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> If a child goes wrong, its the Parents's fault, Opening for prophetjul

athlee
post Mar 13 2012, 11:29 AM


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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 13 2012, 11:09 AM)
Aiyaya.

If God wanted to create robots, He would have done.
But He didnt, He created humans with feelings and conscience.
Freewill.

This morning on liteFM...there was an interestin dicussion

If a child goes wrong, its the PARENT's fault.          Discuss.
*
Did the parents spend time with the child, provide education, teaching him to respect other people? Did they love him and made time for him? If they did, then no it isn't the parents fault.

But if the parents just provided for the child without caring or even if they love the child but don't spend time with the child to show him love and provide education, then how can you blame a child who knows nothing. If the parents are nonexistent in his life (latchkey kids) then the only education he gets are from those around him. The messages will be mixed, there will be nothing concrete, how is he to know what is right, what is not?

Chinese saying, 养不教,父之过;教不严,师之惰
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3dassets
post Mar 13 2012, 11:51 AM


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QUOTE(athlee @ Mar 13 2012, 11:29 AM)
Did the parents spend time with the child, provide education, teaching him to respect other people? Did they love him and made time for him? If they did, then no it isn't the parents fault.

But if the parents just provided for the child without caring or even if they love the child but don't spend time with the child to show him love and provide education, then how can you blame a child who knows nothing. If the parents are nonexistent in his life (latchkey kids) then the only education he gets are from those around him. The messages will be mixed, there will be nothing concrete, how is he to know what is right, what is not?

Chinese saying, 养不教,父之过;教不严,师之惰
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I think it was the police who first suggest to charge the parents if the child committed crime below 18, as if all human are robots before the age, 30 year old still think talk like a teenage were reported by foreign researcher which I tends to agree, got plenty of them in this forum.
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megaman03
post Mar 13 2012, 12:09 PM


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I could go on and on about how this god character doesn't actually give any free will and such but that's best left in the AAR thread. Moving on.

I think it's the responsibility of the parents to bring up their children. They must provide the basic necessities like food, education and a roof over their heads. However, I think at a certain age, you must be willing to talk to your children on a more equal level as they mature and to be more objective with them. You can't imagine that they're going to be children forever. They're going to grow up after all and I think parents must also respect the privacy of their children.
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feekle
post Mar 13 2012, 12:22 PM


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I would agree that if a child goes wrong, its the parent's fault. Why? its because they are the one who give birth, (should) raised & teach them about life. simple as that.
some may argue that some parents is never there because he/she is busy to find $$ (working outstation, offshore, oversea etc.)

This post has been edited by feekle: Mar 13 2012, 12:23 PM
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Piros
post Mar 13 2012, 12:29 PM


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QUOTE(feekle @ Mar 13 2012, 12:22 PM)
I would agree that if a child goes wrong, its the parent's fault. Why? its because they are the one who give birth, (should) raised & teach them about life. simple as that.
some may argue that some parents is never there because he/she is busy to find $$ (working outstation, offshore, oversea etc.)
*
I agree with you to a certain extend. But sometimes though the parents try their best, children still can/will go wrong. The influence of others (Friends, Movies, etc) have on that child could easily over right parents guidance & rebuke.

There's always a but, we can't really generalize saying this is where the error lies cause each situation has it's own unique problem. My opinion.
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3dassets
post Mar 13 2012, 12:31 PM


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QUOTE(feekle @ Mar 13 2012, 12:22 PM)
I would agree that if a child goes wrong, its the parent's fault. Why? its because they are the one who give birth, (should) raised & teach them about life. simple as that.
some may argue that some parents is never there because he/she is busy to find $$ (working outstation, offshore, oversea etc.)
*
What if the parents are idiots themselves? Whether they are rich or poor, still raise low moral no ethic children. Obviously today's problem started in the past and does the media inculcate these values? No, they concentrate on propaganda, sentiment, entertainment, drama that never provoke knowledge based society. Giving false hope to low income group saying the country is ever growing and need foreign cheap worker that suppress salary.

This post has been edited by 3dassets: Mar 13 2012, 12:34 PM
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TSOM
post Mar 13 2012, 02:21 PM


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then if a child goes right, who's credit is that??


the answer is not necessarily parents!!

and if a parent goes wrong, is it the government's fault??
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MugenK20A
post Mar 13 2012, 02:41 PM


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Definitely is parents responsibilities to educate, guide & raising their children. If parents don't intend to teach the proper way, y wanna giv birth at the 1st place??
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dkhau
post Mar 13 2012, 03:24 PM


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QUOTE(feekle @ Mar 13 2012, 12:22 PM)
I would agree that if a child goes wrong, its the parent's fault. Why? its because they are the one who give birth, (should) raised & teach them about life. simple as that.
some may argue that some parents is never there because he/she is busy to find $$ (working outstation, offshore, oversea etc.)
*
i agree with u but not totally.....community and new era are one of the reason too
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lck*G9
post Mar 13 2012, 03:38 PM


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QUOTE(dkhau @ Mar 13 2012, 03:24 PM)
i agree with u but not totally.....community and new era are one of the reason too
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that depends on how of a kid you are talking about then
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ManutdGiggs
post Mar 13 2012, 08:06 PM


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QUOTE(feekle @ Mar 13 2012, 12:22 PM)
I would agree that if a child goes wrong, its the parent's fault. Why? its because they are the one who give birth, (should) raised & teach them about life. simple as that.
some may argue that some parents is never there because he/she is busy to find $$ (working outstation, offshore, oversea etc.)
*
To me, family is far more important than $$$. I work hard to earn $$$ but stil spend time for family, thou its not much like some 9-5 white collars, but I try my best to join my family for lunch everyday. At least my kid ll not c me onli on Sunday.


