Sg Genneva accounts has proven that liabilities are more than assets. We have a similar business model. What more convincing does the investors want? The music has stopped and its cash strapped.

With such a business model, where accounts are not prepared for one year, you should run already!

out in SG news? link pls

Sorry, no link. Read it in the papers. Too many stories in both print and online; can't remember.

Looking at FB it may soon become political

This post has been edited by Eugene91: Oct 5 2012, 09:35 PM

SSM’s Practice Note 1/2008
COMPANIES ACT 1965: SSM’S PRACTICE NOTE NO 1/2008
RE: REQUIREMENTS RELATING TO THE LODGEMENT OF ANNUAL RETURN OF COMPANIES
1. This Practice Note serves to inform the requirements under section 165 of the Companies Act 1965 (CA 1965) relating to the lodgement of annual returns with the Registrar of Companies.
Lodgement of Annual Returns
2. Section 165 of the CA 1965 requires all companies to lodge annual return within one (1) month after the annual general meeting (AGM). The annual return of a company shall be in accordance with the Eighth Schedule to the CA 1965 and be accompanied by such copies of documents as are required or such certificates or other particulars as prescribed in Part II of that Schedule.
3. Part II of the Eighth Schedule requires the following attachment:
(i) a copy of the last audited accounts comprising the balance sheet and profits and loss accounts (including 1
SSM’s Practice Note 1/2008
every document required to be attached thereto); and
(ii) a copy of the auditor’s report.
4. Part II of the Eight Schedule also stated that in the case of an exempt private company that is solvent, the attachment of the audited accounts may be substituted by a certificate signed by a director, a company secretary and auditor stating that:
(a) the company is an exempt private company;
(b) an audited accounts in compliance with the provisions of the CA 1965 has been tabled in the company’s AGM; and
© the company is able to meet it liabilities as and when they fall due as at the date of the audited profit and loss account.
5. The audited accounts must be certified by a director or a manager or a company secretary to be a true copy of such documents. The audited accounts or the certificate relating to exempt private company, as the case may be, must either be in ‘Bahasa Malaysia’ or English and if they are in any other languages, the translation in ‘Bahasa Malaysia’ or English must be provided.
6. Therefore, any lodgement of annual returns without the inclusion of an audited accounts or a duly signed certificate relating to exempt private company constitute an incomplete submission and will not be accepted by the Registrar.
2
SSM’s Practice Note 1/2008
7. The practice adopted by some companies which lodge annual returns without attaching the audited accounts is not in accordance with the requirements of the CA 1965 as well as the principles of good corporate governance. The statement/explanation that such documents is not ready and to be laid at an adjourned AGM does not justify the lodgement of annual return without the audited accounts.
8. As the laying of the audited accounts is one of the ordinary businesses of an AGM, the AGM should only be called when the audited accounts are ready and sent to all members at least 14 days before the meeting or less if agreed to by all members as required under section 170 of the CA 1965. Therefore, the question of adjourning an AGM to a later date to lay the audited accounts only when they are ready does not arise.
Effective Date
9. Henceforth, annual returns with respect to AGMs held in the calendar year 2008 and thereafter would only be accepted for lodgement by the Registrar if they are accompanied with a copy of the relevant audited accounts or, where applicable, a duly signed certificate relating to exempt private company.
10. This Practice Note serves to reiterate SSM’s stance for annual returns to be lodged together with audited accounts.
REGISTRAR OF COMPANIES
COMPANIES COMMISSION OF MALAYSIA
13 June 2008
3

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Added on October 5, 2012, 9:47 pmSSM's Practice Note No. 1/2008 clearly states that Annual Returns together Audited Accounts has to be lodged even for EXEMPT PRIVATE COMPANIES with Registrar of Companies.

This post has been edited by Singa51: Oct 5 2012, 09:47 PM

3 more scam companies!
Well, pro Genneva got their gang for rally...
And the shit just hit the fan!

This post has been edited by anudora: Oct 5 2012, 09:49 PM

Note 4 part ll. exempt private companies can file certificate in lieu.

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Added on October 5, 2012, 10:02 pmBNM hit the jackpot!

This post has been edited by cckkpr: Oct 5 2012, 10:02 PM

Even if it is a exempt private company, the account still needed to be audited as the certificate need to be signed by an approved auditor.
That is what I understand from the above article.

BTW in Note 9. Henceforth, annual returns with respect to AGMs held in the calendar year 2008 and thereafter would only be accepted for lodgement by the Registrar if they are accompanied with a copy of the relevant audited accounts or, where applicable, a duly signed certificate relating to exempt private company.

