope I can do it. By the way, I think those pieces is not even grade 1... tongue.gif

EDITED : Wait wait, by the way, I'm 28
*

hey,
wat is da fee for a home tutor? i need a piano teacher dat can teach me at my hostel.. n how did u get a teacher from yamaha?

SUSgogo2
post Dec 23 2006, 04:52 PM

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QUOTE(anem88 @ Dec 22 2006, 01:57 PM)
hey,
wat is da fee for a home tutor? i need a piano teacher dat can teach me at my hostel.. n how did u get a teacher from yamaha?
*
I dunno the fee. Should be more expensive than 75. I go to shop sell Yamaha piano. They have teacher smile.gif Or maybe, try to get your friend who know piano to teach u and pay them rm20 per month tongue.gif
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post Mar 16 2008, 10:58 AM

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...

This post has been edited by coral_bay: Mar 4 2014, 12:41 PM
shuno221 P
post Nov 13 2019, 07:22 PM

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My grand father learned piano at 72 - so you can definitely get started with doing it now!

Below are best sites, resources to learn piano online in his humble opinion.

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This is a series of lessons that teach you how to play piano for yourself RIGHT from the VERY beginner all the way to the late intermediate/ early advanced stage of piano. These lessons have been RESHOT and these are the new lessons.
Here are the playlist: Learn How To Play Piano (NEW) - YouTube
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1) Adult All-In-1 Course: Level 1
2) Alfred’s Basic Piano Course for Adults
3) Piano Scales, Lessons with Elements of Basic Music Theory
4) Adult Piano Adventures All-in-One Piano Course Book 1
5) Modern Course for the Piano
6) John Thompson’s Easiest Piano Course
7) Alfred’s Self-Teaching Adult Piano Course
8) Primer Level – Lesson Book: Piano Adventures
9) Level 1 – Lesson Book: Piano Adventures
10) KP1B – Bastien Piano for Adults, 1 Book Only: A Beginning Course
11) Piano and Keyboard All-in-One for Dummies
12) Suzuki Piano School New International Edition Piano Book and CD, Volume 1
13) Piano Book for Adult Beginners

 

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