i see
btw the speaker manufacturer must have spent a lot of R&D for the passives
so wondering is it even worth it?
as if i wanna run active i need to do rewiring and that costs time lol

morel tempo passive is really simple..haha

6db xover..excellent phase integration

u mean this izso

its the same/similar as car performance:
car engineers/designers spent a lot of R&D, however it is mainly tuned for driver's comfort, NVH, fuel economy. where by the performance petrol head probably cares none of those and seek out performance parts and modifications.

even my cheapo boston S60 passive looks more complicated. however having much smaller components/caps inside

this is minimalist approach

For audio system its different lol
No comfort nvh and fuel economy -.-
So what is in the engineers mind.should be achieving the best sound
Speaker vs engine is two different things so please explain more why not they make it perform the best apart from price issue

U will be surprised when u see German maestro concept crossover lol
Very simple but sounds better than most speakers in that pric level with more complex crossover

Epic

the concept is same: it is R&D'd to achieve "the best sound" designed for their speaker drivers, while having cost conservation in mind, and/or ease of production (eg: hand made components are bad in this compared to something that can be mass produced by machines)

also, "best sound" is VERY subjective to every individual.

just like an engine, or suspension where an engineer designs it to have good FC or comfort ride, a sound engineer would design their passives to produce the "best sound" in their own vision (along with other factors such as cost/production as i have mentioned)

bear in mind, a lot of "analog sounding" or "high end SQ" systems will have the highest/lowest top/bottom end of the frequencies rolled off, or even have uneven frequencies response to emphasize on the whole "analog sound" or "high end premium SQ sound"

but, is it really "high fidelity" that you're listening to? or just frequencies rolled off and achieving smoother highs/trebles?

it is also a known fact that a human's capability in hearing will diminish as one ages. not to mention a high preference of silver based cables/conductivity materials for older people, as it is claimed "to have better clarity".
is it really "better clarity", or just simply forcing details out while inadvertently sacrificing the lower frequencies? (i really can't stand silver based cables, too harsh, and lol no bass)
another example would be Grado's high end TOTL flagship headphone (limited production PS1, which is tuned by john grado himself) had a lot of controversial around it

See, for headphone/audiophiles, there are already scientifically proven methods for performing tests, so the "human error" factor/variable can be eliminated:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/headphone-mea...ment-procedures

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headp...e-wave-response

http://www.innerfidelity.com/headphone-data-sheet-downloads

after all, it is in my believe that sound reproduction is created thanks to science, and it is science that we owe to to have any form of accurate measurements and disputes
in translation of this to car performance:
dyno machine vs our typical malaysian butt dyno.
actual BHP/WHP figures will trump any "LEBIH MANTAP"/"SMOOTHER ACCELERATION" claims.

the one thing of having a shit ton of various hobbies is what while i may or may not enjoy the high end/end result of everything, at least i enjoy the time researching various information of every hobby and apply them, and enjoy the fruits of labor from it

i'll end this long post as it is getting a lil out of topic and would probably scare a lot of newbies away, not to mention this is after all, a very controversial and subjective topic
if you want to proceed further can always pm, or we can have a tt chat about it someday haha

Haih

A passive can do a lot, yes...but paying the money and time? Think think think..............

Not to say p is no good, but it's a lot time n money wasted to achieve something that you can achieve by just press some button. U can do a very good p, but the effort are quite a waste for me. With new tech, press some button can yield the result...why waste time? Ok maybe the so called "taste" are not good enuff, but are u sure the taste are meant to be there? Or because of some personal preference that may want something more stand out than the others?
Spending more than 1k for a custom is a waste?