Added on March 13, 2012, 8:08 pm
QUOTE(3dassets @ Mar 13 2012, 12:31 PM)
What if the parents are idiots themselves? Whether they are rich or poor, still raise low moral no ethic children. Obviously today's problem started in the past and does the media inculcate these values? No, they concentrate on propaganda, sentiment, entertainment, drama that never provoke knowledge based society. Giving false hope to low income group saying the country is ever growing and need foreign cheap worker that suppress salary.
*
Its definitely parents fault if they r idiots.

This post has been edited by ManutdGiggs: Mar 13 2012, 08:08 PM
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positive energy
post Mar 13 2012, 08:42 PM


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QUOTE(feekle @ Mar 13 2012, 12:22 PM)
I would agree that if a child goes wrong, its the parent's fault. Why? its because they are the one who give birth, (should) raised & teach them about life. simple as that.
some may argue that some parents is never there because he/she is busy to find $$ (working outstation, offshore, oversea etc.)
*
Totally agree, god gave mankind ability to reproduce the next generation, then they should be the one who raised,EDUCATE them until 18 yrs old which are the age of their kids who are able to stand on their own. Parents who complain no time to accompany their children, blaming teacher for not looking after their kids, are not MATURE and IRRESPONSIBLE.
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farizsj
post Mar 14 2012, 12:27 AM


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the art of blame game (adapted from bangau oh bangau)

children oh children, kenapa u go wrong,
macamana aku x go wrong, parents tak didik aku. parents x didik aku.

parents oh parents, kenapa tak didik children,
macamana aku nk didik, time is not enough. time is not enough.

time oh time, kenapa not enough. macamana aku nk enough, kerja too much. kerja too much.

kerja oh kerja kenapa too much, macamana aku x too much, nak cari duit lebih. nak cari duit lebih.

money oh money, kenapa kena cari lebih, macamana tak kena cari lebih, living cost tinggi sgt. living cost tinggi sgt.

living cost oh living cost kenapa tinggi sgt. mcmn aku tak tinggi, harga barang naik.

harga oh harga kenapa engkau naik, mcmana aku tak naik, demand aku tinggi. demand aku tinggi.

demand o demand kenapa engkau tinggi, mcmana aku tak tinggi, people beli jugak aku. people beli jugak aku.

people oh people, kenapa beli jugak, macamana aku tak beli, iklan buat aku teringin. iklan buat aku teringin.

iklan oh iklan, kenapa buat people teringin, mcmana aku tak buat, mmg kerja aku. mmg kerja aku.
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athlee
post Mar 14 2012, 09:35 AM


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QUOTE(positive energy @ Mar 13 2012, 08:42 PM)
Totally agree, god gave mankind ability to reproduce the next generation, then they should be the one who raised,EDUCATE them until 18 yrs old which are the age of their kids who are able to stand on their own. Parents who complain no time to accompany their children, blaming teacher for not looking after their kids, are not MATURE and IRRESPONSIBLE.
*
I like this argument but think it should be expanded further. god create mankind and thus should be the one who raise, educate them until 18 years old. When has god done the above? He gave mankind the ability to reproduce but he did not teach them how to raise and educate. He did not not find time to accompany his own children. All he did was find a few fellas, appoint them as teachers and left them to their own devices. So so irresponsible. He didn't even make sure everyone had a teacher, leaving so many heathers lying around.


Found in the bible, an example of god not being a good parent:
Why did he not educate his two kids on what will happen if they eat the apple instead of just saying, stay away?

Try putting a toy on a shelf and tell your younger kid don't touch and then leave it there indefinitely. Rope in your older kid and get him to tell the younger brother that the toy is fun to play with.
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prophetjul
post Mar 14 2012, 09:48 AM


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QUOTE(athlee @ Mar 14 2012, 09:35 AM)
I like this argument but think it should be expanded further. god create mankind and thus should be the one who raise, educate them until 18 years old. When has god done the above? He gave mankind the ability to reproduce but he did not teach them how to raise and educate. He did not not find time to accompany his own children. All he did was find a few fellas, appoint them as teachers and left them to their own devices. So so irresponsible. He didn't even make sure everyone had a teacher, leaving so many heathers lying around.
Found in the bible, an example of god not being a good parent:
Why did he not educate his two kids on what will happen if they eat the apple instead of just saying, stay away?

Try putting a toy on a shelf and tell your younger kid don't touch and then leave it there indefinitely. Rope in your older kid and get him to tell the younger brother that the toy is fun to play with.
*
Ummmmm...what APPLE?

rolleyes.gif

Next you should read the bible properly before you comment
and look like a .........

QUOTE
15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.  


its not a toy
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athlee
post Mar 14 2012, 09:54 AM


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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 14 2012, 09:48 AM)
Ummmmm...what APPLE?

    rolleyes.gif

Next you should read the bible properly before you comment
and look like a .........
its not a toy
*
An apple is easier to write than tree of blah and blah. Also your verse says took the man, what about the woman? Teach both your kids, not one.

