This is the latest article from NST

"IN VIOLATION- Genneva business worth RM5.3million against Islamic law, alleges Muslim consumer group

KUALA LUMPUR: FOUR police reports have been lodged against Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd over gold trade worth RM5.3 million.

It was understood that one of the reports was lodged by the Muslim Consumers Association last month, alleging that the company's gold trading business had violated Islamic law as mentioned by the Fatwa Committee of the National Council of Islamic Religious Affairs Malaysia (NCIRAM).

The report was lodged at the Ampang police headquarters.

An association spokesman said the report was lodged after they received almost 30 complaints about the company from investors since May.

Meanwhile, three other reports were lodged by investors, including a 44-year-old manager from Singapore.

It is learnt that the woman, who bought gold bars from Genneva Pte Ltd in Singapore in 2009, had wanted to take out her gold bars from the company upon maturity.

The woman further claimed she sought the help of her consultant but was given the runaround.

After much pestering, the woman was told that the gold bars were kept at the Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd office in Jalan Kuchai Maju 6 here.

Meanwhile, another complainant, a technician in his 20s, claimed that he bought 150g of gold from the company for RM29,700 in May. He got the gold bar and received three months hibah (gift) from the company.

The company, however, failed to pay him back his money when he returned the gold bar to them last month. He lodged a police report after waiting for almost a month.

The last report was lodged by a 44-year-old self-employed woman who had bought gold bars worth RM260,000 at the end of last month.

She was shocked when she found out the company's business dealings were not endorsed by Bank Negara.

Sources said all police reports have been referred to Bank Negara for further action.

The gold trading company is believed to be under investigation for alleged illegal money taking as well as under the Direct Selling Act.

NCRIM in July issued an edict against transaction or investment with Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd stating that such transactions violated Islamic laws.

Its chairman, Professor Emeritus Tan Sri Abdul Shukor Husin, told Bernama that Bank Negara had attested that the company's transactions and investments did not fully comply with the Gold Investment Parameters recommended by the 96th Fatwa Committee of the NCIRAM Conference in June."

- New Straits Times

DID SOME OF THE GENNEVA SUPPORTERS SAY THERE WERE NO CMPLAINTS VS GENNEVA?

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Added on October 6, 2012, 1:49 amSome comments on Richard Chew's post.:

1. It is money lending when looked at from the point of view of one investor lending to multiple borrowers. But this borrower Genneva borrows from 60,000 lenders. So looked at from GENNEVA'S point of view it is the converse of lending, which is DEPOSIT TAKING. But for deposit taking you need a licence from Bank Negara. Without licence Bank Negara WILL RAID THE OPERATION AND CLOSE IT DOWN ! This is what happened to GENNEVA1, GOLD LABEL, ETIKA EMAS, BESTINO.

2. But this deposit taking operation seems to be an extremely disadvantageous one for GENNEVA. Take 100 units cash, got to use 80 units to buy the gold, left with only 20 units, BUT STILL PAY THE HIBAH AT 2% OR 3% PER MTH ON THE FULL AMOUNT OF 100 units !! They are paying hibah and commissions at the rate of 168% to 228% pa on this miserable 20 units the squeeze out of the deal. (See the recent YEE YEE FATT post above).

3. GENNEVA has a paid up capital of only RM50,000 !! Might as well be ZERO !!

4. GENNEVA masterminds NPW, MY, and CWL already facing charges under Genneva1 operation !!

5. Is it wise to put your money on deposit with such a co in these circumstances?


This post has been edited by scorpio55: Oct 6 2012, 01:55 AM

THE NOTICE VS BNM IS GENNEVA's PSYCHOLOGICAL WARFARE TACTIC.
DO ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING TO MAKE EVERY INVESTOR BELIEVE THAT BNM IS THE CULPRIT.
THEN EVERY INVESTOR WILL FORGET THAT IN FACT THE GENNEVA MASTERMINDS ARE THE REAL CULPRITS.
WHEN BNM REPORTS ON THE FORENSIC AUDIT OF GV GOLD STOCKS, CASH IN BANK, MONEY RECEIVED AND MONEY PENDING TO BE REPAID, SURELY THERE WILL BE FOUND A VERY BIG BLACK HOLE, THE MONEY AND THE GOLD WILL BE FAR FAR SHORT THAN WHAT IS SHOWN IN THE BOOKS. THIS ALREADY HAPPENED IN GV1 WHEN RAIDED IN 2009 wWITH THE CASH FOUND TO BE SHORT BY RM47,000,000.

