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 PROTON SAGA BLM, FL, FLX CLUB V22 - Live or Die

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TSr3apers
post Apr 25 2012, 04:18 PM

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QUOTE(coolkwc @ Apr 25 2012, 04:13 PM)
Cold Cranking Ampere.

Added on April 25, 2012, 4:16 pmWikipedia

Cranking amperes (CA), also sometimes referred to as marine cranking amperes (MCA), is the amount of current a battery can provide at 32 °F (0 °C). The rating is defined as the number of amperes a lead-acid battery at that temperature can deliver for 30 seconds and maintain at least 1.2 volts per cell (7.2 volts for a 12 volt battery).
Cold cranking amperes (CCA) is the amount of current a battery can provide at 0 °F (−18 °C). The rating is defined as the current a lead-acid battery at that temperature can deliver for 30 seconds and maintain at least 1.2 volts per cell (7.2 volts for a 12-volt battery). It is a more demanding test than those at higher temperatures.
Hot cranking amperes (HCA) is the amount of current a battery can provide at 80 °F (26.7 °C). The rating is defined as the current a lead-acid battery at that temperature can deliver for 30 seconds and maintain at least 1.2 volts per cell (7.2 volts for a 12-volt battery).

Seems like HCA is more important. hmm.gif
*
WoW~! shocking.gif
dares
post Apr 25 2012, 04:19 PM

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QUOTE(coolkwc @ Apr 25 2012, 04:13 PM)
Cold Cranking Ampere.

Added on April 25, 2012, 4:16 pmWikipedia

Cranking amperes (CA), also sometimes referred to as marine cranking amperes (MCA), is the amount of current a battery can provide at 32 °F (0 °C). The rating is defined as the number of amperes a lead-acid battery at that temperature can deliver for 30 seconds and maintain at least 1.2 volts per cell (7.2 volts for a 12 volt battery).
Cold cranking amperes (CCA) is the amount of current a battery can provide at 0 °F (−18 °C). The rating is defined as the current a lead-acid battery at that temperature can deliver for 30 seconds and maintain at least 1.2 volts per cell (7.2 volts for a 12-volt battery). It is a more demanding test than those at higher temperatures.
Hot cranking amperes (HCA) is the amount of current a battery can provide at 80 °F (26.7 °C). The rating is defined as the current a lead-acid battery at that temperature can deliver for 30 seconds and maintain at least 1.2 volts per cell (7.2 volts for a 12-volt battery).

Seems like HCA is more important. hmm.gif
*
rclxub.gif rclxub.gif
zeone
post Apr 25 2012, 04:23 PM

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QUOTE(xshiro @ Apr 25 2012, 04:08 PM)
look at the CCA rating..

higher CCA has better starting  power not necessarily need higher AH

but how old is ur battery? i suspect it will die soon..mine last for 2 years only
*
Batt coming to 13 mths...
CCA Rating?
Dun think it's stated on labels. Will re-chk later.
Tks, Bro!
coolkwc
post Apr 25 2012, 04:23 PM

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So difficult to understand meh... hmm.gif

Because during cranking, high power will cause battery voltage drop, and the less it drop, more powerful the battery is. Just it specified voltage drop within 30s cannot lower than 7.2V.

When cranking engine, our lamp will dim, because voltage is drop. Just as easy as that.

This post has been edited by coolkwc: Apr 25 2012, 04:24 PM
zeone
post Apr 25 2012, 04:26 PM

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QUOTE(cuteyman @ Apr 25 2012, 03:27 PM)
my thought if 60AH it has more juice power used to start the electrical motor right??
correct me if im wrong..electrical knowledge sux here...
*
Yup, me thought same as yu all these years... blush.gif
More juice stored, more juice can be drawn out at time of need.
Not true meh?
Phew... rclxub.gif
HughieRmX
post Apr 25 2012, 04:27 PM