You also did not comment on whether I was wrong on any of the below.

QUOTE
I like this argument but think it should be expanded further. god create mankind and thus should be the one who raise, educate them until 18 years old. When has god done the above? He gave mankind the ability to reproduce but he did not teach them how to raise and educate. He did not not find time to accompany his own children. All he did was find a few fellas, appoint them as teachers and left them to their own devices. So so irresponsible. He didn't even make sure everyone had a teacher, leaving so many heathers lying around.

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prophetjul
post Mar 14 2012, 10:06 AM


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QUOTE(athlee @ Mar 14 2012, 09:54 AM)
An apple is easier to write than tree of blah and blah. Also your verse says took the man, what about the woman? Teach both your kids, not one.

You also did not comment on whether I was wrong on any of the below.
*
Easier to decieve like what you are trying to do?

There was NO WOman yet........at that time ler......go and read before your spew and
make a **** of yerself. nod.gif

Next the man is the head of the household. he was suppose to teach the family, not the woman.

QUOTE
I like this argument but think it should be expanded further. god create mankind and thus should be the one who raise, educate them until 18 years old. When has god done the above? He gave mankind the ability to reproduce but he did not teach them how to raise and educate. He did not not find time to accompany his own children. All he did was find a few fellas, appoint them as teachers and left them to their own devices. So so irresponsible. He didn't even make sure everyone had a teacher, leaving so many heathers lying around.



QUOTE
15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. 18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. 19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. 20 And Adam gave names to all cattle,



Next you will be saying God taught them to DISOBEY........


The whole bible with its 360 thousand plus words are INSTRUCTIONS....left them to their own devices?
You are so so DEceptive.....in presenting Half Truths nod.gif
Much like the serpent

QUOTE
1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

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athlee
post Mar 14 2012, 10:41 AM


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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 14 2012, 10:06 AM)
Easier to decieve like what you are trying to do? 

There was NO WOman yet........at that time ler......go and read before your spew and
make a **** of yerself.  nod.gif

Next the man is the head of the household. he was suppose to teach the family, not the woman.
Next you will be saying God taught them to DISOBEY........ 
The whole bible with its 360 thousand plus words are INSTRUCTIONS....left them to their own devices?
You are so so DEceptive.....in presenting Half Truths  nod.gif
Much like the serpent
*
What is there to deceive? Why should I write 'fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil' when I can just write apple? You mean it makes a big difference whether I wrote that they ate an apple or a FOTTOTKOGAE?

Please take a look at the title of this thread, which coincidentally was from a post made by you asking to discuss.

When woman was made, why was she not also taught by god, who would be her parent. You are depending on the older brother to teach her, where was god as a parent? If you cannot or will not spend time teaching all your children, why make so many in the first place? Was not the serpent also a child of god? Did god teach him not to tempt the humans?

And on the whole bible being instructions, again I repeat:

QUOTE
He did not not find time to accompany his own children. All he did was find a few fellas, appoint them as teachers and left them to their own devices.


and repeat:

QUOTE
He didn't even make sure everyone had a teacher, leaving so many heathers lying around.

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prophetjul
post Mar 14 2012, 10:50 AM


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QUOTE(athlee @ Mar 14 2012, 10:41 AM)
What is there to deceive? Why should I write 'fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil' when I can just write apple? You mean it makes a big difference whether I wrote that they ate an apple or a FOTTOTKOGAE?

Please take a look at the title of this thread, which coincidentally was from a post made by you asking to discuss.

When woman was made, why was she not also taught by god, who would be her parent. You are depending on the older brother to teach her, where was god as a parent? If you cannot or will not spend time teaching all your children, why make so many in the first place? Was not the serpent also a child of god? Did god teach him not to tempt the humans?

And on the whole bible being instructions, again I repeat:
and repeat:
*
Its NOT a appple........means its a lie when you write that. Easy enough?

God was setting the example to Adam, which incidently IS teaching.
ALL the instructions were given to Adam to teach as the HEAD of the human family.
This is the tradition till today.
Its called responsibilty of the fathers.

The serpent was not a child of God.
He REBELLED against God............

Is it your fault your children CHOOSE to disobey you?
DID YOU teach your children to disobey you?

QUOTE
And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.


For I have chosen him, so that he will direct his children and his household after him to keep the way of the LORD by doing what is right and just, so that the LORD will bring about for Abraham what he has promised him."

Only be careful, and watch yourselves closely so that you do not forget the things your eyes have seen or let them slip from your heart as long as you live. Teach them to your children and to their children after them.

Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up.

Teach them to your children, talking about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up.

We will not hide them from their children; we will tell the next generation the praiseworthy deeds of the LORD, his power, and the wonders he has done

Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it.

Fathers, do not embitter your children, or they will become discouraged.

and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.


This post has been edited by prophetjul: Mar 14 2012, 10:55 AM
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soundsyst64
post Mar 14 2012, 10:57 AM


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Reality in malaysia;

when child do wrongdoings, parents blame other person
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athlee
post Mar 14 2012, 11:10 AM


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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 14 2012, 10:50 AM)
Its NOT a appple........means its a lie when you write that.  Easy enough?