A crossover just split the freq range a spk can play....some spk required minor eq tuned at crossover but it should be minimum. Overly done the passive will only make the spk losing its identity...so why do it overly? The easiest solution is by buying the suitable speaker. Then you are almost done. Doing a passive doesn't mean you are higher grade than others.
I had met a lot of these case, which a guy that love spl but he keep saying he wan sq so he think he will get higher rank in audio enthusiasts respective level...which to me, he just dunno wat he wanted...most guy go to audio shop's purpose are just wanted to get some bass so he can blast till the car vibrate like hell....but after few month or if he is deaf enuff, few years. He either quit audio or turn back to use oem...why? Because he never realise how true the sound can be..he just know how loud the sound can go in the past and its boring to listen to loud music everyday..some tell me they reached the nirvana before, but after he tested 4 to 5k setup from me, he dare not to say a word about his pass....

Back to topic, I had talk to some famous international brand's engineer in person and I had ask them about the passive..you know what they said? "Crossover are just used to separating the frequency range for our speaker to play well and sound as it should be, there's no need to build another 1 that make our speaker sound like others. If you want it to sound like others, just buy other speakers." This word are harsh to listen, but its truth. Or maybe the engineers are too confidence with them selves. Whether you accept or not, suit yourself.

Oh I found out a good reason to custom passive, which is when the oem passive crossover setting doesnt fit to the specific model of car...just 1 % maybe...this can be a reason for u to custom passive....But, why dun use active to settle it more easily?

Found out another reason why build passive than active...this may be harsh but its also a truth...the truth is, not everyone can tune a active.....not everyone will know how to tune them...this happen to most audio industry related person..not only customer ...some simply changing the same values cap or coil to another better build and call it a day without really look into whats need to be done...this make a good reason for passive buildings...

At the end, no matter active or passive, I respect both especially the endless energy to build the passive...but I wont think that the time and money spend to build it are a creditable point to me that you are better and more knowledgeable. The ability to make the system sounds as it should be will be the final judge of how good you are.

This post has been edited by howiechoo: Jan 26 2013, 12:06 AM

well said bro

btw aku nak SPL

but yea, a lot of people wonder why i can stay at my ICE level easily despite having SO MUCH poison from various sifus/setups/TTs etc.

secret? not a lot really. i just knew what i want, and so far i haven't found a setup that fits what i want 100%

you know, ICE, just like any other hobbies, are about what YOU want. who cares if you want to load up 15" x6 woofers in your car and shatter windscreens (no seriously, check out that youtube ROFL)
its YOUR ICE, not anyone else's
chasing something that isn't what you want, will just end up in a journey that you will never be happy.
what is the point in reaching a nirvana that turns out completely opposite of what you envisioned?

here look at this definition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana

what is nirvana, when you STILL desire more? what is nirvana when you still "suffer" from various dilemma on what to upgrade/buy?

btw been listening to loud music every day back/forth work mondays to fridays at a minimum 2 hours per day = 10 hours/week = ~40 hours/month since year 2008/2009
almost certain to f*** my hearing as i grow older in age

Quaza u should get 10unitz of w7's lol

Bro so u decide ady? Passive or active? U bought 1 more amp ady rite?

need to listen to your car first hahaha
then i will decide lol
yea

you buy for me sure

ezmeer : "A lotta money" is debatable. It's just frequency separation as howie pointed out so as long as he/she (the designer) has sound electrical knowledge they can make one out quite easily. I guess the "lots of money" would be spent on that persons salary.

Carcrazy : I can't see the pic but i'm guessing it's one of your psychotic custom passives. If yes - YES.. siao gila babi betul.

Howie : aisay man. One mans poison is another another mans meat. It's kinda like how I enjoy fiddling with my car to squeeze out extra power. The amount of money I've already spent on my car far exceeds me buying a brand new (more powerful) Kia Forte 2.0. But I haven't chosen to upgrade or change to another car because I like my car. So it's the same for passive users, they just like the hobby of messing with passive components and achieving something different.

Having said all that I've done both custom passives, active direct to the amp, external crossover and even processors and I can safely say I like active/processors best. external crossover too cumbersome to adjust from the boot and passives just aren't cost effective to me.

this is one f**kin passive crossover!!