::.. ♬|♪ HaRdC0Re TrAnCE AddiCT ♬|♪..::
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QUOTE(V12Kompressor @ Apr 25 2012, 01:31 PM)
nothing serious. engine explode only... tongue.gif

Joke aside, its nothing serious. What you'll experience will be torque dip in between 2,000rpm~4,000rpm which in turn will cause your FC to suffer a bit, especially in city drive.

cost ah? err... the valve shld cost around rm130 while the whole IAFM set prices vary depending on SC.
*
You really scared me off .. sweat.gif
does that means that the FC will be affected with this problem ? .. and you are referring to downgraded engine performance during city drive ?
I guess it will cost me approx. RM500 +- for this problem ..
dares
post Apr 25 2012, 04:39 PM

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QUOTE(HughieRmX @ Apr 25 2012, 04:27 PM)
You really scared me off .. sweat.gif
does that means that the FC will be affected with this problem ? .. and you are referring to downgraded engine performance during city drive ?
I guess it will cost me approx. RM500 +- for this problem ..
*
If you're replacing the whole IAFM module, ask if you can replace with the IAFM+ (IAFM plus).
zeone
post Apr 25 2012, 04:48 PM

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QUOTE(xshiro @ Apr 25 2012, 04:08 PM)
look at the CCA rating..

higher CCA has better starting  power not necessarily need higher AH
*
UPDATE:

CCA Rating for stock Saga 1.3 Auto : 430

So is that good or high enuf?

My Batt, if car not moved for 1 day, voltage drops to 11.9V only.
After moving arnd town, it goes up to 12.4V.

Alternator appears ok cos ranges from 13.9 to 14.5V, depending on what accessories are on...eg aircon, HU, MedKlinn Asense Auto....etc.

Btw me just cut open vent holes of Batt as earlier suggested by Bro aidlover.
Refilled with distilled water in cells where fluid is low. Only Vent # 4 from left was normal altho others still had the plates still covered.
Now let's hope that little bit helps... nod.gif
TQ, Bro aidlover!

Juz to share...a pic of how me cut opened the label on top of the Batt & opened the "screw" cap to refill with distilled water (leftover from my ole ride!!) :
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
aidlover
post Apr 25 2012, 04:50 PM

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lol.

why cut?
tear off that whole piece of paper only lar..

it should able to last.

*touchwood* mine already 2.5 years and still can use.
car with amp sumore..
zeone
post Apr 25 2012, 04:59 PM

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QUOTE(coolkwc @ Apr 25 2012, 04:13 PM)
Cold Cranking Ampere.

Added on April 25, 2012, 4:16 pmWikipedia

Cranking amperes (CA), also sometimes referred to as marine cranking amperes (MCA), is the amount of current a battery can provide at 32 °F (0 °C). The rating is defined as the number of amperes a lead-acid battery at that temperature can deliver for 30 seconds and maintain at least 1.2 volts per cell (7.2 volts for a 12 volt battery).
Cold cranking amperes (CCA) is the amount of current a battery can provide at 0 °F (−18 °C). The rating is defined as the current a lead-acid battery at that temperature can deliver for 30 seconds and maintain at least 1.2 volts per cell (7.2 volts for a 12-volt battery). It is a more demanding test than those at higher temperatures.
Hot cranking amperes (HCA) is the amount of current a battery can provide at 80 °F (26.7 °C). The rating is defined as the current a lead-acid battery at that temperature can deliver for 30 seconds and maintain at least 1.2 volts per cell (7.2 volts for a 12-volt battery).

Seems like HCA is more important. hmm.gif
*
Tks, Bro, for above detailed explanation of CCA & HCA.
Fyi me cld not find HCA value on label of Batt but CCA is 430. Feel this rating is when Batt is FULLY charged.

Now after 1 year use and NOT being fully charged most of time cos not moved much most days, dun think it's 430 anymore... sad.gif

So can expect more cranking/starting probs ahead?
That time, the engine cranks but won't start...
After a few cranks, the engine started but stuttered & died a couple secs later!
Only after 6-8 attempts with pauses inbetween, the engine started & ran well...