God was setting the example to Adam, which incidently IS teaching.
ALL the instructions were given to Adam to teach as the HEAD of the human family.
This is the tradition till today.
Its called responsibilty of the fathers.

The serpent was not a child of God.
He REBELLED against God............

Is it your fault your children CHOOSE to disobey you?
DID YOU teach your children to disobey you?
*
Ok ok, it is a FOTTOTKOGAE that they ate. I lied, it wasn't an apple, it was a FOTTOTKOGAE.

And please dont lie in the same post that you accuse me of lying. god created the serpent, hence it is a child of god. If your child rebelled against you, he is still your child, you might not want him anymore, but the fact is you brought him into this world, you raised him and you taught him. He is your child whether you like it or not. Just like the serpent was a child of god whether you like it or not.

And to bring to your attention what you wrote, Its called responsibilty of the fathers. Adam was not the father of Eve, hence what you said about responsibility of fathers does not apply to him, it applies to god. Or are you saying man are the children of god but woman are not?


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prophetjul
post Mar 14 2012, 11:18 AM


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QUOTE(athlee @ Mar 14 2012, 11:10 AM)
Ok ok, it is a FOTTOTKOGAE that they ate. I lied, it wasn't an apple, it was a FOTTOTKOGAE.

And please dont lie in the same post that you accuse me of lying. god created the serpent, hence it is a child of god. If your child rebelled against you, he is still your child, you might not want him anymore, but the fact is you brought him into this world, you raised him and you taught him. He is your child whether you like it or not. Just like the serpent was a child of god whether you like it or not.

And to bring to your attention what you wrote, Its called responsibilty of the fathers. Adam was not the father of Eve, hence what you said about responsibility of fathers does not apply to him, it applies to god. Or are you saying man are the children of god but woman are not?
*
It wasnt even there and you are STILL lying.

Show me where the bible calls the serpent a child of God.
Then we can decide WHOS the Liar.

i am not refering to whos a child and whos not.
i am asking

s it your fault your children CHOOSE to disobey you?
DID YOU teach your children to disobey you?

The Father is the Head of the family.
His responsibilty to teach includes the wife.

Hence

QUOTE
21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. 22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. 28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. 29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:


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athlee
post Mar 14 2012, 11:32 AM


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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 14 2012, 11:18 AM)
It wasnt even that and you are STILL lying.

Show me where the bible calls the serpent a child of God.
Then we can decide WHOS the Liar.

i am not refering to whos a child and whos not.
i am asking

s it your fault your children CHOOSE to disobey you?
DID YOU teach your children to disobey you?

The Father is the Head of the family.
His responsibilty to teach includes the wife.

Hence
*
I am lying on what? I don't care what the bible says. If god is the creator of the serpent, than it is a child of god. God was the one who brought it into this world, if god was not the father who was? Or is the serpent something that appeared on its on accord, born from thin air?

You are again ignoring the responsibility of god as a parent to the woman and instead pushing it all onto Adam as if he was the father instead of god. Please don't contradict yourself by speaking about the father needing to teach and then excluding the daughter, assuming her husband will teach her instead.

Should I ever have child (most likely adopted as I refuse to bring yet another being into this world to suffer), I would teach him to think for himself and not obey blindly. Weigh the rights and wrongs of everything and decide. Not to walk straight into an abyss just because I instructed him to walk without stopping. Blind loyalty, blind obedience, blind peity and blind faith are all wrong.
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prophetjul
post Mar 14 2012, 11:36 AM


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QUOTE(athlee @ Mar 14 2012, 11:32 AM)
I am lying on what? I don't care what the bible says. If god is the creator of the serpent, than it is a child of god. God was the one who brought it into this world, if god was not the father who was? Or is the serpent something that appeared on its on accord, born from thin air?

You are again ignoring the responsibility of god as a parent to the woman and instead pushing it all onto Adam as if he was the father instead of god. Please don't contradict yourself by speaking about the father needing to teach and then excluding the daughter, assuming her husband will teach her instead.

Should I ever have child (most likely adopted as I refuse to bring yet another being into this world to suffer), I would teach him to think for himself and not obey blindly. Weigh the rights and wrongs of everything and decide. Not to walk straight into an abyss just because I instructed him to walk without stopping. Blind loyalty, blind obedience, blind peity and blind faith are all wrong.
*
IF you dont care what the bible say, why are you referencing the BIBLE???? rolleyes.gif

Since YOU DONT CARE WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS, WHY DO YOU CARE WHAT GOD SAYS? whistling.gif

Theres no contradiction to the God's intention of the man being the head of a family.......
husband to the wife
father to the children

BUT then why do you care since its from the BIBLE? biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Mar 14 2012, 11:37 AM
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rexis
post Mar 14 2012, 12:11 PM


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Sigh, where is the balance point really?

If parent take care too much, you say over protected.

If parent let go a little bit, you say they should be charged.

Has anyone being a parent here?

Men as the head of family? God's teaching? Omg, still in stone age?

The responsibility of taking care a child is shared by both mother and father.
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post Mar 14 2012, 12:14 PM


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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 14 2012, 11:36 AM)
IF you dont care what the bible say, why are you referencing the BIBLE????    rolleyes.gif

Since YOU DONT CARE WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS, WHY DO YOU CARE WHAT GOD SAYS?  whistling.gif

Theres no contradiction to the God's intention of the man being the head of a family.......
husband to the wife
father to the children

BUT then why do you care since its from the BIBLE?    biggrin.gif
*
Provide evidence for your god and your creationist myth before you peddle it as "facts".