My understanding is that the Annual Returns still had to be lodged together with either audited accounts or certificate. Or am I missing something.........?

This post has been edited by anudora: Oct 5 2012, 10:39 PM

Yes, audited accounts need to be prepared. If non-exempt private company, have to lodged together with annual return

But Genneva is exempt private company, so they can just submit annual return + certificate in lieu. No need to file the audited accounts.

Therefore under the law, they can choose to hide their financial information. Nobody knows the financial numbers other than the shareholders and directors.

Of course, they need to submit tax returns with audited accounts to the IRD as well. But they can choose not to submit so they can continue to hide their secrets.

Hence, nobody can tell 100% whether the company is a ponzi or not, unless the authority raid the company and look at the accounts and see if there is any legitimate business to support payment of hibah.

If the account are audited and signed by auditor, isn't that mean the company is able to meet it liabilities as and when they fall due as at the date of the audited profit and loss account. as stated in Note 4 ©?

I am getting

This post has been edited by anudora: Oct 5 2012, 10:49 PM

Some one tried to get me to join this scheme some like 1.5 years back, 12-36% interest, no risk (some how I feel this is the biggest BS that convinced me NOT to join).

Was it not posted some pages ago that the GENNEVA promise is actually that they can achieve investment ROI's of 168 to 228% pa? This is because for every 100 units invested, 80 units to buy gold, left with 20 units net cash on which to derive income.

THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM !!!

The auditors' job is to give an opinion on the company account. Whether it can meet liability or not, they will still sign the report. Their duty is to give an opinion on the company's financials to the shareholders

If the company has no going concern issue, then a normal unqualified report is issued. If the company cannot meet its liability, ie company is insolvent, then auditor will qualify the report. They will still sign the report, but qualify the report with additional paragraphs highlighting the issue to the shareholders

are you accountant?

Those that still thinks that BNM had acted unfairly, it seemed that there were clear warning in their press statement released last month; the 2nd last paragraph cannot be more clearer.

(Did BNM waited for the right time, when spot gold is at record high?)
correction: not really record high, but at the highest range level this year & maintaining the level for the past 2 weeks...

-----------------------
http://www.bnm.gov.my/index.php?ch=en_pres...ac=2646&lang=en

Update on Financial Consumer Alert List

Bank Negara Malaysia would like to refer to the recent media reports relating to the Financial Consumer Alert List published by the Bank. The introduction of the List is to provide members of the public a quick reference and guide in making decisions in relation to various financial services offered by non-licensees.

The Financial Consumer Alert List essentially refers to the list of unregulated person or companies who have been mistaken as being licensed or permitted by regulators including Securities Commission Malaysia, Ministry of Domestic Trade, Co-Operatives and Consumerism, Companies Commission Malaysia and Cooperative Commission of Malaysia on their business activities.

The List comprises of companies or individuals not licensed by the regulators and which have received numerous inquiries from members of the public. The List is not exhaustive and will be updated regularly for public's reference. For further information, members of the public can contact BNMTELELINK at 1-300-88-5465. The Financial Consumer Alert List is available on Bank Negara Malaysia's website (www.bnm.gov.my/consumeralert).

Bank Negara Malaysia would also like to advise members of the public that they are free to undertake outright buying and selling of gold. However, members of the public should be cautious of various illegal deposit-taking and investment schemes especially in precious metals such as gold that entice them with high returns. These schemes promise high returns over a short period of time with the option to buy back the gold. These schemes could be "get rich quick schemes" or termed as "Ponzi schemes" where the investment money collected are used to pay out as "high returns" to other investors. Such schemes are illegal and fraudulent and members of the public may lose all their money.

Members of the public are advised to check with the relevant authority when dealing with companies or individuals offering seemingly attractive business opportunities or financial services and not licensed by the relevant authority.

Bank Negara Malaysia
05 September 2012

This post has been edited by j.passing.by: Oct 5 2012, 11:26 PM

No I am not an accountant. But for the past 20+ years, I have signed off my companies' audited accounts each year. So, I learnt all these from my accountant, argued with the auditors on why they want to qualify my report etc. So I am very familiar with what the auditors want

Do you need to be an accountant to know the following?