Since then, no repeats....Thk Goodness!! thumbup.gif
Still dunno why...?? rclxub.gif

Added on April 25, 2012, 5:01 pm
QUOTE(aidlover @ Apr 25 2012, 04:50 PM)
lol.

why cut?
tear off that whole piece of paper only lar..

it should able to last.

*touchwood* mine already 2.5 years and still can use.
car with amp sumore..
*
Why cut?
Still looks nice mah... brows.gif brows.gif

Yup, Good4yu, Bro!
Now wish me same luck as yu lo... rolleyes.gif

ps. TQ agin! rclxms.gif

This post has been edited by zeone: Apr 25 2012, 05:01 PM
coolkwc
post Apr 25 2012, 05:12 PM

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QUOTE(zeone @ Apr 25 2012, 04:48 PM)
UPDATE:

CCA Rating for stock Saga 1.3 Auto : 430

So is that good or high enuf?

My Batt, if car not moved for 1 day, voltage drops to 11.9V only.
After moving arnd town, it goes up to 12.4V.

Alternator appears ok cos ranges from 13.9 to 14.5V, depending on what accessories are on...eg aircon, HU, MedKlinn Asense Auto....etc.

Btw me just cut open vent holes of Batt as earlier suggested by Bro aidlover.
Refilled with distilled water in cells where fluid is low. Only Vent # 4 from left was normal altho others still had the plates still covered.
Now let's hope that little bit helps... nod.gif
TQ, Bro aidlover!

Juz to share...a pic of how me cut opened the label on top of the Batt & opened the "screw" cap to refill with distilled water (leftover from my ole ride!!) :
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

*
Why so low even stop for 1 day only?

My battery voltage lowest 12.2V when I parked almost a week. unsure.gif

For everyday usage, night stop engine and check again on morning, around 12.4-12.5V.

Anyway, i got LED vol meter install at battery terminal, the reading is tally with my voltmeter.
zeone
post Apr 25 2012, 05:29 PM

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QUOTE(coolkwc @ Apr 25 2012, 05:12 PM)
Why so low even stop for 1 day only?

My battery voltage lowest 12.2V when I parked almost a week. unsure.gif

For everyday usage, night stop engine and check again on morning, around 12.4-12.5V.

Anyway, i got LED vol meter install at battery terminal, the reading is tally with my voltmeter.
*
Voltage was measured by digital voltmeter (chap ayam wan) connected to Fusebox terminal in dashboard rt side.
There is strong possibility my Batt is NOT retaining charge well...
OR there is MORE leakage via GOK.... sweat.gif

Hv read somewhere that car alarm uses <0.5A (daily)...VS??
Dunno if anything else...

Will re-chk Batt voltage at Batt terminals later using my multimeter... tongue.gif

ps. Tks a meg, Bro...for responses & info!! notworthy.gif

This post has been edited by zeone: Apr 25 2012, 05:38 PM
coolkwc
post Apr 25 2012, 05:35 PM

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As I said, i parked for 1 week without cranking and with alarm engaged, voltage still above 12V, so i think maybe ur multimeter not accurate, or just tap at battery terminal for accurate result.
davidke20
post Apr 25 2012, 05:49 PM

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After I spent money kau² this 2 months, eg:

1) To downpayment my 2nd hand BLM
2) Restore the thing so its drive-able since it stationed for a year, things include
- Battery
- Industrial alcohol(pour into petrol tank to start the car, to clean all the residue in the petrol tank)
- Air-Filter
- Engine oil + oil filter
- Gear oil
- Power steering fluid
- Brake fluid
- None anti-freeze radiator fluid with anti rust
3) Sport rims + tyres
4) New OEM door frame seal
5) Vacuum gauge and holder + soft silicone vacuum hose

When I was happily wandering why am I having so much extra cash in hand... blink.gif my company hand me a letter shocking.gif , contain EA form inside shakehead.gif cry.gif icon_question.gif