Of course, the bible would say that. It's one of the most misogynistic books in production. Women must always obey their husbands and are nothing more than their property. Women can't voice their opinions in public.

There already is a thread for religion. Go peddle your nonsense there.
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bearbearhong
post Mar 14 2012, 12:19 PM


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QUOTE(3dassets @ Mar 13 2012, 12:31 PM)
What if the parents are idiots themselves? Whether they are rich or poor, still raise low moral no ethic children. Obviously today's problem started in the past and does the media inculcate these values? No, they concentrate on propaganda, sentiment, entertainment, drama that never provoke knowledge based society. Giving false hope to low income group saying the country is ever growing and need foreign cheap worker that suppress salary.
*
Bump into this thread, interesting topic...

agreed with you on the second part about the media..

But i think there will be separate issue, initially, it is the parents responsibility to provide basic guidances and teaching.. as basic as teaching them what is right and wrong..

well, if the parents are idiots themselves, blame the grandparents who brought the parents up tongue.gif
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thunderaj
post Mar 14 2012, 12:41 PM


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if parents hit the children for their mistake also problem . Then the parents will faced by the welfare department and police for abuse cases.

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post Mar 14 2012, 01:04 PM


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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 14 2012, 11:36 AM)
IF you dont care what the bible say, why are you referencing the BIBLE????    rolleyes.gif

Since YOU DONT CARE WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS, WHY DO YOU CARE WHAT GOD SAYS?  whistling.gif

Theres no contradiction to the God's intention of the man being the head of a family.......
husband to the wife
father to the children

BUT then why do you care since its from the BIBLE?    biggrin.gif
*
So fast you leave the issue of whether the serpent is a child of god?

You are again ignoring the responsibility god has towards the woman he created, a responsibility as the parent. Unilaterally saying that the responsibility is the husband's.

The contradiction is when you insist on saying that the father need to teach, then turn around and say that it is the responsibility of Adam as the husband (where they ever married?) to teach Eve.

QUOTE
His responsibilty to teach includes the wife.


The above conveniently ignores the responsibility of god as the parent of Eve to teach her.

As for referencing the bible, well someone brought up god in this topic and since it is talking about the responsibility of a parent, of course I will refer to the texts that allegedly came from him with regards to his parenthood.
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post Mar 14 2012, 01:28 PM


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QUOTE(rexis @ Mar 14 2012, 12:11 PM)
Has anyone being a parent here?
*
Hahaa..majority that does have children, wouldnt have the time to login to RWI and debate about the issue here. They are either busy taking care of their babies, or busy ignoring their babies....

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post Mar 14 2012, 01:58 PM


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QUOTE(megaman03 @ Mar 14 2012, 12:14 PM)
Provide evidence for your god and your creationist myth before you peddle it as "facts".

Of course, the bible would say that. It's one of the most misogynistic books in production. Women must always obey their husbands and are nothing more than their property. Women can't voice their opinions in public.

There already is a thread for religion. Go peddle your nonsense there.
*
Before yer exhibit yer judgemental rearend, look who brought this issue out in the open first.......
Husbands love your wives.........

i thought i put you on Ignoramus.....must be another nick you are hiding behind


Ah wel.......its only ab utton away biggrin.gif


Added on March 14, 2012, 2:02 pm
QUOTE(athlee @ Mar 14 2012, 01:04 PM)
So fast you leave the issue of whether the serpent is a child of god?

You are again ignoring the responsibility god has towards the woman he created, a responsibility as the parent. Unilaterally saying that the responsibility is the husband's.

The contradiction is when you insist on saying that the father need to teach, then turn around and say that it is the responsibility of Adam as the husband (where they ever married?) to teach Eve.
The above conveniently ignores the responsibility of god as the parent of Eve to teach her.

As for referencing the bible, well someone brought up god in this topic and since it is talking about the responsibility of a parent, of course I will refer to the texts that allegedly came from him with regards to his parenthood.
*
Since you already made your stand here

QUOTE
QUOTE(athlee @ Mar 14 2012, 11:32 AM)
I am lying on what? I don't care what the bible says. If god is the creator of the serpent, than it is a child of god. God was the one who brought it into this world, if god was not the father who was? Or is the serpent something that appeared on its on accord, born from thin air?


Whats there to leave or not leave.........

You can believe and discuss with yourself,
make up anyuthing for yourself AND
refer to YOURself.....

what does it matter?

Afterall

QUOTE
QUOTE(athlee @ Mar 14 2012, 11:32 AM)
I am lying on what? I don't care what the bible says. If god is the creator of the serpent, than it is a child of god. God was the one who brought it into this world, if god was not the father who was? Or is the serpent something that appeared on its on accord, born from thin air?



This post has been edited by prophetjul: Mar 14 2012, 02:02 PM
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thunderaj
post Mar 14 2012, 02:08 PM


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I think we should keep to topics rather than debating about bible and god ..
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athlee
post Mar 14 2012, 02:10 PM


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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 14 2012, 01:58 PM)
Before yer exhibit yer judgemental rearend, look who brought this issue out in the open first.......
Husbands love your wives.........

i thought i put you on Ignoramus.....must be another nick you are hiding behind
Ah wel.......its only ab utton away    biggrin.gif


Added on March 14, 2012, 2:02 pm
Since you already made your stand here
Whats there to leave or not leave.........