1. For every sale of 100 units money, use 80 units (purportedly) to buy real 999 gold (purportedly), left with 20 units net cash for investment. (If fake gold, investor is sunk !!)
2. Pay hibah + commission + uplink = 2.8 to 3.8% pm ON 100 UNITS, thus MUST GET RETURNS OF 168 to 228% pa on 20 UNITS. ( See the recent psot above YAT LUK FATT, YEE YEE FAT or All Prosper, Easy Prosper).
3. At lower end payout of 2.8% on 100 units, 2.8 x 12 = 33.6 units pa is paid out. THIS IS ALREADY MORE THAN THE NET CASH HOLDING OF ONLY 20 UNITS !!! Thus with every sale, the net cash holding cannot even sustain 1 year's payouts !!
4. GENNEVA needs to grow the new investor numbers exponentially to get new funds to pay off old investors =='the classic definition of a PONZI !!! A PONZI WILL SOONER THAN LATER FAIL AND COLLAPSE.

MORAL: Every new sale of gold is balance sheet depletive while at the same time it is cash flow accretive. IN SIMPLE LANGUAGE EVERY SALE WILL RESULT IN MORE CASH IN GENNEVA COFFERS BUT IT SIMULTANEOUSLY INCREASES THE LIABILITIES OVER THE ASSETS. When new buyers become scarce, THE PONZI COLLAPSES WITH A HUGE EXCESS OF LIABILITIES OVER ASSETS !!! BUT THERE IS QUITE A LOT OF CASH, OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY, IN BANK, AND GENNEVA OPERATORS WILL RUN AWAY WITH THIS MONEY, + PLUS ALL THE GOLD IN THE PARK IN OR SKR SCHEME BELONGING TO OTHERS.

It is mind boggling to read the postings of all the GENNEVA supporters cursing the BNM and GOVT for freezing a "perfectly legit co."!! All this blindness to the plain facts!!

Over and above the unsustainability of the business model, there is a big scope for other tricks like:
a. issuing self branded fools' or fake gold (tungsten gold)
b. delaying delivery of gold after full payment; delaying payment after sell back gold has been delivered.
c. make investors play musical chair game by Park In Scheme or SAFE keeping Receipt scheme or by renting gold back to recycle, i.e. total gold purchased by GENNEVA is far less than actually paid up for.
d. Hide the treasure trove and secretly arrange for a raid, then ask every one to curse BNM and GOVT.

Bank Negara has to stop this scam before it becomes so big that it's ensuing collapse will be exceedingly
CATASTROPHIC !!

This post has been edited by scorpio55: Oct 5 2012, 11:40 PM

Here is a FAQ from BNM website: http://www.bnm.gov.my/index.php?ch=en_faqs&lang=en#00_m01

Is trading of foreign currency through the internet allowed?

No. Residents are not allowed to trade currency through internet.
Residents are only allowed to buy or sell currencies in Malaysia with authorised dealers and those entities permitted by Bank Negara. Please refer to website at http://www.bnm.gov.my under "Foreign Exchange Administration" for further details.

More from BNM website:

http://www.bnm.gov.my/microsites/fraudalert/0301_status.htm

Status of Cases Investigated
By Companies

The Gold Label Sdn Bhd
Dencomm Sales & Services Sdn Bhd
Semangat Teknologi Gagah Sdn. Bhd. (formerly known as STG Resources Sdn. Bhd.)
Asia Ceramic Marketing Sdn Bhd
Etika Emas Estet Sdn Bhd
Genneva Sdn Bhd
Bestino Group Berhad
AK United Sdn Bhd
Walton International Property Group (M) Sdn Bhd
Gemilang Mirza Sdn. Bhd
Buluhmas Enterprise Sdn. Bhd
Noradz Travel & Services Sdn. Bhd
Jazmeen (M) Sdn. Bhd
Eastana Farm Industries Sdn. Bhd
Reed Corporation Sdn Bhd
Sigma Platinum Sdn Bhd
Wisdom Spectrum Sdn Bhd
Maxficient Consultancy Sdn Bhd
Practical Support Sdn Bhd
Pan Phoenix Dina Sdn. Bhd
Sunshine Empire Sdn Bhd
Mercantile Point Sdn Bhd
Hitech Objective Enterprise (HTO)
Jai Network Systems Sdn. Bhd.
AB Fund
G-Gold Gallery Sdn Bhd
PIPS (New Mark Business Centre Sdn Bhd / Picpay Dot Com Sdn Bhd)


(interesting; it has the dates of all the court proceedings in each case; further case details in the site...)

obviously not. just asking because he's using some accounting terms.....