This post has been edited by davidke20: Apr 25 2012, 08:06 PM
zeone
post Apr 25 2012, 06:17 PM

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QUOTE(davidke20 @ Apr 25 2012, 05:49 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

When I was happily wandering why am I having so much extra cash in hand... blink.gif  my company hand me a letter , contain EA form inside

p/s: Some finding regarding FC issue of BL M after installed my vacuum meter, click here to find out more
*
Re yr shocking.gif over EA form....
As has been oft quoted...
Only 2 things are certain in Life...
The 1st one is Death...
The 2nd is ... u kno la... brows.gif brows.gif

Ok. Over to car thing...
Re aircon compressor affecting BLM/FL FC, the compressor fitted to these cars are meant for 1000 to 2000 cc engines!!
And BLMs/FLs are more nearer to the 1000 cc range, correct?
So....u kno la... whistling.gif

This post has been edited by zeone: Apr 25 2012, 08:06 PM
davidke20
post Apr 25 2012, 08:07 PM

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Missing post happened quite often lately. Don't know why. But I saw your reply. Yes, 2 thing in the world is unavoidable, which is death and tax. sweat.gif

Recent observation of SAGA BLM's vacuum reading as below:
user posted image
Idling without air-con compressor, around 18inches mercury vacuum
user posted image
Idling with air-con compressor, around 13inches mercury vacuum

5 inches of vacuum has wasted on the air-con compressor alone! Those who keep on complaining BLM draining petrol, having your air-con running idle in the car whilst waiting for your mother come out from pasar, or waiting for your girlfriend off the office is seriously unwise.

Meanwhile, I'm considering to change air-con compressor whenever I see fit. Just to make sure I get a lighter compressor so I have less power loss and hopefully better fuel efficiency.

p/s: Whenever income tax is around the corner, all we can think of is where have all the money gone? Now I know part of the expanses has contributed to unwanted/not needed waste of petrol whilst waiting for appointment in the car. Instead, next time get down the vehicle have a quick smoke or get a bottle of mineral water to chill out your hot brain(or you can do beer laugh.gif ).

Added on April 25, 2012, 8:12 pm
QUOTE(zeone @ Apr 25 2012, 06:17 PM)
Ok. Over to car thing...
Re aircon compressor affecting BLM/FL FC, the compressor fitted to these cars are meant for 1000 to 2000 cc engines!!
And BLMs/FLs are more nearer to the 1000 cc range, correct?
So....u kno la... whistling.gif
*
Moved back the post here better la. Over there is a hassle to switching discussion here & there, besides ERIC is not the boss here, not too worry though.

Regarding your statement of 1litre ~ 2 litre engine... hmm.gif I'm not too sure what you mean. But I can read it as HEAVY air-con compressor. 5 inches mercury vacuum is very abnormal. However, reading of vacuum all depending on the vehicle alone(not speaking for the entire model). So, it COULD BE my car alone having this problem. For now I'm sure my air-con compressor is the culprit of drinking all my petrol vmad.gif


This post has been edited by davidke20: Apr 25 2012, 08:12 PM
zeone
post Apr 25 2012, 08:16 PM

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QUOTE(davidke20 @ Apr 25 2012, 08:07 PM)
Missing post happened quite often lately. Don't know why. But I saw your reply. Yes, 2 thing in the world is unavoidable, which is death and tax. sweat.gif

Meanwhile, I'm considering to change air-con compressor whenever I see fit. Just to make sure I get a lighter compressor so I have less power loss and hopefully better fuel efficiency.

p/s: Whenever income tax is around the corner, all we can think of is where have all the money gone? Now I know part of the expanses has contributed to unwanted/not needed waste of petrol whilst waiting for appointment in the car. Instead, next time get down the vehicle have a quick smoke or get a bottle of mineral water to chill out your hot brain(or you can do beer laugh.gif ).
*
Fyi hv reposted but on refreshing, my other post in reply to Bro coolkwc disappeared pulak!! mad.gif
Nvr mind...nothing can b done... sweat.gif