You can believe and discuss with yourself,
make up anyuthing for yourself AND
refer to YOURself.....

what does it matter?

Afterall
*
lol, cannot answer say so la. Ppl like you are wierd, likes to answer questions with my book says so, but when ask further, it is suddenly since you don't care what my book says, why should I answer.


thunderaj: I am sticking to topic, which is whether a parent is responsible for the child's. It is only extended to god because someone brought up god. As the so-called parent of mankind, he should also answer for his responsibilities towards his children.

This post has been edited by athlee: Mar 14 2012, 02:12 PM
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prophetjul
post Mar 14 2012, 02:16 PM


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QUOTE(athlee @ Mar 14 2012, 02:10 PM)
lol, cannot answer say so la. Ppl like you are wierd, likes to answer questions with my book says so, but when ask further, it is suddenly since you don't care what my book says, why should I answer.
*
Matey

Are you senile or what?
Suddenly?
YOU are the one who originally related to the Bible, not me.

NOW YOU are the one who said

QUOTE
QUOTE(athlee @ Mar 14 2012, 11:32 AM)
I am lying on what? I don't care what the bible says.


when asked to show where in the Bible does it mention the serpent is a child of God?

Whats to discuss, since you aren't relating to the Bible?

yawn.gif


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celicaizpower
post Mar 14 2012, 02:35 PM


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We have to broden the perspective which we are looking into as these faults does not only lies on the child and parents. It can also be from Friends, TV, Movies, Cartoon, Monkey see monkey do act and the list goes on.

Eventhough the parent have a final say on almost everything, without the child asking the parents, how will the parents know? was a saying that goes "What mother don't see won't hurt her".
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athlee
post Mar 14 2012, 03:11 PM


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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 14 2012, 02:16 PM)
Matey

Are you senile or what?
Suddenly?
YOU are the one who originally related to the Bible, not me.

NOW YOU are the one who said
when asked to show where in the Bible does it mention the serpent is a child of God?

Whats to discuss, since you aren't relating to the Bible?

yawn.gif
*
lol, I said the serpent is god's child because it is a creation of god. You say
QUOTE
Show me where the bible calls the serpent a child of God.


I didn't say your book says the serpent is a child of god. I am saying that the serpent is a child of god as it is a creation of god.

And the discussion is on the responsibility of parents. You are still not answering the question I pose to you on why is it the responsibility of Adam to teach Eve and not god. Why is Adam doing the job of Eve's dad when he is merely the husband and not the father.

But nevermind, your answer would probably the same, that I don't care what the bible says, so why ask.

Someone tell me if he ever answers my questions so I can unignore him, or better yet, just quote his post so I don't have to.
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megaman03
post Mar 14 2012, 03:58 PM


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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 14 2012, 01:58 PM)
Before yer exhibit yer judgemental rearend, look who brought this issue out in the open first.......
Husbands love your wives.........

i thought i put you on Ignoramus.....must be another nick you are hiding behind
Ah wel.......its only ab utton away    biggrin.gif
*
Of course, I'm SO judgemental fo r asking you for evidence. Forgive me, you beliefs are OBVIOUSLY correct even when there's no evidence to back it up. rolleyes.gif

You're ignoring the wrong person. You can' even have a healthy intelligent discussion. It's impossible for people of your ilk. Who cares what your ancient scribblings and fables say?
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advocado
post Mar 14 2012, 04:48 PM


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What if the child was forcefully taken away from their parents and end up as a killer? Parent's fault?

Blame the government.

QUOTE(soundsyst64 @ Mar 14 2012, 10:57 AM)
Reality in malaysia;

when child do wrongdoings, parents blame other person
*
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positive energy
post Mar 14 2012, 05:40 PM


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QUOTE(athlee @ Mar 14 2012, 09:35 AM)
I like this argument but think it should be expanded further. god create mankind and thus should be the one who raise, educate them until 18 years old. When has god done the above? He gave mankind the ability to reproduce but he did not teach them how to raise and educate. He did not not find time to accompany his own children. All he did was find a few fellas, appoint them as teachers and left them to their own devices. So so irresponsible. He didn't even make sure everyone had a teacher, leaving so many heathers lying around.
Found in the bible, an example of god not being a good parent:
Why did he not educate his two kids on what will happen if they eat the apple instead of just saying, stay away?

Try putting a toy on a shelf and tell your younger kid don't touch and then leave it there indefinitely. Rope in your older kid and get him to tell the younger brother that the toy is fun to play with.
*
I'm not as religious as you referring to the bible's story. In the case you mentioned, If i were the parents,i'll teach them how to play their toys responsibly, and put back in the usual place after playing.

I believe parents were supposed to be the one who educate them about IQ- how to differentiate bad and good , EQ - How to socialize with people around ,Financial Quotient (FQ)- financially independent after 18 .
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post Mar 14 2012, 08:04 PM


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QUOTE(soundsyst64 @ Mar 14 2012, 10:57 AM)
Reality in malaysia;

when child do wrongdoings, parents blame other person
Not quite. Reality in Malaysia: when bad things happen, everyone looks for someone to blame.


