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English Clubs Liverpool FC- The Kop Talk 2012, Liverpool 2-1 Everton- FA CUP FINAL NEXT

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pingpang
post Apr 9 2012, 11:56 AM

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I am no Kops fan, but please permit me to voice my piece.

First and foremost, the management of LFC should stick by KD. Look at what MU did in the late 90s to AF. They gave him the benefit of doubt and he build a strong team in 2 - 3 years.
IMO, KD should make some changes on the players and find the core players that he wanted the whole team to play around. He should use different strategy in confronting different teams. So far I can only see Gerard as being the better players among all the current players in the team.
I do hope to see a better Liverpool team emerge in next season. (see how Arsenal has slowly becoming a strong team even after the sales of their better players this season)

Have a Good Day.
pingpang
post Apr 9 2012, 12:24 PM

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QUOTE(Mikeshashimi @ Apr 9 2012, 12:21 PM)
who say we no glory to hunt!? Carling cup okay! tongue.gif

Why compare Fergie with KD?

Fergie is Fergie, KD is KD.

Liverpool players cant play together, individually they are probably good, but as a unit they're shit. Look at Rooney and Welbeck. the whole United squad is amazing together. You cant say we dont have good players, or they have better players. Because individually both teams have almost the same abilities when it comes to players. We just dont play as well together as they do. thats why they're champions again this season (fo sho).
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Not yet.
Still some games to go before declaring MU as the league champion.
pingpang
post Apr 10 2012, 11:26 AM

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QUOTE(Adryan @ Apr 9 2012, 06:54 PM)
Kenny Dalglish inherited a squad very low on morale, confidence and that seemed broken.

It's never easy to fix that in one season and there's alot of work that needs to be done. The same way Ferguson inherited that squad back in 1986(?).

Ferguson can now afford to only add one to two quality players into his starting eleven because he's already got the squad he wanted, which took years to build.

A new manager that comes in will always have to spend more because he would want his own players to play in the tactics he wants to set up.

If Kenny Dalglish is sacked or steps down, we'll just have another manager who will be in the same process and we may yield the same results and then everyone wants him sacked as well and the cycle will keep repeating.

You need to have some stability because uncertainties will have affect on players as well and Kenny at least deserves that chance to make it right.
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Yes, I agree on the continuity part.
Not only KD should remain as where he is now, he should spend some $$ on good players to be the core players in the team. Currently, KD's team, despite not getting the points (and losses), they are not playing too shabbily either, hitting the woodwork so many times (not sure any other team also hit the woodwork as many times as LFC). I hope KD will spend wisely and IMO, one or two defender, one midfielder will do it..

So far, I can only see Adam as KD's 'choice' (which unfortunately didnt met expectations), but there are Henderson, Carrol & Downing but apart from Henderson & Downing in midfield position, Carrol is not suitable for the current Liverpool type of game. Individually, these are above average players, but to make them gel as ateam is another issue.
pingpang
post Apr 10 2012, 12:00 PM

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QUOTE(Adryan @ Apr 10 2012, 05:24 AM)
Barcelona is Barcelona tongue.gif they are from a different planet!! They only compete with a few teams for La Liga and Spanish domestic titles. We've got to compete with Man City, Man United and Chelsea who can spend! Plus Spurs, Arsenal and Newcastle now.

They did go trophyless for 4 years between 5 managers (see, changing of managers). And Rijkaard won his first title in his second season (time given).

Anyways, the current Barcelona squad consists of a manager who played under the system revamped by then manager, Johan Cruyff and players who grew up playing in the la masia academy revamped by Cruyff so basically they've got a manager and the players all playing in the same way practically their whole life.

Same can't be said about us.
Yes, he 'built' the current squad but it is never going to be a walk in a park when you put in four or five new players in the team at once and hope they win titles. He's had to get rid of alot of deadwood players - Konchesky, Cole, Poulsen, El Zhar, Degen and such.
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In any team, there is bound to be some "deadwood" players.
Building a better Liverpool team is the order of the day. This is what is facing KD. LFC has been out of the CL for the past 2 or 3 seasons, so the rebuilding / remodelling of the team will be a slow and ardous. But give KD a chance, just like SAF started out with MU in the late 1980s (that time LFC rules the English Football scene)

My analysis :
1) The team style of play have been over-reliant on 1 or 2 players. Nothing wrong with that, as other teams also did that like MU relying on CRonaldo and Rooney, Chelsea relying on Lampard and Terry etc. Whereas KD is trying to instill a system of pass and move, like what Barca or Arsenal is doing and not relying on 1 or 2 players, given time, this system should bear fruit. I hope KD will elevated the youth players from LFC and after 2 or 3 years, the system shold bear fruits. Of course, the current players in the team now like Spearo, Flanagan, Jonjo etc - these are young lads to build the team for the future.

2) LFC used to play (during Houllier and Rafa times) defensive and counter attacking style of football. This type of game is good for fast, pacey strikers (eg. Owen, Torres, Suarez). I believe KD is trying to build a team who plays a controlling type of gam through "pass and move". That's why KD is playing the youngsters even though they may be underperforming in order to built a close knitted team where everyone play to a system. (Like what is happening in Barca who have Iniesta, Xavi, Messi etc.) KD brought in Henderson, Spearo etc to supplement the lack of talent in LFC youth academy....