THE SITUATION LOOKS VERY VERY BAD FOR THE GV INVESTORS. SHOULD HAVE HEEDED ALL THE WARNINGS ABOUT THE PONZI NATURE OF THIS SCHEME.

You do not know that after GENNEVA Version 1 was raided, it was found that the bank accounts were short of RM47,000,000?? The scam operators stole the money already! You think GENNEVA Ver 2 is not doing the same thing?

Amazing naivette!!!

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Added on October 7, 2012, 11:25 amToday's article in the NST, Sun 7-10-12. There have been hundreds of complaints VS GENNEVA, contrary to what the GENNEVA supporters are screaming about.

"Email    Print 07 October 2012 | last updated at 01:18AM
Crackdown on gold trading firms to continue



By ATIQA HAZELLAH AND ELIZABETH ZACHARIAH | news@nst.com.my 0 comments






MORE raids can be expected over the next few weeks as Bank Negara Malaysia continues its crackdown on illegal gold traders.

A gold trader breaking down in tears after the raid on Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd on Monday.
1 / 1
KUALA LUMPUR: This comes in the wake of raids on four gold trading companies -- Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd, Pageantry Gold Bhd, Caesar Gold Sdn Bhd and Worldwide Far East Bhd in Bandar Baru Sri Petaling -- that were raided in the past week for several offences.
A Bank Negara officer said it was looking into other companies that offered similar services and action would be taken if irregularities were found in the companies' dealings.
The officer, who declined to be named, said most of the companies offered get-rich-quick schemes, also known as Ponzi schemes.
"The investment money collected is used to pay out 'high returns' to other investors. Such schemes are illegal and fraudulent," he told the New Sunday Times yesterday.
On Monday, Bank Negara, together with police, the Domestic Trade, Cooperatives and Consumerism Ministry and the Companies Commission of Malaysia, carted away boxes of documents and gold bars from Genneva Malaysia's headquarters in Kuchai Lama, near here.
Five days later on Friday, simultaneous raids were conducted on the other three companies, where similar items were seized.
The companies were listed under Bank Negara's financial consumer alert list of known companies and websites that were not authorised or approved under relevant laws and regulations.
The raids came after months of extensive surveillance and intelligence gathering.
The trading companies were suspected of illegal deposit-taking, money-laundering, tax evasion and avoidance, false description, including misrepresentation and appointment of agents without licence.
The Bank Negara officer revealed that in Friday's raid, officers were told that a director of one of the companies had fled with money from clients and some gold.
"We have received hundreds of complaints from people who said they were cheated and lost their investments in these companies.
"They claimed that the companies which they had bought gold from were closed when they went to collect it."
He said those who had fallen victim to these companies were afraid to lodge police reports as they feared they would not get back the money they had invested.
"If the offer is too good to be true, then chances are it is a scam," he said as an advice to the public.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. "


This post has been edited by scorpio55: Oct 7 2012, 11:25 AM

The following article is by Calvin Yeo, published on his blog. It is a much more balanced take on the GENNEVA debacle, compared to all the rantings and ravings by the GENNEVA supporters report in the Star and the NST.

"Genneva Gold Trading Firm Gets Raided in both Singapore and Malaysia

10.02.2012 · Posted in Malaysia, Personal Development, Singapore
As a follow up to the law suit against Genneva Gold Trading Firm, the firm finally gets raided by the authorities. In a rare show of joint action, both Bank Negara, Malaysian police and Singapore Commercial Affairs Department raided Genneva offices in both Singapore and Malaysia. I wonder if they actually coordinated this together, but it will be good if they work together to quickly to investigate.

Apparently, the Malaysian newspaper reported that several people gathered outside the firm office to protest against the raid. They claimed that this firm has helped the livelihood of thousands of people, which is questionable. If anybody benefited it was probably the redirecting of the money of investors to the agents who made fat commissions  out of selling gold to unsuspecting investors under the scheme. Of course they would protest as they made tons of money from the scheme, but how about the even larger number of people who lost their life savings in this scheme?