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A.B.D.
post Mar 16 2012, 01:07 AM


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children start life as a blank sheet of paper, really depend on parents for guidance. if a small kid run around and went straight into traffic and died, it is really not his fault. he just born into this world not many years ago. but if his parents consistently teach him to stay close, not to run around uncontrollably and beat him as punishment the outcome will be different.

if an adult lived life for 21 years, completed school, will know right from wrong regardless parents good or bad. if do wrong must bear consequences in full, it is no longer parents fault. many adults do bad things is influenced by bad hats and they choose their bad hat friends even if parents object.
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post Mar 16 2012, 03:24 AM


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QUOTE(athlee @ Mar 14 2012, 09:35 AM)
Found in the bible, an example of god not being a good parent:
Why did he not educate his two kids on what will happen if they eat the apple instead of just saying, stay away?
That's QC. Think of a (computer) chip factory. After it's made, it goes through some tests. Those that fails get chucked out ... smile.gif


Added on March 16, 2012, 3:27 am
QUOTE(A.B.D. @ Mar 16 2012, 01:07 AM)
children start life as a blank sheet of paper, really depend on parents for guidance. if a small kid run around and went straight into traffic and died, it is really not his fault. he just born into this world not many years ago. but if his parents consistently teach him to stay close, not to run around uncontrollably and beat him as punishment the outcome will be different.
This will come back to haunt you in 20 years, when the climate changes, and you'll be accused as child abuser for even suggesting that. The Internet never forgets anything! At least you didn't use your real name. smile.gif

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bearbearhong
post Mar 16 2012, 10:40 AM


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QUOTE(thunderaj @ Mar 14 2012, 02:08 PM)
I think we should keep to topics rather than debating about bible and god ..
*
+1, sometimes, ppl arguing because of pride


Added on March 16, 2012, 10:43 am
QUOTE(positive energy @ Mar 14 2012, 05:40 PM)
I'm not as religious as you referring to the bible's story. In the case you mentioned, If i were the parents,i'll teach them how to play their toys responsibly, and put back in the usual place after playing.

I believe parents were supposed to be the one who educate them about IQ- how to differentiate bad and good , EQ - How to socialize with people around ,Financial Quotient (FQ)- financially independent after 18 .
*
agreed with u! parents's responsibility is as general as 1,2,3...teach the right things!


Added on March 16, 2012, 10:49 am
QUOTE(A.B.D. @ Mar 16 2012, 01:07 AM)
children start life as a blank sheet of paper, really depend on parents for guidance. if a small kid run around and went straight into traffic and died, it is really not his fault. he just born into this world not many years ago. but if his parents consistently teach him to stay close, not to run around uncontrollably and beat him as punishment the outcome will be different.

if an adult lived life for 21 years, completed school, will know right from wrong regardless parents good or bad. if do wrong must bear consequences in full, it is no longer parents fault. many adults do bad things is influenced by bad hats and they choose their bad hat friends even if parents object.
*
nowadays, most of us as parents, are able to afford better lives for our little one. I have seen some parents, who only care about the outlook of their child, and their enjoyment..but not about their mentality, morale & manners..

for eg, a mother who keep on showering a child with expensive & branded goods, indirectly boosting the child to materialistic, and how is the child going to appreciate little things happened in his life? come on, say a 3 years old kid possessed a ipad as his toy, what will he be looking at when he reach 12, 21 etc?? things come too easy, they dun appreciate it!

This post has been edited by bearbearhong: Mar 16 2012, 10:49 AM
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post Mar 27 2012, 12:42 PM


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QUOTE(athlee @ Mar 13 2012, 11:29 AM)
Did the parents spend time with the child, provide education, teaching him to respect other people? Did they love him and made time for him? If they did, then no it isn't the parents fault.

But if the parents just provided for the child without caring or even if they love the child but don't spend time with the child to show him love and provide education, then how can you blame a child who knows nothing. If the parents are nonexistent in his life (latchkey kids) then the only education he gets are from those around him. The messages will be mixed, there will be nothing concrete, how is he to know what is right, what is not?

Chinese saying, 养不教,父之过;教不严,师之惰
*
just saw this topic and would like to share my point of view , not intending to offend anyone, if anyone feels so, please accept my apology

i strongly agree with 'the child which we give birth to does not come with a manual' (dunno whose quote is that)

parents(P) AND Family & friends (F) AND Environment they grow up (Env) AND Exposure (Exp) AND Education (Under Exp too)AND government policy (GP) are the factors i guess.

parents of the child
they cant be blamed wholly if they themselves are not taught by their parents (P) (they are also affected by the above factors),

influenced by F, (including having problem with spouse, which also affected by the above factors, FnF too) Env, Exp

not receiving proper Edu, teachers are also affected by the above factors

because they have to work for $ and dont have time or cant make time for their kids , y? bcoz our gov policy for staff welfare is not good enough and a lot crazy demanding bosses here (bosses are also human, so..no need me repeat again la)

in fact, almost everyone is affected by these factors and affect others and the cycle goes on and on.