3) I agree that some of the current buys during KD time is questionable but how much can LFC expect these players after > 6 months with the team from tactical point of view. Adam use to be the "general" in midfield (attacking wise), but here, he support Gerrard and is on a holding role and Carrol came from a team that plays direct football, and with ample supply of good crosses. But is he getting enuf quality crossess at Liverpool?

All in all, this season is definitely gone for LFC in not getting the League Championship except one League Cup trophy and hopefully win it with a FA Cup.
pingpang
post Apr 10 2012, 03:02 PM

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QUOTE(sifekangel @ Apr 10 2012, 12:59 PM)
no.. he should learn from Moyes  tongue.gif
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I guess, KD should learn from all the better and more senior people like SAF, AW, Rednapp, Moyes etc.
These people learn the hard way all these years and has plentiful experience of turning mediocre team into match winners.
SAF - no need to elaborate as one can see where MU stood in the English Premier League.
AW - look at how he transform a young Arsenal team after losing key players like Fabregas, Nasri etc.
Rednapp - 2 or 3 seasons ago, Spurs were a mid-table team, but they are chasing the top 4 spot nowadays.
Moyes - my hats off to this guy; after building a quite a good team from a bunch of average players many seasons ago, he lost some players in the transfer market in the next seasons (Eg. Players like Arteta has gone to Arsenal)and Moyes has to build a again and he never stop building and building. Finally he has a team in the top 6 - 8 placing in the Premier League.


Added on April 10, 2012, 3:03 pm
QUOTE(Rotuham @ Apr 10 2012, 01:50 PM)
Everton with basically zero transfer kitty are 4 points ahead of us doh.gif
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Go figure.
Stability (in faith do Evertonians trust in Moyes) in the coaching and management of the football club.

This post has been edited by pingpang: Apr 10 2012, 03:03 PM
pingpang
post Apr 10 2012, 05:36 PM

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QUOTE(sifekangel @ Apr 10 2012, 03:34 PM)
Moyes turn ash into gold.. example, Rooney, Cahill, Arteta, Pienaar, Jagielka, Lescott, Baines, Howard, Gibson, Rodwell, Heitinga...
while, Liverpool turn gold into ash.. example, Caroll, Henderson, Maxi, El hadji diouf, Babel, Dossena, Voronin, Aquilani, Josemi, Morientes, KEANE!!
with tat bunch of money, i think Moyes can build 2 teams tat can compete in top 10... tongue.gif  tongue.gif
+! rclxm9.gif

Wit that kind of f$nds, Moyes really can build 2 great teams.
pingpang
post Apr 17 2012, 11:12 AM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Apr 17 2012, 10:30 AM)
It's been some time we can honestly say we were going to challenge for the Premiership. In the past 20 years, I can only only think of a small handful of occasions we realistically had a chance at climbing to the summit, most recently under Rafa when we went second and before that when we also finished 2nd under Gerard Houllier. Those were the only times I can remember us every being in pole position if even for just awhile. The season before that we finished 3rd, and thereafter we went on a freefall as our over reliance on Michael Owen's pace meant that we became predictable and as injuries blighted our fleet footed forward, we were blunt and toothless. More often than not, our target has always been a top four finish which is now made harder by the resurgence of Spurs and Newcastle, and the massive inheritence Man City have received. If there is one issue with Liverpool fans having long memories and drawing inspiration on our past, it's that expectations are sometimes unrealistic. If you read some early season comments, you would have seen some posters genuinely believe we were going to ursurp the mancs after just one closed season.

Winning cups has always masked our failure to compete for the Premiership. More so now than in the 90's when we won next to nothing. Rafa's win in the Champions League for example helped cloaked the fact that our league form was poor as we finished behind Everton.
Is right. They also littered the entire stadium by discarding the flags thereafter.
Yes, it has been a very long time since Reds won the league.
This season, Reds can still called it a success by winning the FA Cup against Chelsea.
(Note: League Cup already won)
Next year target - the League and UCL.

pingpang
post Apr 17 2012, 11:35 AM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Apr 17 2012, 11:20 AM)
Targetting the league next year will in my opinion, be unrealistic. With 4 games to go, we are a massive 36 points away from the summit. The 13 point gap to 4th however is surmountable but we will face strong opposition from Newcastle, Spurs, Man City, Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea, all of whom will strengthen during the break, especially the first two who have reached soaring heights and can expect a windfall for finishing further up the table than expected. In comparison, we are rumoured to be given a mere $30 million pound warchest, $5 million less than what Andy Carroll cost by himself.

The focus from what I've been reading is to groom players from the academy. It will be some time before we can realistically challenge for the title. You don't close the gap from almost 40 points to nothing in a season without massive cash injection. It simply is not going to happen for us next season.
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Agreed.
But I hope Reds dare to dream; that is why I put it that way.
If KD were to "blood" the academy players, it will be 2-3 years befoer Reds can see the fruits of their hard work.

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