According to Business Times, the management discovered “some financial improprieties” which led to the delay of payment of commissions and discounts. Apparently the company directors filed police reports as well. All of this looks like a show just to mislead investigators and buy time while hoping that gold prices would be lifted again by QE3. Unfortunately for them, gold prices have yet to rally to previous high and money has probably run out for them.

Apparently 3 of the directors are already being sued by Bank Negara for alleged illegal deposit taking and alleged offences under anti-money laundering laws, one just wonders how they can fly under the radar for so long in Singapore.




The even more ridiculous part is that the directors previously operated under Genneva Sdn Bhd, and because it is under investigation and frozen by Bank Negara, guess what? They set up another company called Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd and continued running the same business. It sounded like they are already making the same transition in Singapore by asking current clients to move their “gold assets” from Genneva Pte Ltd to another company called Genneva World Pte Ltd. So there again, running through legal loopholes, the regulators better do something about it this time or they just open up company after company.

Whatever the outcome is, it will be an interesting case. It is also alarming to note that there are now even more copycat schemes which are operating openly in Singapore and Malaysia. Be smart and recognize the warning signs."

Hey you idiot Royce CHUAH,
Why are you still appearing on Page 91?
Don't you know GENNEVA has collapsed?

How can they be like Poh Kong, Habib etc. when their Paid Up Capital is only RM50,000???
Is RM50,000 enough to decOrate the offices?

There were a million warnings about GENNEVA'S imminent collapse in Martin Lee GENNEVA Gold blog. Those who are now caught with their pants down have only themselves to blame. For example see this June 2012 post in Martin Lee:



p c wong
17/06/2012 at 16:16 (UTC 8)
COLLAPSE OF THE HOUSE OF GENNEVA

Many gold investment companies of GENNEVA’S ilk have collapsed, declared insolvency, been raided by Bank Negara or absconded. These include BESTINO, The Gold Label, Genneva 1, BAO Hing Trading (Sg), Tignet (?), etc.
Hundreds of millions of RINGGIT have been stolen.
1). GENNEVA has only paid up capital of RM50,000.
2). The masterminds are being charged for criminal offences for operating GENNEVA1, while Genneva 1 has been closed down by Bank Negara.
3). The calculations show that after Genneva used part of investors’ money to buy the gold, they have to achieve ROI’s of 168% to 228% pa on the remaining net sums of money in their account. Even the Troll agreed that these figures are not wrong. These ROI’s are IMPOSSIBLE TO ACHIEVE ON A ROUTINE BASIS, but are necessary JUST TO BREAKEVEN AND PAY THE HIBAH AND COMMISSIONS.
4). Genneva masterminds control GOLDBEAM which in turn controls the Genneva buying and selling prices.
5). Payment of hibah, and the obligation to buy back gold, have very clearly been confirmed IN THE CONTRACT, IN THE NEWS ADVERTISEMENT and INVESTORS SIGNED ACKNOWLEDGEMENT FORM to be discretionary, that is, NOT GUARANTEED.

ARE NOT PEOPLE WHO STILL GO TO THE HOUSE OF GENNEVA TO PASS THEM THE MONEY THE BIGGEST FOOLS IN TOWNS?

---

Added on October 9, 2012, 8:42 amAnother example of a collapse prediction in JUL 2012 in Martin Lee blo.


p c wong
22/07/2012 at 11:31 (UTC 8) Link to this comment
Reply
THE GENNEVA GOLD SCAM (CHAPT 4)
================================
THE THEORY OF CERTAINTY OF COLLAPSE
====================================

When asked why Genneva will collapse, p c wong said:
(see post of May 9, 2012 at 10:56 am)

1. The Theory of the Certainty of Collapse of Ponzi Pyramids
2. The Theory of the Impossibility of Exponential Growth of Sucker Population.
3. The Theory of the Tenacity of Dubious Character Antecedents
(or The Principle that the Leopard Never Changes its Spots)
4. The Theory of the Continuous Marginal Balance Sheet Deficit Progression with
Each New Sale
5. The Theory of the Impossibility of the Existence of a Perpetual Money Tree
6. The Theory of the Great Confluence and Alignment of all the Stars in the
Month of May.
.
AT THIS JUNCTURE AN ELABORATION OF EACH OF THESE THEORIES IS APT.