so what should be done? those ppl who think they are so good and could change the fate of other ppl's children, they set up tuition centre, brain training centre, society for welfare, organise pre-marriage/natal courses. it's up to the parents or guardians whether to send their children for 'maintenance' , 'reset something' or 'system improvement' , that's the term i can think of if you are hoping this world or country to be that ideal or perfect (which does not apply to human and only to robotic stuff) and i dont want to make myself sound like a mom as i am not yet one.

always 'set' good example, 'install antivirus system' and take care of the hardware and software too. rmb that 'fancy accessories' are not that important compared to the attention parents should give. choose the right software and programme. some cartoons and comic books are really not meant for kids, start to teach from young, you might install something directly,indirectly in your child with o without your knowledge or remove some softwares over time, but it takes a lot to totally delete memories (good or bad) permanently or reformat your child. we are human, after all.

i like this one : listen when commented, change when proven wrong (rough translation of 说又不听,听又不做,做又做错,错又不改,改又不好。。。dont remember^^)

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post Mar 27 2012, 02:10 PM


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QUOTE(bearbearhong @ Mar 16 2012, 10:40 AM)
+1, sometimes, ppl arguing because of pride


Added on March 16, 2012, 10:43 am
agreed with u! parents's responsibility is as general as 1,2,3...teach the right things!


Added on March 16, 2012, 10:49 am
nowadays, most of us as parents, are able to afford better lives for our little one. I have seen some parents, who only care about the outlook of their child, and their enjoyment..but not about their mentality, morale & manners..

for eg, a mother who keep on showering a child with expensive & branded goods, indirectly boosting the child to materialistic, and how is the child going to appreciate little things happened in his life? come on, say a 3 years old kid possessed a ipad as his toy, what will he be looking at when he reach 12, 21 etc?? things come too easy, they dun appreciate it!
*
Yep, sadly this is what happens most of the time. For my son, now i start a "star collection system".....good behaviour, did his work, kept his stuff (don't lose it....bad habit not taking care of his stuff)...earns him a star/stamp in a book. Collect enough stars, and you can redeem your reward...like BonusLink...LOL.
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iceypain
post Mar 27 2012, 02:38 PM


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I don't think you can make blanket statements like that, it depends on what went wrong. Parents probably have the largest influence on a child's behavior but there are other factors beyond their control also. Putting the blame solely on the parents is a slippery slope; with that logic technically all blame is on the first human ever to exist.
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bearbearhong
post Mar 28 2012, 10:32 AM


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QUOTE(Matrix @ Mar 27 2012, 02:10 PM)
Yep, sadly this is what happens most of the time. For my son, now i start a "star collection system".....good behaviour, did his work, kept his stuff (don't lose it....bad habit not taking care of his stuff)...earns him a star/stamp in a book. Collect enough stars, and you can redeem your reward...like BonusLink...LOL.
*
haha...what a brilliant idea thumbup.gif , how old is ur son?


Added on March 28, 2012, 10:35 am
QUOTE(iceypain @ Mar 27 2012, 02:38 PM)
I don't think you can make blanket statements like that, it depends on what went wrong. Parents probably have the largest influence on a child's behavior but there are other factors beyond their control also. Putting the blame solely on the parents is a slippery slope; with that logic technically all blame is on the first human ever to exist.
*
we are not putting the blame but stress on the importance of parents to mould and guide their children at younger age, just like during construction of a building, the most essential part- piling, if the foundation is bad, surely it will give negative impact...

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post Mar 28 2012, 11:15 AM


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At least one of our Minister has agreed and stand by it, that parents should not be responsible for their childrens' mistake.

Taken from Malaysia Chronicles : http://www.malaysia-chronicle.com/index.ph...bility&Itemid=2

Excerpt :
QUOTE
Minister in the Prime Minister's Department Nazri Aziz shocked the nation when he said he could not be "responsible" for the actions of his recalcitrant son, who has been at the centre of two assault cases, one of which had resulted in the death of a 23-year-old law student.
......
......
......
“I cannot be responsible for his actions. It has nothing to do with me."


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thunderaj
post Mar 28 2012, 12:20 PM


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QUOTE(iceypain @ Mar 27 2012, 02:38 PM)
I don't think you can make blanket statements like that, it depends on what went wrong. Parents probably have the largest influence on a child's behavior but there are other factors beyond their control also. Putting the blame solely on the parents is a slippery slope; with that logic technically all blame is on the first human ever to exist.
*
I agree with your comment .there are also other people should be blame for the children mistake such teachers, friends and siblings and media.
raising a children is not easy compare to 10 or 20 years ago.

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advocado
post Mar 28 2012, 02:03 PM


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I believe a child inherits the traits of their biological parents. Even if it comes down to character & temper.

Just like parents who drink & smoke are more likely to adopt smoking & drinking even if they are brought up in a non smoking/drinking family.


QUOTE(A.B.D. @ Mar 16 2012, 01:07 AM)
children start life as a blank sheet of paper, really depend on parents for guidance. if a small kid run around and went straight into traffic and died, it is really not his fault. he just born into this world not many years ago. but if his parents consistently teach him to stay close, not to run around uncontrollably and beat him as punishment the outcome will be different.

if an adult lived life for 21 years, completed school, will know right from wrong regardless parents good or bad. if do wrong must bear consequences in full, it is no longer parents fault. many adults do bad things is influenced by bad hats and they choose their bad hat friends even if parents object.
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