Re a lighter compressor, yup...there is one of same make. Saw its specs but Proton opted to use larger capacity one for Sagas...
Dat's why our cooling beats most cars of same category!! thumbup.gif

Re not running the car with aircon on, as has been advised for econ driving, better to switch off engine completely if hv to wait for 5 mins or more... icon_idea.gif
Yup, lots of $$$ burning away... rolleyes.gif
dares
post Apr 25 2012, 08:20 PM

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Maybe that explain why everytime I do some DIY inside the car with aircon on, my km/L drops like a brick icon_question.gif . Even my old Waja don't drink like that on idle with aircon doh.gif
zeone
post Apr 25 2012, 08:21 PM

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QUOTE(coolkwc @ Apr 25 2012, 05:35 PM)
As I said, i parked for 1 week without cranking and with alarm engaged, voltage still above 12V, so i think maybe ur multimeter not accurate, or just tap at battery terminal for accurate result.
*
This is a repost!
Earlier one disappeared!!
Something is wrong @ LYN...

Anyway, me oledi re-chked readings using Sanwa Multimeter ( 0 - 50V range ) :

Readings taken at Batt terminals :

Engine NOT running : 11.5V (previously 11.9V)
Engine running : 13.5V (previously 14.5V)

Now which is correct? rclxub.gif rclxub.gif

Me got another multimeter ie Gunsons (?).
Will chk 2moro...
Dun wan feed mossies!!
Got dengue case nearby...KK ppl came smoked the area y'day!! sweat.gif

Added on April 25, 2012, 8:31 pmFor everyone interested...
Info re SANDEN AIRCON COMPRESSOR fitted to FLs (mine being used as reference) :

Model No. SD7H15
Type : Wobble Plate Type
Bore : 29.3mm
Stroke : 32.8mm
Displacement/Rev : 154.9cc/rev
No. of cylinders : 7
Max Allowable Continuous RPM : 7000
Refrigerant : HFC 134a
Oil (Sanden SP20) : 135cc
Total Weight with clutch & oil : 5.6kg

Suitable for 1000 to 2000cc engines.

Hope yu guys now know abit more abt one more item in yr car... rolleyes.gif

Added on April 25, 2012, 8:44 pm
QUOTE(davidke20 @ Apr 25 2012, 08:07 PM)
5 inches of vacuum has wasted on the air-con compressor alone!

Meanwhile, I'm considering to change air-con compressor whenever I see fit. Just to make sure I get a lighter compressor so I have less power loss and hopefully better fuel efficiency.

Regarding your statement of 1litre ~ 2 litre engine... hmm.gif  I'm not too sure what you mean. But I can read it as HEAVY air-con compressor. 5 inches mercury vacuum is very abnormal. However, reading of vacuum all depending on the vehicle alone(not speaking for the entire model). So, it COULD BE my car alone having this problem. For now I'm sure my air-con compressor is the culprit of drinking all my petrol  vmad.gif
*
For one, drop in vacuum high could be due2 point of tapping the engine vac...
Chk & see if can find another more direct tapping point ie if possible w/o sharing with other use of car vac.
Hope yu kno wat me trying to say here... tongue.gif

1 - 2L engine?
Means compressor as fitted is suitable for use by engines from as low as 1L and up to as high as 2L ie it'll provide sufficient cooling power when used by such capacity engines.
But then, of course, the load on those engines nearer the bottom 1L range, wld be much higher than the load on the 2L engines...
Namely a less powerful engine (1L) turning/working a compressor suitable also for a 2L engine....

Added on April 25, 2012, 8:47 pm****Now...where is everybody again?
****MIA oledi?

Late dinner...maybe?

This post has been edited by zeone: Apr 25 2012, 08:47 PM
dares
post Apr 25 2012, 09:03 PM

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Tered ni ade hantu delete zeone's posts ph34r.gif
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