# THEORY 1 : THE CERTAINTY OF COLLAPSE OF PONZI PYRAMIDS

Since the first Ponzi scheme was pioneered by Mr Charles Ponzi of USA many many years ago, each and every Ponzi scheme has ended in collapse and unmitigated disaster for the hapless investors. Please read about the long history of the many many Ponzi schemes that had been perpetrated all over the world, the advanced countries not excepted. Some governments even came to the verge of collapse when a huge proportion of the population became involved and blamed the government when the Ponzi collapsed (eg Albania in Europe in recent years). Read more about this phenomenon by googling Wikipedia > Ponzis etc. The trouble is that human societies never learn from history, always trapped into repeating it again and agian.

# THEORY 2 : THE IMPOSSIBILITY OF EXPONENTIAL GROWTH OF SUCKER
POPULATION

Ponzi Pyramid schemes depend on a constantly growing number of victims in order to sustain the growth of the pyramid. Suppose a new victim needs to bring in 3 new victims in order to profit from participation. 2nd level will be 3 victims. 3rd level will be 9 victims. 4th level will be 27 victims…… nth level will be 3^(n-1) victims ( the symbol ^ denotes to the power of or the exponent of). The total no. of victims at the nth level is given by the well known mathematical formulation

S(n) = a(r^(n+1)-1)/(r-1) [sum to n terms of a geometric series]

where S(n) = Sum to n terms
a = initial term = 1 victim
r = common ratio = 3 (ratio of increase)
n = number of levels involved

The formula shows that at the 13th level the total number of victims has exceeded one million. IS IT POSSIBLE TO ROPE IN ONE MILLION SUCKER VICTIMS TO SUSTAIN THE PYRAMID FOR JUST UP TO 13 LEVELS??

THEORY 3 : THE TENACITY OF DUBIOUS CHARACTER ANTECEDENTS
(or The Principle that the Leopard Never Changes its Spots)

Please see Almost Scammed’s several enumeration of the various prosecutions going on against Ng Poh Weng, Marcus Yee, Chin Wai Leong, Liew x x etc. These persons are the progenitors of Genneva 1. All of them are facing charges in court which carries very heavy penalties (RM10 million fine and 5 years’ jail). When Genneva 1 was raided and closed down some RM47 million shown in the books had gone missing. These same people are the masterminds of Genneva2. Is it easy for the leopard to change its spots? Why should anyone believe that all these people have now realised the error of their ways, turned over a new leaf, and now have the interest, welfare and financial well being of the GM2 investors at heart?? They will continue to steal the money!!!!

THEORY 4 : CONTINUOUS MARGINAL BALANCE SHEET DEFICIT
PROGRESSION WITH EACH NEW SALE

Investor puts in 100 units. 80 units used to buy and deliver the gold. 3 units + 0.5 unit + 0.3 unit = 3.8 units pm = 45.6 units per annum used to pay hibah and up and downline commissions. BUT GM2 ONLY HAD 20 UNITS LEFT FROM THE INVESTMENT AFTER BUYING THE GOLD. Not enuf to pay out the 45.6 units required for one year. EVERY SALE ENDS UP IN A DEFICIT TO THE BALANCE SHEET. Please ask your accountant whether this is true. The only way for GM2 to pay out hibah etc etc is to rope in new victims, using new money to pay off old victims. tHIS IS THE CLASSIC MODUS OPERANDI OF A PONZI PYRAMID!!! So the cash pile will only grow when more and more new victims sign up!!!
HOW ON EARTH CAN THIS PROCESS BE SUSTAINABLE??? THE INESCAPABLE CONCLUSION IS THAT THE OPERATORS WILL SCOOP UP ALL
THE MONEY AND THE GOLD WHEREVER AVAILABLE AND RUN!!!

THEORY 5 : THE IMPOSSIBILITY OF THE EXISTENCE OF A PERPETUAL
MONEY TREE

It is basic science that you never get something from nothing. Over centuries, scientists of all stripes have invested their time and money to invent a Perpetual Motion Machine, i.e. a machine that can provide you with energy endlessly without any input from you. Of course they have failed miserably, because any such machine would offend against the most basic fundamental law of the universe, which is the Universal Law of Conservation Of Energy. If GM2 model works, then the genius generals of Genneva have invented the financial equivalent of the Perpetual Motion Machine, i.e. The Perpetual Magic Money Tree. Nobel laureate, economist Milton Friedman famously said “There is no such thing as a free lunch!”. Are you prepared to bet your money on the Genneva generals’ successful discovery of the Perpetual Magic Money Tree from which you can pluck money endlessly???

THEORY 6 : THE GREAT CONFLUENCE AND ALIGNMENT OF THE STARS IN
THE MONTH OF MAY

There were some fantastic promotions offered by Genneva with the several promotions all maturing in May 12. May 12 was then payback time. For all the reasons aforesaid, it was predicted that May 12 would be the time for the coup de grace to be delivered to the victims, i.e. the generals will pack up and run with all the money and the gold.. Well the May 12 prediction has been off the mark, but maybe by not much. The Genneva generals’ ingenuity and resourcefulness have been underestimated. However, even as we read this now, maybe the Tower of Genneva is on the verge of or in the process of collapsing??? The tell tales: (1) more and more stories of inordinate delay in paying commissions and in delivering the gold; (2) introducing new forms whereby investors are to leave their bananas and their chickens to be guarded by the Genneva monkeys and musangs; (3) new style of “Promissory NOtes” (i. e IOU’s) in exchange for your money; (4) the new SKR Safe Keeping Receipt scheme whereby you buy the gold BUT leave it with Genneva so that they will pay you even more hibah!!! (5) designation Of GENNEVA MALAYSIA SDN BHD by Bank Negara (in Jul 12) as “unauthorised entity” in “gold trading” – a prelude to a raid???

#### IS THERE ANY WAY FOR GENNEVA TO GO EXCEPT DOWN, DOWN, DOWN ?????


Anonymous me
23/07/2012 at 15:14 (UTC 8)
Reply
Dear p c wong

“the May 12 prediction has been off the mark, but maybe by not much”

Any further predictions? Your earlier ones were wrong.

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Added on October 9, 2012, 8:58 amYou should all 4 chapters of PCWong's take on the GREAT GENNEVA GOLD SCAM posted in Uncle Martin Lee GENNEVA Gold Blog.

This post has been edited by scorpio55: Oct 9 2012, 08:58 AM

Read all 4 chapters of THE GREAT GENNEVA GOLD SCAM at Martin Lee blog:

Link: http://www.martinlee.sg/genneva-gold/

See Pgs 13 onwards to Pg 17.

Don't you have to cost in the consultant's commission at 0.5% and upline commission at 0.3%?
Total payout is 2.8%, i.e. 2.8x12= 33.6% p.a. If investment is 100 with markup 25%, actual cost of gold is 100/125 x 100= 80. Net cash avlble for investment is 20.

Required ROI to cover payout = 33.6/20 x 100 = 168% !

168 = YAT LUK FATT (Cantonese meaning "ALL WILL PROSPER" !!!

Much has been written about the GREAT GENNEVA GOLD SCAM OF 2012.
There were a million warnings about the unsustainability of the business model. And there were also a million predictions of GENNEVA'S imminent collapse, right up to days before the Oct 1st BNM raid.

If GENNEVA will inevitably collapse why do the GENNEVA masterminds embark on such a scheme? General SUN TZU famously said in "The Art of War" more than 2000 years ago, "Know Yourself, Know Your Enemy; 100 Battles, 100 Victories".

The workings of the GENNEVA master minds were posited in the Martin Lee blog, reproduced below:

p c wong
09/09/2012 at 18:48 (UTC 8) Link to this comment
Reply
GENNEVA’S GAME PLAN
#######################

Obviously, the Genneva masterminds (“GMs”) including the Genneva Colonel aka the TROLL, are not stupid people. So this is an exercise to delve into the workings of their minds to interpret how they rationalize their business model approach and strategy.

# Genneva paid up is RM50,000. The plan is to use Other People’s Money (“OPM”) to make a profit, to get rich quick.

# It is a fact of life that a sucker is born every second, so there are no shortage of suckers to lead up the garden path, to take for a ride, to part them from their money. KLANG Valley has population of 5 million approx. If 10 % of these are working adults with some money savings, there are 500,000 potential victims. But not all are gullible or greedy people. Say out of these 500k ppl, one in 25 are gullible and greedy, so the no. of potential victims is 20,000. See the size of the market for Genneva?

# The GMs, and the general public, are aware of the phenomenal rise in gold price in recent years. The time seems right to build up the hype concerning the superlative advantages of gold commodity investment.

# The GMs, genuinely or otherwise, reach the conclusion that gold will continue it’s price surge upwards, inexorably. To profit massively, massive bets must be made with huge positions taken. To do this, huge leverage is needed and what better way than to do this with OPM.

# For Dragon Year promo the Genneva offer was that you buy their gold at GOLDBEAM price (25% over spot price), you receive hibah or dividend 3% pm for 3 months (total 9%), and they. guarantee buy back at original price at end of term. Reportedly RM800m worth of gold was sold.

# The GMs’ expectation, prediction and gamble was that gold would have gone up by more than 25% over the contract term. If this had indeed happened the investors needed not to sell back the gold. Then GMs would have collected a cool RM800m x (20% markup- 9% hibah) = RM88m profit.

# Can you imagine RM88m profit from a RM50,000 investment over 3 months? This is the Genneva gamble !! Do you know that the GMs would have pulled off this stunt if indeed the price of gold had shot through the roof?

# What if the price of gold does not shoot through the roof? The Genneva options:

(1) the Park In scheme whereby you leave the gold with them and they pay you more hibah. REALITY: Your gold is used to sell to other buyers.
(2) Renting gold to Genneva for profit. REALITY: Sell your gold to others, your money investment not backed by gold.
(3) Safe Keeping Receipt. REALITY: Same as above.
(4) Secretly arranging Bank Negara to raid the Company, after hiding away all the money and the gold, then blame the GOVT for spoiling the party.
(5) Declare bankruptcy/insolvency and walk away, of course after hiding all the money and the gold.

# Options 1 – 3 are to buy time in the hope that the gold price will suddenly shoot through the roof.

CONCLUSIONS
##############

# Genneva is a huge money scam, a PONZI.

# The hibah are paid out of investors’ own money.

# Genneva is making a gigantic gamble on the continued spectacular rise in gold price, using OPM.

# Last year the gold price went up to USD1,900/oz; that was the time Genneva should have taken profits, close down the operations. But they got greedy and got caught in their own belief that gold price will shoot up to USD5,000 or 10,000 as predicted by some oracles eg Peter Schiff etc (featured in Genneva Facebook).

# The current sideways movement of gold price is causing intolerable cash flow problems to Genneva because hibah and commission payments are overly lucrative. See what is happening in Genneva S’pore – read hardwarezone Sg website.

GENNEVA IS TAKING A MASSIVE GAMBLE WITH THE INVESTORS’ MONEY. IN THIS GAME, IT IS HEADS GENNEVA WINS, TAILS INVESTORS LOSE. DO NOT GET INVOLVED IN THIS MONEY SCAM, OR GET OUT WHILE YOU STILL CAN!!

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

It can also be now seen that their fall back plan if the GAME PLAN fails is:

1. invoke "discretionary" clause, e.g. in Sg(?),
2. abandon and run with the gold and money; or
3. orchestrate a raid by Bank Negara and then urge all investors to focus their rage against BNM.

Some people think EPF and ASB are also PONZI schemes albeit ones operated by GOVT. Why?

EPF has been used by GOVT to lend money to all kinds of pte co's which are politically linked. Much of the money may not be recoverable. Thus if we have a look at EPF balance sheet, do you think total assets is less than total liabilities? EPF is also a big trader and investor in the local stock market. Do stock market investors win all the time?

As EPF is quite likely at this time underfunded, i.e the total assets not enough to pay back all the creditors, GOVT has to look for ways to recapitalize it. The latest huge recapitalization is by transferring the RRI land in Sg Buloh at a cheap price to EPF, so that a few billion can be replenish to EPF coffers.!!!!

IS THIS NOT THE BIGGEST PONZI OF ALL??

Hey Kent, You are unfair to BNM.
They did advertise full page advert warning, daily, alternately in Star and NST, over 7 to 9 days.
You did not read the papers?